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Scooters - 50cc => Agility 50 => Topic started by: franx93 on October 23, 2009, 04:53:56 PM
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hello, in a few day i will put malossi variator on my agility 50 r16.
have i to put white spring? what differences are there from original? thank you :)
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..I have the white spring in mine, and I am satisfied with it...
..It's about 2.5-3 inches longer than the stock spring..
..allows for more torque and quicker recovery of velocity...
..I originally ran without installing the spring, but performance is better with the white spring..
peace
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I finally got around to installing that white spring in mine this week. It seems to have lowered my top speed by about 3mph. I'm not sure it is shifting all the way into high gear. The scoot accelerates a bit quicker, I think because it is keeping the rpm's higher. Idk, I might take it out. Anyone else experience this?
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I have been running the yellow for about 2 years, and am quite happy w/ that. What size / weight rollers did you install You may need to step up 1/2 gram to take full advantage of the new set up.
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I finally got around to installing that white spring in mine this week. It seems to have lowered my top speed by about 3mph. I'm not sure it is shifting all the way into high gear. The scoot accelerates a bit quicker, I think because it is keeping the rpm's higher. Idk, I might take it out. Anyone else experience this?
..hmmm..my top speed increased when I installed the white spring...with 5.5 gram rollers...
..yours is a 2-stroke right?
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I was thinking that heavier rollers may help, but I'm already running heavier ones. I currently have 9 gram Dr. Pulley sliders in there. I was also going to check out the length of the malossi belt I have been running compared to the stock. I think it is a tiny bit shorter, if I recall correctly. I don't see how that would make a difference, as I have been running it for quite a while and didn't notice a drop in top speed when I installed it.
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Hey shaka< those weights are SUPER heavy. I've got malossi 5.5, and the thing SCREAMS. Those heavy weights will make the white spring work though! Maybe something didn't seat quite right when you put it together. You have all malossi in your cvt, don't you ? therefore the belt should be correct. It is slightly shorter than stock because the mal. cvt set up is smaller diameter. I would think something just didn't set right. Maybe a burr or something. Could be too the belt has worn too far, but that wouldn't change the fact you noticed the drop when you put the spring in. I would double check.
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Everything is Malossi except for the clutch. It is still stock. I had some 6 or 6.5g weights it it and it did SCREAM! I took them out after not too long and put the 9g sliders back in. It was super (a little scary!) fast off the line, but I was looking for a little more top end. That is why I put the heavier weights back in. I won't get a chance till tuesday, but I will pull it back apart and inspect everything.
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I was thinking that heavier rollers may help, but I'm already running heavier ones. I currently have 9 gram Dr. Pulley sliders in there. I was also going to check out the length of the malossi belt I have been running compared to the stock. I think it is a tiny bit shorter, if I recall correctly. I don't see how that would make a difference, as I have been running it for quite a while and didn't notice a drop in top speed when I installed it.
..when I got my malossi, it came with 9 gram rollers...a mistake by the dealer..I tried those, and i think i would have been outrun by a turtle on take-off...
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I think mine had 8 or 8.5 gram rollers in there stock. I put the 9 gram in before I did the 70cc kit and it was very slow on take off, so I took them out. After I did the 70cc kit I put 6.5 gram roller in and it SCREAMED, but it revved really high and the clutch almost seemed to slip for a few seconds just after take off. I ran those for about 800kms I think then checked them. The rollers were beginning to get some pretty good flat spots on the leading 3. That is when I put the 9 gram sliders in just to see how they performed. It still was very quick off the line, but had a bit higher top speed so I have been running those for about 2 months now. I think the 70cc has enough torque to turn them now plus I have changed the clutch springs as well. I kind of like the heavier ones cause my scoot doesn't want to wheelie every time I hit the throttle and it goes a bit faster overall. My take off is still real quick, but more manageable!
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I think mine had 8 or 8.5 gram rollers in their stock. I put the 9 gram in before I did the 70cc kit and it was very slow on take off, so I took them out. After I did the 70cc kit I put 6.5 gram roller in and it SCREAMED, but it revved really high and the clutch almost seemed to slip for a few seconds just after take off. I ran those for about 800kms I think then checked them. The rollers were beginning to get some pretty good flat spots on the leading 3. That is when I put the 9 gram sliders in just to see how they performed. It still was very quick off the line, but had a bit higher top speed so I have been running those for about 2 months now. I think the 70cc has enough torque to turn them now plus I have changed the clutch springs as well. I kind of like the heavier ones cause my scoot doesn't want to wheelie every time I hit the throttle and it goes a bit faster overall. My take off is still real quick, but more manageable!
..what can I do there, with my clutch springs, to give me a bit quicker take-off, without affecting top speed?...everything I have is stock A50 parts..
..I can't imagine wheelies... ???
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you would either remove weight from your clutch pads, or go w/ a heavier set of retainer springs. The theory being you will use more throttle to take off, getting more power to accelerate with. W/ my 2t I have to hit 3,500 just to roll. I hit around 4000-4500 to really take off! Your case would be the same, just lower numbers, say around 1,100 -to roll, and 1,800-2,100 to take off. (just ball park #'s)
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you would either remove weight from your clutch pads, or go w/ a heavier set of retainer springs. The theory being you will use more throttle to take off, getting more power to accelerate with. W/ my 2t I have to hit 3,500 just to roll. I hit around 4000-4500 to really take off! Your case would be the same, just lower numbers, say around 1,100 -to roll, and 1,800-2,100 to take off. (just ball park #'s)
..so, with less weight, or stiffer springs, the clutch will need to spin faster to engage the pads...
..since imma be more on the throttle, then the initial power at take-off is greater...
..that about right?
..wheelies...can't get that thought outta my head...
:o
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I think it would be pretty tough to get a wheelie out of a 50cc. The 70cc seems to have way more torque! Zombie's explanation of the clutch springs were pretty good. The stiffer the springs, the faster the clutch has to spin to engage. With stiffer springs it's kinda like revving up your car and dropping the clutch! When you get the right combination it engages the clutch right at the beginning of your power band, so you get a real quick launch! ;D
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you would either remove weight from your clutch pads, or go w/ a heavier set of retainer springs. The theory being you will use more throttle to take off, getting more power to accelerate with. W/ my 2t I have to hit 3,500 just to roll. I hit around 4000-4500 to really take off! Your case would be the same, just lower numbers, say around 1,100 -to roll, and 1,800-2,100 to take off. (just ball park #'s)
On Piaggio NRG mc2 50 2stroke we hit almost perfect set up. The transmission is engaged at 7500 rpm and immediately when fully engaged, it even jumps up to 8000 rpm instead of dropping and revs are maintained between 8000 and 10000. This means that you almost instantly hit the top portion of the power band and you accelerate like out of the cannon (for 50 2stroke 5.5 hp at least...). :) :) :)
The problem is that we used completely custom set up of rollers, main clutch spring and small springs, so even if we wanted to replicate it, we would not be able to...
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WHO'S GOT THE BIGGEST...BALL'S OF THEM ALL!!! If you keep going, soon you mpg will match mine. (about 30-35) But I get there quick!!!
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..ok, so I dis-assemble my clutch last night..Don't know why I was so intimidated by it..It's a pretty simple setup..
..I have blue springs..does anybody know which color of Malossi spring is the next step up from the stock springs?
..I'm looking at blue, red and green for the A50 4t..
peace
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Malossi has been changing the colors quite allot. Used to be white yellow red. From all that I have seen the red is always the strongest. You can get a set from Malossi USA for about 25 bucks. The only real way to tell is the weakest spring will have the most windings. the strongest/ the least. Even the weakest malossi wil be about 2 times stronger than the stock set up so you may want to try those first. I tried the red in my 2t, and it would have been good on the track but not on the street. A little sand on a corner, and a machine turning 8-9 grand do not mix. You can only try them out to get what you need...
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..well, I already have decent take-off, so imma go with the weaker of the malossi...
..still...wheelies... :o
THANX!!
;D
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I'm looking through the Malossi catalog that came with my variator. From what I can decipher you need part# 29 9605. That is a set of the 3 different strength springs (green, red, & blue) for the original Agility clutch. The green is the weakest, blue the strongest. The set of clutch springs I used are not Malossi, but they also list as green, red, blue. They say the green is +15%, red +30%, and blue +50%, I'm not sure if that is the same % on the Malossi springs, but the colors are the same and in that order. Right now I have the green +15% in my scoot.
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I was just looking at rollers on Mal. usa, and saw the springs were 16.95. Also for the month of Nov. all orders are 10% off. Free shipping over 100.00. You have to mention the Promo though. It's an Email offer for existing customers, but I'm sure if you mention all the free "ads" on the forum...
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..AWESOME!!..
..you guys are just too much...
;D
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..got me a set of 6.2 gram rollers, a yellow Malossi main clutch spring and the assortment of fly clutch springs ordered!!!
..went ahead and splurged for the overnight shipping..
..gonna be here TOMORROW!!
..WOO-HOOO!!!
..just call me "Hole-Shot", ma'am... ;D
..Got'm at C & K Powersports in Jacksonville NC...Shaka, ain't that kinda near you?
;D :o
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I'm in Wilmington, on the south side of the UNCW campus. It's about an hour by car to J'ville!
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What happened to franx93?
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Good question! Hopefully we answered his question all of ramblings! ;D
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Well's there's plenty of info...
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..Franx comes and goes like that..pop in...pop out...don't see him for a cpl weeks....
..COME BACK FRANX!!
::)
we need some fresh blood on this board....
:-X
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I was just thinking it would help to see how he made out! It's hard to explain to people that the SAME set up on 4 different scoots., will have 4 different outcomes. That's why the TOP shops will not guarantee the results of their parts unless they do the tuning.
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I was just thinking it would help to see how he made out! It's hard to explain to people that the SAME set up on 4 different scoots., will have 4 different outcomes. That's why the TOP shops will not guarantee the results of their parts unless they do the tuning.
..yeah, I learn a lot from reading these posts..sometimes I just scan back through to refresh my memory on things..
:)
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so, i put malossi variator with white spring and now i get 70km/h (with 6g rollers) have i to put heavier rollers to go over 70km/h? :)
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Heavier rollers may get you an extra couple miles per hour top speed, but you will sacrifice your acceleration. There comes a point where heavier rollers aren't going to close your variator any further. You probably need to look for a little extra power somewhere else, i.e. intake & exhaust. ;)
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Hey franx, Glad to see it working out for you! You are now entering the FINE TUNING ZONE!!! Keep looking around the site, and the web in general. There are PLENTY of things to get an idea from. (some work-some don't)
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my agility is very strange...others go over 70km/h with malossi variator...what's my problem? carburator? (i have #86 main jet) or can be my trasmission belt that have 13500 km?
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my agility is very strange...others go over 70km/h with malossi variator...what's my problem? carburator? (i have #86 main jet) or can be my trasmission belt that have 13500 km?
..I've found that 6 gram rollers are too heavy for my A50-r12..
..@ 5-5.5 grams work way better..
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also downhill it goes a bit over 70 (71/72)....it's very strange...
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..Franx, it is strange...Your r16 has a different gearbox than my r12..I'm wondering if that might have something to do with it..
..my belt broke at 30,000km...I'm sure that it needed changing way before that..The Malossi Kevlar belt will help you some..
..also, depending on mileage, you may need to adjust your intake and exhaust valves...
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Franx- my guess is that your belt is worn out. Mine only lasted about 9,000kms before I noticed a decrease in top speed! You can measure the width and compare it with what a new one is. I bet you'll find some extra speed in a new belt!
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ok, i'll replace it. but at looking it isn't very worn.....strange strange...
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..just found out that the "White" malossi main clutch/ torque drive spring is rated at 1000..
..Best I can get for my A50 is a 1500, which is on the way...
..I think that's all I will need anyway...
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Franx- The belt may not look worn, you have to measure the width. On the Agility the service limit is 16.5mm, a new belt should be 17.5mm. We're talking about a real small difference, only 1mm.
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ok, but, can the belt brake me downhill xD?
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The belt won't "brake" you downhill, but the motor will. You can only go as fast as your motor will spin! The drive system doesn't have a "freewheel" mechanism like what you would have on a bicycle. Once the clutch is spinning fast enough to engage, the rear wheel is in direct drive with the motor.
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Well yes, and no. The belt will only respond to what the engine, and cvt are doing. If the belt is worn too far it will not allow the cvt to work to its limits, there by reducing available output. It is important to measure it as shaka suggested. If there is a restriction in your set-up (intake/ exhaust) then even a good belt will only follow the "command" it is recieving. Same applies to an improper set-up in the cvt. (rollers/ springs/ worn parts). I would start w/ a through inspection of all the parts you want to run. This would include checking for wear limits on the clutch, belt, and drive surfaces. Once you are sure all is good you will have an easier time tunning. You may have a low compression situation, or perhaps a clogged muffler. Valve adjustment, worn rings, bad fuel filter, dirty air box, leaking vacuum line to the fuel supply petcock, or any one of a dozen more things. Try to systematically look the scoot over, and you will find the cause. Even low tire pressure will have a large effect.
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..franx, how many kilometers does your scoot have on it?
..I ask because your valves should have been adjusted around the first 2000 km, and then again around 4000...
..from my experience, correct valve adjstment is a highly contributing factor to good performance...
peace
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it has 13000 km but i adjusted valves play at around 5000...
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it has 13000 km but i adjusted valves play at around 5000...
..i reckon that they need adjusting again...I adjust mine about every 4000-5000 km, and they have needed it every time...