KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => LIKE 200i => Topic started by: Stig / Major Tom on December 05, 2014, 02:38:47 AM
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Going to check my valve lash on my day off, tomorrow...but decided to do the tear down as soon as I got home this evening....on a hot engine. (sort of-- it is 33degrees F out there )
Just for the heck of it I checked the valve gap on the hot engine.
Tomorrow I will check it again when the engine is cold (@30 degrees F). The valves are to be checked only on a cold engine. (over night is best) So, if you take your scooter in to the dealer for service and a valve adjustment is part of the order - they should not give it back to you in an hour or two!
For those who'd like a refresher...or have yet to check your valves, I took some pictures:
Remove seat bucket (w/seat attached to it!)
Remove battery cover and cover with heavy cloth.
Remove center cover to expose valve cover.
(Disconnect spark plug cap, for safety.)
Remove plug on fan cover to expose timing mark ("T" and a line, nearby)
Remove rubber vacuum line from valve cover.
Remove four 10mm bolts on valve cover (if you forget where they went - match bolt length to casting depth on the valve cover)
Rotate engine clock-wise with a 14mm socket on white nylon fan nut (look in there, you'll see it...I do not remove the spark plug to make it easier to turn engine over: engine is not that powerful and I don't like re-threading that little plug too many times, to avoid cross-threading it)
Align "T" with the notch and align two hash lines on chain sprocket with edge of engine ...if correct you can grab the adjustment nuts and feel slight movement when you pull/push them. If NO movement...rotate engine 360 again and try again. Do not adjust anything if you do not feel a bit of movement in each valve adjusting nut because you have not found top-dead-center, necessary to adjust the valve lash.
When I checked the valves on this hot engine I got .oo5 on the intake and .oo4 on the exhaust valve. The correct setting is .oo4 inches - or 0.10 mm
Insert feeler gauge blade. Loosen the lock nut then turn center screw to get proper light drag on the blade. Snug lock nut, if still good - do the other valve. Rotate engine to TDC and check them both again.
I reuse the valve cover gasket if it looks good and add a small bit of heavier gear oil to the moving parts before replacing the cover. Tighten bolts gently in a X pattern...do not overtighten these alloy parts. Just snug.
Replace vacuum rubber hose onto valve cover.
Start the engine after replacing plug cap. Check for leaks around the valve cover...if good- - button it up. (replace center cover, battery cover and seat bucket)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/aw9efs.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2iut8ps.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/35bbiuf.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/4v5n4l.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/105p4if.jpg)
(http://i62.tinypic.com/312h7p2.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/161ao0m.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/25ur8si.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/24gn0aa.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2iapzys.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2aakkeg.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/2nreu1c.jpg)
I use 4 feeler blades: .oo4" ,+ and - , and use them to check my valves. If the .oo5 fits....I keep adjusting until only the .oo4 fits, etc.
Stig
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Well written and easy to follow, Stig!
Karl
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I can only join Crossbolt, very nice Stig. Now if only I could find something similar for the DT300.....
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Nice work Stig!
You are a champ!
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COLD ENGINE REPORT:
Both needed adjustment when I checked them this morning (cold engine)
Intake was at .oo5+, exhaust was tight on .oo4" feeler blade..
Snugged the one - loosened the other ....for a nice slide @.oo4".
Ran it without battery cover to check for leaks.....noted that my cover really does snug down the battery....vibrates and makes noise without it.( and I have a oversized battery in there ...noted that it is the same battery as OEM in my new Forza)
Stig
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I can only join Crossbolt, very nice Stig. Now if only I could find something similar for the DT300.....
CYCLEPEDIA on-line manual?
Mine, for the Like200i is pretty good.
Cost about 20 minutes of dealer's shop time.
Stig
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I've posted that I adjust my valves to "0" lash hot. When cold I usually get .02-.03mm on either valve.
That's quite a bit more difference than you recorded.
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Nice report Stig. Thanks for sharing.
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Extremely nice work Stig! You are an amazing guy. Thanks. You should consider writing Workshop Manuals for Kymco in your pension after you retired. Beside starting a new career as a high quality photographer. 8) :D
The only thing I strongly miss in all kymco workshop manuals are the torque values for all the bolts, screws and nuts. Especially where we deal with the relatively soft aluminium...
"snug" is a relatively open definition for interpretation. And a snug of a strong hand is probably different from a weak hand...
What I have found throughout my reasearch in the web:
Valve Cover ~ 9NM
Spark Plug ~ 10-12NM
Valve Adjuster Screw Lock Nut ~ 5-6NM
But I don´t know if these values are correct - give or take?
Anyone out there who has all the correct torque values for the like 200i to post in an extra thread?
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Torque is determined by the fastener, and not the application (with very few exceptions).
There are no exceptions on our bikes.
Just look up "fastener torque values"
http://www.portlandbolt.com/technicalinformation/bolt-torque-chart.html (http://www.portlandbolt.com/technicalinformation/bolt-torque-chart.html)
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Extremely nice work Stig! You are an amazing guy. Thanks. You should consider writing Workshop Manuals for Kymco in your pension after you retired. Beside starting a new career as a high quality photographer. 8) :D
The only thing I strongly miss in all kymco workshop manuals are the torque values for all the bolts, screws and nuts. Especially where we deal with the relatively soft aluminium...
"snug" is a relatively open definition for interpretation. And a snug of a strong hand is probably different from a weak hand...
What I have found throughout my reasearch in the web:
Valve Cover ~ 9NM
Spark Plug ~ 10-12NM
Valve Adjuster Screw Lock Nut ~ 5-6NM
But I don´t know if these values are correct - give or take?
Anyone out there who has all the correct torque values for the like 200i to post in an extra thread?
Here you go Robo.....(getting any riding in on your pretty LIKE over there? Pictures?!)
posted specs here ---
Stig http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=13139.0 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=13139.0)
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Extremely nice work Stig! You are an amazing guy. Thanks. You should consider writing Workshop Manuals for Kymco in your pension after you retired. Beside starting a new career as a high quality photographer. 8) :D
The only thing I strongly miss in all kymco workshop manuals are the torque values for all the bolts, screws and nuts. Especially where we deal with the relatively soft aluminium...
"snug" is a relatively open definition for interpretation. And a snug of a strong hand is probably different from a weak hand...
What I have found throughout my reasearch in the web:
Valve Cover ~ 9NM
Spark Plug ~ 10-12NM
Valve Adjuster Screw Lock Nut ~ 5-6NM
But I don´t know if these values are correct - give or take?
Anyone out there who has all the correct torque values for the like 200i to post in an extra thread?
If you get the OEM paperback manual they have every last bolt torque, as u recall cycle pedia is pretty good at listing torque too.
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Torque is determined by the fastener, and not the application (with very few exceptions).
There are no exceptions on our bikes.
Just look up "fastener torque values"
http://www.portlandbolt.com/technicalinformation/bolt-torque-chart.html (http://www.portlandbolt.com/technicalinformation/bolt-torque-chart.html)
Sorry Zombie, I neither understand what you mean in your first sentence, nor do I understand the bolt torque chart in your second sentence.
So how is international understandability for joe sixpack defined and determined? ;)
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If you get the OEM paperback manual they have every last bolt torque, as u recall cycle pedia is pretty good at listing torque too.
Yes, B&L. I searched through several manuals, online, offline, paperbacks and so on and so foth, but the more I researched the web, the more different values for the same bolt I got....
Kymcos weak point is that they don´t have and don´t offer proper workshopmanuals, and most the others throughout the web go the easy way and "copy and paste" Kymcos faults into a new manual....
Some other use more fantasy and vary the values here and there.... What´s better? I leave it up to you.
Cyclepedia is also not the holy bible. More a copy shop.
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Here you go Robo.....(getting any riding in on your pretty LIKE over there? Pictures?!)
posted specs here ---
Stig http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=13139.0 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=13139.0)
Of course I ride my scoot. ;) :) 2500km this summer/autumn.
I am not a winter driver any more. Still need my crown jewelery. :o
More Pics next Spring.
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Yes, B&L. I searched through several manuals, online, offline, paperbacks and so on and so foth, but the more I researched the web, the more different values for the same bolt I got....
Kymcos weak point is that they don´t have and don´t offer proper workshopmanuals, and most the others throughout the web go the easy way and "copy and paste" Kymcos faults into a new manual....
Some other use more fantasy and vary the values here and there.... What´s better? I leave it up to you.
Cyclepedia is also not the holy bible. More a copy shop.
Cyclepedia is not a holy bible, the Kymco Factory Green paper manuals are the holy bible of Kymco Manuals. They are written by engineers in Taiwan from Kymco. Cyclepedia and Haynes are the same thing, they have a shop and open up bikes and do write up's on how to put things together and service etc. Cyclepedia has better pictures than Haynes and more detailed info. I have never had a problem with torque values from the OEM Kymco Shop Manual, if you have issues with online info order yourself the paper Kymco manual and everything is in there. What zombie was talking about is that almost all bolts have a standard torque value I.E. a 10mm bolt has such and such torque and a 8mm cap nut has such and such torque. The torque value of a fastener is actually the stretch of the threads measured by the torque wrench. So a bolt's torque can be determined by the size, because it has a given amount of stretch for whatever the diameter is.
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Sorry Zombie, I neither understand what you mean in your first sentence, nor do I understand the bolt torque chart in your second sentence.
So how is international understandability for joe sixpack defined and determined? ;)
The torque is rated by the fastener. Meaning it's the bolt/nut size that determines how tight it should be. The way it works is, the threads slightly distort when properly torqued to "lock" that fastener in place. Too loose, and things fall apart. Too tight, and fasteners break.
If you are attaching two flat pieces of metal together w/ a 1/4 x 20 bolt, it will be the same torque rating as if you were attaching a carb to a manifold w/ that same bolt.
There are very few exceptions... Mainly on cylinder head bolts where a specific torque is met, and then another 1/2 turn of the fastener is required. This is not the case w/ Kymco engines.
All the torque settings can be found on-line using a fastener torque chart.
I hope this helps some...
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LOL... I just looked up, and saw B&L said the same thing.
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I do not own a good torque wrench - but an OK one - that I use only to snug up CVT nuts.
I certainly do not trust it when working in alloys and smaller fasteners.
So, I use a few decades of experience working on alloy VW engines.....and 'snug it' by feel and size of the fastener.
If I did much wrenching I'd buy a very good wrench.
I suspect there might be a lot of fellows out there like me, working on their scoots and being careful.
A question - seems like somewhere recently I read about tightening a (spark plug maybe?) and then reversing the item a quarter turn - or was it forward a quater turn. No, it wasn't an oil filter - I'm pretty sure.
Any one know what I'm talking about here?
Thanks, Stig
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I do not own a good torque wrench - but an OK one - that I use only to snug up CVT nuts.
I certainly do not trust it when working in alloys and smaller fasteners.
So, I use a few decades of experience working on alloy VW engines.....and 'snug it' by feel and size of the fastener.
If I did much wrenching I'd buy a very good wrench.
I suspect there might be a lot of fellows out there like me, working on their scoots and being careful.
A question - seems like somewhere recently I read about tightening a (spark plug maybe?) and then reversing the item a quarter turn - or was it forward a quater turn. No, it wasn't an oil filter - I'm pretty sure.
Any one know what I'm talking about here?
Thanks, Stig
Thats a spark plug technique. 5/8" plug tighten snug then 1/4 turn past, 13/16" plugs tighten sung then 1/2 turn past. Oil filter some people use this also, I've NEVER had a filter come loose after screwing it on as hard as I can by hand (I can get them pretty tight!!)
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Thats a spark plug technique. 5/8" plug tighten snug then 1/4 turn past, 13/16" plugs tighten sung then 1/2 turn past. Oil filter some people use this also, I've NEVER had a filter come loose after screwing it on as hard as I can by hand (I can get them pretty tight!!)
Thanks B&L....it was one of those things I saw on the web.....then could not find again for the life of me! (I think it was re. a Denso spark plug - but couldn't locate the comment again)
I need to take notes....
Naw, I'll never do that.
Thanks, Stig
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That same method is used on alloy cylinder blocks, and most diesel engine cylinder heads.
The reason is the compression gaskets used. (same as on a spark plug)
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That same method is used on alloy cylinder blocks, and most diesel engine cylinder heads.
The reason is the compression gaskets used. (same as on a spark plug)
Oh yeah zombie you reminded me of another one, the drain plug! Not the oil screen plug but the side drain plug, with a new crush washer tighten then go 1/4 past. But only with a new crush washer, after one use it'll be flattened and not crush any more and that 1/4 turn will go towards stripping the aluminum haha
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See there... I just learned something. I never knew that.
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Answer this. Do you adjust any automobile engine valves when hot? Maybe liquid cooling makes a difference? Bikes are 50/50 both.
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Actually yes.
ALL high performance engines are adjusted hot (running temp). The only cold adjustment is to get it within running spec.
The only mainstream exception is modern overhead cam engines where there is no adjustment.
It surprised the hell out of me when I learned Kymco has no procedure/spec for adjusting hot.
I had to experiment, and create my own.
I've never done this on anything larger than a GY 6 150 but I see no reason the method will not work if the work is done quickly to ASSURE the engine is at running temp.
Ie: have the plastics removed, and the tools handy when you stop to do the work.