KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Super 9 => Topic started by: Triesandluth on April 25, 2015, 01:16:22 AM
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I've been running an after market variator for some time now. It was inexpensive, which resulted in it premature deterioration.
I just picked up some malossi guide clips to replace the broken ones on the stock variator. Those clips were the main reason I got the aftermarket "performance" variator.
After install, my rpms remain constant again and there's no lack of top speed. In actuality, the consistency allowed me to put my slightly heavier sliders back in, with the possibility for an even higher top speed. The only thing that may be different, hard to tell from my test run, is the different angle of the ramps on the stock may have slightly reduced my acceleration (that was even before increasing the slider weights, which I think match my toque spring better).
Anyways, once again, stock parts are proving to be awesome.
My question is has anyone found an oversized variator that is compatible, from a reliable source, and of good quality? I need to make sure it is either for 2stroke or of name brand quality to avoid it getting destroyed quickly.
I found one but it says it fits the Jog 90. I don't believe their the same.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00PCRI044/ref=mp_s_a_1_34?qid=1429533167&sr=8-34&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70&keywords=2+stroke+variator&dpPl=1&dpID=41eGKuIyJ8L&ref=plSrch#productDescription_secondary_view_pageState_1429533195528
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O looks like ur in the same boat as me
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Malossi or Dr. Pulley, the only two i trust.
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Have you checked/ measured your variator for the following parameters in the description you linked to: "Pulley O.D. 94mm I.D. 21mm Crank Diameter. 16mm Ramp Plate. 15 tooth 16mm". I think the Yamaha Jog is same style engine as ours, Minarelli. Just have to make sure yours is 15 tooth spline on 16mm crankshaft, that 94mm pulley OD fits inside your CVT case (may have to grind a little here and there), and boss fits over 21mm crank LOLs. I haven't measured, but don't think it fits.
I ran into the same issue and ended up buying Malossi variator 519988. I talked with a scooter store rep and he said I would be happy with the Malossi, that the Malossi was indeed a over range variator like the Dr Pulley. After I talked with him and reflected, I wasn't real sure about just what I was told, so I ordered the Malossi because it's supposed to fit.
Another thought, I am not sure your starter will work with this puppy, where are the teeth to engage the starter? I know racing scooters don't have starters, they use the outside diameter of the pulley for more over range/ higher gear. Have to use a remote starter to turn the crankshaft nut to get it started? Probably don't want to go there, expensive electric starter with bendix and battery needed. Plus probably need special nut on the end of the crank. Cheers
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If $'s no object, this is what you need, as I recall B&L said he has this for his Zuma, but not available for Kymco.
http://www.amazon.com/Malossi-6112811-M6112811-Transmission-Scooter/dp/B00BWSFEHI/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1431535941&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=maLOSSI+519988 (http://www.amazon.com/Malossi-6112811-M6112811-Transmission-Scooter/dp/B00BWSFEHI/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1431535941&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=maLOSSI+519988)
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Minarelli and Kymco variator setups are 100% different. Mina. has splines down the whole shaft, kymco only splined on the end. I have a 2001 Zuma, almost exact engine in the JOG, same variator at least. The bolt on Malossi variator looks like it does not come with the outer pulley, so you should be able to retain the electric start (it hooks on the outer teeth of the pulley). And kick start is the same way. Malossi makes GREAT stuff, and everything I have purchased from them bolts right on the way it was designed. I got a Polini variator for my Zuma before I got the MHR overrange and it SUCKED, needed modification to work right, and still didn't work right after that. I had to grind a lot of aluminum away to fit the overrange but after that it works really good. It's too bad they don't make that for the Kymco engine.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e148/zerosk8erfreak15/WP_20141115_0131.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/zerosk8erfreak15/media/WP_20141115_0131.jpg.html)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e148/zerosk8erfreak15/temporary-3.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/zerosk8erfreak15/media/temporary-3.jpg.html)
Look how much larger the rear pulley is!!!!!
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e148/zerosk8erfreak15/WP_20141115_0051.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/zerosk8erfreak15/media/WP_20141115_0051.jpg.html)
I did have to remove the electric starter for this kit to work but it was 100% worth it.
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B&L, how you start this baby?
Tries, have you looked at Malossi torque driver? I think maybe next step for me, supposed to eliminate drop in revs as the scooter gains speed. The OEM torque driver has a dog leg groove, gives 2 speed shift effect good for poky street scooter I guess (going from class to class at college, etc). The Malossi has straight cut groove. B&L says works great, consistant revs from bottom to top of speed range.
Too bad no kit like Zuma 50, expensive to buy piecemeal. I didn't consider the torque driver when I bought the variator because of the cost, but now after more knowledge, think I probably should have gotten that too. I knew when I got 50cc 2T it was going to be like this, spending $'s to make go like 150cc 4T that you could buy for less $'s, but more fun. Actually, when I go to 150cc 4T will probably be a Honda PCX125 or 150 so I am probably saving $'s with 50 compared to that one. Cheers
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B&L, how you start this baby?
Tries, have you looked at Malossi torque driver? I think maybe next step for me, supposed to eliminate drop in revs as the scooter gains speed. The OEM torque driver has a dog leg groove, gives 2 speed shift effect good for poky street scooter I guess (going from class to class at college, etc). The Malossi has straight cut groove. B&L says works great, consistant revs from bottom to top of speed range.
Too bad no kit like Zuma 50, expensive to buy piecemeal. I didn't consider the torque driver when I bought the variator because of the cost, but now after more knowledge, think I probably should have gotten that too. I knew when I got 50cc 2T it was going to be like this, spending $'s to make go like 150cc 4T that you could buy for less $'s, but more fun. Actually, when I go to 150cc 4T will probably be a Honda PCX125 or 150 so I am probably saving $'s with 50 compared to that one. Cheers
I have the kick starter fully functional, and don't mind using it at all on this little bike, makes you look like a man! The pulley won't be oversize unless it says "overrange" and I don't think they even make an overrange rear pulley for the Kymco engines. The Malossi rear pulley would make an EPIC upgrade.
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Have any of you guys used the malossi final drive set? Unfortunately it's unavailable but woulda helped with top end. Oh btw. I heard that the dr. Pulley variator doesn't fit without grinding or the cvt cover or something, and is there any variator i can use with the electric start? My kick start never seems to work right
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Have any of you guys used the malossi final drive set? Unfortunately it's unavailable but woulda helped with top end. Oh btw. I heard that the dr. Pulley variator doesn't fit without grinding or the cvt cover or something, and is there any variator i can use with the electric start? My kick start never seems to work right
I can't say 100% for sure, but most of the variator "kits" will work just like stock, electric start, kick start no grinding the case etc.
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Are you getting top speed or better pick-up
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Are you getting top speed or better pick-up
Who?
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makes you look like a man!
lol. Good tip. I will start kicking it when girls are around. 8)
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http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=13995.msg139076#msg139076 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=13995.msg139076#msg139076)
Got this for sale too guys, cheap upgrade. I'm open to offers
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Minarelli and Kymco variator setups are 100% different. Mina. has splines down the whole shaft, kymco only splined on the end. I have a 2001 Zuma, almost exact engine in the JOG, same variator at least. The bolt on Malossi variator looks like it does not come with the outer pulley, so you should be able to retain the electric start (it hooks on the outer teeth of the pulley). And kick start is the same way. Malossi makes GREAT stuff, and everything I have purchased from them bolts right on the way it was designed. I got a Polini variator for my Zuma before I got the MHR overrange and it SUCKED, needed modification to work right, and still didn't work right after that. I had to grind a lot of aluminum away to fit the overrange but after that it works really good. It's too bad they don't make that for the Kymco engine.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e148/zerosk8erfreak15/WP_20141115_0131.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/zerosk8erfreak15/media/WP_20141115_0131.jpg.html)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e148/zerosk8erfreak15/temporary-3.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/zerosk8erfreak15/media/temporary-3.jpg.html)
Look how much larger the rear pulley is!!!!!
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e148/zerosk8erfreak15/WP_20141115_0051.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/zerosk8erfreak15/media/WP_20141115_0051.jpg.html)
I did have to remove the electric starter for this kit to work but it was 100% worth it.
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I'm personally looking for a better acceleration without dampening the top end, and gear shifting I think happens too early, things done shifting at like 30mph and I'm usually cruisin at a good 50-60 so whatever could fix that. I figured the oversized variator might fit and I think I gotta readjust my sliders or rollers or something and a slightly heavier clutch spring than stock just for a better take off
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Btw will an oversize variator increase top end as well? If so it may be worth the electric start delete
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Possibly thinking about this but yet I've never heard of a super 9 four stroke :P seems pretty nice tho. Love my malossi http://www.amazon.com/Malossi-5113790-M5113790-Variator-Multivar/dp/B0057X5PLE (http://www.amazon.com/Malossi-5113790-M5113790-Variator-Multivar/dp/B0057X5PLE)
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Scoot, I think you want Malossi 519988. I wonder why they include 9gr rollers?, 4T kit apparently has 6gr rollers? Search the web for your best deal, below is an example, amazon sells.
http://www.amazon.com/Malossi-51-9988-Variator-2-Stroke/dp/B0058BNFIK/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1431612117&sr=1-1&keywords=malossi+519988 (http://www.amazon.com/Malossi-51-9988-Variator-2-Stroke/dp/B0058BNFIK/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1431612117&sr=1-1&keywords=malossi+519988)
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Ok thanks i have to check that one out
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http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=13995.msg139076#msg139076 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=13995.msg139076#msg139076)
Got this for sale too guys, cheap upgrade. I'm open to offers
I may want to take you up on this. My clutch is the stock one, and I'm nearing 21000 kms. I've definitely put it through some hell, but it's still functioning well, I believe. Lemme check my funds for vacation first.
Sorry, I lost this thread and just found all the action.
My electric start is already at the point of not working, not interested enough to try to fix it. Brand new battery and it still acts too weak to turn over well. I just do like b&l says and kick it. One kick every time. Makes me feel in control, lol.
I'm still interested in finding something larger, variator at least. I'm not looking into $350 for the full front and rear malossi kit. Not yet anyways...
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I may want to take you up on this. My clutch is the stock one, and I'm nearing 21000 kms. I've definitely put it through some hell, but it's still functioning well, I believe. Lemme check my funds for vacation first.
Sorry, I lost this thread and just found all the action.
My electric start is already at the point of not working, not interested enough to try to fix it. Brand new battery and it still acts too weak to turn over well. I just do like b&l says and kick it. One kick every time. Makes me feel in control, lol.
I'm still interested in finding something larger, variator at least. I'm not looking into $350 for the full front and rear malossi kit. Not yet anyways...
Let me know, and I'll go give it to the post office.
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I always use kick starter, too. Electric starter is just something to wear out and runs down the battery. I have used it a few to trouble shoot the engine, handy for that sometimes. These little 50 engines are too easy.
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Let me know, and I'll go give it to the post office.
Alright, sold. I'm pming you now.
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KEEP US UP-DATED ON YOUR UPGRADE :D
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Will do. You can't keep me quiet. A mod would have to boot me ha ha ha.
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I think all my super 9 needs is a manual transmission :P
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Btw that malossi kit says it's for an ac, but ac n lc cvt are the same rite?
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Btw that malossi kit says it's for an ac, but ac n lc cvt are the same rite?
I'm pretty sure they take the same variator, not 100% on that tho.
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Alright I'll give it a try, thanks
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If you look around on web, I think you will find Malosssi 519988 kit listed as fitting Super 9 LC too. Some listings show it, some don't, but I think it fits. I have Super 9 LC and I plan on ordering this kit too. I already have it for my People 50 2T and really like it. I found the white torque spring didn't work, but the 9gr rollers were right on with the OEM torque spring installed.
Count the number of coils on the white spring when you get your kit and compare it to the OEM torque spring you take out. If like mine, the white spring has more coils and is longer than the OEM. I installed it and it was way too strong, engine rev'd to the moon and I was going maybe 30mph top speed. I think Malossi packaged the white spring wrong. There is a shorter white spring Malossi makes, but if like my kit, you don't get it, so you have to do a work around. Cheers
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Now that I've received the delta clutch, thanks b&l, I'm probably going to stick to buying the malossi variator, unless I hear of a solid sure overrange one, or one that fits but isn't for the s9
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Ya, I'll get on that. Amazon isn't too bad with returns either I'm quite sure. I guess I'll try getting a torque spring assortment or something. Does the delta clutch make a difference?
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I don't want to say no, but with the set up I have it at right now, there's not a huge difference. I still have a bit of tuning to go though.
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MAN, That seems like a lot of work to get it tuned
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Let's just say that I've gotten really quick at disassembling and reassembling the cvt. And it's all part of the fun to me. It's my hobby! And the satisfaction of it finally being right feels great.
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SOUNDS GREAT...AS LONG AS IT'S FUN THEN IT'S NOT WORK :) :) :)
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Haha ya probably not as bad as carb tuning. Wish there was an external way to swap jets :P
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That would be amazing. B&l talked about the black one having quick release at least
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That would be amazing. B&l talked about the black one having quick release at least
Yeah it's got a large cap under the float bowl for quick swap of main jets. Most "racing" carbs have this.
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That would be great but I guess that set-up is not made for the average joe
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My malossi carb kit has a plastic bowl no cap not even a drain :( I gotta loosen up the clamp flip the carb unscrew bowl, pour gas on my hands swap jet n put bowl back on :/ there's been a few times I've forgotten to put the fuel line back on. Good news is the variator kit is comin in tomarrow
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Lemme know how that works for you, if there's a solid difference. I'm still asking around for a larger variator, but no results yet.
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Well, clutch bell turned a bluish purple so I think I'm gonna have to replace that soon. But, after a quick rip this morning I noticed a significant power increase. Now instead of shifting instantaneously on takeoff, I still stay in the powerband when going 50+. It feels like I'm going downhill on the straightaways and as far as i know hasnt effected, if not increased the top end. Haven't tried out the spring but I think my current setup is mint
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If aint cracked or worn theres no point in changing the bell!
Use that $ on gas for the scoot or beer for the owner heheh
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Hahaha, true, I'll ride her till she dies, but I meant to say replace the actual clutch. I donnt know if the "performance" clutches even make a difference but idk. I'll just remember that if one day it seems like the engine is hittin 10k and I'm not going anywhere. Ill do the Kevlar belt when I do my clutch too. Still got the 2005 belt with a nice 6000km
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Hahaha, true, I'll ride her till she dies, but I meant to say replace the actual clutch. I donnt know if the "performance" clutches even make a difference but idk. I'll just remember that if one day it seems like the engine is hittin 10k and I'm not going anywhere. Ill do the Kevlar belt when I do my clutch too. Still got the 2005 belt with a nice 6000km
No expert on belts - but have read a few cautions on Kevlar belts and what they do when they let go (Big Way). Also have read that the stock Kymco brand belt is a VERY good quality belt- very good belt.!
Stig
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I agree with Stig. The kymco belts are where it's at. And I've heard some gruesome tales of destruction from breaking Kevlar belts.
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Hahaha, true, I'll ride her till she dies, but I meant to say replace the actual clutch. I donnt know if the "performance" clutches even make a difference but idk. I'll just remember that if one day it seems like the engine is hittin 10k and I'm not going anywhere. Ill do the Kevlar belt when I do my clutch too. Still got the 2005 belt with a nice 6000km
Glad to hear the good news on the variator. Malossi, right?
On the performance clutch, I've realized that there's more pad to make contact with the bell. Mine is possibly still settling in since the thinner pads on the oem clutch had 21000 kms on it. I'm also still stuck with the lightest springs on it. It feels a lot smoother on the takeoff, I've set it now to be responsive without trying to jerk around, like coming out of a slow corner. I want to order the springs and weights for the clutch just to say I have the ability to pull wheelies, but I'm starting to like the smooth and quick start.
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Glad to hear the good news on the variator. Malossi, right?
On the performance clutch, I've realized that there's more pad to make contact with the bell. Mine is possibly still settling in since the thinner pads on the oem clutch had 21000 kms on it. I'm also still stuck with the lightest springs on it. It feels a lot smoother on the takeoff, I've set it now to be responsive without trying to jerk around, like coming out of a slow corner. I want to order the springs and weights for the clutch just to say I have the ability to pull wheelies, but I'm starting to like the smooth and quick start.
Sweet man!!!!
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Ya the malossi variator. Didn't change the spring cuz I got a perfect start off and can wheelie. There was a black spacer thing that came with it and i got no idea what it goes to because it came with a variator spacer in the kit. I'm wondering if it's to separate the variator a little extra? But idk
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WTF? Is my kit weak or what? I still get no where near wheelies, no matter what I've tried.. I'm jealous 😡
One day, dammit, one day.
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Idk i did wheelies even before the variator. Thing pulls back a little (no tire lift)when I go wide open haha. Just a little push n pull on the handlebar n my s9 goes straight up
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Idk i did wheelies even before the variator. Thing pulls back a little (no tire lift)when I go wide open haha. Just a little push n pull on the handlebar n my s9 goes straight up
Please post your room # and the visiting hours , when it happens.
Stig
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Hahaha. I'm not bad with wheelies, been dirtbiking for ever and I'm not that stupid to push it anywheres too far back
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I just want to know that it can. Nothing crazy, just pull the front wheel up a touch. I'm less than two hundred pounds, I'm not sure why I've never been able to. Boo hoo lol
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ya lol just knowing it can means everything.
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I successfully pulled one! A tiny one, looked very foolish, but it's possible.my timing on pulling up was too soon, and a little pre-load helps. If I were to put in the 38mm boss I would have the immediate low end pull to really try to hurt myself lol.
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The black spacer, I am pretty sure it's a restriction, slide it on the boss and front pulley will not close all the way, equals less top speed. Why it was included in the kit I don't know?