KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Super 9 => Topic started by: Hawkins654 on October 06, 2014, 08:04:38 PM
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I have a 07 super 9 and really want to start adding some mods to it,
But I have never done this before and need some help with whats kits to buy, what to aviod.
Nothing has been changed on the scoot and everything is stock
Thanks guys
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Welcome to the forum Hawkins,
There are not alot of choices for the S 9. Malossi makes a sport cylinder for it but no one else really makes a decent jug kit.
There are a few good pipes tho. Technigas makes the best one in my opinion. You can get an 8500 rpm pipe/19mm carb/Stage 6 MK II clutch/Top Racing variator for 5-600.00 retail or set up a dealer account at SPI or Racing Planet, and save 30-40%.
Those items should reduce you're 0-60 time by about 25%, and have you actually doing 60MPH.
I'm assuming from the year that it is an air cooled bike.
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Great stuff will look into this,
I wouldn't be doing it all at once but in stages,
What would you recommend to start with?
I've read around and the most common upgrade is the CDI is there a specific one to avoid/purchase
Yes it is a/c
Thanks for the help
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I would start w/ the CDI/CDI adapter, and the variator.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/converter-naraku-racing-kymco-p-3414-1.html?cPath=2_22_150 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/converter-naraku-racing-kymco-p-3414-1.html?cPath=2_22_150)
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/unit-naraku-tuning-kymco-peugeot-immobilizer-p-2378-1.html (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/unit-naraku-tuning-kymco-peugeot-immobilizer-p-2378-1.html)
This is listed for the ZX 50 but it is the same as the S9 (horizontal/short boss)
http://www.mhr-usa.com/scooter-variator-kits/jasil-sv1-variator-kit-for-kymco-2-stroke.html (http://www.mhr-usa.com/scooter-variator-kits/jasil-sv1-variator-kit-for-kymco-2-stroke.html)
From there go for the carb/manifold/manifold adapter, and pipe.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-adapter-malossi-kymco-sf10-p-368-1.html?cPath=2_22_140 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-adapter-malossi-kymco-sf10-p-368-1.html?cPath=2_22_140)
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/intake-manifold-20mm-racing-kymco-p-250-1.html?cPath=2_22_140 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/intake-manifold-20mm-racing-kymco-p-250-1.html?cPath=2_22_140)
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-naraku-flat-slide-racing-21mm-p-21455-1.html?cPath=2_22_140 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-naraku-flat-slide-racing-21mm-p-21455-1.html?cPath=2_22_140)
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/exhaust-system-tecnigas-trek-kymco-horizontal-p-7184-1.html?cPath=2_22_144 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/exhaust-system-tecnigas-trek-kymco-horizontal-p-7184-1.html?cPath=2_22_144)
Next would be the cylinder kit, and clutch.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/cylinder-malossi-sport-with-head-70cc-kymco-horizontal-p-228-1.html?cPath=2_22_140 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/cylinder-malossi-sport-with-head-70cc-kymco-horizontal-p-228-1.html?cPath=2_22_140)
https://www.scooter-attack.com/shop/# (https://www.scooter-attack.com/shop/#)!/en/Clutches/Midrace-High-End/S65014012-Clutch-Stage6-Torque-Control-MKII-107mm.html
There's a few other bits like a Malossi red contra spring, a hundred different jets/slide needles/rollers, ect
This should get you going.
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I like putting pipe and variator first you will feel more differance in that combination than any i think yhe technigas triops or rs2 is best pipes and some 5.5 gram rollers will make good change in performance but zombie knows alot so either way will work
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I have 04 lc and i have airsal t6 70cc kit technigas next r chrome pipe and gears mine will run well over 60 easy havent gps yet but it is fast only had for about month i ordered parts from racing planet over three weeks ago havent got parts so unless you have to order from there dont i would order scoottunning.ca
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Sorry scooter tuning.ca
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I 100% agree about Racing Planet being slow in most cases. I only use them because they are easy to get a dealer account thru. 30-40% off is worth the wait (in most cases).
There is also Treatland on Ca. Benji is the man there.
I listed the parts in an easy to tune fashion. That order will save you 1/2 a dozen re-tune or re-jetting sessions.
The Tri-ops is a bad ass pipe but its better suited for 90-125cc's, and the power band is above what the Malossi sport runs at.
Also the Arisol kit is Nicasil plated. I HATE plated cylinders.... Just my choice. You cant chamfer the ports or hone the cylinder w/o getting them re-plated. That costs as much as a new Malossi (dealer cost)
No diss MadDog. You're help, and experience are a valuable asset here. I just have my methods/parts list, and you have yours. Either way 60+ MPH is a reasonable/respectable goal.
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Yes i agree but u dont think he us planning messing with it right out the box the airsal makes more power but for someone like you that knows how to make there own power the malossi is better
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And mine being water cooled makes huge difference in making the alum kit last longer lol
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Forgot about the water cooling... You're spot on there.
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What do you think best pipe for mine us u have a next r chrome on it do you think tge rs2 wouls bw better or not fir my setup
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I ran the RS II for 3+ years, and liked it. I still have it actually. The Trek that I linked makes slightly more power especially in the power band. I think it's a better match for the Malossi.
I don't know what the TGE RS II is.
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Sorry didnt mean to put that i meant to put the rs2 do you think the technigas next r chromes are anygood i have never had kymcos before but i got a cobra and i loved it so looked for super 9 only found one it took me two years to talk him out of it they couldnt get to run right it was scooter shop well he said he had 1200 in it he said he would take 600 i said i would give him 500 it has 7000 km but i got it took home put stock air box on it fixed it.it had cone filter it was running way to lean it wouldnt even go but i rode it up to that shop about hour after getting it they was pissed
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The RS II is a good choice. The chrome is bullet proof, and the metal is thick enough to last for years.
For a daily driver it will be money well spent.
It's more of a 7500-8k pipe so You don't have to hang on the throttle to make power. Match it up w/ some 5-6 gram rollers, yellow Stage 6 fly springs w/ two brass weights in the shoes, and a Malossi purple contra spring, and it will rip
That's a little different than the CVT set up for the Trek pipe.
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Thanks zombie about how fast do you guess my top end speed will be i have 11.5 to 1 gears airsal 70cc lc top end 6 gram rollers unrestricted cdi and technigas next r chrome pipe still orderi.g parts i will order those springs and contra and brass weights tomorrow thanks again
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Your stall point is the rear gears. You will easily reach 60, and do it pretty quickly but at 11:1 you will be at or about 8500-9k rpm.
I would contact Josh at http://www.thescootergarage.com (http://www.thescootergarage.com)
Tell him I sent ya, and ask what he has for a better gear ratio. You will be able to reach 65+ with a 7-8:1 ratio, and cruise at 60 all day around 7500-8k rpm.
These are tough ass engines, and they can/do take it.
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Thanks zombie will they handle 10k or not good for them i run my cobra 9k it is bone stock just pipe
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Why does it say you are banned and not trusted by admin lol
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My ZX is dialed in at 9.5 - 10.5k. It runs 65-70MPH all day (7.3:1 gears).
From 10.5k the Ign timing (HPI Programable CDI) slopes to 3* BTDC at 13.8k, and 82 MPH. There is no real power in this over rev but it keeps the bike humming.
These engines can handle a sport kit w/ no problems.
LOL the Avatar... I found that, and banned myself. Someone had too!
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Where did you get that cdi
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From Horse Power Ignition in Belgium, http://www.hpi.be (http://www.hpi.be)
I bought a complete ignition system from them for just under 600.00 US.
I think just the CDI sells for 245.00, and I'm not sure but I remember the interface "dongle" is 45.00 (computer interface).
I have a second HPI/CDI that will fire off an OEM pulsar coil, and work w/ any ignition coil. It's brand new, and only been test fired for a fair price if you are interested.
Benji from Treatland sells a sh** load of them if you want more info. Or you can Email HPI. They are great guys,although I did have some software issues that took forever to straighten out. It's a smack up, does what you want it to do set up. I never could have tuned my bike correctly w/o it.
Our OEM or "performance" CDI's are like buying a carb that can not accept new jets. You can never get to real power or over rev without tweaking the Ign curve.
For a daily driver it is over kill. But for a wannabee race bike (70mph +) it's the real deal.
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How much differance would it make on my super 9 and how much do you want and its just cdi thats it right?
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How much differance would it make on my super 9 and how much do you want and its just cdi thats it right?
With a mild sport kit, and all the goodies lets say you get 65, and approach 70 on a good day. Also lets say it takes 10 seconds to reach that speed.
What the Ign. will do is give you a couple seconds off the ET maybe 8 seconds now, and if you tune the curve correctly you can increase your top rpm, and speed by maybe 2-3 MPH, and another 1k rpm above the factory red line.
Read up on it before you get antsy. The software is free, and available at HPI's web site. It's called "Tune Box". The dongle can be ordered thru Treatland... https://www.treatland.tv/new-puch-peugeot-motobecane-vespa-moped-parts-s/88.htm (https://www.treatland.tv/new-puch-peugeot-motobecane-vespa-moped-parts-s/88.htm)
If you like what you see I'll sell it for 100.00, and you pay shipping. I can pre program a base line curve into it for you, and you will be able to plug it in to any computer, and see where it is set. You can also modify that according to your needs.
It's all not gravy tho. Setting too much advance at any given point leads to destructive pre-detonation, and blown piston domes.
You have to have an experienced ear for your engine or an Exhaust gas Temp. gauge to know what is happening in the cylinder.
I just happen to have another brand new EGT too. That one has no sensor probe (I bought it as a back up to mine) but they are readily available on FleaBay for 20 bucks.
If your interested I'll throw in the gauge for 15 bucks. (cost 25+ new).
Beyond that... I have some Presa Canarios for sale too. Maybe an old fridge...
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Lol i will look into it thanks i will let you know i appriciate your help i want to make this thing fast for scooter
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I looked didnt find anythung called tunebox and that is for the super 9 i didnt see anything there for super9
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And you wont... It's a universal kit, and the software is for all their cdi's
http://www.hpi.be/068.php?cyl=1 (http://www.hpi.be/068.php?cyl=1) full kit
http://www.hpi.be/downloads.php (http://www.hpi.be/downloads.php) scroll down to "Downloads"
I checked what I have, and I also have an inner rotor. Not the whole stator kit but if you price it all out you will save around 200.00, if you want my stuff.
I'm really just sitting on it cause it is single purpose. You have to want to get into custom tuning or it is a HUGE waste.
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I want to make it a beast but i would need some advice to get started but i am a mechanic so im not stupid but never done anything like that to.a scooter
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Then you understand ignition curves.
All of the 50 - 150 cc Kymco scooters have the same curve. They begin at 24* BTDC, and straight line to 0* at 9k. Thats the sole reason none of them make power after approx 7k. = 3*
I set my initial timing to 32* BTDC, and sloped it to 22* at 8.5k.
When the pipe, and cylinder come together at 9.5 the timing is 20*. I keep it there till 10.5, and slope it straight down to 3* BTDC at 14k.
I kept it high in beginning /trial runs but found bad Pre det the both in the power band, and in the over rev ranges.
The EGT also confirmed this with dropping exhaust temp. (meaning the piston was holding the heat, and the timing was too far advanced)
Every 5* I dropped the timing was showing a 50* rise in temp in the pipe.
I followed that to achieve a steady 950*f in the pipe at 6" from the header.
Like I said you can do this by ear but the gauge really helps settle any doubts, and second guessing.
On the "Kymco Links" thread, 2nd page 1/2 way down is a link to a couple of books .
Two stroke tuning by Gramm Bell, is the better of the two but they are both good.
I read cover to cover several times to get all this straight in my head.
I have owned 2t bikes since I was 13, and learned quite a lot. Those books explained to me what I knew, and what made the things I knew happen.
Since there are so few cylinder choices for the S 9... You might want to consider some custom porting of whatever cylinder you wind up with.
Rule of thumb... Taller ports (closer to the head) make more power but narrow the usable power band, and raises the rpm that band kicks in at. Perfect for drag bikes.
Lowering the ports makes less power but allows for a wider band, and lower cruise rpm.
Check out the books.
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Thanks zombie you know your stuff i appriciate your advise and i want those parts you have so what else would i need to go with it and how will we do the deal i live indiana
I think it will be a beast with that cdi so tell me exactly what else i would need to make it right for my super9 lc snd how high are these safe to rev do you think with stock crank and will my next r pipe be good enough thanks alot for your infirmation it will help me alot. I advanced timing on my zuma myself by longating the holes it made big differance i waas surprised in the differance is it easy to do on the kymco to?
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Ok being that mine is water cooled what bbk do you think is best for custom build
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Thanks zombie you know your stuff i appriciate your advise and i want those parts you have so what else would i need to go with it and how will we do the deal i live indiana
I think it will be a beast with that cdi so tell me exactly what else i would need to make it right for my super9 lc snd how high are these safe to rev do you think with stock crank and will my next r pipe be good enough thanks alot for your infirmation it will help me alot. I advanced timing on my zuma myself by longating the holes it made big differance i waas surprised in the differance is it easy to do on the kymco to?
I'll put together a parts list on this thread w/ the links you need for the dongle, ect...
We can payPal the deal so no issues there... I'll PM you w/ those details.
You can elongate the pulsar coil holes, and get a few degrees of advance. They also make an off set woofruff ket that fits Kymco. that adds another 3 degrees. Racing Planet has those.
I was thinking you had an AC engine. That Arisol BBK might be the only real option. Ask Josh at The Scooter Garage if there is a better kit. That I don't know.
If you combine the advance of the pulsar coil (approx 5*) w/ the woodruff keys 3*'s you will bring the initial advance up to 32* which is perfect. It will keep your power band timing low/safe but you will not make peak power nor will you get any over rev from the engine. It will sort of just stop making any usable power after approx 9k. If Josh has time to spare it may be worth your while to talk to him about this or refer him to this thread for his input.
The gains from the HPI are small but if you want to squeeze out all the usable power it is a 100% needed mod. I don't want to talk you into or out of it. I will let it all go for a more than fair price if you decide you want to get into hyper tuning the bike.
No worries on the crank at all. Kymco cranks/bearings/cases are bullet proof. I'v got a 44mm stuffed stroker crank in mine now, and trust me... I put that bike thru HELL! the OEM crank is in a spare engine I bought, and set up w/ a 50mm Jiangwayne jug. I can't kill the bottom end on these.
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Hey thanks for advise and just let me know about those parts and pm when you have it ready i can paypal you when ready