KymcoForum.com
General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: sidthesloth on March 05, 2010, 04:22:24 AM
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G'Day All, I bought a race variator from an ebay seller and when I tried to fit it, it would not fit (it was jamming on the crankcase). Does anyone know if Kymco changed the crankcase or do I have an odd situation. I have included a photo of the two variators so you can see the difference. ???(http://)
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It's hard to really tell how much bigger it is from the pic. Is it hitting around the edges or bottoming against the back? I'm not sure if they changed crankcase size, but I doubt it. I hate to say it, but that is really the risk you take buying stuff on ebay. The other problem you run into is compatibility between different parts from different manufacturers. With cvt parts, you may end up with different angles pulley faces or differences between variator and clutch parts which will lead to a need for a different belt, or premature/excessive belt wear. I would definitely recommend using all cvt parts from the same manufacturer and using their recommended belt for your application. I'm a big fan of Malossi parts personally! I don't really think their cvt parts can be beat! They are a bit pricey, but that's the price you have to pay for stuff that just plain works! I would try and contact the ebay seller and see what they have to say. Possibly see if you can return the variator. Then check out http://www.malossiusaonline.com (http://www.malossiusaonline.com).
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G'Day shaka, thanks for the reply, my existing variator is 83.5mm and the new one is 87.6mm, if you look at the photo you will see a thin line around the back edge where it was touching on the crankcase. I know buying from ebay does have it's risks but as long as you are prepared to accept this I think you can get some good buys, (and possibly some bad ones as well). I think in this case I will have to try to save some dough and try Malossi. It is all good fun and learning as you go, by the way, the seller has offered a refund, so no dramas there. Just curiousl, does your variator look like the one on the bottom of the photo? the rollers in mine were 15.5mm and the book says should be 13. maybe I have a freak????
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Hey Sid, With an over range var you HAVE to do some minor modding of the case. Mind you not all vars. will fit all cases but if it is hitting one of the webs, you can use a die grinder to remove some material, or even a dremel tool will do. You will only need 1mm clearance,
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Hi zombie, I didnt want to grind the casing as I dont know how thick it is. could lead to a whole lot of trouble.
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Sid, My stock variator looks almost exactly the same as yours. I see the small line you were talking about where it was hitting. It looks like the new one is just not machined down around the inside edge like the stock one is. Are those measurements you gave for the inside, or the outside face? What is the difference on the inside where it is hitting? From my understanding you can grind quite a bit off the inside of the case without too much worry. The larger variator will also give you a higher top speed, so it may be worthwhile! You may need a slightly longer belt to be able to run all the way to the top though. I understand if you don't want to do any grinding, I would be hesitant myself! I personally just went with a Malossi Multivar and belt. The Multivar also comes with the white contra spring. If you would like I can look for the correct part # for you. I'm not exactly sure how much one costs, i got an insane deal on mine!
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I understand what you're saying!. My thought is, If it's only webs that need finishing then I would HAVE to go for it. Already got the part, and all... Shaka's right about committing to a proven set up at least until you get to know what you need. Can you give us a link to what you have? It may help all the way along the road. (pun)
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G'day, the variator itself is no bigger, it just doesn't taper at the back like the original one. It touches on the crankcase by the starter motor lay shaft. Yeah, if it was only webs I would grind it, but I think it best to wait and see what I can get a bit further down the road. I do have a cylinder kit coming, just a mater of being patient.
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Well, I bit the bullet and did the grind this morning. The new variator is now on and I thought, why didn't I do this earlier. There wasn't much to grind of, just a shave off the surface really. I dont know that it is much faster but power delivery is so much smoother that it feels like it may be a little faster, (wishfull thinking?). Well worth the effort, which was minimal any way. I guess I was worried about grinding the case. 8)
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There ya go mate...No worries! Some of the tuning process may seem scary at first, but as you tackle tougher jobs, the fear just vanishes. It just makes me feel all warm inside...
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Yeah, once done there is no looking back.:-)
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G'Day, I finally got to post the link for the variator, it is
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370358745354&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370358745354&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT) I hope that works. I have ordered some clutch fly springs that are apparently rated at 1.5k, Iam assuming that is the expected engagement speed, could anyone tell me the original setting for this with the zx50 please. As the weights are easier to change than the torque spring I will try some 7 gram rollers (the ones with the variator are 8.5).
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I think the "k" rating refers to the rpm's at the clutch, and not at the engine. All these shops have different ratings, but I found the mid size springs from most of them to work the best. I also have 5.5gr Malossi rollers in my set up. I tried 7's when I first set this scoot up, and did not get into the power band on the pipe. The whole idea of the rollers is to tune to the desired running rpm's. I believe I top out around 11'500-12'000. 3'500 is where i BARELY roll, and 7-8'000 is where the clutch really locks up. Bad for fuel economy, but great for riding. With your kit being slightly larger I think 6ish would get you on it. But it all depends on where your kit makes it's peak power. Mine comes in around 9'000, I couldn't guess yours. The rollers will be trial, and error just like the jets. The factory springs I assume come in around 800 at the clutch.
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Thanks zombie, I realise it is the clutch speed given that the idle speed is 2000. the rollers are 8.5, trying 7 will give me a bit of an idea. Hopefully it will be a bit more fun than the jet tuning. I think the jet is pretty close now, I raised the needle to the second notch the other day and it seems pretty good. Last night I went through all my plugs and found one that lines up pretty close and guess what, that detonation noise is completely gone but unfortunately I think the plug is sus as it is not as smooth running at speed. I do have another one I put an aluminium washer on that also comes in pretty close. The missus rode the scooter the other day and reckons "we have turned a mild mannered scooter into a blood thirsty beast". She likes it.
(edited due to bad spelling, damn those mobile phones).
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That's super cool to hear dude! I think w/ a little off the head you will be amazed at the difference. Indexing the plug put the flame front in the right direction, and the shave will boost the charge from that. Be aware the pre ign is JUST AROUND THE CORNER until you do the head. I'm real happy to hear the mrs. likes it. Mine hated me fooling w/ the scoots. That's why (partly) she's not here, and the scooters are! The roller tuning is MUCH easier than jetting because there are NO variables. No indexing, or needle hight, just straight up results. You will have extra rollers when you are done, but I found w/ the good results you are getting others around you will start getting into scootin' and you will have a head start on stock for setting them up. That's no joke. I have to order parts for myself to replace what I sell to some of the OLD DUDES riding their Puch's, and Vespa's around town. If you get a little bored on nite maybe you could post up a little recipe of the set-up, and results. Just to sorta consolidate all the facts so it is easy to follow for someone else looking to build a "Blood Thirsty Beast" Or is that Fuel Thirsty. Stock I did almost 50miles to a tank. Now I'm under 20. I sure do wish all us zx'ers were local. Imagine the Hell that could be raised...
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Cheers zombie, I will do that with a list of what we did and what happened. With my overheating and seizing the engine I am of the opinion that the exhaust was the main culprit after having added the extra oil, do you think I am right on this?
Stock I was getting 116 kms per tank with a best of 127 (I thought I was walking home that day). On Saturday I filled up at only 58kms but that was not quite empty, yesterday was 110 so it is not as bad as it could be. Yeah I look forward to the roller tuning, I don't know about the clutch torque spring as that will affect the rollers. Time to learn more. Tomorrow, I will get those plugs I was supposed to get last week and do some chops.
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I agree it was mostly the exhaust w/out the correct jet. An expansion chamber will pull the mix right out of the jug. That is the nature of that beast. You Da man Sid!
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I will get to work this afternoon and write up an overview of what we have done, which section would be best to post in?
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ZX/50 sounds good to me! Thats actually a fairly new section thanks to yajblackburn. Haven't heard from him lately. He helped me alot in the begining...
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Cheers mate, I will start on it now, should have it posted soon. Just have to remember the sequence.
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Asked scooter assassins if they had sliders for the variator I bought from them and they said the ones they tested wore out the plastic and broke in about a month. At least they test them before they try to sell them.
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Stick with the Dr. Pulley Sliders! I've heard bad things about knock-offs! The Dr. Pulleys will work in any variator just the same.
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There is a press release from Dr. Pulley Slaming MRP, and some others for selling Knock Off sliders. There IS a difference. http://www.rhinoforums.net/general-rhino-discussion/42548-official-announcement-dr-pulley-taiwan.html (http://www.rhinoforums.net/general-rhino-discussion/42548-official-announcement-dr-pulley-taiwan.html)
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Funny, I read that press release right after posting that! :)
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Found it on Invasion.
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Me too! ;) I did watch one of the videos where they were testing the slider. Pretty cool!
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G'day Shaka, since you are using Dr. Pulley sliders, I was wondering if you would like to take a look at these and see if they are the real deal?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Dr-Pulley-SR1613-sliding-rollers-50cc-GY6-4-stroke-/120552889318?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c11831be6 (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Dr-Pulley-SR1613-sliding-rollers-50cc-GY6-4-stroke-/120552889318?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c11831be6)
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Looks like the real deal to me! Looks like a pretty good price as well! They only have 3, 4, 5, & 6g ones though!.
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There was one from taiwan, price was better and they had a larger range. Will try to find a link to it tonight.
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Thanks for that Shaka, if it was left to me I would have bought the knock offs and been none the wiser, which is what they want of course. I couldn't find the other ones I was looking at last night but this bloke offered them for $28.00 + $6.00 postage so I accepted that. Hope they turn out to be the correct item. Having used the cheap rollers I think either 6 or 7 grams gave me the best compromise, 5 grams were to light. :)
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Sounds good Sid! I think you will like them!
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Hey, if not, I still have a stack of cheap rollers to chew up.
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so how does that ebay variator stack up againsty the high dollar ones? my engine is stock and i was thinking about getting the same race variator off ebay. if im only looking for more top end will this help?
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I dont think so, the ramp plate is modified to improve pick up, I doubt it would increase top end. I do like it though.
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thanks. i'm trying to squeeze every bit i can out of it without going 70cc.
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thanks. i'm trying to squeeze every bit i can out of it without going 70cc.
...it's "squish"...not "squeeze"...
..hey...I'M TALKING TWO-STROKE LANGUAGE!!!
;D
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Hang around the apple tree long enough, and you turn into an egg, or something like that...
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..yeah...i'd like a 2-stroker to learn on...even a sh**ty one....
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Where do you live EXACTLY!!!
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...you stalkin me??
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y
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..i know...
...you got me a project......
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Yeah!
Sit in front of the window w/ the Bulls-eye T shirt you got for Xmas
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Yeah!
Sit in front of the window w/ the Bulls-eye T shirt you got for Xmas
...okaayy...
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All Love My Brothers, and sisters! Slinger is getting tooo close to the 500 spot!
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Slinger is getting tooo close to the 500 spot!
..reckon i still don't get it..................
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First one to 3g's. I'm spotting you 500. I would just burn up a shiny new system anyway.
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...see, i'm just gettin back in from that same scenario...
..i feel your pain...
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I dont think so, the ramp plate is modified to improve pick up, I doubt it would increase top end. I do like it though.
hey sid, did you ever check to see the weight on your var? it looks like black solid steel, instead of the regular aluminum!!! could that heavy ass thing be an issue??
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Nah mate, I have no idea how heavy it is, never thought about weighing it, just put it on and rode, since putting in the sliders it is back to good again.
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you never even noticed if it was steel or aluminum?????? dont really know how MY scoot would react to steel var. i found another var that someone here used but i dont guess that guy is around to ask about that one, it is aluminum.. he helped zombie i read
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Yajblackburn I think...
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..yeah...i'd like a 2-stroker to learn on...even a sh**ty one....
i've been playing with gy6's. rebuilt my first one. its not as bad as i thought. i wanna go inside my 2 stroke but im sooooo afraid. y mess with a good thing
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..i'll be upgrading my a50 in the near future...
..wish me luck... ;D
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i've been playing with gy6's. rebuilt my first one. its not as bad as i thought. i wanna go inside my 2 stroke but im sooooo afraid. y mess with a good thing
The two strokes are easy! I'm more afraid to tear into a 4 stroke! All those extra parts! :o The most important thing when working on two strokes is doing a leak-down test after re-assembly! I don't know how many times mine has saved my motor! ;)
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..you made a leak-down tester, didn u shaka??
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The two strokes are easy! I'm more afraid to tear into a 4 stroke! All those extra parts! :o The most important thing when working on two strokes is doing a leak-down test after re-assembly! I don't know how many times mine has saved my motor! ;)
had no idea what i was doing and its still running. its just timing marks and valves. not at all bad. only thing extra i needed was a starter clutch remover tool and a steering wheel puller and a hammer if u wanna risk it for the kick starter gear
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its just timing marks and valves. not at all bad.
...coool..i'm familiar with all that....
..what did you do to your 4-stroke dre?
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..you made a leak-down tester, didn u shaka??
Sure did! Still don't know about those 4T's though! ::)
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...one of these days. i'll ask you how to use that....
..Still don't know about those 4T's though!
..i'm fixin' to learn a lot more than i now know...
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...one of these days. i'll ask you how to use that....
..Still don't know about those 4T's though!
..i'm fixin' to learn a lot more than i now know...
Anytime! It's quite easy actually! You remove the exhaust and put the block-off plate over it to seal it up. Then remove the carb from the manifold and attach the adapter plate with the fitting. Then you pressurize the engine to 6 psi which it must hold for at least 6 min.
It sounds like I'm fixing to learn a lot more about 4T's too! ;)
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..yeah, imma preach it brother!!
Then you pressurize the engine to 6 psi which it must hold for at least 6 min.
..that's easy enough, and a logical step...
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its just timing marks and valves. not at all bad.
...coool..i'm familiar with all that....
..what did you do to your 4-stroke dre?
i bought a non running 150 gy6, all it needed was a stator, not having a flywheel puller i ruined the threads in the crank, i had another engine from a gy6 i had years ago that the muffler fell off and i kept ridin til it quit. so i took the crank from the one and put it in the other one. it ran great but not knowing about the catch can that's needed on some i thought i had 2 much oil in it. locked it up. so then i took the cylinder and piston from the second engine and put it on. got a oil catch this time. runs great! all the trouble i had. with them and as many gy6 scooters as i've had i think i pretty much have the simple stuff down. I STILL RIDE MY 2T THO!!!!!!!
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..you made a leak-down tester, didn u shaka??
i know nothing about leak down testers...... didn't even know you need one. this is y i will not open the engine on my kymco!! and i wanna go 70cc so bad but its the best running scooter i've had
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i will not open the engine on my kymco!! and i wanna go 70cc so bad but its the best running scooter i've had
..Exactly...I'm not gonna open it up until i have to....might want to but, dang...it just runs so well......
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Just a small update, this morning I changed the torque spring, I don't know if it was the original one in there, it was red in colour as was the spring I put in. With the 1000rpm spring it has made a difference
but it is no longer reaching top speed so I will need to change rollers again. I am currently running 6 gram Dr. Pulley sliders but I do also have 7 gram and 8.5 gram rollers. I think the 1000 torque spring complements the 1500 fly springs.
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You can fill the sliders w/ solder to up the weight, and drill out each end to adjust. I would hate to see good $'s put on a shelf
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It's no big drama zombie, they weren't in the "break the bank" range, I will try the 7s and if no good will try the 8.5s and see which one is the best and buy the sliders to suit, $28 + postage is affordable and I will have some good spares. I didn't get to pull the jug today, will do that when I get a chance in the next day or two. Running with the new spring has also shown that the engine is still lacking so when I do pull the jug I will also remove a base gasket and see if that gets me any more power, Just a little more experimenting. I have also thought about going with a larger carb, maybe a 28mm but that is more expense so will be a little way down the track. :)
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The 28mm works great for me although 1 tank of fuel gets me about 28 miles=?km
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Oh well, "want the economy, don't do the mods". I will see how I go with the jug adjustment, but as I said before I think the exhaust might be my restriction as well.
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although 1 tank of fuel gets me about 28 miles
..i stop for fuel AT LEAST every other day...sometimes every day...
..i scoot a lot....
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Well, I bit the bullet and did the grind this morning. The new variator is now on and I thought, why didn't I do this earlier. There wasn't much to grind of, just a shave off the surface really. I dont know that it is much faster but power delivery is so much smoother that it feels like it may be a little faster, (wishfull thinking?). Well worth the effort, which was minimal any way. I guess I was worried about grinding the case. 8)
hey sid.....i installed the same var on my zx. did the grind, not much, did free spin...i took off and it actually hit and locked my motor(thankfully i was stopped for gas) i did grind a hair more off... have you happened to experiance this??? guess the heat made it expand?? gotta play with the rollers again.. seems alot smoother, couldnt really tell the "shift points".. can you or will it stay THAT smooth???
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G'day batman, no, once it was on it was cool, I must havd ground a bit more off. The smoothness did wear off but I didn't notice until I put my sliders in. Do you think you take off a little bit better?
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hey sid, thanks for he reply.... it does seem to be a touch better... i would know more if i could figure out the tune i need/want. it changed a bit more when i put it in i think...
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Hey, on a side note , have a look at Magordon's thread in I think it is super 8 section, he has found a site that has the keihin jets and I reckon the one for the ZX50 is the 1001-806. If you are looking for Keihin jets, he has found the goldmine.
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hell yeah, thanks..i will go try and find that for sure........ oh yeah, when i installed mine i happened to think and paint markered the var to see how far the belt rode.. it goes completely to the edge now vs. the oem.(it still needed around 2mm). which i guess thats a better thing...lol
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A correction, his thread is slow acceleration in the super 9 section.
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hey sid, gotta ? for you......on this var...did you notice a slow down because of the added wieght over the oem one..(its aluminum but is heavier than oem)....or is my cvt just that far out of whack.......she seemed to take a mile of straight before she was up to speed good......just top, really no low or mid...
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No, I didn't notice that. It was a lot smoother, but my old one was on about 14,000 kms. When I put that variator on I already had the 82cc kit on so that might have had the torque to compensate. If you are taking too long to get up to speed maybe try lighter weights.
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hey, thanks sid....i will take the cover off tomorrow to make sure its not dragging on the case..i been trying to set it lately but this var seems to have just abslolutely thrown it off...lmao...... was suggested i try 1500 contra-9rollers.. i used to get a real high rev at take off, not now..hmm???, want to get it close at least so i can hit next project ;D guess ill look for 9s and try for sh**s and giggles...do have 8.5...i am wondering if the 1000 just wont cut it now with this var....
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think a 1500 would be too much for a 50, I am using a 1000 on my 82cc, the 1500 fly springs are good.
When I took out the 8.5 rollers and put in the 7s I noticed a big improvement, that was with the stock torque spring. Now with the 1000 torqu spring I am running 6 gram sliders but will need to go back up to possibly 7 or maybe 8. I haven't done anything with the scoot lately, have been tied up with the car, a bit of a story in that one.
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...that 1500 is a tough spring...
..verging on a race setup....
..ain't seen many here that could run one...
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i have ran the 1500 contra before when i had the oem var...it gives a bit more top actually, slowed take off some....shaka suggested the 1500/9g set up...8s came with the var, have 7.5 today, felt tug, slow take off, hit "3rd" softly and quickly.. i liked the 7.5 with oem hit mid hard,even tho slower takeoff,hit quickly, this var is diff....
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Yeah, you go too heavy on the torque spring, then you need heavier rollers to compensate, you are getting to a point where you are fighting yourself, if you are getting belt slippage the you would need to go that way, but otherwise you would be better off to keep things as light and free as possible.
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A heavier torque spring would reduce the top unless you have heavier rollers to compensate, going from stock to 1000 I have noticed a smll drop in top speed, at the speeds we talk of here, small is still significant. Hey, no speeding fines.... yet. ;)
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yeah, i cant seem to find any honey hole cause the 7s take away top, 7.5 gave it back but now this var is getting me..lmao
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What torque spring are you running now?
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currently have the 1000 w/2000? fly springs(took away tug) and 7.5 rollers..this var changed it some, didnt like the 8s w/this var.
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...dump the 2000 flys...go with 1000s, maybe 1500s.......
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well....i am assuming they are 2000..green adige(came with clutch)(havent installed the motorio clutch)..those flys did seem to get rid of that belt tug i had before i installed this var..i had some ncy 1500 in before...thats where an issue comes up with my malossi flys(look different).. i do have some 1500 and 2000? flys.(havent opened the malossi if i need to send back)
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Can you try the stock torque spring to see where you are with the variator? I don't understand about this belt tug caper, surely you're not getting enough power to slip the belt?
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hey sid, well yeah, i do still have the stock spring.....shaka and sid both were experiancing "belt tug", just at the initial takeoff, you feel a tug or two for a second, then she is gone...
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Sounds like your running in the same circle I am.So far went back to the stock belt getting some slip at take off with the 9g and mid still sluggish,next back to carb tuneing found by leaning out the needle a little helped the mid alot,I didn't notice the mistuned carb till i put the race clutch , veriater and more wheight,Its still not right but i'm one step closer waiting for my 9.5 rollers to show,Then back to springs and things might put the stock contra back in to see how it goes.So my thoughts are I was not making enouph power to carry me through the mid at the right time once it caught up I had this crazy hit in the 40 + range and then would top out before i could hit the 60 range.I'm sure this will confuse you more but mayby play with that carb a bit more :D ???
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well art, i believe you ARE trying to confuse me......lmao.... the carb??, it is lean already,BUT next was a cockhair big, remember?...... anyway, i tried the stock contra w/new var,w/7.5s..seems to get some rpm back at takeoff but she was slow, if you gave a foot push that helped it..kindof like it wanted to go before high enough rpm to launch/grab...trys to grab to soon.....this var is gonna wierd me out...lmao..
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What fly springs?
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Hay bat not the main jet it was the needle at the bottem of the slide,this affects your1/8 throttle to 1/2 throttle before the main kicks in. I was to rich there so not making the power needed to spin the cvt at the right time to keep up with the rest of the motor.I know that sounds more confusing Ha!Check out words look out world I got a new toy!Ya want some real fun the dr.slidder race clutch has 6 springs to help advance and then lock the clutch at a certain rpm :o
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Yes, the problem is I am running an 82cc cyl. kit and a 24mm carb so what works for me may not work for you. We just have to persevere until we find what does work.
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Hay bat the 7g you lose top,did you try a 6.5 for the hell of it if that is even worse.You could try 3 7.0g and 3 7.5g to get to around 7.25 for a short time will do no harm,now that you can change out a veriater in 2 min flat might be your best option,did you get a roller weight tuning set.I have one that go's from 3g to 8g doesnt help me much any more on my hot rod,cost about $20
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good morning sid....art.... yeah sid, thats what im wondering, since i am virtually stock the added weight of the var is throwing me off????.....ahhh sh**, gonna try and play around with a few setups to TRY and find a good spot...with my 230lb ass i may have to settle with a slow takeoff........lmao... what up art, my needle isnt adjustable...the manual says 2 different setting at diff points but looking at it, it doesnt have any
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oh yeah, no i never got a roller tunning kit....just been getting a set at a time...thought id be staying wit 7,7.5...lmao see what i get for thinking..rlmao......
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Have you tried 6g rollers?
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ya that tunner kit is the way to go and cheap.Try that 7.25.For me to get a feel for things I went 3 sizes higher and lower to get a better understanding,can't say it helped alot,still not dialed in,but iknow what too light or heavy feels like
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..roller tuning kits are th' bomb...
..one time expense for many, many tuning episodes....
..thanx Areomyst!
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where did you get yours?? i seen a few today, buuuut.,(thinking some are 3 roller set tho)...... i did try equiv. to 6.5 wit stock spring, seem a bit better at take off, good on flats, worried about all the dam mtns. around here tho. still drops a bit on hills(many around here).. i also tried 8.5 w/1500 main and flys, seems fairly good also, hills better, top seems ok, may need 9s like shaka suggested.....imagine that...lmao...(nobody around here has any either)...
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..9 grms ran well in my ppl....
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got a ? about those roller tunning kits...... i looked at several diff ones but they ALL look like they are for thhe 3 roller setups....saw like a 3-9g 18pk...thats only 3 a set...same wit 9-14g...even saw a dr pulley roller kit but looks like a 3 deal... am i missing something..(like those prices vs. the $17 a pop..lmao)
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..i have two sets..each are 6 roller setups...
..they're around 30 bucks a piece...
..between the two, they range from 4-9 grams...
..don't recall what brand, but when I get home i'll check that out and let you know...
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"http://www.stage6.fr/catalog/stage6-04-variator-24-0.html"
..these are what i have....the set on top and the one to the lower right..
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I wouldnt use the 3 roller ones because the collective weight is less than with 6. I used cheap ones from scooter assassins to work out what weight I wanted. But then I changed the torque spring, now I need heavier sliders.:)
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http://www.provoscooter.com/ruima-variator-roller-tuning-kit-16x13mm.html (http://www.provoscooter.com/ruima-variator-roller-tuning-kit-16x13mm.html) .I'm in the same boat sid but these are the ones I used.
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sweet, cool beans thanks dudes...i did look at provo and those looked like the 3rollers...maybe im just blind, cant see sh** wit this phone...... ok this var is starting to get on my nerves....im thinking this extra weight is throwing me off....rode wit the 8.5/1500s today....takes a long time to get in the power band,(if in it, runs great), from take off..up to 30 is SLOW(bit humid here today)..maybe i will HAVE to go light as hell to compensate for the extra weight??? any ideas now????....lmao
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once again did you try 3 7g and 3 7.5g I think that was going to be your spot???
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Dont use different weights, the 3 7.5s will work the variator and the other 3 will just rattle around. 8.5 is too heavy, try somewherde around 5 or 6, especially if you are on the stock torque spring. If the variator is too heavy you will need less weight somewhere. Remember, heavy weights close the variator quicker.
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Hey sid it will work fine for tuneing not suggested for a daily rider,worked great for my tune process till i outgrew my test kit ;D It let me know what wieght to perchase or in our cases modify to.No ill affects will flatten them rollers quik if run to long.
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...yup, that's the point of the different weights of the variator tuning kits..
..so you can really dial it in.....
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Nope, I still don't get it, if you try 3x7s and 3x7.5s, which ones do you use if that configuration works?
I have yet to see rollers in the 0.25 gram range and if they were out there, how accurate would they be?
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..yea, but i run 4.7 grams in my a50...with the stock drive face, ncy variator (malossi was better)
..it llloves them......
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you can mod the weights if it comes down to it,you will need scales and a dremmel for light changes or if your lucky the right drill bit can shave the perfect amount off,my bro in laws people after some mods we did ran best with a 7.30g set .He just happened to have a bit that allowed us to drill the centers out a little bit and wieghed each one and were with in .001 of each other not bad in the back yard with a hand drill acouple of beers and what the hell attitude the 7.5 wer'nt working any way.Try it ya'll like it Ha!
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..i quarter gram does make a difference....
...just as a mm difference in the drive face or variator, or a cpl in the belt....
..damn...
..tuning...
..it'll never end!!!....
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well i tried 6.5 w/stock spring, 1500 flys....ehhhh....today i have the 8.5 w/1500s.........i dont have any 6s or 9s...i had thought of a 7.25 before actually....lmao..(with oem var).. guess i need to try and get me one of those roller kits. do like that my belt goes tp the very edge of the var now unlike the oem which lacked about 2-3mm to reach edge...
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..yup...you wanna get every mm you can outta the variator, at top end........
..translates to more speed, if you can get that belt down into that driven face...
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the stock w/modified ramp plate wasnt this much a pain in the ass as this var is....to me..gotta weigh a lb more(if not more).(you remember sids pic of his,right)..
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..yeah, but every scoot is gonna react differently...
..how they were broken in...how they're ridden daily....
..humidity, elevation....
..it's all variable....
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..yeah, but every scoot is gonna react differently... ..how they were broken in...how they're ridden daily.... ..humidity, elevation.... ..it's all variable....
i wondered if my elevation,etc. is a problem for me, too.... i may even be higher than art, idk.. remember i said once "she changes daily"?..thats not a lie...lmao
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Thought you said you had a set of 7g and 7.5 oh well.I'm actually not to high (elivation wize) 400' its the cold and damp air here that makes some of my stuff a challenge,than going to mid 80s plus totaly changed some of my tuning.Did ya buy that people yet.do you know why someone tore it dawn like that?
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yeah, i do have those rollers...imma try a few different set ups today.....i had tried the equiv. to 6.5(3-5.7, 3-7). idk why but yeah i am gonna get it(ppl).. i think they layed it down then this guy(1 local shop) had started using parts from it..i just happened to see it and asked(didnt know all those parts were missing,knew some was gone)..always wanted a s9, got a lc too(needs carb, some plastic)..i think that motor is worth the $100 he wants
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.bat, you're in asheville arent you??
..i'd say you got art beat by a cpl thousand feet....
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:o whoa...your up early or late one...lmao. yeah, unfortunately i am in asheville..lmao.. belle chhere starts so traffic will be a clusterf*** in closed downtown... i thought i may be higher up...i think that gets me with SOMETHING!
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.yup..up early...every day, sadly....
..asheville's elevation is over 2100 ft....
..art's is around 400...
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i was thinking 2400ft?? like i know tho....lmao...whoa, art is WAY down low..youre even higher than that..lol.... dre never said where he is at?? im sure its in the flats alond wit everybody else. I AM ALLLLLL ALONE! :'( :D
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..i'm around 800 feet in elevation...
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no wonder it starts getting hot when you go down the mtn....lmao
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I'd put the s9 in the people frame,that motor with those tires could be a screamer and youd probably have the first one
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theres an idea...lmao....wonder how much modding youd have to do???...wish i knew the exact yr....didnt even think to look at the vin tag.. so the ppl parts will interchange in all years?????
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well i tried 5.7 w/1000/1500.... top about same...0-30 SUX ASS(hardly a a shift pattern, no o.d sound)...tried 5.7 w/stock main/1500. still sux, top always about the same, do think i lost a few mph wit stock spring......every combo i try is basically the same fukin result...what the f*** am i doing wrong???...variators suck ass unless you kit the scoot???...no sense there.. STILL dont have any stall........
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So far there all the same sept the pipes.Some duct tape and crazy glue you can get the radiator in ;D I think alot of the s 9 parts are interchangable also sept the jug and head(but mayby).All the a 50 tranny will fit the people too.The only thing I'm not sure of is if you can upgear the people with gy6 parts,never opened it up YET!
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Seems you should be able to run the stock and go up a 1/2 to 1g for more top see what you get.than try some spring changes.At least thats what i'm going to do when i get around to it,got the s200 cvt apart right now ;D
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I'll be back got to finish the 200
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tried all three springs several times now....its not really changing sh**...1500 helped hills a bit BEFORE this var, now it sux uphill.... still no stall to get the rpms up enough to go.wants to creep as soon as gas is given...no stall
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That sounds like your fly springs are grabbinh too soon.
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wish i did have some 2000 flys to try..my malossi pack, i dont think, fits....sooooooo....just have the 1500, tgought my green ones were but i dont believe they are..
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...i'm kinda experiencing the same thing on my guilty, bat...
..and i cant find my frickin' +50% Leo fly springs....
..i'm sure that's what i need, because they worked before.....
..i've got my engine turning higher revs now, and more torquey with the less restrictive exhaust...
...and these +15s are grabbing too soon...
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hmmm perintly i don/'t understand the cvt ;D I would think you would want it to grab as soon as posible hmmm now that you spell it out i think thats a bit of my problem too :D damn cvt's.On a brighter note sorta.No parts local for the s200. so since i had it apart I new the contra was too light(not recomended for the weak of heart)so i took a green malossi 50 spring and cut a white malossi spring cut to the same length as the stock and made me one ;) No more tire spin and wheelies but great hit just off idle and a bit more top all was going great to 100+ klm invisioned heavyer weights and a longer belt and REV LIMITER!!! damn! restricted 150 plus?Any info or thoughts,were'nt wearing my glasses could only read kl's
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..on my guilty, you gotta get the rpms up before you start torquing into the clutch...
..gets into the 4-strokes power band...
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Damn valves and cam chains and stuff.I'll have to try again with a little different thought process.Thought the problem was not grabbing soon enough whole different ball game.
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...firing on every other stroke puts the 4t at a disadvantage....
..can't turn up like the 2ts, so you gotta rev it a bit higher to get it strong..
..at least on my 50...
..dunno about larger bores, and how they might react...
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thats what i was thinking.......you wanted high ass revs to take off?!?!?!?!?!.....(like the stall converter in a car).....every scoot i see on youtube,etc. has high revs then its gone.....my var is way pissing me off BUUUUUT, i dont have but so many setups i can try at the moment....i miss having fat pockets!!!.. to dam broke for this sh** :'( :'(
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..if i could just find those damned red springs, i'd be tight.....
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havent found any locally either.... afraid to try order any more cuz of these malossi ones... wondered about jasil brand but im afraid they will look like malossi instead of the other...maybe one shop will have some red ones tues., but idk... hey, have you ever seen a ramp plate stay on the shaft when changing rollers??. supposed to come straight off w/var correct?? i have a modified one from vt,(steeper slope) it likes to stay put when i pull var off, of couree the oem and the new one stay in place w/the var.
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..i have the springs...somewhere...just can't locate them...dammit...
..i have seen that on that junker marshin i bought...
..but the ramp plate doesn't move anyway, ssso.....i dunno if it should be a concern....
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find 2 sets. :D i was wondering cuz its sort of aggrevating when you pull var off and rollers fall out first..(w/that plate) i figured i may as well try it w/the new var...lmao the plate is even heavier, just like the var itself.... i been trying all sorts of crap, to no avail of course. thinking i need those red ones, get me some rpms.....
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..can you remove it once everything cools?
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Hey batman, I dont know if we are talking about the same variator but my ramp plate comes with the movable face, though I do grab it with my fingers. If we are talking about the same one, then maybe that is my problem too.
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..gotta grab any of them....
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yeah sid, i had gotten the same as yours...a moveable face???? the ramp plate,right????.....i still have the oem drive face(the 1 w/the kick start nut) i had tried a different ramp plate with the s.a var. today......
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How did it go? I did mine on the cheap and it seems like all the parts are crap.
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.....
How did it go? I did mine on the cheap and it seems like all the parts are crap.
hey sid, good morning....bro, you just lost me....i apoligize about that.. we have the same var. i thought you liked it...
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Yeah, I thought it was ok, but what you are saying makes me think that I could do better with a decent brand name one. Remember, this is my first time, the only variators I know are the stock one and this one.
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same here bro i know nothing about them, but it seems all the other ones i DO see are lighter, just like the oem var....i was all excited when i got this one....lmao....now i am stumped...(imagine that a?)...lmao....i would like to try somemore but man its getting on my nerves....lmao
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I MAY HAVE FOUND A CONNECTION!!.. :D check this out sid in case you think yours is an issue... i took the new race variator and put the aftermrkt ramp plate,(from vt cycles,steeper slope), w/7.5 rollers..ran better, hills also, rpms were higher the whole time.. didnt have any stall tho, found a set of 2000 flys to put in, rpms were up before take off.. bit of belt tug tho but seems WAY better than before, top seems to still be there, low seems better. did seem to do a "quick 1st", very "long 2nd", then o.d( for lack of better terms from "shifting")...i know theres a shift pattern, i can hear/feel some... OH YEAH, on my way home this eve.,stopped at gas,the man hating woman cop here in this ONE red light town was sweating me and she walked up toward me asking if i was riding the scooter, y yes i am i say.. "you need to get a muffler on that thing, are you sure you havent gotten a ticket?",uh no?!?! "be sure u put one on".RLMAO,pipe is chrome,tip is green
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There ya go try the 8g, you are close!!! Didn't tell here you were xpermenting with a harly pipe.(legal the country over)
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i had forgot to mention that i was using the stock contra during this trial.. so the belt tug is from to light a roller, correct?. what you think happen if i changed to 1000 contra????? your opinion....i do have some 8s btw, luckily...lmao i also seemed to experiance a bit of that long return to idle again.(i did turn it to 1 out per your thinking, it did work too,btw) cant go any lower if it continues...
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It's all experimental at this point It would be easy to put the 8g rollers in for a quick test compared to the clutch. The long return from idle for me was another !/4 turn in no ill affects so far With the stock carb and mods you got to make it run the best its going too,you have voided your warrenty no turning back now Ha!. A bigger pilot would cure that though!
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all this makes me want to sell my s10blazer so i can buy a bunch of stuff for several scoots...id like that, have my own lil yard full..
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..i hear ya!!!
..hadda work late today, so i didn't get to start on my ppl...dammit...
..but i have tomorrow OFF!!!
..will be my first full day off work in the last 20 days....
:-\
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dam, that blows, i can feel ya tho(sortof), i only get sun. off myself but where i live, my landlord persey, is WAY christian, cant work/do NOTHIN on sun.(have to hide any work/scoot tuning)...lmao... i have to work in the gravel outside instead of a shop/garage....
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what up word? art?? thanks for the replys, sorry i missed you last eve.. i was getting my belt cover polished, looking WAY FKN GOOD!!!!..not perfect like areomysts cover but i am digging this mod. anyway, i put in some 8 rollers... still seem to have a touch belt tug/slippage, runs good, have the high rpms BUT the ACTUALL takeoff osnt there..seems to still have slow take off, goes real good to 20-25, falls off a bit with a steady climb till 45, then it takes a stretch to get my 49-50. wonder what a 1000 spring would do???....... instead of answering your spring there, ill answer here...................thanks for the correction.. but my oem, ncy springs are the same..malossi, leo are shorter, no wonder they are a pain... i picked up a set of red flys sat, (ncy), they fit fairly easy, cuz of the longer hook...sending my malossi ones w/airfilter back and order the malossi reed cage instead....hope it works good.....
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i have to work in the gravel outside instead of a shop/garage....
..i work in my living room...where it's nice and cool...
..been 90 plus here since june...
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i have thought about it....lmao....it dam sure has been hot.... must be a big living room..lmao......
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Wish i had room ha! too many scoots in the way,I'm up two more as of today minus none Damn! The deals keep coming can't sale jack ::) Some people just have to bitch ;)
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what up word? art?? thanks for the replys, sorry i missed you last eve.. i was getting my belt cover polished, looking WAY FKN GOOD!!!!..not perfect like areomysts cover but i am digging this mod. anyway, i put in some 8 rollers... still seem to have a touch belt tug/slippage, runs good, have the high rpms BUT the ACTUALL takeoff osnt there..seems to still have slow take off, goes real good to 20-25, falls off a bit with a steady climb till 45, then it takes a stretch to get my 49-50. wonder what a 1000 spring would do???....... instead of answering your spring there, ill answer here...................thanks for the correction.. but my oem, ncy springs are the same..malossi, leo are shorter, no wonder they are a pain... i picked up a set of red flys sat, (ncy), they fit fairly easy, cuz of the longer hook...sending my malossi ones w/airfilter back and order the malossi reed cage instead....hope it works good.....
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You were getting your belt cover polished(on the bike I assume ;D) Here's a link to something on the cvt Im sorta starting to make sense off ;) Somwhere in there there is a paragraph on maintaining a constant rpm,power band a soforth. It has put the picture in my mind a little clearer as to what we're shooting for. Not the way I was thinking it worked overall with no exp in these things. now i hope it works in practice . http://site.g-forcepowersports.com/CVTTune.pdf (http://site.g-forcepowersports.com/CVTTune.pdf)
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..AWE-FRIKIN'-SOME ART!!
..!!EXCELLENT LINK!!..
:o
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My ignorence was pissing me off Ha! unfortunatly this was the best of scores of wright ups. I thinks i get it now ;)
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..i posted that link under it's own topic..
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Cool
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well i been riding the stock contra and 8 rollers like suggested and now my belt tug/slippage is WORSE AND LONGER...........WHY? WHAT THE f***S THE DEAL HERE??? also can ANYBODY tell me why i put in 2000fly springs and now my dam idle takes 30-45 sec. to return to normal if at all...it was fkn springs not carb work
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... now my belt tug/slippage is WORSE ...
..tug or slip?...two different problems.....
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Ha! if ya cought my link and kinda what i figured on my own. Carb must be dialed for best results. Been running the same circle. My guess for yours if i learned any thing is heavier contra and lighter rollers,the fly's will delay or shorten the grab once it grabs DON'T matter back to your weights and tuneing. HA! all theary at this point. Playing with some thing else today. Got to post the fun I've been having with the geely.
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...but you're right on the money, art...
..can't explain bat's delima tho,...i saw an increased top speed with stiffer flys in my oem clutch..........
..made no sense...
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That does hold true,to get the rpms up. The right combo you get to hold all the way to the top. you got your power band at optimal all the way through. For me and bat we hit bits of brilliance at the expence of performance through out.Theary again I'll get to it,but thats the way i see it.
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yeah, this is really gettin to me....lmao..... VERY AGGREVATING on this end.. my top is pretty much the same but SLOW ASS take off.. i can feel a bad tug(different than b4?) for longer at take off.. it did seem to have an act of slippage 2 times. may not have been but it sure felt like it.....of course i was 2-3mph slower today than yesterday also! ??? idk, the air i guess. seems to be slow up to 20-25, then a steady climb to 45? LONG piece will get me to 49-51... i wondered if that 1000 would help.. it did seem to feel the tug was in the rear? if that helps/makes any sense...lmao.. why did the zx HAVE to be the smallest,SLOWEST kymco made?? ??? :-\ lmao
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I think the contra is the key for you(stiffer) than start to down size the weights,Im in the same boat right now you might beat me off the line to 30 mph,than mine comes alive scary fast. Read the link several times it did help me understand (I think) ;) ;D ::)
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..carb tuning comes first!!..that was a bit difficult for me to get, until i fully understood plug chops...
....i already had a decent grasp of cvt tuning..
..it's my guilty's claim to fame...
;)
..but that post really made it click home......
..i need 5gr rollers in place of my 4.7s i think....
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this wasnt as hard, i dont think, was this dam difficult before the var change......imma sling that dam thing....i cant see the post, phone wont go to it...idk????? oh yeah, checked today, those 3 scoots are still sittin an waiting for me...lmao
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...yeah, itsa link to a pdf file...
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I didn't know that, no place to get on line? I thought i had my carb dialed the cvt is telling me were i'm week now,Of corse it was fine till i tinkered with the cvt to beyond my ability ;D It will get solved if i ever finish any of my many projects. I got a friend that keep showing up with stuff to make matters worse. Got roped into a wood chipper yesterday while trying to put his ch150 back together(he somehow managed to lose the head for it ::) ) Fun stuff Maybe the geely will fit in the chipper :D
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..dang...i can't keep up with your projects, art...lol...
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Me neither trying to get rid of some completed ones and managed to pick up more.(We will call winter projects) but thats usually when the best deals are! side yard is getting full! ::) Reminds me got to re up my c.l. posts
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Batman- Re-read that link on cvt tuning. That is a very good article, thanks Art! I do believe that you need a stiffer contra than what you've been running to solve the "tug/slip" at take-off. Read the last paragraph of that article. In going with a stiffer contra you may actually have to go slightly heavier on the rollers to compensate for the additional force from the spring holding the belt lower on the variator face. I also think that getting a tach will help you with your tuning tremendously! It is almost a necessity to be able to properly tune the carb as well as the cvt! After running with a tach now for awhile I don't think I can go back! With the tach it is very easy to see where the powerband is and where you need to tune the cvt to stay there. On my particular set-up I run between 7200 - 8200 rpm all the time. The clutch really locks up at about 7800 revving to about 8000. Then after I've launched it drops to about 7200 and pulls me the rest of the way through up to a max of about 8600 at full speed when I'm really hauling A$$!!! I guess the point I'm trying to make is that ideally you need to tune the cvt so the engine stays in the powerband the entire time, from take-off to max speed the engine shouldn't drop out of the powerband. That is where the slow periods of acceleration are occurring.
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thats one thing tho, i have tried stock, 1000,1500.... thought i had a lick when i got the rpms up, but the tug/slip crap mixed with slack ass takeoff..i mean i am only 230lbs., (borderline oem weight limit tho..lmao)not like 375.. whats your take on the heavier variator tho??....
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Ha! I know your asking shaka but with the mods allot of conventional thinking is no more,do you have the red contra or what is next in your pack. The deal is if you are reving higher overall you got to delay it till your in your prime rpm = the power band. Then tune to your new curve with the weights. For me right now I'm blowing past it so fast cause the tranny slips till it can get cought up than go's like a bat out of hell. I have tried every weight and clutch spring i have,with no real results (I'm running a 12g weight set to counter my miss tuning to get a half assed result) . Because no matter what I do I'm not able to take full advantage of my new tranny + mods with out stalling it a bit via the next contra spring and untill than no adjustment can be refined with exceptible results ha! I think i'm getting this ,not bad after a pint of whiskey ;) The weight of your drive face has to be factered in too so may have to lighten up for it also. Simply i have tooo much torque for all to work together,if i do get this O.M.G. It's ganna be fast!!! I don't think 75-80 is out of the question.
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no, i dont have the red contra...i do think that could be to much..(1500 slowed some things down, but helped a bit on top)..i will try the 1000(if you remember last week, the 1500 dam near killed it going on an incline)..i am about to get highly irrate over this crap....$1300 this fkn thing SHOULD HAUL ASS ALL DAY,EVERY DAY..........NOT!!!!!!.... see, im gefting ill with it again..immma end up letting it sit and not fuk wit anything scoot related.....you are losing me, how the hell you go from 5.5 to 12, with thee flick of a switch.???? i get more lost these days wit this...
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ok guys, whats up? ready for a round of dumb ? fellas?....lmao. hey art, by the drive face, are you talking about the belt plate in front of the variator, correct??.on the zx, it has the kickstart nut welded on from factory, its steel, fairly heavy,bout var.i wanted one with fins to help cool that side but they dont have one.....this a.m i did notice the tug seems to be borderline slip, seems to tug "deep inside"..maybe shaka will chime in also, hey shaka,i did try your suggestion w/1500 main, 8.5 rollers(no 9s).. that set had garbage takeoff, still had bout the same top, but abslolutely dies going up hills( couldve been this HEAVIER var), so i didnt even bother getting any..i rode it for 2days(long rides), i didnt like it..i thought i had a roller kit coming but they wrecked a motorcycle that eve. instead, been going to hospital, reason my posts are slack....anybody want to sell a used set of 9s,6s????..lol...i did just put back in the 1000 w/8s, seemed worse so im gonna try the 8.5s
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I know it's a little confusing. To brake it down simple The contra is not letting us get to the right rpm to be tuned correctly, at this point for you run the 1500 and start going through your roller set starting at say a 5g and move up get this as close as possible to your liking. Pay attention to how your carb performs through this also. The link I posted more or less explains The clutch is a factor but the real gains are in the wieghts and carb tuneing all has to work in harminy to get the best performance!!! If you need some weights pm me with an address and what you think you need ;D
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Batman- Re-read that link on cvt tuning. That is a very good article, thanks Art! I do believe that you need a stiffer contra than what you've been running to solve the "tug/slip" at take-off. Read the last paragraph of that article. In going with a stiffer contra you may actually have to go slightly heavier on the rollers to compensate for the additional force from the spring holding the belt lower on the variator face. I also think that getting a tach will help you with your tuning tremendously! It is almost a necessity to be able to properly tune the carb as well as the cvt! After running with a tach now for awhile I don't think I can go back! With the tach it is very easy to see where the powerband is and where you need to tune the cvt to stay there. On my particular set-up I run between 7200 - 8200 rpm all the time. The clutch really locks up at about 7800 revving to about 8000. Then after I've launched it drops to about 7200 and pulls me the rest of the way through up to a max of about 8600 at full speed when I'm really hauling A$$!!! I guess the point I'm trying to make is that ideally you need to tune the cvt so the engine stays in the powerband the entire time, from take-off to max speed the engine shouldn't drop out of the powerband. That is where the slow periods of acceleration are occurring.
..dang..i was fixin' to post a "where's shaka" topic...
;D
..
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The link I posted more or less explains The clutch is a factor but the real gains are in the wieghts and carb tuneing all has to work in harminy to get the best performance!!! If you need some weights pm me with an address and what you think you need
..by george, i think he's GOT IT!!...
:D
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i have no idea what i need..lmao.......like to try some 9,9.5,10..6, 5.5......i guess anyway...lol anything besides what i do have..lol....how much you wanting for a set??..i buy some, just to try, since my ordering hook up is laid up in trauma unit, i got a couple addresses...lol.. wish i didnt have this phone cuz i wanna post a pic of MY scoot too.. :'(
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since my ordering hook up is laid up in trauma unit
..??..wtf..??...
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i had mentiined it in another thread...yeah, she went riding with her ex husband(he is a buddy also), they were hit about 1500ft from her driveway..guy went to turn in front of them and just creamed them and the motorcycle...they both have came out of their comas, ted did lose a leg tho
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...woww...sorry to hear so...
..said a prayer for them both....
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I are a stuper geenee ass. Got to work on all my theary today. And me has got it!!! I could not find my red contra after tearing the place apart,i rememberd it lives in a aero 125 now.DOH! So took the 25 year old left over and installed (It was red at one time). Instant sucess!!! The contra stalls just enouph to get me in my power band all the way through. now i can tune the weights and fly's till the cows come home YEE HAW PARTNER ;D ! HA! So the set im currently running is the red contra,the gates 749 and a set of 12g weights. The rusults not perfect. I believe I can run the next contra or go up 1 to 2 g's as is. Unfortunetly I have niether at this time. what a difference Damn. I'm peaking my power band a little early still so top speed isn't there yet but all the way to it is a night and day difference.
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Wow sorry to hear that bat you all slipped in whille i was posting. Preyer out from here too'
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the gates 749 and a set of 12g weights
...sounds like maybe 1/2 gram lighter...
..its the minor adjustments that get you dailed in once you're close...
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..meant heavier...
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Tried that It wants to run higher,This is my kitted people 50 its got some torque. topping my power band out before it gets really rolling. Hey bat Don't want any money,got weight comming out my ears ;D I think you really need that next contra to be even in the ball park. (it worked for me!)
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Ya that kinda where its at more stall or more weight
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..i'm running 4.7 grm rollers in my guilty..
..i'm gonna try 4.5s..i still need to get the initial rpms up just slightly...and be able to hold them...
..however....i'm still running my oem carb..reckon i should put the 20mm back on it before i get too roller-swapping-happy....
:-\
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Carb should put you in a new band,might need that next contra :D I got some 5.6g here if ya need.
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..yeah, i've been flirting with the 1500..i bought one a while back, but it's o.d. is too small for my clutch...
..i have a set of 5.5's here, but i ran the crap out of them...
..have my trusty roller tuning kit, just need to get off here long enought to do it!!...lol..
..kinda happy with how it's running with the oem carb tho...wow...so it's not so much of a a pressing issue...
..but, then again..............................
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THANK YOU BOTH VERY MUCH... a 2000contra on a stock cyl.??..im sure thats way to much for me..you have a bbk& a ppl..lol.. thought the stall came from the flys??
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Think of the flys as the very fine tuneing,you have to be in the range before thay are usefull. Thats where the contra comes in. You have a stock jug but you did the squish and a couple other things so your power band has changed. If it's not the contra you should be able to scream with some weight changes. Almost all your symptoms were identical to mine and no matter what i did could not get it dialed, the reason i have so many weight sets :D So don't know where else to turn.(I do have a set of 9.0 and 9.5's if you want to try them out.
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she seemed to be slower at take off with the stiffer contra, unless your saying some 10s..lol or some sh**, THEN maybe i could see a difference at all with a 1500 contra(think a 2000 would be wrong, BUT i could be wrong of course)... oh man, yeah, id love to try those rollers..
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pm me with an adress and zip i'll send them
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Man this is hard to follow! You guess have so much info and different set-up/trial-error going on! Batman- I think that the heavier variator could have some effect on the roller weight, but not much. The weight of the variator itself doesn't effect the shifting, but probably more the engine and it's ability to rev to the powerband quickly. You also have all of this info about how it's slower taking off and what not. Nothing really about the engine rpms. What I'm getting at is you need to pay attention to the engine more than how fast it accelerates. When you are taking off slow is it because the engine is above or below the powerband? Are you revving the crap out of the engine and going nowhere fast? Or is the engine below the powerband and struggling to rev up? If the rollers are too light and/or contra too stiff you will stay in the "easy" gear longer and overrev the engine. If the rollers are too heavy and/or the contra too weak you will shift into a harder gear before you engine can rev up into the powerband.
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Ha! I hear ya shaka I think the veriater weight was not in question it was the drive face. I had swapped to an aluminium and it threw any progess i had out the window. A reminder don't change to many things at once!!! ;D
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..on my a50..i replaced my oem drive face with an aluminum NCY.....(MUCH lighter in weight)..and had to increase my roller weights to 6 gr from 4.7 ....
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Got ya! I'm not aware of an aluminum outer pulley face for the ZX. It has the starter teeth around the edge. May be able to adapt one to fit, but you'd lose your electric start. Not an issue for me though, been kickstarting for over a year now! I don't think that steel pulley face will have much of an effect on the variator. I wouldn't know though, I'm still running the stock one as well as the stock torque driver and clutch bell.
Good advice on not changing too many things at once though!
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..on my a50..i replaced my oem drive face with an aluminum NCY.....(MUCH lighter in weight)..and had to increase my roller weights to 6 gr from 4.7 ....
There's some real world evidence! I never really thought about it.
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..itsa true story...
..but i'm running the stock face now...
..didn't like the 'luminum one...it made my belt ride against my starter bendix...
..had a taller profile...
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your still running the stock var shaka??? wow, figured youd changed that long ago...lol......... i am always below the powerband....now it hits it sooner than before but i have tug and slow ass take off, (below band), then a decent climb with good rpms then levels out..seems to be in power band more now since the 2000 flys installed with stock contra and 7.5... awesome,art,thanks man.....woooo hoooooo....
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Ditto thought i knew what i was doing. Ordered the 9.5g dr pulley set and didn't work at all with the lighter drive face. Now running a 12g set and could go more.
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I am running a Malossi Variator, but you still have to use the stock outer pulley face with the starter teeth on it. Keep in mind that your fly springs don't effect any of your shifting, just when the clutch engages! You can leave those out of the equation until you get your shifting sorted. If you are below the powerband then you need lighter rollers and/or stiffer contra. You should not need a 2000 contra. If I were you I would start with the 1000 contra and tune the rollers from there. Put in your lightest rollers and see if you are still below the power band. When you're too light you'll know it! You will instantly rev to max rpm and not go anywhere fast! You'll be creeping down the road doing 15 mph, sounding like you're doing 70 mph!
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This drive face will work with the people 2t and the a50 and probably some others, With a starter gear, I did have to sacrifice the fan,but the aluminium seems to disapate the heat well and my clutch is vented. It runs a bit taller on the ramp for a little more top. I might be able to use the electric start with this also on the people 2t Havn't put it back in yet (it did turn it over no problem). Was worried about the belt rub. http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/ruima-racing-variator-139qmb.html (http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/ruima-racing-variator-139qmb.html)
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That's pretty cool! I've never seen one with the starter teeth. Says it fits the Agility.
Slinger- did we determine if yours uses the same variator as my ZX?
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I've never seen one with the starter teeth
..whaaat??
..never seen one without teeth...lol..
:o
..i dunno about the zx, but the a50 and ppl parts are the same...
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well i did put in the 1000 again w/8.5...i get the rpms for sure(flys?)...still slow takeoff but not AS slow.....guess i better not mess with it till i can get more rollers then....
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well knowing its fri. i went out and went back to stock cvt, var, contra, flys, rollers....i must be a fukn burnout then...STILL SLOW TAKE OFF, RPMS WERE THERE QUICKER THO, BUT I LOST ABOUT 5-6mph, absolutely screams to get to 49-50 now...this cvt sh** sucks ass dude....dam near the same sh** as this a.m but lost top speed and a screamer....oh yeah, no stall still.....wants to go with any gas.. what am i SUPPOSED TO EVEN LOOK FOR IN THE CONTRA????....... IS THERE A ROCKET SCIENTIST IN THE HOUSE??????????????????
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oh yeah, the scream is even downhill screams to get 49-50 instead of my 55-58 downhill nice and smooth ....she wouldnt even think of getting anywhere near that on flat land............pushing to get 45
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just put in 1000 /still stock set..bout same..rpm still gets there quicker, but slow, turning you will creep,no power...still screams downhill, some top is back.......and you try to say a aftermarket var weight isnt an issue....wrong answer..rpm gets quicker with oem, screams wit oem, loxs of top wit oem..
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so i HAVE to be correct when i said the fly springs are the stall for the clutch....(still no stall)(wheres the stall from the contra you spoke of??)
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well i was ill huh?..i apologize...of the wall ?... the ramp plate.. do all aftermarket var have a low sloped ramp plate?.. whats the signifigance for the low slope?. top end??? and a steep slope for bottom end(steeper than oem)???
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Ha! I feel your pain,the screaming is to light a weight. The contra allows the motor to rev higher and longer when matched to your power out put. The flys help to fine tune as to a harder or softer take off.You have to be in the band to get any use out of them. I got you some weights on the way, still think ya need the next contra. But hope the weight will get you on the right track.
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you mean the 1500?? ...for me, it gets very frustrating, but then again i may not even know WHEN/IF dailed in.... i dont even know what to have with any of the contras.....maybe i can get to a pc and print that link off and study it soon...
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The rollers are to light if screaming. When you have it right it will pull constant bottom to top untill you have no more hp to give. For me the stiffer contra let the rpms get up just a little bit more to make full use of my short powerband with the 2t motor. So i'm in the power band start to finish till the moter has no more. Ha! now i'm confused Can't quite splain it lucy ;D
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I have a feeling your set-up should be 1000 contra, 1000 flys, and somewhere about a 7.5g roller, maybe 8g. Just try it! ;)
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..lucy, i'm hhomme!!!
..but that's just it!!
..once you find your engine's desired power-making rpm range...
...WOW!!!...
..carb MUST BE RIGHT!!!..to get there tho....
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..lucy, i'm hhomme!!!
..but that's just it!!
..once you find your engine's desired power-making rpm range...
...WOW!!!...
..carb MUST BE RIGHT!!!..to get there tho....
Definately!
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..batman...from a derestricted oem state, ...open the airbox (K&N) and main jet, then do plug chops....adjust your main jet accordingly, due to what you see at the firing ring area of your plug...
;)
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I ACTUALLY GOT TO A PC THIS AM!!!!!......i printed the cvt setup off....from what i just read, if i am not mistaken, i WANT a short 1st,(to about 20mph) looooong 2nd, then overdrive, correct????????????? if that is so, DAMNITT MAN, i had that one time, even posted on it............ but i really should try to use my new heavy ass var tho, correct???(think i had that with new var also)..... hope somebody sees this post soon....lmao
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..batman...from a derestricted oem state, ...open the airbox (K&N) and main jet, then do plug chops....adjust your main jet accordingly, due to what you see at the firing ring area of your plug...
;)
oh crap, here you go again with that....lmao........... she seemed ok, a bit lean tho..... can i try and just get in the ballpark with the cvt 1st???......lmao.... did figure i would try once more with the jet issue,(raggidy ass oem carbs...lmao) guess it is good tho since i cant mess up but the one piece instead of a fully adjustable one.....lmao
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It should be a constant pull all the way through bottom to top. It should not very too much. If the veriater is a better performer over stock deffinetly!!!
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man... yesterday i posted and went out to play wit cvt...i seen my exhaust side bolts lose and my dam pipe was BROKE at the weld.....sh**, took me all day to find a roll of wire and get it fixed so i didnt find sh** out yesterday..that blowed my cvt plans...wonder if i can today, its rainy here this a.m tho
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you guys make my head hurt!!! whats been up shaka..... how long does it take to wear a belt out if you're doing ALOT of line locking? i just put the right size tires back on and put the rollers i had back in but i didn't get my top end back.
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Never hurts to replace if there is any doubt. You'll have a spare. No top,may need heavier rollers,didn't you change them? 8.5 are stock. May also need to clean out the cvt and deglaze the clutch.
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G'day batman, I have been away a while and see you are doing your head in with this variator. With regards to the idle not dropping back, if you mean while riding then slowing down, that could be that your torque spring is keeping your clutch running until you are almost stopped, I found the same thing when I put the 1000 spring in. as Art suggested, change one item at a time to see what difference it makes before moving on to the next. If you are using the stock torque spring I think 8.5 rollers would be too heavy. With regard to fly springs, I am using 1,500 and wouldn't go any higher. Sorry this is giving you so much grief, hope you get it sorted. If you can scrape up the money, a cyl. kit is well worth the effort. I sometimes think of going back to stock to see the difference..... but, nah bugger that, keep what I already have, not good but better than stock.
I am sorry nto hear about your friends, must be heartbraking to be there when there is not much you can do, but at least you can be there for them. All the beast to you and your friends.
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G'day sid...glad to see you back,hope all is well with you.... yeah, i must not be understanding the link, but if after i printed that, and i was correct i just hope i can get back, wrote most sets down, buuut, i may not have THAT one. i do think we have one of the heaviest var out there..im hoping "the light will come on" soon..lmao, will have more rollers to try soon, thanks to art.havent gotten a tuning kit yet..... i do think NOBODY in the history of scooters has had the difficulty that I have ran across with the tunning process...lmao......i am going to try and play with it tomorrow and see if i can get it..... THANK YOU VERY MUCH SID!!...yeah, its been a bit wierd around there.. thankfully they are both still alive!!...
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Yeah batman, I am wondering just where my problems are now. With you having the trouble with your tuning makes me think my performance issues may well be in the variator not the engine, after all that work on the cylinder maybe the variator is the letdown.
Stay cool, patience and persistence will pay off in the end. I know, easier said than done. :)
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yeah, i wonder myself...i figured your scoot was good now??? shaka seemed to think the wieght wasnt an issue but im not convinced on that yet...wonder about my stock one again...lmao....guess ill see if i can get it right today......again...lmao........ what happens to be YOUR symtoms??..
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The engine runs ok, but opening the throttle it just doesn't take off as quick as I hoped it would, top speed is ok for what it is (a little scooter), around 90kph, but just doesn't get there quick enough. I was hoping to be getting away from the lights leaving the cars behind but this is not to be. I feel there is a lot more to be got from this engine but I won't be able to get it without spending more money and I have more work to do on my car which is going to cost, yep, you guessed it, more money.
When I get the car sorted I will probably buy a new exhaust for the scoot, but as the last one seems to have been a waste of money I am not in a hurry, so will just ride the scoot as is.
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g'day sid...yeah, that seems to be an issue with me also. wheres that poppin takeoff?? word and art both posted about some awesome take off now, of course they have other kymcos but shaka and z also has the same take off..with a zx!! i played with my cvt yesterday.i currently have a 1000 w/stock flys, 7g w/"race var". (shaka did mention this). belt tug gone, top end back, take off BETTER but not like EVERYBODY ELSE.. does seem to need a tad more stall at take off. hypothectically like she wants to go at 36-3800 instead of 4000.. i have to be close, rpms seem very close to the same throughout, got that long,steady climb...she seemed to run nicely yesterday with that so i am wondering if i even need to try a 1500 contra set up.....i can try a 6.5 in this var this a.m but i dont have but 2 lighter weights.. i at least want to be close so i can go to the next project(cuz its gonna change then also.....AGAIN).. but as sid said, the take off, you have great takeoff, we dont...lmao
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no comments from yesterday :'( well i tried 6.5s, belt tug came back a touch seems ok except for the tug.......... can anybody tell me the signifigance of these fly springs? went out and traded stock for 1500..revs higher but take off seems slower than with oem....do you have to change weights also messing with the flys?????? ??? ??? ???
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For me the slow take off was belt slipping (rev higher but go no faster = more weight). You will have to change the weights. Once you have that you can fine tune even more with the fly springs the way i see it. Heavier springs to slow the grab at take off,lighter to grab quicker at take off. Keep in mind once the clutch is engaged it does nothing else it's locked on the bell. all the tuning is back to the verieter,weights and horsepower of the bike.
The contra will control the rpm at which all this takes place. Getting this dialed is the key to the clutch side. It must match your bikes power output for best results.
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well i ASSUME i am close, unless of course i wanna start allllllll over again with a 1500 contra......the oem var makes her scream at wot, the heavier one slows her down a tad, no scream..... still have slow take off but better than it has been, rpms sound good(no tach)...no snappy take off for sure.........
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also thought about this......so since the 6.5s gave a bit of belt tug/slippage, i could THEN put in the 1500 fly springs and that should handle that where i can try the 6.5, 6s????????????????
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Must try all options!!! :D
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aahhhhhhhh shiiiiitt.......... :-\ ::) not quite the answer i was hoping for....lmao......