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Scooters - 125 to 300 => Xciting 250 => Topic started by: Forbes1964 on January 17, 2016, 08:18:29 AM

Title: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on January 17, 2016, 08:18:29 AM
I just purchased a 2009 Xciting with approximately 5300 miles on it. I've noticed that at 7500rpm (redline) my gps indicated speed on flat ground no wind is 62mph. Also, my top flat out is about 72mph  at around 8500rpm which is well above redline. Based on what others are saying, I was expecting somewhat higher. Acceleration is strong. My weight is 175 lbs. I was expecting to be able to cruise at 65mph at slightly BELOW redline. Am I being unrealistic? Or is there something wrong? I don't really know the history of this cycle prior to my purchasing it. Is there some maintenance needed that will bring my RPM below redline at 65mph?


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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: kymjongilco on January 17, 2016, 05:33:48 PM
Hi , Mine also started doing this last year , greatly improving pull-away but top speed dropped and so did the fuel consumption, Turned out to be quite simple just the roller weights worn out, mine started getting bad at around 12,000 miles but maybe yours had been used in the city more, On advice i bought a set of Dr pulley rollers 23x18  15G , these are great and the bike STILL had fast pull-away i never go much over 70 mph but the revs came down at that speed.
Here is the link to the ones i bought , they arrived in 8 days.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DR-PULLEY-ROLLERS-23x18-for-KYMCO-Bet-Win-euro-2-Dink-People-Xciting-250-15G-/181621483309?ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DR-PULLEY-ROLLERS-23x18-for-KYMCO-Bet-Win-euro-2-Dink-People-Xciting-250-15G-/181621483309?ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT)
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on January 17, 2016, 09:23:21 PM
Thank you sir. Your information most appreciated .


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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: xsel777 on January 18, 2016, 07:40:47 AM
It could also be the belt width, if that is below min spec, then it cannot reach top speed.

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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: kymjongilco on January 18, 2016, 03:11:28 PM
AH yes, I did change my belt at the same time, it didn't look worn but when i checked with a vernier against the new one it had narrowed a small amount, i guess this could have effected the top speed and made the rpms higher all round, but the Dr Pulley rollers kept the improved acceleration even with the new belt, the original rollers were clearly worn, The belt was around 55 usd+ shipping from Racing Planet , here is the link
http://www.racing-planet.co.uk/drive-bando-kymco-people-xciting-250cc-p-164851-1.html?backcPathco=3&cPath=2_2420#.Vp0AJSp94dU (http://www.racing-planet.co.uk/drive-bando-kymco-people-xciting-250cc-p-164851-1.html?backcPathco=3&cPath=2_2420#.Vp0AJSp94dU)
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on January 18, 2016, 06:13:22 PM
I have to take it back later this week for them to fix the speedometer ( that's why I was using the GPS to monitor speed.). They promised to take care of that at the time of purchase. I'll see if I can get them to install new rollers and check the belt at that time. If not, I'll look into the dr. Pulley rollers and replace the belt myself since I don't know it's age. Whenever it's done, I'll get back with you all.
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on January 31, 2016, 02:37:55 PM
I took it back to the place where I purchased it yesterday for them to check it. They checked the belt. And it was within specs. They stated that some of the rollers showed some signs of flattening but not that bad. But they replaced the rollers anyway since they already had it apart. It didn't change anything. Their head mechanic was not in. So they want me to bring it back when he is there.


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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on January 31, 2016, 02:47:29 PM
It pulls strongly even past redline. I let it go into dangerous territory until the rev limiter kicked in at 9000+ rpm . Again, my maximum GPS speed was 73 mph. At 7500 redline, I'm still only doing 62-63 mph. This was flat ground, no headwinds, and I weigh 170 lbs. ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS? I may install the dr. Pulley sliders later. But I believe it should run at least 70 before redline even factory equipped. Everything I've read says that this scooter is capable of approximately 80mph top speed for short distance. And should run 70 comfortably all day.


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Title: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on January 31, 2016, 02:48:18 PM
It could also be the belt width, if that is below min spec, then it cannot reach top speed.

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They said that the belt was within spec. I guess I'll just take it back when their head mechanic can look at it. Hopefully he'll find something.
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: de dee on February 04, 2016, 10:22:20 PM
to see what your tranny is doing, take the cover off of the tranny, so you can see the belt and pulley,  put the scoot on center stand, on solid ground ( cement )  and level,    start the motor and rev it up to 7 or 8,000 RPM, look at the belt and it should be at the top of the front drive pulley,  if not your belt could be to narrow for the pulley,   I had to shave 1mm. off of the pulley faces each side because the belts I got where not the right width,
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on February 05, 2016, 04:46:53 AM
Thanks de dee. I'll definitely do that if the mechanic can't find anything wrong.


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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Stig / Major Tom on February 05, 2016, 12:40:57 PM
You want to cruise at 70 on a 250 scooter?
?
Think you need a bigger bike.....for safety and to spare your wallet.
Stig
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Mr. Paul on February 05, 2016, 04:09:05 PM
I agree with Stig!!!  Just ride the scooter and enjoy it! IMHO it is a waste of good hard earned money to make a scooter perform better than it was designed to. The better option is to take that money you would have used on unecessary upgrades and repairs and put it towards that faster scooter in the future. Meanwhile enjoy riding the well built machine that you have. I have learned this the hard way!
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on February 05, 2016, 05:59:49 PM

I agree with Stig!!!  Just ride the scooter and enjoy it! IMHO it is a waste of good hard earned money to make a scooter perform better than it was designed to. The better option is to take that money you would have used on unecessary upgrades and repairs and put it towards that faster scooter in the future. Meanwhile enjoy riding the well built machine that you have. I have learned this the hard way!


If that is what it's designed to do, I'll be content with it. Between 60-65 is fine . That's what I was told that it could run for EXTENDED periods of time. Just didn't realize that it would be at redline.

Is it safe to run it at or very near redline (approx 62 mph) for extended periods of time? If not, what is the maximum RPM you all would recommend for extended cruising?

I'm an auto mechanic, and I'm used to an engine cruising well below redline with near redline being reserved for short maximum acceleration spurts. Also used to an engine running out of steam above redline. This thing will pull STRONGLY into the red zone.

Forgive my ignorance, this is my first two wheeled ANYTHING. Lol.
Thanks in advance for your response and advice.



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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on February 05, 2016, 06:08:26 PM
Curious: What speeds do you all usually ride? Again, trying to get a feel for what's reasonable and safe.


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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Mr. Paul on February 06, 2016, 02:49:31 AM
According to the specs I have seen online, the Kymco Xciting 250 achieves maximum horsepower at around 7500 rpm.  It should be safe to cruise at that level all day. Redline would have higher rpm than that. The main thing is to keep the oil changed religiously. I too have a long history of working on autos and it is still alarming to me the rpms these small engines are designed to handle. My People 150 loves to cruise at 7000 to 7500 rpm. That would have toasted many of my old v-8s! (Except my '70 Camaro with the 350 LT 1 engine.)
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on February 06, 2016, 03:45:24 PM

According to the specs I have seen online, the Kymco Xciting 250 achieves maximum horsepower at around 7500 rpm.  It should be safe to cruise at that level all day. Redline would have higher rpm than that. The main thing is to keep the oil changed religiously. I too have a long history of working on autos and it is still alarming to me the rpms these small engines are designed to handle. My People 150 loves to cruise at 7000 to 7500 rpm. That would have toasted many of my old v-8s! (Except my '70 Camaro with the 350 LT 1 engine.)

Thanks for the reassurance. I've noticed that redline on my tach is at 7500 . So it's reassuring to know it can actually run safety at that speed for more than a few minutes. Thanks again


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Title: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on February 09, 2016, 05:58:54 PM
I've decided to order some Dr. Pulley sliders just a couple of grams heavier than the rollers. I've accepted a 65 mph cruising speed as the maximum I'll do for an extended period of time. The mechanic at the place where I bought it told me that a good rule of thumb is if a scooter can comfortably maintain a speed on flat ground at 3/4 throttle with the temperature gauge not rising beyond its normal  position, it's safe on the engine to ride at that speed for extended periods of time. At 65 I have plenty of throttle left.

I'll try the sliders to see if they lower cruising Rpm's a bit without drastically affecting acceleration. If so, great! If not, I'll just put the originals back on and be happy. Either way, I don't plan on doing any other modifications than that.
Even Without any modifications I'm happy with the brisk acceleration all the way to where the rev limiter kicks in. As long as I don't negativity impact that too much, I'll be happy.

Again, thanks guys. Until you hear from me again, stay safe. And Be blessed


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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on February 09, 2016, 06:01:48 PM
I'll let you all know how it works out. If it doesn't help or has an adverse effect, I'll humbly accept an "I told you so" from Stig and Mr. Paul. I won't be the first time I as wrong by overriding sound advice. Lol.


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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Mr. Paul on February 09, 2016, 10:44:57 PM
Hey buddy, Mr. Paul can be wrong too. Hope everything goes great!
Title: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on February 14, 2016, 12:31:41 AM
UPDATE:
Well, I installed the Dr. Pulley sliders today. I went with 23 grams, since that was the smallest increase over the original 20.5 gram factory they had. I'm pleased with the results. Very little, if any loss of acceleration from a standstill. Perhaps a slight loss at the 50-60 range. Increase in top speed from GPS indicated 73 to 78 mph before the rev limiter kicks in. ( Don't intend to ride it that fast regularly. But nice to be able to do so if necessary to get out of the way.) But The MAIN EFFECT is  lower engine rpm's when cruising at 60+. My Rpm's at 65 reduced from nearly  8000 down to approximately 7500. So engine seems to be more relaxed. Seems like I could cruise at 70 if I wanted to.
 
It still holds the speed on hills. So far, I'm pleased. I don't think I'll do any more modifications. I'll let well enough do. If I want to go faster, I'll buy a bigger engined scooter. But for now, a maximum cruising speed of 65-70 is plenty enough.
Before the change, I was getting approximately 60 mpg with nearly all 60-65 mph riding. If it stays the same, I'll be perfectly happy. So far, so good.

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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Mr. Paul on February 14, 2016, 12:55:05 AM
Great news Forbes! I am glad you got it worked out. Enjoy the ride sir.
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on February 14, 2016, 11:00:12 PM
I intend to ride it to work tomorrow (if it's not too cold )to test it out on the extended ride. Also, thanks again for the reality check. Like with automobiles, some things can only be modified so much before running into big  money and/or causing durability issues. I know that keeping it within its intended limitations will make for an enjoyable ownership experience.


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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Stig / Major Tom on February 20, 2016, 02:59:51 PM
I intend to ride it to work tomorrow (if it's not too cold )to test it out on the extended ride. Also, thanks again for the reality check. Like with automobiles, some things can only be modified so much before running into big  money and/or causing durability issues. I know that keeping it within its intended limitations will make for an enjoyable ownership experience.


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Glad you're happy with your scooter.
When I mentioned bigger scooter - I meant more cc's, but also longer wheelbase and more weight - for 70mph cruising.
 A dancing lighweight, short-wheelbased scooter is less secure feeling when mixing with winds & cars & trucks on the interstate..than is a longer, heavier bike. ("dancing"?, yeah - small, lightweight scooters react much more harshly to pavement cracks, tar strips, pot holes, debris on the highway)
But, to each his own.
Stig
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on February 20, 2016, 07:27:22 PM

Glad you're happy with your scooter.
When I mentioned bigger scooter - I meant more cc's, but also longer wheelbase and more weight - for 70mph cruising.
 A dancing lighweight, short-wheelbased scooter is less secure feeling when mixing with winds & cars & trucks on the interstate..than is a longer, heavier bike. ("dancing"?, yeah - small, lightweight scooters react much more harshly to pavement cracks, tar strips, pot holes, debris on the highway)
But, to each his own.
Stig

I guess the fact that I've never owned a scooter before and have nothing to compare it with my s to my advantage. Lol. I read that the Xciting was less stable at 75+ . But mine seems fine at 65-70. I only want to do 75 + to get out of the way if necessary.

But as far as scooters go, the Xciting has a comparatively long wheelbase. Also, I've noticed that the 14 inch rears and 15 inch front seem larger than most except for the people and the Sym city.

I think I got lucky. I knew absolutely NOTHING about scooters other than the fact that I wanted something with fuel injection. And none of the Chinese scooters that I saw advertised had it. The Sym city 300 was not in good shape. And it was a little more cramped than I wanted. So I ended up getting the 250 Xciting. And the only negative thing I've read is that it has less power than desirable. Some have told me that the 400+ pound weight is an advantage. I'm certain that are right. I rode home Monday in gusty winds, and a lighter weight scooter would have been a real handful.


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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Mr. Paul on February 21, 2016, 01:19:18 AM
Hey Forbes. I own a Kymco People 150 that I ride every day commuting to work 15 miles one way and running errands on my off days. I rarely drive my car. The 150 loves to cruise at 45 to 50 so it is perfect for the roads I ride on.  My next bike will be a 250, probably a Honda Helix. The 250 size for me, seems to be the right balance of economy, performance, and ease of maintenance. I think you did really well getting the scooter you did. Maybe soon I will be up there running with you big boys and your 250s ;-)
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on April 09, 2016, 08:08:41 PM
Well, here's a follow up. My belt broke, and I replaced it TODAY. It seems as if it was the belt the whole time. Now my 65mph rpm is about 7000. And at 7500 redline, I'm going about 70-72. I might even install the dr pulley sliders in the original weight and see if what happens. But as of now, I COULD cruise at anything below 70 and stay BELOW redline. By the way, my top speed now is 80+. I guess the old belt may have been stretched or whatever.


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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on April 20, 2016, 03:46:58 AM
I agree with Stig!!!  Just ride the scooter and enjoy it! IMHO it is a waste of good hard earned money to make a scooter perform better than it was designed to. The better option is to take that money you would have used on unecessary upgrades and repairs and put it towards that faster scooter in the future. Meanwhile enjoy riding the well built machine that you have. I have learned this the hard way!

Final resolution:
By and large Mr. Paul and Stig were right. Thankfully I only spent the price of the Dr pulley sliders. 

But here is a step by step journey:

1. Original rollers: 20.5g. Start- top speed 72 mph @ rev limited ~ 8500 rpm or so. Rpm at 65 around 8000 (past redline) . Engine feels over worked @ 65 mph

2. Installed 23g dr pulley sliders: top speed 76-78 mph @ rev limited rpm's. Rpm's @ 65mph ~ 7500 rpm's ( indicated redline) . Acceleration somewhat slower. Engine feels over worked at 65 mph

3. Replaced broken belt. Still 23g sliders. Top speed 81-82 mph @ rev limited speed. Rpm's @ 65 mph ~ 7100 rpm's. (Below redline) . But acceleration even  slower. Engine feels relaxed at 65 mph

4. Replaced 3 of the sliders with ORIGINAL 20.5 gram sliders, giving an average weight of 21.75g. Top speed 78-79 mph @ ~ 8100 rpm's. Rpm's @65mph ~ 7100 rpm. (Below redline) . Engine feels relaxed @65mph.

CONCLUSION: The greatest improvement occurred and the BEST overall BALACE between MY desired cruising speed (65 mph) @ reasonable Rpm , Top speed consistent with what others are getting without engine rpm going into the stratosphere, and good acceleration occurred when a NEW belt was installed and the variator weights just SLIGHTLY above FACTORY weights.

In addition, my mechanic said that the heavier SLIDERS, unless properly matched with a variator, spring, and rear pulley tends to shorten belt life significantly when driven HARD as I do because the variator closes more than originally designed causing the belt to be strained if the rear pulley limits its travel. He also stated that  most people use LIGHTER sliders for better acceleration.but the top speed is usually preserved.

Long story. If the scooter does not perform as designed, SOMETHING is wrong. So save your money and simply make sure the ORIGINAL equipment is working properly.

Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on April 20, 2016, 03:49:04 AM
By the way, my fuel mileage improve from a range of 55-62 before the new belt to a range of 61-68mpg after the new belt.


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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: xsel777 on April 20, 2016, 06:54:20 AM
Forbes1964, that fuel consumption improvement is great news mate.

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Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Mr. Paul on April 22, 2016, 10:57:06 PM
Great info!
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Mr. Paul on April 23, 2016, 12:15:44 PM
I would be curious how it would perform with the new belt and original weight slider.  Maybe you tried it and I just missed it. 
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Forbes1964 on April 23, 2016, 03:06:09 PM
I would be curious how it would perform with the new belt and original weight slider.  Maybe you tried it and I just missed it.

No, I haven't tried that . My scooter mechanic stated that because sliders push the variator closer together, it's possible that the belt can be strained if the rear pulley has run out of travel. He says that since I travel mostly at high speeds, original weight  sliders  MAY strain the belt more. I don't want to take that chance.

I believe that since I'm now using 3 rollers along with the sliders, any advantage OR disadvantage of sliders have been cancelled.

I guess that's a LONG way of saying, I'm leaving well enough alone. 😀👍🏾
Title: Re: Redlining too soon?
Post by: Mr. Paul on April 25, 2016, 01:16:06 AM
Thanks Forbes. If it aint broke, dont fix it then! I have three 14 gram sliders and three 13 gram sliders on my People 150. It works now and I am trying my best to leave it alone!