KymcoForum.com
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: 08087 on September 28, 2014, 09:43:20 PM
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Countries like the US are spread out, hence the need for independent transportation, the question I have is, will a scoot ever become the main form of independent transportation in places like the US?
My feeling is NO, someone will developed an electric car with enough range that even if gas reaches $10 a gal we'll have an alternative. Scoots don't provide comfort, and room for carrying things that Americans expect and have become accustomed to.
On a personal note I like the idea that there aren’t many of us on the road, the more of us there are the more the police will pay attention.
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It's a shame people don't take more to scooters here. Distance, and hair-doos are more important to Americans.
I stopped driving cars about 16 years ago, and will never own one again.
What I found is riding bikes changes almost every aspect of your life. It starts w/ weather issues, and cumulates w/ distances.
I changed my lifestyle to accommodate these issues, and have never looked back. Not once.
I figured out here once that I used around 100 gallons of fuel in my 50cc scoots last year. When I was caging it that would have been about 3 weeks of fuel or 1,700 gallons a year/25,500 over 15 years x 3 bucks a gallon AVG = 76,500 bucks.
100x 15 = 1500 x 3bucks $4,500.00. That's a fuel savings of $72,000.00.
Never mind the Maintenance, and Insc.
That buys a LOT of hippie grass, and flower decals. (Maybe that's why I lose everything)
Add tires/brakes x 4, Insc., title fees ect...
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I'm in the same boat except it's only been 3 or 4 years since owning a car. It's an awesome change, and it that's crazy to think about saving $70k haha. I started working at a shop when gas hit $6/ gal and EVERYONE bought a scooter. We literally sold multiple bikes per day in the summer. Once gas prices go up everyone living "comfortably" driving their death machine suvs and trucks will be scrambling to come up with transportation that doesn't cost $300 to fill up. But there is the problem, Americans for the most part see scooters as A) toys for girls or B) tools of last resort. Granted they are really not great for long distance commuting, and this isn't good for people that commute 100+ miles a day. I've sat in traffic on my scooter before, wondering how cool it would be if everyone in a particular traffic jam was on a scooter, but then I also realize how bad everyone is at driving and start to rethink that idea. I don't believe scooters will ever be a large part of transportation in the USA like they are in Europe or Asia.
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I bought my scoot because it's hard parking a car in the big city, and you can make your way around traffic if there is a jam (which happens all too much). When Storm Sandy hit our area I was one of the few that had transportation as there was no power to the gas stations to pump fuel and those that had it ran out quick.
Having 3 cars in the family I filled all the tanks prior to the storm and just sucked gas out as I needed it. The looks on the faces of those in gas lines was priceless. I never got more questions at stop signs traffic lights etc. People hearing almost 70 MPG in the city was eye opening, but as soon as prices went down and fuel started flowing that all stopped.
I do most everything on my scoot, temps don't bother me at all, but food shopping rain and snow get the car treatment as it's simply safer. Oh and the Prowler comes out when I feel the need foreed and a little showing off.
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Seems like a fun adventure to ride around in storm aftermath. Here in Oregon we don't even know the word hurricane
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Judging by the memberships on a few different distillation forums... You don't need hurricanes up there. Every day I see two to three new members from the pacific north west.
I often wonder where they get all the sugar up there.
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Seems like a fun adventure to ride around in storm aftermath. Here in Oregon we don't even know the word hurricane
No not fun. My hood after Sandy.
(http://scooter-gimp.smugmug.com/MISC/i-bTCD3K2/0/M/image-M.jpg)
Be Big,
AMAC
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No not fun. My hood after Sandy.
(http://scooter-gimp.smugmug.com/MISC/i-bTCD3K2/0/M/image-M.jpg)
Be Big,
AMAC
I'll second that! My up north house was fine (high ground) but my shore house had to be torn down and rebuilt, still trying to get a CO on it. Almost lost my boat, only a chain link fence stood in the way of it floating out to sea.
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Should have tugged on the "This Old House" crew while they were up there.
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Sorry no offence meant, and the damage is horrible. I meant fun in the surreal end of the world sense.
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Countries like the US are spread out, hence the need for independent transportation, the question I have is, will a scoot ever become the main form of independent transportation in places like the US?
My feeling is NO, someone will developed an electric car with enough range that even if gas reaches $10 a gal we'll have an alternative. Scoots don't provide comfort, and room for carrying things that Americans expect and have become accustomed to.
On a personal note I like the idea that there aren’t many of us on the road, the more of us there are the more the police will pay attention.
Well....I have to put that down as a maybe. The reason is simple. URBANIZATION.
Even here in the south we are seeing more demand for public transportation and rail systems. Cars are becoming more and more pricier well wages are stagnant. Student debt is at a all time high. Add in the hidden costs of owning a car (insurance, maintenance and parking) and it becomes clear that owning a car may be beyond most peoples ability right now. I've not even mentioned gas costs yet or environmental concerns yet.
The need for personal transportation has lead to ride sharing services like "Ubar" for example. The growth of scooters over the last several years all reflect this.
Well I do agree that I think American's will embrace the scooter more and more, I don't see the day it becomes our main means of transport. The country is just to big and with to much variation in temperatures and weather to make the scooter effective in large parts of the country.
So...maybe in the larger cities. Less so in the mid west and in parts of the south.
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You can never tell guys... when i was a little boy, scoots are for sissies and girls here on the islands... Now, I ride one.. Lol!... The problem is the ol' American male ego!!! deymn!!! Time will tell...
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Sorry no offence meant, and the damage is horrible. I meant fun in the surreal end of the world sense.
No worries I get what you meant.
Be Big,
AMAC
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Hey Vivo, We miss ya bud. It's easy to sooth the Ego... Hang a deer skull for a front fender, and paint the plastics OD Green,
A few holes in the pipe, and Bruce Willis would want one.
Good points HoundGuy. Out here in the sticks you are stuck on a scooter. That's not such a bad thing in the long run tho.
I forgot about parking costs too. When I left NY 16 or so years ago, a parking garage in Manhattan was well over 1,300.00 a month. I thought that was insane then... I can't imagine what they charge today.
That's the other big issue. You can't put down a cup of coffee in the city w/o having some POS steal it. Never mind a 3-4k scooter.
Jokes on us eh?
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I miss ya all man! time's tough... very tough.... tough times won't last,,,,, tough people do.... see you soon....
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They will become more popular as transport in time.
We, the horsepower generation,,will need to die off and rot first. It's coming kids don't give a rats butt about HP for the most part. Look who buys those little insect looking cars. More people less space.
In time.....
Be Big,
AMAC
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You can never tell guys... when i was a little boy, scoots are for sissies and girls here on the islands... Now, I ride one.. Lol!... The problem is the ol' American male ego!!! deymn!!! Time will tell...
Scoots are still for sissies. You ought to hear me laughing and singing like a little girl as I ride along the country roads in my kevlar "Mom Jeans" - watching the sun come up over my tachometer!
(I figured out who I was one sunny day, up to my chin in liquid sh_t by the berm of a paddy dike. Being the only remaining platoon medic I was pretty sure I was going to expire. Either today from old Luke-The-G__k and his mortors & RPGs - or from the stuff we were swallowing. You see, the Vietnamese empty their 'night soil' pots into the paddies to add nutrients to the rice plants.)(I understand Luke now has a job making CBR250Rs and Metropolitans.....crazy old world)
Stig
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Kick ass, and don't bother taking names.
We're all here for ya Vivo.
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yeah sissies... even harleys have sissy bars! ;D ;D ;D
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Scooters and mopeds are for smart people...because we are the not paying for insurance .the high gas price.and the the repairs.that bigger cars and truck pay for.
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To sum it up.... I live in a country that has more than 3 million scoots and motorbikes... a lot? no... vietnam has more than 20 million.... My point is.... scoots are basic transportation in these parts of the world... gas prices is not an issue, insurance is not an issue... being cool or not is not an issue... motor oil is not an issue... we just need to go from point A to B... thats all...
By the way... If storms and typhoons becomes more frequent... I will trade my scoot with a Jet ski.... good night...
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Funny you happen to mention both Viet Nam, and jet ski's in the same post.
I've been developing a dual sport hydrofoil type sailing vessel. I can't really say exactly what it is yet but, Viet Nam has come up as the number one option for production facilities down the road. Singapore was a strong contender but living there is tough, )ie restrictive/expensive/crowded.
Sorry to change the subject like that. It just has been the only thing on my agenda... Researching the best way to develop a start up empire.
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You can never tell guys... when i was a little boy, scoots are for sissies and girls here on the islands... Now, I ride one.. Lol!... The problem is the ol' American male ego!!! deymn!!! Time will tell...
So are you a sissy or a girl? LOL! Glad to see you post up here. I'm still thinking electric cars will be the future.
as far as mass transit goes, if I were anyone that doesn't have it and the govt. proposes it, shoot down any form of rail line in favor of a bus line. Rail lines will not pay for themselves. On top of that the citizens cannot compete with it. If you encourage a bus line at some future point the civilians can start a small bus company and expand, competing with the govt. run business.
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NO. Most of us dress to well to ride scoots or bikes to work everyday and then our distances here for our commutes exceed anything in most other countries.
Sam:)
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I went to High school w/ the fella that started the Hampton Jittney.
He started w/ ONE 1972 ford econoline van, and is now a billionaire.
Something to be said for private bus lines.. http://www.hamptonjitney.com (http://www.hamptonjitney.com)
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I don't think scooters will ever be as big, here in the States, as they are in Europe and Asia for a couple of reasons.
1. In Europe, and more so in Asia, scooters (and motorcycles) are used as primary transport for a lot more of the people. They are treated as basic, economical, utilitarian machines. People there ride their scoots everyday, for all their daily transportation needs. And, they seem to keep their scoots and bikes longer, and ride them till the wheels fall off.
Plus, Europe and Asia, don't seem to have the same motorcycle snobbery that America has. At least, not as bad.
Here in the U.S., while there are a few of us who have forsaken the cager lifestyle, the overwhelming majority of American riders only see bikes of any kind as recreational vehicles. Fair weather play-toys! If it's warm and sunny outside, the bikes come out, and they ride like it's their whole life. As soon as it's a little chilly out, or there's a 5% chance that a drop of rain MIGHT fall, then the bikes and scoots are locked up in the garage and they run back to the comfort and protection of their cars and trucks. For that reason, most Americans only want the biggest, loudest, and most obnoxious ride they can get (Harley). And they seem to not keep them for very long, and trade them in every time the next new thing comes out.
2. In the States, we have virtually NO aftermarket support for scooters. So there's almost no options for customizing our rides. The only options for us is to either find connections with overseas parts makers, and pay a fortune for shipping costs, or to custom make our own mod parts. And as much as I hate to say it, MOST Americans are too freakin' lazy to put that much effort into it.
Look at just about any Harley Davidson. 99.99% of the "CUSTOM" Harleys out there, are nothing but a bunch of off-the-shelf parts that are just bolt on styling touches.
With most of our scoots, the only things available are some aftermarket windscreens, top cases for the back, and some performance mods for the folks dedicated enough to put the work into it.
For anything else, it's either DIY or don't do it at all!
If we had the same level of aftermarket support as motorcycles do, I think A LOT more Americans would take a more serious look at scooters.
3. Finally (and this is just my goofy brain at work), I think a lot of Americans don't ride scooters, because there is NO scooter on the market that says Harley Davidson on it!
If Harley designed, and built a motorscooter, there would be American buyers lined up out the door to buy one! Granted, half of them wouldn't start and the other half would spend more time broke down on the side of the road than actually being ridden, but American buyers would buy them, just because it would be something new and different from the "Mother Company".
But that's just my opinion! ;)
Duke- 8)
FYI-- Despite the way it sounds....NO, I don't have anything personal against Harley Davidson! I have MANY friends who are Harley guys. Harley was just the easiest, and most obvious example to use! :D
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Harley Topper is a scooter! ;)
In Eurasia, scooters are much less common as motorcycles (with big wheels and ground clearance).
Ride on Indian (etc.) roads and you know why.
In the near future I can't see any demand for the US to encourage in 2-wheelers. They will probably arrange just another "war for freedom/justice/against terror/..." to rape oil-wells and continue as usual.
Their artificial modern cities are wide enough to suffer only modest traffic jams (older NY may be an exception of this rule, but still no comparison to Mumbai or Bangkok).
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This is a great thread. You guys all bring up some very insightful points.
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When the Japanese introduced "small" cars to the U.S. ... Americans did not see them to last long in the market long... Americans would never buy small cars, they said... what do you see now? ;)
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Are you bashing American'ts again? You think driving clown cars is funny eh? You're right.
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And you made that AMC Gremlin!!! Hahahahahahaha!!!!!
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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If the world is really running out of oil, scooters will play a bigger part in everyday transportation.
On top of that, the performance of modern scooters has improve dramaticly. People are beginning to discover this.
Personally, I think scooters sales will slowely increase in years to come for various reasons.
We have two scooters in our family. That says something.
Serious pollution problems may come into play in years to come which should also help scooter sales.
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I agree Boo... ;)
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Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My mom drove a yellow AMC Pacer w/ wood grain doors... Sigh!
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I don't think scooters will ever be as big, here in the States, as they are in Europe and Asia for a couple of reasons.
3. Finally (and this is just my goofy brain at work), I think a lot of Americans don't ride scooters, because there is NO scooter on the market that says Harley Davidson on it!
If Harley designed, and built a motorscooter, there would be American buyers lined up out the door to buy one! Granted, half of them wouldn't start and the other half would spend more time broke down on the side of the road than actually being ridden, but American buyers would buy them, just because it would be something new and different from the "Mother Company".
But that's just my opinion! ;)
Duke- 8)
FYI-- Despite the way it sounds....NO, I don't have anything personal against Harley Davidson! I have MANY friends who are Harley guys. Harley was just the easiest, and most obvious example to use! :D
Oh but HD did make a scooter or 2 in it's day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_Topper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_Topper)
http://www.usscootermuseum.com/topper.htm (http://www.usscootermuseum.com/topper.htm)
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It looks like one of the "soap box derby" vehicles. No wonder scooters suck in America.
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Oh but HD did make a scooter or 2 in it's day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_Topper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_Topper)
http://www.usscootermuseum.com/topper.htm (http://www.usscootermuseum.com/topper.htm)
Yeah, I've seen that before. From all I've ever read about them, they were crap! Harley never really looked that direction again.
Maybe, if their new 750cc and 500cc bikes get a following, they might think about the scooter idea again. But I won't hold my breath on that one! ;D
Duke- 8)
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If they put out horizontal engine dirt trackers... I'd be interested. You can't buy one of the originals for less than 20g's now.
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Yeah, I've seen that before. From all I've ever read about them, they were crap! Harley never really looked that direction again.
Maybe, if their new 750cc and 500cc bikes get a following, they might think about the scooter idea again. But I won't hold my breath on that one! ;D
Duke- 8)
If I remember right they even "Badged" a moped back in the 70's.
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In my opinion, scooters will never be the main means of transport in the U.S. There are certain regions where it becomes too cold to ride in the winter months. Cities such as Los Angeles, CA, Seattle, WA, Portland, Ore, San Francisco, CA, and Austin, TX will always welcome scooters. I know that Austin has two scooter rallies every year which says something about the influence of them. I know here in Vegas, scooters will never be accepted as a an alternative means of transport. Now that the weather is nice, I have been riding my 125 scoot to work over the last few days and I still get no respect from the drivers here. I will be in the left lane and the cars behind me will either go into the center, or right traffic lanes. It does not matter that my bike can easily keep up with traffic. The general public wants scooters off the road. I ride because I love riding my scooter.
Another factor is reputation and lack of education on scooters. Those who ride in their cages have never rode any two wheel vehicle unless they rode a 10 speed bicycle. When I first rode my 50cc scooter, I was scared sh**less because their was no protection. In the car, there is protection from the elements. With scooters, one is exposed to the elements which they cannot control. When I started to ride, I actually enjoyed riding. It was so much fun. If the public would actually take the time to experience the joy of riding on two wheels, then scooters would be respected. Since the cagers have not been on a two wheel motor bike, they think they those who ride are so poor that this is all they can afford which is not true. I have my car, but I prefer taking the scooter over the bike. I love the power of just twisting the throttle and away I go in just seconds. This is a natural high for me.
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Quote: KingKymco
" This is a natural high for me."
The heart of the matter. Motorcycles/scooters/skateboards/surfboards/snow skis, and custom bicycles. In that order. It's a natural high. 8)
Cars are too dangerous.
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There are no real rules in transportation guys... you can ride a cow, a horse, or a hummer if you want.... decisions on what to ride just happen.... depending on your wants or needs... too cold? wear a jacket... slippery? slow down... too hot? get a t-shirt... ;)
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In my opinion, scooters will never be the main means of transport in the U.S. There are certain regions where it becomes too cold to ride in the winter months. Cities such as Los Angeles, CA, Seattle, WA, Portland, Ore, San Francisco, CA, and Austin, TX will always welcome scooters. I know that Austin has two scooter rallies every year which says something about the influence of them. I know here in Vegas, scooters will never be accepted as a an alternative means of transport. Now that the weather is nice, I have been riding my 125 scoot to work over the last few days and I still get no respect from the drivers here. I will be in the left lane and the cars behind me will either go into the center, or right traffic lanes. It does not matter that my bike can easily keep up with traffic. The general public wants scooters off the road. I ride because I love riding my scooter.
Another factor is reputation and lack of education on scooters. Those who ride in their cages have never rode any two wheel vehicle unless they rode a 10 speed bicycle. When I first rode my 50cc scooter, I was scared sh**less because their was no protection. In the car, there is protection from the elements. With scooters, one is exposed to the elements which they cannot control. When I started to ride, I actually enjoyed riding. It was so much fun. If the public would actually take the time to experience the joy of riding on two wheels, then scooters would be respected. Since the cagers have not been on a two wheel motor bike, they think they those who ride are so poor that this is all they can afford which is not true. I have my car, but I prefer taking the scooter over the bike. I love the power of just twisting the throttle and away I go in just seconds. This is a natural high for me.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Scooters in this country are sometimes referred to as mopeds (a completely different breed) and motorcycles "have" to be "Harleys" to qualify as a bike at all. However that being said at one time in the USA you would never consider buying a foreign car. Or be caught dead in a car other than black, white, or navy. Times change, people become more open to ideas. I still think a combination of everything we've discussed so far will lead to scooters being more accepted in the USA.
Once again however I don't see them becoming the "primary" vehicle in the market.
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I live in Belgium (Western Europe - in between France and Germany),
and i bought a big scoot for the following reasons:
- avoid traffic jams
- less fuel consumption
- large storage capabilities
- no parking fee
- subjective feeling of freedom
I use it both for work and off-work. No touring - i dont see the point.
As others here, the car i use maybe 5%.
I miss on the highway a seperate line when traffic jam.
I miss a roof like the BMW C1 - one that would be fast and easy to take on/off.
For cold weather i use electrical clothing from Gerbing & have driven effortless subzero.
Its a shame to see in the trafficjams 75% of the cars are being occupied solo and whitout serious luggage.
The car is more luxourious and therefore will stay most popular cause people are lazy.
I aspire a whole new set of traffic rules but thats another post...
Not sure if all of this is on-topic but in sum i would say it will increase and espicially electrical.
regards
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Nice post!
That seems to be the general agreement. People that ride scooters are just all around better people.
People that don't are lazy slobs.
Hurray for the good team!
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I pulled up to work the other morning, and a colleague was walking up to the door where I park my scooter as I was taking off my helmet and gloves. He asked me if it took me extra time to get all my gear on each morning (more gear when colder). I said yes, it did, but nothing beats a ride on the scooter when you're all toasty warm and comfortable. For me, that is a small trade-off for being able to ride to work each day. Most people will never understand taking the extra time or effort just to be able to ride a scooter to work each day. But as my dentist, who also rides, is fond of saying, "riding on two wheels is the closest I'll ever come to flying." I doubt that Americans will ever give up their padded cages, but some of us know better! And the number is growing - there are now 2 of us at work who ride scooters to work (his is a Buddy 125). We have threatened to start a scooter gang! :)
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I have said this a few times here... When I moved to Carrabelle there were no scooters here. I brought the first one that got ridden daily.
Within a year there were 8-9 of us riding daily (I found 6-7 of those bikes for people). I've been here 9 years, and there are around 60-70ish scooters riding almost daily in a town of 2,300 people. I sold four scooters I was holding for parts/rat bikes in the last 6 weeks.
The numbers are growing.
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see? ;)
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This news story from the local news channel proves why scooters will never be the main means of transportation. You have to go down on their facebook page to see how the majority of people in Vegas feel about scooters. They literally hate us. Basically it comes down to morons making stupid comments such ban scooters, they are too slow, they hold up traffic, they do not need a license and helmet to ride, their so dangerous, and why do the politicians allow them to ride. I know they do not know what they are talking about. https://www.facebook.com/FOX5LasVegas (https://www.facebook.com/FOX5LasVegas) :-\
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Here is the full story as to what happen. I know the area since I go by it almost everyday on my way to work. http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/26756660/scooter-rider-hit-injured-by-suv-in-southeast-valley (http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/26756660/scooter-rider-hit-injured-by-suv-in-southeast-valley)
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LOL @the comments on that post. I feel sorry for you, Vegas sounds like it sucks ass, hot and ass holes everywhere. At least in Portland the ass holes are used to somewhat sharing the road due to the bicycle movement here. I can't believe the ignorance of the comments, all from people that have never ridden two wheels. I agree on one point, if its a 49cc out should be on 40mph or less roads or slower if you can't go 40. But people that want to go 45 in a 35 have no right to get mad at a scooter doing 35 in a 35. Remind me to bring a gun if i ever go to Vegas (just kidding I seems like hell to me).
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This reply is on Facebook under the Scooter/Nissan Pathfinder wreck https://www.facebook.com/FOX5LasVegas: (https://www.facebook.com/FOX5LasVegas:) From Nick Arthur-Vittorio Poma: Ron when scooters are in the middle of the lane that is the scooters fault. Scooters have the same laws as bikes. Stay to the right not right in the middle of a lane. I hit one and it was hilarious. The cops showed up and asked me if I wanted to press charges because the scooter was completely at fault.
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That is exactly what is wrong with people these days. Even if the scooter was at fault when has it been "funny" to hit ANYONE? Is that true worth Vegas moped laws? Anyone? I have never heard that, it's 30mph or slower usually.
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I have said this a few times here... When I moved to Carrabelle there were no scooters here. I brought the first one that got ridden daily.
Within a year there were 8-9 of us riding daily (I found 6-7 of those bikes for people). I've been here 9 years, and there are around 60-70ish scooters riding almost daily in a town of 2,300 people. I sold four scooters I was holding for parts/rat bikes in the last 6 weeks.
The numbers are growing.
Zombie,
We've been looking to move to Fl. for over a decade now, never been able to pull the string. I looked up your area out of curiosity, what a great place for a single man, should I divorce my wife, LOL! :)
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Here is the full story as to what happen. I know the area since I go by it almost everyday on my way to work. http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/26756660/scooter-rider-hit-injured-by-suv-in-southeast-valley (http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/26756660/scooter-rider-hit-injured-by-suv-in-southeast-valley)
Those people commenting are all right. I am a menace, and I am dangerous on the streets.
I hold up traffic just cause I can, and I make the rain.
Good thing they have NO FRIGGIN' CLUE! I do love a heard of sheep tho. Is it a "heard" or flock...
I heard of sheep but I NEVER flocked one.
Waiting for me to say "yet" right?
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This reply is on Facebook under the Scooter/Nissan Pathfinder wreck https://www.facebook.com/FOX5LasVegas: (https://www.facebook.com/FOX5LasVegas:) From Nick Arthur-Vittorio Poma: Ron when scooters are in the middle of the lane that is the scooters fault. Scooters have the same laws as bikes. Stay to the right not right in the middle of a lane. I hit one and it was hilarious. The cops showed up and asked me if I wanted to press charges because the scooter was completely at fault.
Laws vary, and Cops vary. People also LIE on the net cause they can.
Don't worry...I used B&L's gun to shoot the guy that wrote that. He lived next door.
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Sure, right after the formation of the USA Bovine Air Force.
Stig
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You do know that swine flew right?