KymcoForum.com
Offroad => Side By Side => Topic started by: Wicked Al on March 17, 2015, 05:03:23 PM
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Welcome to my race build!
I am new to KYMCO, so if there is any advice and pointers you can give about the machine, I would be happy to hear it.
I am setting up this 700 to race the WORCS series of races.
Step 1. Make it safety legal
Step 2. Build a race worthy long travel suspension
Step 3. Finish out the frame and cage
Step 4. Build motor
I will post up what I do here along with on my Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/warpoffroad. (https://www.facebook.com/warpoffroad.) It would be awesome if you would "like" that page.
Thanks!
Alex
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Sounds like a great plan! Keep us updated!
we need to make these things faster. 60mph would be nice.
I have a 14' 700i
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Raced the 700 bone stock at the Lake Havasu race. Beat myself pretty good. Made some quick suspension mods for Sand Hollow a few weeks later, MUCH better. Now I am making a permanent suspension upgrade kit, hoping to have a prototype done in time for Cedar City in another week. 12" up front, 13.5" in the back running on Elka shocks.
So far, I have made a custom cage, added some more supports, added an aluminum roof and skinned a door. Added safety nets and race seat with 5pt harness. I deleted the bed and added 27" Motohammer tires on 14" MSA M21 Lok Beadlock wheels. It's coming along!
In addition to developing the suspension kit, I am also modifying the ignition and clutch. When I have things working good, I'll let you know.
aaron8, 60mph would be good.....or 70 :)
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I also have a 2014 700i. If I would have researched these machines I would have never got one. No aftermarket parts? But I won't give up on it, I have found a company called magnum tuning, not sure about them cause their parts are all universal. But they have a rev limiter delete and a computer chip(not really a chip). The so called chip just tricks the computer to run richer, so u don't lean it out with higher rpm. I have had my cdi apart and found the spot I need to solder to. But just a little scared it might burn it up. Cdi is cheap at least. 260$ for a new one. Limited to 48 mph sucks. Anybody know of anything else to do?
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What is your rpm at 48 mph ?
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Haven't had a chance to take it out yet with the mods. Had to pull off the a-arms so my fabricator could make up some new ones. Trial by fire, I have a race this weekend, we'll find out what it can do there!
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Good luck
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Pretty sure the rpm is at 7000, it is in that area.
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My top speed is 45 mph and it's also around 7000 rpm
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Well, Cedar City race is in the books!
I have a full report and video on my FB page, Like it if you would like to stay updated. https://www.facebook.com/warpoffroad (https://www.facebook.com/warpoffroad)
I'll copy the content here too.
Race Report:
WORCS Rd 6, 700 Production SxS, Cedar City, Iron Mine Utah.
Great things are happening in our KYMCO UXV 700 race program!
First I want to start off by saying Southern Utah has some beautiful country. I imagine that’s why they have so many National Parks.
Forecasts were NOT encouraging. They changed from day to day, but always rain. Sure enough, on Friday for the full course unclassified race, it was drizzling. Not bad as it was pouring earlier, but the track was sloppy. A guy on a quad had just come off the course…covered in mud, and suggested I would be better off not going out. Well, I had just mounted fresh Stage 5 shocks from Elka on the 700 and was anxious to see what they were like… so out I went.
It was sloppy in many areas, but not too bad in others. I tried to avoid the deeper ponds. I went through all of my tear offs, but all in all, it was good to be out there pre riding the course. Not only did I get a feel for the new shocks, which performed great, but I could also get used to the KYMCO as well. Given that I am new to SxS racing I had some technique to learn and limits to find out, practice is good for that.
My plan was to come out with new a-arms with the new shocks which would give me 12†of travel up front and 13.5†of travel in the back…didn’t happen. Arms are still a work in progress, I ended up with 10†up front and 11-12†in the back. Still way better than stock and with shocks that were sprung correctly it handled the best it has ever been with nothing but improvements on the way! (Thanks Elka!)
As it seems to be the case, I was still working on the 700 fabbing a last minute solution for the suspension, got everything bolted together, threw it in the trailer and headed up to Utah from Arizona to finish putting it together there. Turns out I missed a piece which I would pay for later on.
While the rain was coming down, and the lightning flashed and the thunder rolled and hail pelted the trailer….and was that really deep pervasive rumble from the Nevada earthquake? While all that was happening, I jacked up the SxS, in the trailer, so I could bolt on the skid plate. Talk about tight quarters, but it was a mud wash outside so that was not an option. I then went to bolt up the snorkel for the CVT and realized a 90 degree elbow was missing. The air port for the CVT faced directly back right where all the mud from the tires will be kicked up to. So I ended up zip tying a rag over the port to keep the mud out, but still allow for “some†air movement. You can guess where this is leading.
The rain abated to a light drizzle just before my time to head out for the unclassified so I took off and had a good time getting used to the new suspension and the track. After my session I loaded the SxS and the 1000 pounds of mud back into the trailer and went on a search for a car wash. Mud was everywhere, but my rag still held over the CVT inlet and looked to be doing its job, so that was good…or so I thought. After the 700 was looking fresh as a daisy again, it was my turn. Apparently I need more than one driving suit, I found the laundry at the hotel and got the suit cleaned up and did the same for myself as power washers have a way of ejecting mud off of the vehicle and onto you. I am sure the lady behind the counter at the hotel had to wonder if they made the right decision letting me stay there when I went to check in after washing the SxS, reputable would not be a word I would use to describe my appearance.
My race wasn’t until the afternoon so I could sleep in which I really needed after the late nights prepping the 700 for this race. The forecast called for rain and thunderstorms all day, so I resigned myself to the fact it was going to be one of “those†races.
The next day, after a leisurely morning, I get out to the course and it looks relatively dry! The ground is still muddy, but no torrential downpours or constant soaking drizzle, it looks like it might be a fine day for racing! I quickly finish up getting the 700 ready which included installing the fire extinguisher, battening down some of the plastic pieces, installing my number plates and kicking the tires to make sure they have the proper air pressure. As race time approaches the weather is still holding out, though there are some dark air masses obscuring the hills not too far away.
Unlike the previous races, they line up the 700 class with the 600s so the starting line is full, the more the merrier I say. Despite the different displacement, it is all a good match as the smaller vehicles are also lighter weight, so power to weight is fairly even across the board except for my main competition, an Arctic Cat Wildcat sport. It is a 700cc twin with 15 more hp than I have, 12+ inches of travel all around on Elka Stage 5 shocks, 20mph more top speed and a lighter vehicle. Fine, I know when a race is rigged by a sport SxS versus a utility SxS. That’s ok, I’m down for the challenge.
The other lines take off, 38 SxSs total in this race. The flag drops for our line and we’re gone! I end up in 6th place around the first corner and the race is on! I have to say I had a lot of fun this race. The suspension is making all the difference in the world in what I can do, and we still have more to go in that department. As we all make it around the first few corners, I realize that I’m still in the mix, no one is just walking away from me and so the first lap is like that, very close racing, slicing and dicing with the others, this is what it’s all about! Well, the rain decides to start coming towards the end of lap one and I pull at a tear off only to take the whole stack! Gads! That’s ok, just a thing.
There are quite a few rolled over SxS’s on the course, so I’m playing it safe trying not to be a statistic, but with blurred vision from the rain, and a better feel for what I can do, I pick up the pace on lap #2 (blurred vision makes you go faster because you don’t see what you need to slow down for). By the end of lap two (it’s a four lap race, about 55 minutes) I think I have passed all of the 600’s and I have caught up to the Arctic Cat, that’s right, a KYMCO chasing down an Arctic Cat. Ironically, KYMCO builds the Wildcat Sport for Arctic Cat, they are a good builder. As we start lap #3, I am hanging off the bumper of the Arctic Cat and two wheeling it around corners, as we hit a whoop section, my oversight in packing catches up to me and my CVT belt disintegrates due to the rag slowing down airflow to keep it cool. I roll off the course with all kinds of smoke billowing around me and know my race is done.
The race didn’t end the way I wanted, but the racing exceeded my expectations, all in all, it was a good day. The KYMCO performed excellently against the other SxSs and I know I have more to go before I max out its performance capabilities. Based on my lap times, I would have finished mid pack against this entire race field of 38, 27 of which are 900cc or larger. We’re going in the right direction!
Thanks to my sponsors, all of whom play an important part in my success.
KYMCO – Building quality machines, and yes, they can race. http://www.kymcousa.com/ (http://www.kymcousa.com/)
MSA- Motor Sport Alloys makes great and stylish wheels, making me look good and holding the tires to the SxS at the same time with their M21 Lok beadlock wheels. http://cocomponents.com/dealer/atv-wheels/ (http://cocomponents.com/dealer/atv-wheels/)
EFX Performance Tires – Those MotoHammers are tough tires with a great all terrain tread pattern, mud rocks, sand, it doesn’t matter. http://cocomponents.com/dealer/atv-tires-golfcar-tires/ (http://cocomponents.com/dealer/atv-tires-golfcar-tires/)
Elka – Stage 5 shocks, connecting the SxS to the ground in comfort and style over jumps and through the whoops. http://www.elkasuspension.com/ (http://www.elkasuspension.com/)
Most important…my Wife. Understanding, patience, tolerance, support…even encouragement. Without her, I couldn’t do what I do.
Thanks!!
Alex Kollitz
WARP Offroad
www.warpoffroad.com (http://www.warpoffroad.com)
PS. I now have the series points lead for the 700 class!
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You Tube Video
https://youtu.be/G4lNxXDKyBk
Anyone know how to make this an actual video preview instead of just a link?
Thanks!
Alex
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Nice video looks like a lot of fun and it made me feel sick when the belt started smoking I can imagine how you felt. :( I noticed on the video you said the power steering was holding up well. I was thinking about ordering the eps unit from kymco any advice? And what did you do to get more speed? Just curious because my 700 tops out at 45 mph before the rev limiter kicks in. What is your top speed? Thanks
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Hey Laidback, I mentioned I needed power steering and a steering quickener, I don't have power steering yet on this one. I have it on another unit that is in parts right now, I briefly drove it and it worked great. My 700 topped out at 43mph. What it is actually doing now, I don't know. I changed the computer, my revs go up to 7500. I have 27 inch tires and I made some clutch changes. When I changed the computer my dash didn't give a readout, unless you want to believe I was doing 199kph :) I will be doing some dyno tuning in the near future and will be able to get some good numbers from that.
Race pictures are now up on my facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/warpoffroad (https://www.facebook.com/warpoffroad)
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Just curious on what you changed the computer out with, unless you went and got rid of the fuel injection.
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I got some top secret stuff from KYMCO. I don't know if this is something they will offer, kinda doubt it as they need to protect warranties and such, or if it is something they will let me fool around with so I can offer it as an aftermarket part once we get it dialed in. Once I know, I'll post it here. For fuel I'm using the Dobeck fuel controller. There are no two ways about it, it's certainly running faster then before without any limiter action.
I dropped it off at my engine guys place on Saturday. We're going to get a baseline dyno run with everything stock except the tires. Then we'll do dyno pulls after every mod so we can see what benefit the various changes make to its performance. Computer, intake and exhaust are the first three things on the list. Then we'll look at piston, valves and cam along with headwork to see what we can get it to give up for ponies.
I just got into the bottom end of the one motor and it looks like everything is plenty beefy for performance mods, this is good to know and not have to worry about it.
Alex
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Hahaha top secret. I talked to kymco also. But they had no help for me. And they said the same thing about the warranty. I am gonna take my cdi box to a computer geek this week. I am sure I can just solder a larger Quartz in place of the other, but I'm unsure of how they work. I already had the box apart and located it. I also was told the mxu cdi box has a higher limit, but that was from an unreliable source. Just asked on the mxu side of the forum, I just want mine to make it to 55mph and I'll be happy.
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Oh, you'll be happy alright, until you get to 55, then you'll want to do 60, then 65....I know how this works. Good luck with the mods. Let us know how well it goes!
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Mine will go 56 mph by the speedo with no mods
Paul
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Paul, I think that's a very good number. I know the limiter on mine kept it to 43mph. Check it against your smart phone if you have one. You can download a speed app so you can see how fast you are going regardless of tire size changes etc.
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We have a garmin will check it and let you know
Thanks,Paul
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Dyno pulls, power to the ground.
Everything stock, 27" tires = 34hp
Computer and Dobeck fuel controller = 36hp + more rpm
We are working on an intake, should add 3-4hp
Next is an exhaust and we'll see where that takes us.
The head, piston and jug is on it's way to see what can be done to flow better there.
I'll post graphs once I get my hands on them.
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Well I tried to change the peice in the computer. It is call a tantalum capacitor. Went with the wrong size and didn't work. Wouldn't run at all? Luckily I put the old one back in and it is ok now. Oh well. I'm curious does anybody's exhaust glow hot, when I look under at night it is glowing red. I am curious if everybody's does that. Took it to the stealership and they said it is fine. That's been bugging me since I bought it.
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My exhaust also glow's red but I don't think it's a problem. I've read the rhino forum they do the same thing.
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Here is the Dyno chart of going from stock to the computer and Dobeck fuel controller.
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Here is the chart with the computer and fuel controller, but adding a custom intake. The rpm difference was due to the guys shutting it down early and not doing a full pull. I'll get more charts after we add the clutch mod.
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i hate to say it but I test drove a rzr 900s on Saturday. All I can say is what an awsome machine. Only $3000 more than what I paid. I wish the kymco had some aftermarket parts, time to take a huge loss I believe. My best advice to anybody wanting to purchase a kymco is do your research. Test drive a few different brands. I didn't. And it all depends on what you are planning to do with it. It worked good plowing snow, but trail riding and keeping up with the group, not gonna happen.
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Nothing to hate. The 900s is a different class of vehicle. If you test drive a Rzr 1000, you will see another big step up in performance...for a few more dollars of course. The vehicles the Kymco compares against are other utility focused vehicles such as the Polaris Ranger, Honda Pioneer, Yamaha Viking etc. You say "only" $3000 more than the Kymco. If we're talking 10k and 13k, that's a 33% increase in price, for many that's a big change. When my kit is done, it will give essentially the same suspension performance as the 900s, 12 up front, 13.75 in back, but I can't make up the displacement difference in power. Good luck with your purchase, give us a long term report after you've had it a bit.
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Nice rig Al.
Look into the HPI Inner rotor ignition, and programmable CDI. http://www.hpi.be/cdi.php (http://www.hpi.be/cdi.php)
If they don't have a mounting kit for your machine (inner rotor kit) They will make it. I could see in the Vid. you need more torque at low rpm, and advanced timing plus race fuel will give it to you.
I'd also look into making a much stiffer control spring for the rear pulleys.
I'm sure you can make that thing a screamer.
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Thanks for the lead Zombie!
I sent them an email, see if we can get something going on.
I have a 12.4:1, 105mm piston going in, that should help a bit. I'm trying out a couple of clutch set ups, one from epi, the other from KYMCO. I also have some stronger springs to put in the wet clutch. We have two different grinds on a cam, one is all around the other is high rpm. I'll drop in the high rpm cam :). The all around cam will go in the back up 700. I also bought a 425cfm blower to put on the clutch, gonna keep that puppy cool!
After I get all of these parts on, then we can see about flowing the head. Looking for a larger throttle body, but not really finding anything readily available that doesn't require a lot of rework. I might have to be content with boring this one out.
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HPI is a great bunch of fellas, and very cool to work with. They never had a rotor for the ZX-50's until I worked with them to get one made. I ended up with about a grand worth of their products to test, and tune. It's all still 100% more than a year later.
You're really on the ball with this machine, and I respect what you are doing, as well as your approach. Get the big dogs in the fight, and let THEM do the worrying.Just for experimental purposes... What about salvaging a throttle body, and injector from a large bore motorcycle?
Maybe even a Harley aftermarket kit. I'd be at the wrecking yards looking...
Please don't bail out on us. I'd love to see where this leads for you.
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Well Al
There will be no long term review on the 900s. They would not do the trade. But of course they talked me into something different. They had a 2014 trx450r left over. So this will be my speed toy. The wife and son can ride the kymco and I don't have to shovel my long driveway when it snows. Can't wait till the weekend, it's my turn to make them eat all the dust. And hopefully kymco will start to have some aftermarket in the near future. I prolly won't touch the suspension, local state forest trails are maximum 60" wide. And I am right there now.
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Sounds like you got a great deal there. My suspension kit keeps the width stock...your day just keeps getting better! Your wife will love you for getting this kit once I'm done with it...just saying ;)
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I'm curious, how are you guys putting pictures on here. I can't get my phone to do it. It says file is to big. And I don't see an option to change anything?
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This site is amazingly stingy with pictures, might have to do with bandwidth or hosting costs. I use Windows Live Photo Gallery on my laptop to resize images. I'm sure there is an app for your phone that can handle the tasks. Try Aviary Photo Editor.
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Another method from a phone is to use a picture sharing host like PhotoBucket.
You post the inage there, and copy the URL link to your post here. It's like VooDoo Magik.
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Thanks for the info. I give that a try. Too bad it all just can't be easy. :-\
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Yeah. I agree. I went thru hell figuring how to post Picts. here. Now I mainly use generic Picts form the net to illustrate the point.
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Wow finally had a company contact me and will reprogram a computer for me. Only hard part is I need to get the teeth count off of the flywheel. That sounds like a pain.?. This one is up your alley Al. Take the starter off and mark a tooth and rotate it? That is the only way I can think of.
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I'm out of state right now, but when I get back next week I'll see if a motor is still in parts or not and get you a number if it is.
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Great thanks. Hopefully this will work, Us Kymco guys can keep him busy.
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Got to check out a Yamaha wolverine r-spec today. A guy I work with got one. Not a bad machine, just another sport utility. He took me for a ride, topped out at 52mph. Crap he's got 4 mph on me! lol.
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Later guys. Good luck with ur kymco's. I traded mine in today for a Teryx le. It is not the Polaris I wanted but it is better than what I had. Wife is gonna be pist, that's a 4wheeler and a sxs in one week.
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Did some more testing and performance improvements this past week.
Clutch: Changed in some custom parts and springs. Peak hp changed from 40.63 to 42.43. But that's not the big news. From 20mph on up it had a good 3-5hp gain and it didn't stop until just over 56mph. This is a great mod!
Exhaust: Didn't alter it yet, but did run it with and without the endcap. With the endcap tops is 42.43hp, without the end cap it maxes at 44.59hp. It's particularly effective at low rpm, but shows improvement across the whole range up to 40mph where it is about the same with the cap, but then shows improvement again all the way to max speed of 56mph. I'll work on getting a muffler made that will take advantage of the lost hp.
Overall it's looking good. Had the head flow tested and it looks like it's a well designed head that will flow a lot of air, more so than the Raptor. We should see some very significant gains from the top end. I'm shooting for 60hp to the wheels, this puts it in 900s range. We might even make it into 900XP range. With the increase in power, I will most likely move to larger tires, like 30". This will increase my top end to where it needs to be.
More updates in a few weeks after the next WORCS race and maybe even news on the a-arms!
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Yes they look sweet with 30" bfg's, my opinion. Seen a rhino with the long arm kit and 30's. And I cut my exhaust tip off and put a 1.5" tip on it, looked way better than the very small tip on it stock. I noticed no power gains. Still had the spark arrester just no cat. Wish I could post a picture but I give up on that. Good luck at the next race. Make another video that was cool to watch.
Update on the Teryx: I love it, getting the power commander for it this weekend, wanted to get exhaust but it's around $900 for the full kit. No way, I'll stay quiet for that price. Mainly trail ride anyway, no need to disturb the wild life. I had to laugh the first ride I went on, it's governed at 50mph, really? Come on. Thankfully there is aftermarket for this machine. It was hard to hand the keys to the 700i sp over but now I'm not regretting at all.
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Straddleline ORV park WORCS race #7 is in the books.
You can see the picture gallery and video on my fb page. https://www.facebook.com/warpoffroad (https://www.facebook.com/warpoffroad)
The suspension and power were pretty good. Had an issue from the get go when I hit the first big table top and landed fairly hard, I broke the front differential mount. Finally figured out what was happening and switched to 2WD and continued racing. Did that for a couple of laps then high centered on a large log in the woods and stayed there for the duration.
The next two races can take advantage of more power so that's where I'll be concentrating my efforts as it seems the suspension is doing a-ok.
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I was checking out ur pics, looks like fun. You deffinatly stand out with that machine. Starting line, Polaris, Polaris, artic cat, Polaris, oh wait what's that a kymco? And I'm not sure what that 4wheeler is on your Facebook pics, but that has to be the most awsome atv I have ever seen.
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Thanks Joe!
Yup, it stands out for sure. This last race was cool because there was a grandstand with lots of people watching, my wife said that a lot of them were rooting for me just because I was different.
It is a lot of fun, and I'm making ground on the Arctic Cats and Polaris vehicles. I always liked the underdog and enjoy the unusual, like a utility vehicle showing up a sport vehicle.
The ATV on my page is the Wraith 1000. It is a purpose built, clean sheet design for a desert race sport ATV. 110hp V2 Suzuki motor, 18" of front wheel travel and 20" of rear wheel travel on 28" tires using a six shock suspension design of mine. I'm not quite done with it or I would be at the Vegas to Reno race this weekend, maybe by next year I will have everything done and tested.
Perhaps by the time I get done building aftermarket parts for the KYMCO you will want one again. The Teryx is a good vehicle though, don't think you can go wrong with it for an all purpose SxS.
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Yeah it's only a matter of time till parts come out for kymco, I would prolly buy the uxv 450i, the new front end is pretty cool looking. And it will fit in the state parks around here. I am very limited to where I can ride. I'm too wide. I put the dynojet power commander and stage 3 vforce John clutch in the Teryx, seems perfect right there. Was gonna put the muzzys exhaust system on but I don't really want to be that loud. And it was close to $1000, no thanks.
I'll have to keep watching for that atv, like to see that when it's finished!