KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: 0Chili0 on November 07, 2014, 09:36:39 AM
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Has anyone upgraded the "normal" front brakes to ABS? If so, what where the costs involved / comments ?
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ABS would require "tone rings" on both wheels. You have one on the front wheel only. Requires also the electronic "box", a "pulsing pump and valves," extra hydraulic lines as well as the additional electrics to make the system work. This is not an impossible mod but would require a wrecked DT300i ABS to supply the parts. Good luck finding such in the US.
Karl
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Karl is right, it would be a VERY big undertaking. Basically impossible in the US where there are no crashed D/T300i ABS to get it from.
"If t doesn't have it , forget it."
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Not to mention IF you could get the parts it would be a few thousand$$$ to do, just the Bosch abs module is like $800
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According to me it would be just easier to buy a bike already equipped with abs.
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We only have the Kymco Xiting 500 ABS in the US, no Kymco 300cc or any other smaller cc with ABS, is this correct?
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We only have the Kymco Xiting 500 ABS in the US, no Kymco 300cc or any other smaller cc with ABS, is this correct?
Correct.
Thank god I have ridden for 40 years without or I'd be screwed now.... Lol
I think ABS is great but , for me, not a deal breaker.
Be Big,
AMAC
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Hmmm, I guess i will stick with what I have :) Thanks for all the replies and safe riding everyone!
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Correct.
Thank god I have ridden for 40 years without or I'd be screwed now.... Lol
I think ABS is great but , for me, not a deal breaker.
Amac, so have I ridden for 40+ years, and I had my share of fall downs, with the many miles (Iguess 200,000+) and different weather conditions. Probably 50% of those could have been avoided with ABS. Since 1996 I have had on and off ABS equipped Motorcycles, and NONE of the ABS ones were laid down. I had situations where I KNOW the ABS saved my butt.
So, I am a very firm believer, and it is a shame that in the US the scooters are not even offered as an option with ABS. In Europe ABS is basically a "must" on any 125cc scooter size and up as they are used as daily transportation and then lives depend on it much more often.
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Im with you. I tried playing with the same idea for my People. ABS is better and safer and I would love to have it on my next ride. It really should have been an option for the USA market on the DT and GT.
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What's ABS?
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What's ABS?
Is this question for real, or do you want just to be sarcastic..? :o
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Just making chit chat. :) I know it' something to do w/ Tai Bo.
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What's ABS?
Absolute Bull sh**.
Be Big,
AMAC
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Just making chit chat. :) I know it' something to do w/ Tai Bo.
How can you accuse Tai Bo of that? He's a good guy ( really !! ) .
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What's ABS?
ABS = "A Butt Saver" (Anti Blockier System, developed by Mercedes)
If it saves your butt ONE time from going down, you SAVED yourself from injuries, and usually good damage on the bike/scooter. How much for the ABS if factory installed? About $500-700. How much to fix your plastic and maybe broken bones? Let me show you..
Told my friend (about 62) to buy a ABS V-Strom. Nooo, the guy has money but is is too cheap: "don't need it" argument "have been riding for more than 40 years without ABS".
Two years later he goes down with the bike, riding a straight line, has to break hard because of a quick stop situation, hits a sandy patch on the road, and WHoosh; front wheel locks up, he wipes out... NO CHANCE of recovery.
I GUARANTEE you guys, with ABS he would NOT HAVE BEEN DOWN. Been there, done that, both ways with and without ABS.
Repair cost of his V-Strom: $3,5000.
His good Motorcycle clothing torn up: $400.
Out of work for 1 1/2 weeks. (medical bills: insurance)
After about 200,000 MILES on 2-wheelers, riding often (and still) very hard, I have "good real life-crash experience". I believe firmly in ABS as it did save my butt about 3 times since I have it, once "two up", which is even worse if you go down and (you) injure your passenger/partner.
A pity that Kymco and some others have not integrated ABS as a "standard feature" in its higher-end scooters; ANY bike that costs more than $4000 new should have ABS as a standard. PERIOD.
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ABS = "A Butt Saver" (Anti Blockier System, developed by Mercedes)
If it saves your butt ONE time from going down, you SAVED yourself from injuries, and usually good damage on the bike/scooter. How much for the ABS if factory installed? About $500-700. How much to fix your plastic and maybe broken bones? Let me show you..
Told my friend (about 62) to buy a ABS V-Strom. Nooo, the guy has money but is is too cheap: "don't need it" argument "have been riding for more than 40 years without ABS".
Two years later he goes down with the bike, riding a straight line, has to break hard because of a quick stop situation, hits a sandy patch on the road, and WHoosh; front wheel locks up, he wipes out... NO CHANCE of recovery.
I GUARANTEE you guys, with ABS he would NOT HAVE BEEN DOWN. Been there, done that, both ways with and without ABS.
Repair cost of his V-Strom: $3,5000.
His good Motorcycle clothing torn up: $400.
Out of work for 1 1/2 weeks. (medical bills: insurance)
After about 200,000 MILES on 2-wheelers, riding often (and still) very hard, I have "good real life-crash experience". I believe firmly in ABS as it did save my butt about 3 times since I have it, once "two up", which is even worse if you go down and (you) injure your passenger/partner.
A pity that Kymco and some others have not integrated ABS as a "standard feature" in its higher-end scooters; ANY bike that costs more than $4000 new should have ABS as a standard. PERIOD.
I disagree.
It should be offered as an option. One should not be forced into ABS. I won't "punctuate" the point.
I happy that you're happy with it. Your real world experiance has little bearing on mine. As far as stories of how ABS would have saved your friend from the slide, well that's just theory. I could say that in a panic , short stop the ABS MAY HAVE, notice I said may have, increased the stopping distance and allowed for a tail end crash. Just theory.
You can't make that "guarantee".
Finally and I've said this many times on other forums. If the ABS, an emergency system, is kicking in and "saving ones butt" multipule times the rider needs to look at the way he/she is riding.
Just an opinion peice here, I wont make guarantees on speculation.
Be Big,
AMAC
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Yeah, or at least of it comes standard have a toggle to turn it on/off. My main gripe about ABS on scoots is how it makes the brake feel, like an aggressive pulse on the lever. Feels awful, an i actually like to skid around in the rain for fun.
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I disagree.
I happy that you're happy with it. Your real world experiance has little bearing on mine. As far as stories of how ABS would have saved your friend from the slide, well that's just theory. I could say that in a panic , short stop the ABS MAY HAVE, notice I said may have, increased the stopping distance and allowed for a tail end crash. Just theory.
Be Big,
AMAC
There is no guarantee on anything, but yes, the emergency stop situation with a locked up front wheel he was in (and I was in before) makes it a 99.9% sure "go downer". Whatever your "opinion" is... He has a different opinion NOW, AFTER the fact, since it HURT his body AND in his VALET! Seems the disbelieve on ABS is similar to kids that one tries to tell "Don't touch that hot burner!" and they will have to experience it themselves to get "wiser"...
FYI: See the following YouTube link with comparison on KYMCO's with professional riders. It's in Spanish, even if you turn off the tone you "should" get the message loud and clear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j32751P1tQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j32751P1tQ)
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Whatever. Join my buddy one day whom I quoted above. He has a different opinion NOW AFTER, since it HURT his body AND in his VALET! Seems the disbelieve is like the same as kids that one tries to tell "Don't touch that hot burner!" and they will do it anyway, until they experience it themselves...
FYI: See the following YouTube link with comparison on KYMCO's with professional riders. It's in Spanish, even if you turn off the tone you "should" get the message loud and clear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j32751P1tQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j32751P1tQ)
You may pontificate all you like but I'll say this.
I've riden as many if not more miles than you without the multiple accidents you admit having "before ABS". You say you "ride very hard" maybe that explains your "accident experiance" , your words, and my lack there of. It's better to ride smart than to ride hard and hope technology saves your butt. Obviously before the tech you crashed enough to become "experienced" at it.
You're going to tell me not to touch the hot burner? Really....
Seems you and your boys get in an awful lot of crashes. You are in no position to pass judgement.
What a pompous fellow you are. You have a full time job worrying about yourself you shouldn't be playing road games.
AMAC
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You're going to tell me not to touch the hot burner? Really....
What a pompous fellow you are. You have a full time job worrying about yourself ....
AMAC , It seems you rather bash the messenger, than to listen objectively to factual advantages. You will have to deal with your own decision if it was right or wrong when the day may come, not I...
To everybody else: I demonstrated with a real life story above a comparison with and without ABS. I have shown the same facts with the link of a YouTube video through an independent source.
The intention was to "help" understand the advantage(s) of ABS, not to criticize people. My buddy with the Suzuki V-Strom learned it the "hard way" as we say, he waved his buddy off (in this case me) just to have "bad luck" two years later, after 40+ years "careful" riding, without previous accidents... That's all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j32751P1tQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j32751P1tQ)
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AMAC , It seems you rather bash the messenger, than to listen objectively to factual advantages. You will have to deal with your own decision if it was right or wrong when the day may come, not I...
To everybody else: I demonstrated with a real life story above a comparison with and without ABS. I have shown the same facts with the link of a YouTube video through an independent source.
The intention was to "help" understand the advantage(s) of ABS, not to criticize people. My buddy with the Suzuki V-Strom learned it the "hard way" as we say, he waved his buddy off (in this case me) just to have "bad luck" two years later, after 40+ years "careful" riding, without previous accidents... That's all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j32751P1tQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j32751P1tQ)
Now you got it.
and the real life story still ends in your theory. It's saves some not others. Follow to close and eventually the ABS will fail to bail a rider out.
AMAC
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ABS = "A Butt Saver" (Anti Blockier System, developed by Mercedes)
I GUARANTEE you guys, with ABS he would NOT HAVE BEEN DOWN. Been there, done that, both ways with and without ABS.
Repair cost of his V-Strom: $3,500...
A pity that Kymco and some others have not integrated ABS as a "standard feature" in its higher-end scooters; ANY bike that costs more than $4000 new should have ABS as a standard. PERIOD.
I second ABS. The first and only time I have had it was on my 1992 BMW K75S. Funny feeling when it kicks in it feels like someone is beating the frame of the bike with a heavy metal hammer. It kicked in one time in in Tijuana - the road had grey water flowing over it mixed with adobe clay soil is slick as ice. I put the brakes on very very gently and it still engaged the ABS in the rear and I actually had to put my foot down like riding an off road motorcycle to keep my balance as I turned onto a highway ramp. I also had a passenger.
Kymco GV 250 - Without ABS...
One day while riding on the highway there as a sudden slow down in traffic and I hit the left brake lever and rear skidded suddenly and I barely stopped in time. I was misinformed by the previous owner that the left brake lever worked both the front and rear brake equally so I always used it figuring it would wear the two equally. After I wore out the rear brake I learned this was not the case lol. I have had to retrain myself to focus on the front brake lever as that is where the real stopping power is.
From experienced to in experienced riders ABS at a minimum saves you from unnecessary crashes and damage to your machine.
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If I can I will put 3 words to the discussion:)
I ride with ABS now in my DT (European version). Earlier i had no ABS. The system gives me a lot of mental comfort as i know, that ICE i can put the brakes to their limit without the risk of locking the front wheel and meeting the ground.
As to the statement that ABS can make the braking longer. Well yes it can, however in comparison to non ABS bike where the rider locks the wheels and therefore skids it cant, as skidding is less efective stopping power than not skidding.
As to AMAC's approach. If you are so experienced you know u wont lock the wheel ABS wont bother you. This is due to the fact, that ABS starts to work not earlier than a wheel gets blocked. Therefore, with enought skill You can use a bike equipped with ABS without ever using it. However, ICE it will be there and it WILL save your as.
Peter
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If you are so experienced you know u wont lock the wheel ABS wont bother you. This is due to the fact, that ABS starts to work not earlier than a wheel gets blocked. Therefore, with enough skill You can use a bike equipped with ABS without ever using it. However, ICE it will be there and it WILL save your as.
Peter
Well said Peter, and also thanks Mrbios. Yes, it is a "sort of "INSURANCE", if one never needs it, then it is great. IF it saves your butt just ONE TIME, it is great too!
I actually agree with AMAC that I may be a "higher risk rider"; HOWEVER, it also depends WHERE one is living and riding. Flat-land, mostly straight roads Florida, or Mountains of North Carolina, Virginia and Tennessee. I have done days where I re-calculated that I rode 1000++ curves in ONE DAY, with elevation changes constantly up and down between from 1000 to 5000 feet (300- to 1500 meters). My rear tires due to the constant acceleration and deceleration lasted at best 3000 miles. So if I look statistically all the curves I drove, it is a BUNCH more risk ust due to the roads and its conditions.
I had one accident due to sand on the road before a curve, on a NON ABS bike. I bought a BMW R1100GS-ABS in 1996 and drove the heck and fast out of it. Scary looking back, but I was younger, but, I had NO lay down, whatsoever! I bought a 2000 Kawasaki Concours for touring after that and one day at 35mph I had a very unexpected situation on a straight road that caught me totally by surprise; I locked up the front wheel up in a panic situation and went instantly down. The ABS that would have saved my butt and bike right there. I was forever "healed" after that.
So, as Peter said, if one is skilled enough in breaking the little electronic brain of the ABS will most likely never kick in. BUT, there are road conditions, situations, and "Adrenaline" which are wild cards, and THAT will get the even most experienced rider.
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Hi Guys.
First off all nice to read this forum as i gathered a lot of info on my DT.
Back to subject. As I understood we all have the front brake that "looks" like abs.
With the inner ring and abs sensor.
But the difference between Abs and non abs is the rear disc?
Because I bought mine used with the seller telling me NO abs version.
The the other day went to buy some stuff for the bike in a respective shop and the mechanic there said it had ABS.
So right now I believe I do not have it but just to check with you guys.[emoji6]
Thanks,
theb
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
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If you live in the US, you definitely do not have ABS, no matter how it "looks". Was never installed on US spec Downtowns.
But the check is very simple; when you turn your ignition on (don't start), the system goes through a self-check, and at that point a ABS warning light would need to come on. If you do not see one, NO ABS present, if you see one, you have ABS. This works for ANY vehicle. (FYI: I bought an older car and nobody could tell me [asking them over the phone] if the car was equipped with ABS or not. Sent them out to the car to do this procedure and bingo, the car had ABS...
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If you live in the US, you definitely do not have ABS, no matter how it "looks". Was never installed on US spec Downtowns.
But the check is very simple; when you turn your ignition on (don't start), the system goes through a self-check, and at that point a ABS warning light would need to come on. If you do not see one, NO ABS present, if you see one, you have ABS. This works for ANY vehicle. (FYI: I bought an older car and nobody could tell me [asking them over the phone] if the car was equipped with ABS or not. Sent them out to the car to do this procedure and bingo, the car had ABS...
I live in the EU. And I have abs on my car and I do not have this procedure.
So that is why I am asking and since this is my first bike would be nice if I have abs. :-)
But i t wasn't a deal breaker when I purchased it.
Anyhow I see pictures of a few downtowns and I see some of them with bigger discs and a inner small disc with holes at the back.
I have this at the front wheel but not at the back.
Anyway thanks for reply. [emoji6]
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
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So, are you saying, when you do the gnition switch-on, you do not see a ABS light? Then you don't have it.
The ABS discs in the front are even on some US models looking like "it sould have ABS" Fooled me too on some D/T before I bought one, but it misses the actual sensors and the ABS computer module, and the rear ABS disc.
I agree with you, ABS is nice to have and and is an "insurance" especially in emergency situations (hard braking). If you do not need it, fine, if it saves you falling down ONE TIME, then it has pad for itself more than once!
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So, are you saying, when you do the gnition switch-on, you do not see a ABS light? Then you don't have it.
The ABS discs in the front are even on some US models looking like "it sould have ABS" Fooled me too on some D/T before I bought one, but it misses the actual sensors and the ABS computer module, and the rear ABS disc.
I agree with you, ABS is nice to have and and is an "insurance" especially in emergency situations (hard braking). If you do not need it, fine, if it saves you falling down ONE TIME, then it has pad for itself more than once!
When purchasing my "final" (I hope) and bigger scooter, the Burgman AN400 - ABS WAS a deal breaker with me when researching scoots. Until a mid-priced scoot comes out with all of the safety stability/traction controls which our new cars (and a few bikes) have - ABS is the next best thing and I was not paying money for any scooter that did not have it.
Stig