KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Super 9 => Topic started by: TheAmishSasquatch on May 21, 2015, 12:41:19 PM
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Im looking to upgrade the carb in my 07 AC. Ive narrowed my options to two possible offerings from Dellorto. The first being a manual choke PHBG 19 DS black and the other being a PHVA12 19mm auto-choke. My questions are what are the pros and cons to converting to manual choke or staying with an auto-choke system. I would also be interested in any reviews of either of these carbs from those who my have used/are using them. Lastly do either of these carburetors have provisions for oil injection or will I have to start adding oil to the gas tank? Thanks in advance.
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I was just told the day before yesterday to get the black 19mm. He said it's not too hard to dial in and that the black coating has less resistance for the fuel to flow. The last part may be bs, but it sounds good lol. I'm trying to decide if that'll be my next upgrade or not. I'm already tired of trying to get this arreche carb dialed in.
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Great! Thats promising. I think the fellow you spoke too might be refering to the fact that black coating possibly being smoother then the normal uncoated metal, possibly provinding a smoother flow. FYI Too smooth of a surface is actually a bad thing as there is not enough turbulant surface for the fuel vapor to attomize fully and forms micro sied droplets. I highly doubt this would be the case with these carbs. Im just passing on some knowledge here ;)
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I have the black 19mm Dell on my zuma and it kicks ass. BTW the inside isn't black, it's just painted back on the outside. But title has quick release main jet cap, and quick release slide cap making for easy adjustment. It takes funny jets so make sure to order some from jetsrus.com. Also read the moped wiki about tuning, search "phbg tuning" on Google.
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Oh ps manual choke works great, you can use it to help dial in the carb. If you put the choke on and the bike runs faster then it's lean.
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Sounds great. The link you give was nice but I didnt see a listing for Dellorto carb jets :\
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Sounds great. The link you give was nice but I didnt see a listing for Dellorto carb jets :\
Shoot man, sorry about that. I forgot I got my Dellorto Jets from Drowsports.com they sell multi packs like 70-98. Sorry about that!
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Cool site. Thanks!
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Go for the malossi phbg carb kit comes with everything (including cArb) for dellorto 19mm phbg cart kit and jetting worked great for stock airbox. Plus jets are very easy to find if your going for an open air filter. Unfortunately it isn't painted :( but still looks nasty ;)
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Thanks for the reply. Would you recommend stock air box or using a foam/cloth type pod filter? Does anyone here have a velocity stack installed? I was thinking of using one of those instead.
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Thanks for the reply. Would you recommend stock air box or using a foam/cloth type pod filter? Does anyone here have a velocity stack installed? I was thinking of using one of those instead.
You'll want to run with the stock airbox, it'll run better.
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Ya, but the uni I got on mine makes it sound like a beast. I've gotten many complements and the uni filter holds up in the rain, looks nice and are pretty common on super 9's. However, the airbox is quieter and if modded can allow the same amount of air as the uni
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I kinda want to open the box up more, but I don't want to ruin something like that. It does sound boss with an open filter. It's a daily struggle to keep from getting one lol
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I kinda want to open the box up more, but I don't want to ruin something like that. It does sound boss with an open filter. It's a daily struggle to keep from getting one lol
It does sound cooler I'll give you that. But all you'll be doing is going with a 10-15% larger main jet and making a lot of noise and getting less MPG for the same performance as a slightly opened up stock airbox.
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I'm already getting rather lousy mileage. What exactly would you recommend to open up the box more? I've already opened it up more under the body where the snorkel connected. I'd like to keep it as waterproof as possible. I ride it in every condition
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I opened the fake intake scoop on the air box cover with a dremmel as a real intake. Im running a stock closed one atm for tuning baseline reasons. If anyone wants to buy my modded cover pm me.
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Oh I deleted the snorkel a while ago and never had a water issue with water. The hose that goes from airbox to the Venturi of the carb is usually very small and causes a great restriction so people usually replace that with a 20mm radiator hose. And in support of the uni, it looks way sicker than the airbox too. Took the scoot in pouring rain and didn't even have a slight issue after parking in the rain.
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Cool to know, any pics of said mods?
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Ya. I didn't mess with the airbox but this is what that person did
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Out of all the things I "know", I still feel like I don't know how the bigger carb or more airflow would affect my current performance beside mileage drop. I feel like with what I have that it real couldn't do much more. Maybe it drives up the rpms faster?
I feel daft...
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Thanks for the pic, it cleared things up a bit. From your description i had invisioned no air box, a 8in piece of black radiator hose with a cone filter at the end; making it look as if there was a big black shlong hangging off your carb :o
I guess a picture is worth a thousand words ::)
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Out of all the things I "know", I still feel like I don't know how the bigger carb or more airflow would affect my current performance beside mileage drop. I feel like with what I have that it real couldn't do much more. Maybe it drives up the rpms faster?
I feel daft...
A larger carb will significantly increase power output. Too large will suffer on the low end, 19mm is a good balance between large and TOO large.
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Thanks, that's what I figured would be the answer. Not sure why I can't wrap my head around that. So, if not too large it would help in low end and top end? I could use a touch more low end...
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Thanks, that's what I figured would be the answer. Not sure why I can't wrap my head around that. So, if not too large it would help in low end and top end? I could use a touch more low end...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect)
read this. It's a counter-intuitive thing to wrap your head around. A larger diameter will flow MORE but at slower airspeed, a smaller "venturi" will flow less but at higher airspeed, and carbs rely on airspeed more than the amount of air flowing in. So carb size is a balance between AMOUNT of air, and keeping that air moving fast. The larger the engine, the more "suction" will speed up airflow letting you use a larger carb. 19mm will add acceleration and top speed without sacrificing any performance, that is once you get it tuned good. I have like 5 needs, 3 slides, 20 main jets, and 5 idle jets for my Dell' 19mm "black" to get it tuned just right. A matched intake and 19mm carb will wake ANY bike up.
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So I think Ill pull the trigger on the Dellorto PHGB, anyone have experiance with the 17.5mm version? Im leaning towards 17.5-18mm as our scoots are only rated at a little over 4hp. Im worried that 19mm will be just slightly over sized and any potential hp gains to be had would be negated due to the out of spec size per available hp and displacment. My goal is to fine tune the carb for max performance and not waste time having to de-tune it to optimal condition due to too large of venturi.
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So I think Ill pull the trigger on the Dellorto PHGB, anyone have experiance with the 17.5mm version? Im leaning towards 17.5-18mm as our scoots are only rated at a little over 4hp. Im worried that 19mm will be just slightly over sized and any potential hp gains to be had would be negated due to the out of spec size per available hp and displacment. My goal is to fine tune the carb for max performance and not waste time having to de-tune it to optimal condition due to too large of venturi.
Do you think you'll ever want to go to 70cc? If so you will regret not getting the 19mm. My 19mm feels awesome on my zuma and it's still 49cc stock cylinder. Get the dellorto black 19mm, thing kicks ass.
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How rich of main are you running and what needle position? Pilot jet/air corrector?
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One thing with the PHBG dellortor, you'll want to get the AU nosle, because the carb comes out of the box setup for 4t. https://www.treatland.tv/dellorto-PHBG-atomizer-AU-p/dellorto-phbg-atomizer-au.htm (https://www.treatland.tv/dellorto-PHBG-atomizer-AU-p/dellorto-phbg-atomizer-au.htm)
I am running an 88 main and 38 idle, that should get you close but the zuma takes funny jetting. Get a #9 and #12 needle, they work the best for me. I think the black comes with a #7 needle that is hard to tune with. Treatland has everything you'll need for that carb. Highly suggest getting a larger intake to match the carb also, not sure where to get that for the Kymco engine, but they are out there.
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I still use the stock mani with my dellorto. Is there really a noticeable difference with a bigger intake?
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Thanks for the link, I will look into that. I have a set of pilot jets coming in for the PB 14 as I know for fact my bike ran like a raped ape when it was in tune. Ill try tinkering with that and it will be my carb that goes with the bike if I ever sell it, keeping the Dellorto for my self :)
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Sell your super 9?!?!? :o
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Possibly trade. I have a hard one for 2nd gen Aprilia SR50's. The S9 was my 2nd choice. Ill probably just havel both :p
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Ya aprillas are nice. But if you can find one, for a good price that's in good condition lucky you! I had a hard enough time getting my super 9.
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Well, today I finally did it. I just ordered a 19mm black edition Dellorto PHBG. I figure it should be here in a month orPHBG. Ill update once it arrives. Thanks for the help everyone.
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Well, today I finally did it. I just ordered a 19mm black edition Dellorto PHBG. I figure it should be here in a month orPHBG. Ill update once it arrives. Thanks for the help everyone.
Let me know if you need any help setting it up.
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congratz ;)
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I just messaged zombie, but Im sort of in a hurry. Whays the best plug to run? I already have a ngk bpre8 <? Timing is advanced slightly, going to use aftermarket CDI, larger carb and probably a velocity stack on the carb. Thanks
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Sorry for my impatience earlier, group. I was out and about and was hoping to get the spark plug today because rain is in the forcast for tomorrow and I don't take the bike out in the rain. Still would like to here opinions on plugs please. Thanks
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Sorry for my impatience earlier, group. I was out and about and was hoping to get the spark plug today because rain is in the forcast for tomorrow and I don't take the bike out in the rain. Still would like to here opinions on plugs please. Thanks
Br8hsa if it's ac
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Thanks Betting. Is that the standard NGK upgradNGor is that one of the other options? I currently have an NGK in the bike (unsure which). Whats you take on iridium?
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Get the standard ngk plug imo works best. Using an iridium or multi conductor plug or what have u is a waste of $.
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Get the standard ngk plug imo works best. Using an iridium or multi conductor plug or what have u is a waste of $.
Agreed, especially in a2t where they use up plugs fast anyway. The only advantage of iridium is it lasts longer, regular copper core actually is a better conductor.
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Thanks fellas. My plug is only about 4 months old (I know that's irrelevant as a plug can foul in under 5 mins) just seems like I should be getting better ignition and economy. Any of you familiar with the Ford coil upgrade? I'm considering doing it.
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My LC had bpr7hsa in it when I got I it, went to an 8, then tried a 9 after my kit. I fouled out the Nine, went back with the eight and have been on it since.
I used an iridium for a good while. I had my self thinking it provided a solid and better starting.
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Ya. I didn't mess with the airbox but this is what that person did
Look what I did! Modded the airbox! $2.99 a foot at Lowe's. Very simple. Since it fit well I'm going to open up the hole for the snorkel intake and use the same tubing to run up under the body. Bonus, it matches the paint scheme perfectly!
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Any zoomed out pics? I was thinking of using blue or yellow Samco<? Silicone radiator hose, or orange aircraft ducting (used for carb ice)
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I'll take one zoomed out, but you can barely see it from behind the airbox
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So my PHBG arrived a couple days ago. As I was affraid, its a clone. Seems really well made though and the bottom opens for fast jet changes just like the authentic Dellorto. Im trying to track down an inexpensive manual choke but all the PHBG specific chokes ive found are close to $30 after shipping. I found a Keihin choke that looks identical for $15 so Ill try that. Anyone know where I can get an strait adapter that mounts to my stock manifold ?
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Shoulda got the malossi kit, but you could try dellorto direct they have tons of phbg parts
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I originally looked at Dellorto direct but after shipping the choke pull is like $30 and waay too much money for a piece of plastic and a spring.