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Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: Dark13 on February 10, 2010, 01:49:02 AM

Title: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 10, 2010, 01:49:02 AM
OK after just under a year of owning my scoot i have changed out the stock rollers for 5 grams and removed the spacer and I'm amazed that its running 37mph (according to the people that have followed me) and now I'm thinking of doing other things to improve the performance

so I'm wondering what should i do next? up the carb jets, mod the cdi, new exhaust/intake

or should i leave it be?
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Shaka on February 10, 2010, 01:55:40 AM
Doesn't sound like you're done to me!  Should be able to get some more easy speed out of it!  Have you de-restricted the CDI?  Next step would be to upjet the carb with a free flow filter.  You should be able to get another fairly easy 10mph out of it!
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 10, 2010, 02:02:56 AM
do you know of a cheap place to get a stock cdi i would like to have a back up just in case

and if i up the carb will i have to change the air filter or will the stock work?


oh and whats this K&N free flow air filter i keep hearing about
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Shaka on February 10, 2010, 02:31:09 AM
Not sure of a cheap oem CDI.  Stadium Yamaha has excellent reviews around as an oem parts supplier and 10% below MSRP!  If you're going that route, you may as well just get a re-programmed CDI.  Suitai is the oem manufacturer of Kymco CDI's.  Zombie has purchased through them directly.  There are many posts on here about them.  Honestly, I would just cut the one you have.  If you somehow manage to mess it up, the worst that could happen is you need to buy a new one anyways! 

As for the carb, there is no reason to change the settings with the stock set-up.  You would just be running too rich!  The point of up-jetting is to accommodate the added air the K&N filter provides.  If you look at my avatar, that is a pic of my carb with a K&N filter attached.
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 10, 2010, 02:48:42 AM
>_> hypothetical question what would/should you do if you snap off one of the bolts that hold the cvt cover on?  >_>..........not that happened or anything..........<_<
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Shaka on February 10, 2010, 03:00:29 AM
Many of the bolts holes run all the way through.  They should be real easy to drill out from the back and use an ez out if needed.  I wouldn't worry too much about it, there are plenty of other bolts to hold things in place.  It would be one of those "Oh $h*t" moments, but I'd probably leave it till I got real motivated to remove it.  I have run my Vento with only 3 bolts in it and it worked just fine.  It only had 3 when I got it.
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: zombie on February 10, 2010, 04:00:28 AM
I didn't see this thread till now. Dark, You can buy a left twist drill bit to remove the broken stud. ( if it really happened) You know how a drill bit catches, and stalls a drill? Well a reverse bit will catch, and spin out a broken bolt. Use a punch to center your bit, and it will come right out.
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Kimcofan on February 10, 2010, 11:15:07 PM
You have a few things to do, but easy peasy there are great people on this forum to help you through it!  Good luck and keep us posted!!
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Urbestfriend on February 10, 2010, 11:39:05 PM
Urbestfriend repeats:  "Any screws you remove" especially Phillips type.
Go to the Hardware and buy replacements with Allen Heads.  Most Hardwares
have a section with drawer after drawer of nuts, bolts, washers,  you name it,
both SAE and Metric.   It's not that expensive and sure makes things easier.
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: zombie on February 10, 2010, 11:51:21 PM
Excellent advice. I would also add lock washers.
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 11, 2010, 01:22:50 AM
OK my dealer said he would cut the cdi for free

so what should be next?

oh and something i want to mention before i get anymore suggestions my scoot is my only means of transportation at the moment that's why I'm so cautious

Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Shaka on February 11, 2010, 01:41:44 AM
That's great you convinced your dealer to make the cut!  I hear ya on the scoot as your only means of transportation!  Mine as well!  I did buy a back up, just in case though.  The next thing to do is probably get a K&N air filter and a selection of a few larger main jets.  Oh yeah, and a few extra spark plugs to do plug chops to get your jets dialed in!  I think Wordslinger has the model # of the filter he ordered somewhere on here.  You can order directly from http://www.knfilters.com (http://www.knfilters.com).  The filter you want is listed under universal cone filters.  There is a whole list of all the different sizes there.  Your dealer sounds pretty helpful, they may be able to get you the larger main jets.
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 11, 2010, 01:49:21 AM
the grease monkey at the dealer said that installing the k&n filter would suck alot of trash in because of the clearance from the ground so if i do it i should make sure i can get to it easy what has been your experience?
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Shaka on February 11, 2010, 03:01:49 AM
Mine has been great!  I've had it installed for about 6-7 months and have not had to clean it.  It is dirty looking, but the K&N's don't really loose any flow when they are dirty.  Plus, they are pretty easy to clean!
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: zombie on February 11, 2010, 04:04:06 AM
Ive had mine for 2+ years, with no problems at all. There are only benefits from better air flow to the cylinder. You should see another 3-5 mph from that alone. I also have an 82 nc/50 engine mounted to a West Coast Choppers bicycle frame that is running a velocity stack. On that one I use a piece of stainless steel screen. It keeps the birds out.
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 11, 2010, 11:48:27 AM
the grease monkey at the dealer said that installing the k&n filter would suck alot of trash in because of the clearance from the ground so if i do it i should make sure i can get to it easy what has been your experience?

..grease monkey should stay in tree...
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 11, 2010, 12:21:34 PM
oh and i was also wondering what is the difference performance wise between

the stock clutch bell and the ncy performance bell

the stock belt and a kevlar one

and finally the stock variator and the golden teflon coated ncy one that is a little bigger diameter

are they really worth it?
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: axy on February 11, 2010, 01:40:08 PM
oh and i was also wondering what is the difference performance wise between

the stock clutch bell and the ncy performance bell

the stock belt and a kevlar one

and finally the stock variator and the golden teflon coated ncy one that is a little bigger diameter

are they really worth it?

Had kevlar belts on my previous scoots and never saw the difference, except that kevlars are even cheaper than stock. :)
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: zombie on February 11, 2010, 04:42:34 PM
The belt will make no performance gain by it self. A kevlar will last longer than a standard rubber/nylon belt. The clutch bell again is not a performance belt by itself, but can be if added to a quality clutch. It is the clutch pads/springs that do all the work there. Var. weights ARE the ticket to torqueville. Read some of the older posts about them. As a rule of thumb heavier will lower rpms, and get into top range in the cvt faster. Lighter will give more rpms, and keep you in the powerrange of your engine longer. I think shaka likes the 4.5 gr rollers on his Ag.
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: axy on February 11, 2010, 07:22:23 PM
The belt will make no performance gain by it self. A kevlar will last longer than a standard rubber/nylon belt.

Zombie, I respectfully disagree.

I very often heard this opinion on various boards and by various people and it is not correct, quite the opposite.

Kevlar belts will last the same or even less than regular belt. HOWEVER, they will not stretch longitudinally that much and will hold their characteristics even under extreme conditions (heat, higher speed), compared to regular belts. This is why they are recommended for use with enhanced scooters. "Regular" belts tend to stretch in length while they wear out "sideways" and you will notice that when the belt is due for replacement, top speed of the scooter and ability to climb well also diminishes. With kevlars, they will wear out but will not stretch, thus maintaining the scoot's performance.

My personal experience confirms this. I had kevlar belts on my both Piaggio NRGs, Kymco Cobra and Peugeot Zenith and they had to be replaced in regular intervals, just like OEMs.
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: zombie on February 11, 2010, 11:19:35 PM
Yeah, That's what I meant. I was just posting quick, to get out the door. A standard belt can last 3-4 years on most scoots. I change my Malossi belt once a year. I have a few of them in the shop as spares. I just haven't gone to the "end" with one. By lasting longer I did mean performance wise. Never gave a thought to "lifetime" of the belt. Same as a car/truck. The cheepo belts will stretch and need adjustment, where a quality belt will not need to be adjusted as often...Just replaced as preventive care. You are one of the best Axy! Your advise is always SPOT ON.
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 11, 2010, 11:21:26 PM
...my original belt lasted 30,000 km...almost to the k....til it gave up the ghost...
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: zombie on February 12, 2010, 02:21:42 AM
You just reminded me... It's time to change my Avatar! HHHhmmmmm! Where can I get an idea?... Monkeys!!!
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Shaka on February 12, 2010, 03:20:12 AM
I think shaka likes the 4.5 gr rollers on his Ag.
I think that was a typo, you meant Wordslinger.  I'm running 9g Dr. Pulley's in my ZX50.  They work just fine, Next time I replace them I will go with 7.5g though.  I also run a Malossi Kevlar belt, and I did notice a difference right off the bat with the stock variator and clutch.  It seemed to accelerate harder.  I think this was possibly due to less stretch under load, and less slipping.  As for the variator, I think the main difference is going to be the ramping inside is different to give different a more progressive feel during acceleration.  I don't think the teflon coating really has any effect.  I have heard it wears off after awhile.  The larger face may also give you a bit more top speed.  The clutch bell probably won't make any noticeable difference.  The only thing is it may accelerate a little faster because it is most likely lighter, but probably not enough to notice.
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: zombie on February 12, 2010, 05:08:42 AM
Yeah as always. Jacka$$ me. I have a new monkey tho! His name is Px. Sorry about Hi=jacking. Anyone want a dogumppy?  They smell like Cinnamon...
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 12, 2010, 11:35:16 AM
Yeah as always. Jacka$$ me. I have a new monkey tho! His name is Px. Sorry about Hi=jacking. Anyone want a dogumppy?  They smell like Cinnamon...

..ok...what th hell is a dogumppy ???

 ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: zombie on February 12, 2010, 06:47:10 PM
I give up! Who's there?
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 13, 2010, 02:33:52 AM
so what should i get next i got the cdi cut it didn't add anything to my top speed  :( but the speedometer is hitting 50 down hill so that is a plus

so should i get a new variator,belt,clutch or up the jets?
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 13, 2010, 02:52:49 AM
...okay, here's what i found to work for me...

..though, i believe i may have a different carburetor, piston and rings than some other A50s in th' field...


..Malossi variator with 4.7 gr Leo Vince rollers...white "1000" malossi main torque drive spring..(helps maintain higher rpms during a slow-down, and shift's you into a better gear ratio up steep hills)...would like a "1500"...

..free-flow air filter with whatever jet keeps ur scoot running not lean...but almost a little bit lean...i thinks it's faster...

..i'd state my main jet size...but i ain't going to open that can of worms again...

..red +50 Leo Vince fly clutch springs.. for a revving good take-off...

..gotta have a drive belt in good condition...

..gotta have a GOOD set of tires with a high run speed rating...(there's a technical term for that)..my new Avons are ratd at 110 mph..

..gotta keep ur oil changed often, and on broken-in A50's, i'd recommend a good synthetic oil...(resists thermal breakdown better than dino-fluids)...

...keep you scoot's valves adjusted to .04mm on the intake and .03mm on th exhaust...

..that adjustment, and changing your oil often, are crucial to your scoot's overall performance and longevity...


peace


..just my own observations and experience...

 ;D
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 13, 2010, 03:03:37 AM
thanks im already running 5 gram rollers and i tried a stiffer torque spring and i wouldn't get any speed

i tried changing the clutch springs but could figure out how

also how do you know if you have it idled right?
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 13, 2010, 03:13:59 AM
thanks im already running 5 gram rollers and i tried a stiffer torque spring and i wouldn't get any speed

i tried changing the clutch springs but could figure out how

also how do you know if you have it idled right?


..your idle mixture only affects ur scoot...during idle and just off idle into acceleration...if ur scoot will set still...idling...without revving excessively high, or cuttin off, then it's probly ok....about 1.5 - 2.5 ccw rotation of the screw should be close..

..keep in mind that in colder weather, it's gonna idle a bit high till it warms up...it's the auto-choke function taking effect...

..5 gram rollers are pretty close to being optimum...again, it's according to your scoots build...there are a cpl of different "builds" of A50's...i ran 5.5gr for a long time...but i'd prefer 4.5 over my 4.7 gr...that's what imma get next...

..there is a link t the A50 service manual, that i posted in the "general" board...it will explain in detail how to change out ur clutch springs...it's a "must-have" for anyone nthat's going to mod or even just maintain their scoot...
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 13, 2010, 03:22:05 AM
yeah since he cut the cdi it feels like it wants to pull forward ever so slightly
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 13, 2010, 03:25:05 AM
...what other mods have you done??..other than cuttin the cdi?
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 13, 2010, 03:30:44 AM
thanks im already running 5 gram rollers and i tried a stiffer torque spring and i wouldn't get any speed
i tried changing the clutch springs but could figure out how

also how do you know if you have it idled right?


..that wouldn't really affect your top speed...just recovery from slowing down, and some..just after..initial take-off...it'll keep ur belt from slipping excessively...
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 13, 2010, 03:36:33 AM
well i got rid of the spacer in the clutch changed out the stock weights for 5 grams put a better belt on it had the mechanic re adjust the valves

yea i put the stiffer spring in it and at full throttle i could only get to 20mph on flat ground

although that was before i cut the cdi   could that have been the cause? i thought it was odd
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 13, 2010, 03:38:30 AM
...but my biggest increase in performance came after i swapped out the stock variator, for my malossi multivar...i think there may be a difference in either the pitch of the ramp plate, or the degrees of forward angle of the leading roller slots in the moving pulley...but i do know that i gained 7 mph after installing the malossi...
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 13, 2010, 03:44:14 AM
i looked it up and the spring i got was 1000rpm
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 13, 2010, 03:47:40 AM
..and, again, i can't stress enough the importance of a correct valve adjustment...

..my dealer told me....over the phone to my face that the gap should be 4 thousandths of an inch...  .004 inch

..while in fact, the correct, service manual specified (tried and true by yours truly) clearance is .04 mm...

Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 13, 2010, 03:50:35 AM
well i got rid of the spacer in the clutch changed out the stock weights for 5 grams put a better belt on it had the mechanic re adjust the valves

yea i put the stiffer spring in it and at full throttle i could only get to 20mph on flat ground

although that was before i cut the cdi   could that have been the cause? i thought it was odd

..if you gettin 50mph downhill, and all you've done is the bushing and the cdi, then i think you're right on track...yup...lol..
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 13, 2010, 03:53:57 AM
since I'm snowed in I will check the clearance .04mm for intake and you said something about the exhaust?
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 13, 2010, 03:58:12 AM
since I'm snowed in I will check the clearance .04mm for intake and you said something about the exhaust?

..yeah, the spec is .04mm on the exhaust...but i started adjusting my exhaust to .03

..seems to be a bit more peppy...

..but then, maybe the hundreth of a mm is just my imagination...
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 13, 2010, 04:00:51 AM
im getting a steady 40 mph on flat ground according to the speedo had someone follow me before i cut the cdi and i was getting 37mph on flat ground and 40mph downhill and the speedo would read 70kmph now its reading 80kmph so im guessing im getting 50 downhill
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 13, 2010, 04:02:12 AM
one thing that worries me is i run my A50 hard i clock 20+ miles a day every day
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 13, 2010, 04:05:04 AM
...the speedos are generally 5-15% optimistic....

..sounds like ur doin' ok for an A50....

..the 4Ts ain't gonna run like a 2-stroke....

..it takes longer to get them up to top speed, and recovery takes longer...

..however, the ride is sssmmmoooothhhe....... ;D
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 13, 2010, 04:07:21 AM
yea i already know when it says 40 im really going 37
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 13, 2010, 04:10:57 AM
one thing that worries me is i run my A50 hard i clock 20+ miles a day every day

..i bought my '08 a50 new, in december of 07...i have ridden it pretty much every day since...my commute is 35 miles round-trip, 6 and sometimes 7 days a week... 75% 2-lane 55mph roads...thus the LEDs and the need for increased speed...

..the key to longevity is thorough service and preventive maintenance....treat your scoot like she's your best girlfriend and she'll never let you down...

 ;D
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Shaka on February 13, 2010, 04:12:13 AM
Wow, I totally just typed a reply and it didn't post!  Here it goes again!  The main clutch spring can limit your top speed if your rollers are too light to overcome the resistance in the clutch pulleys.  The loss of speed may have also been caused by the restricted cdi which was not allowing the engine to spin the variator fast enough to close the variator.  You may want to try the "1000" main spring again with the cut cdi.  If you still have a loss of speed you need to go with heavier rollers.  The small clutch spring will also make a big difference in take off acceleration!  CVT tuning can be an art form!  It takes everything working in perfect harmony to get a screaming scoot!
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 13, 2010, 04:13:28 AM
oh i do

i layed it down once and that wont happen again
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 13, 2010, 04:16:50 AM
Wow, I totally just typed a reply and it didn't post!  Here it goes again!  The main clutch spring can limit your top speed if your rollers are too light to overcome the resistance in the clutch pulleys.  The loss of speed may have also been caused by the restricted cdi which was not allowing the engine to spin the variator fast enough to close the variator.  You may want to try the "1000" main spring again with the cut cdi.  If you still have a loss of speed you need to go with heavier rollers.  The small clutch spring will also make a big difference in take off acceleration!  CVT tuning can be an art form!  It takes everything working in perfect harmony to get a screaming scoot!

..wow...i think you followed the thread better than i did...

..but at 5 gr i don't think the rollers are too light...

..need another 24...

..can u say Bud Light!??
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 13, 2010, 04:24:42 AM
oh i do

i layed it down once and that wont happen again


..i got ran off the road twice...once, i had to bail in a gravel drive...luckily that was low speed, and my scoot only took on some cosmetic damage...
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Shaka on February 13, 2010, 04:28:35 AM
..wow...i think you followed the thread better than i did...

..but at 5 gr i don't think the rollers are too light...

..need another 24...

..can u say Bud Light!??
Haha!  That's what that 24 does!  No more drinking for me!  Although, playing with the scoot in the snow sounds kinda fun right about now!  Haven't had that opportunity before! ;D
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 13, 2010, 04:29:24 AM
yea i hit the street at about 25-30 mph
i got 3 scratches a broke turn signal and alot of road rash

as far as getting run off the road or close calls i have had a few of those
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 13, 2010, 04:29:46 AM
Haha!  That's what that 24 does!  No more drinking for me!  Although, playing with the scoot in the snow sounds kinda fun right about now!  Haven't had that opportunity before! ;D

..these avons kind don't mind the snow....
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 13, 2010, 04:53:39 AM
thanks for all the info but i have one last question (for now at least) i have asked the dealer i called/e-mailed kymco about it and even asked a few other owners what its the weight capacity for an A50?
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: zombie on February 13, 2010, 05:11:16 AM
That should be on a label on the frame. Might be on the goose neck or under the seat. Maybe in the battery compartment.    this site will have it     http://www.kymco.com/showroom/showroom_index.asp (http://www.kymco.com/showroom/showroom_index.asp)
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 14, 2010, 03:33:09 AM
OK found the manual you were talking about but it doesn't tell you how to change the clutch springs but it does tell me everything else i wanted to know

oh and in case anyone else was wondering 330lbs is the limit
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 14, 2010, 02:55:28 PM
found a video showing how to do it

Chinese scooter compression spring change 50 cc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxphUXeTwRY#normal)
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: zombie on February 14, 2010, 04:27:28 PM
Thanks for posting the link. That's how the forum works!
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Shaka on February 14, 2010, 05:26:01 PM
Nice video!  Not too sure about the music though! :D
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: Dark13 on February 15, 2010, 02:18:10 AM
yea i watched it with the sound off  :D

i just thought i would give back seeing as i asked so much from you guys if i find any other good vids or sites i will post them
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: wordslinger on February 18, 2010, 09:18:22 PM
...dang...never thot about applying the rear brake...

...there's that elephant again......
Title: Re: ok mods are done for now......or are they?
Post by: mikrron on March 01, 2010, 09:22:01 PM
you can mark the bolt or the nut (if i got the word right) that holds the clutch with a marker before loosing it. This helps you to tight it up aprox as it was before ;)