KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Super 8 150 => Topic started by: DMblues01 on September 22, 2014, 03:10:31 PM
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After having my nail issue with my tire this past week, I've decided to get new tires so I don't have to ride on the plugged one for too long.
I don't want to buy a factory Cheng Shin, because it's only available as an OEM part for WAY more than it's worth. $90 was the cheapest I found it (at kymcopartsmonster).
I'd like to run a set of Michelin City Grips or Pirelli Diablos, and I can get a set of both tires for about $130 from Denniskirk.com.
But, the nearest rear size to the factory 120/80-14 is a 140/70-14. I've seen someone post on here that a 140 rear WILL fit on a Super8, but I was wondering if anyone has run one, and will it clear without having to modify anything.
I just don't want to go to the trouble of getting a tire mounted on the rim, and then finding out after the fact that it rubs somewhere.
I appreciate any input anyone can give!
Duke- 8)
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Can'tr help w/ the fit but give Bike Bandit a try. They have free shipping over 99.00, and price match on tires.
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I'm running a Pirelli 120/70 14 on the rear of my Super 8 without a problem. Tyre model ST66.
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You could also look at tirerack.com and revzilla.com for comparisons. I know somebody posted somewhere on tire sizes, what the numbers mean and how that two different tire numbers could actually be the same or similar overall circumference. If I ever do I'll post it up here. Beings these tires seem hard to get, I really need to brush up on tire specs and how to compare.
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Tire size calculator.
Fill in the blanks.....
See what comes close (and is available!) to your present rear tire....
Honda Forza folks are using it to find a N.American tire for the rear of the Forza (A strange size NOT acurrently avail in N. America and back-ordered at some Honda dealers!)
http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTireMath.do (http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTireMath.do)
Stig
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Even two different manufactures of the exact same size rating will have different rolling rates over one mile. (the standard measure) This became common knowledge in the 80's with front wheel drive cars.
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Even two different manufactures of the exact same size rating will have different rolling rates over one mile. (the standard measure) This became common knowledge in the 80's with front wheel drive cars.
Sure, but all we can do is try .....
Stig
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That is the bottom line.
On my ZX I had to use a cut off wheel to take a "nub" off the engine case It was just a small casting nub but the tire rubbed there. Also the only way I can install my tire/rim is w/ no air in the tire. That is to make the clearance. Once the tire/rim are installed I inflate.
Just saying if yo have issues installing a larger tire there are solutions.
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Tire size calculator.
Fill in the blanks.....
See what comes close (and is available!) to your present rear tire....
Honda Forza folks are using it to find a N.American tire for the rear of the Forza (A strange size NOT acurrently avail in N. America and back-ordered at some Honda dealers!)
http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTireMath.do (http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTireMath.do)
Stig
Thanks for that link Stig!
I put in the numbers, and the 140/70 is less than 1/2 inch larger in overall rolling circumference. A 140/60 was almost 2 inches smaller. It says the 140/70 will be about 2-3 less revolutions per mile, so I can live with that. I doubt that should be too noticeable as far as acceleration is concerned.
And the width of the 140 is only about .39 inch wider on each side, and there's well more than 1/2 inch of clearance from the shocks and hugger.
Duke- 8)
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Possibly decent front tires (P-rated)...
http://www.amazon.com/100-80-14-Tubeless-Motorcycle-Scooter/dp/B00KH3PROE (http://www.amazon.com/100-80-14-Tubeless-Motorcycle-Scooter/dp/B00KH3PROE)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tire-100-80-14-Tubeless-Front-Rear-Motorcycle-Scooter-Moped-Universal-14-rim-/351200964960?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51c5357160&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tire-100-80-14-Tubeless-Front-Rear-Motorcycle-Scooter-Moped-Universal-14-rim-/351200964960?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51c5357160&vxp=mtr)
Possibly excellent rear tires (S-rated)...
http://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/motorcycle-tires/pirelli-diablo-scooter-tire (http://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/motorcycle-tires/pirelli-diablo-scooter-tire)
http://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/motorcycle-tires/metzeler-feelfree-oem-replacement-scooter-tire (http://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/motorcycle-tires/metzeler-feelfree-oem-replacement-scooter-tire)
http://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/motorcycle-tires/dunlop-sx01-scooter-tire (http://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/motorcycle-tires/dunlop-sx01-scooter-tire)
http://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/motorcycle-tires/bridgestone-hoop-scooter-moped-tire (http://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/motorcycle-tires/bridgestone-hoop-scooter-moped-tire)
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Bike Bandit is my go to for every tire I need (bikes).
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I am getting ready to buy another rear tire too. I am on my second OEM Cheng Shin rear tire. The first lasted 8500 miles and the one on the scooter now has around 10,000 miles on it. I considered getting a better brand tire in 140 width but although people have reported that it fits, no one would answer my question on how it affected the handling. The issue here is trying to fit a tire on a rim not designed for that wide of a tire. I have found that going up one size in width is no problem. 2 sizes? I don't know. My dealer recommended against it.
Have you put a new rear tire on your scooter and if so, what did you get and how did it work out?
BTW, I am running a Michelin City Grip on the front and stock tire on the rear. The combination seems to work pretty well. I just take it easy in the rain.
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You're over thinking this one.The tire size (width/height) has very little to do w/ rims width, within reason. It has more to do w/ clearance on the machine.
I am running four sizes larger on both front, and rear on one bike, and 2 sizes larger on the rear of another with one size smaller on the front.
It all comes down to geometry, and how the frame is designed. My bike w/ the two larger tires rides 1000% better than OEM, and my mixed size bike rides no hands all day long (home made "O" ring cruise control). Fast corners are no good for this bike but I just take them slower.
What it comes down to is balance (geometry). Taller tires effect the balance. Wider tires do not.
If your bike tracks too hard in corners go taller in the front or shorter in the rear If it under steers go shorter in the front or taller in the rear.
No one but you can determine what size is best for your bike. I have a pile of tires that did not work out as I had hoped. Luckily I can sell them to other people as they are needed so I lost nothing by experimenting.
What I can say for sure is wider is always better. You get a larger contact area, therefore better grip.
On a PS note... The OEM Chen Shin tires are junk. Anything you get in a name brand will be night, and day better.
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You're over thinking this one.The tire size (width/height) has very little to do w/ rims width, within reason. It has more to do w/ clearance on the machine.
I am running four sizes larger on both front, and rear on one bike, and 2 sizes larger on the rear of another with one size smaller on the front.
It all comes down to geometry, and how the frame is designed. My bike w/ the two larger tires rides 1000% better than OEM, and my mixed size bike rides no hands all day long (home made "O" ring cruise control). Fast corners are no good for this bike but I just take them slower.
What it comes down to is balance (geometry). Taller tires effect the balance. Wider tires do not.
If your bike tracks too hard in corners go taller in the front or shorter in the rear If it under steers go shorter in the front or taller in the rear.
No one but you can determine what size is best for your bike. I have a pile of tires that did not work out as I had hoped. Luckily I can sell them to other people as they are needed so I lost nothing by experimenting.
What I can say for sure is wider is always better. You get a larger contact area, therefore better grip.
On a PS note... The OEM Chen Shin tires are junk. Anything you get in a name brand will be night, and day better.
I am not over thinking this. It is a well Known fact that to big of a tire will mess up the handling of ANY bike. the question is, how big is too big. When you put a tire on a rim that is too narrow, the tire will end up in a shape not intended by the designer and you will get funky handling. You admitted that your bike doesn't handle fast corners well. My Super 8 with stock size tires handles like it's on rails at any speed. It's only real limit is that it runs out of cornering clearance before it runs out of grip.
I would love to replace the rear Chen Chin with a better tire but have yet to find one that is close to the right size. You just confirmed for me that the larger tires don't handle well: "Fast corners are no good for this bike but I just take them slower." My only real complaint with the Chen Shin is that it doesn't work that well when it's wet. The front Chen Shin worked pretty well too but I replaced it with a City Grip. The city grip made the steering a bit heavier but now that I have gotten used to it I don't even notice it.
BTW, it's a well know fact that wide tires tend to make bikes stand up in curves and also make them more likely to stand up while braking in curves. Wider tires also tend to make the steering heavier and slower. Go read some magazine tests on bikes with really wide tires and you will see what I am talking about.
As for going with a tire like a 140/60 or 140/70 on the rear of the sport city, I am still waiting for someone to tell me how that handles. What exactly are you running on your Super 8?
As for the Stock tires being junk, they last a loooong time and have great feel. It is a well known fact that they suck in the rain. I got 16K out of the OEM front tire and am at 10K on my second rear tire.
Also, I have ridden my Super 8 in a wide variety of conditions, not just around town. Overall the stock tires worked pretty well.
A few of the conditions I have ridden in with stock tires:
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2014%20pics/IMG_1132_zpsfc2d6531.jpg)
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(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2014%20pics/P6040010_zpsde7450e4.jpg)
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(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2011%20PICS/killboy3-19-11-Copy2.jpg)
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You mis-read... The bike w/ four sixes larger tires is the bike that handles 1000% better They are both taller, and wider.
Who ever knows this "well know fact" that wider tires handle worse is mistaken.
You are correct that mis shaping a tire is not a good idea but the reality is the physical dimensions of the bike, and what will actually will fit in the frame prevent this issue.
I have owned somewhere around 200 or so bikes. Every type you can think of. Wider (what will physically fit), has Always been better IMHO. Your mind is made up so I'll forget the rest.
Get new Chens, and be done w/ it!
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You mis-read... The bike w/ four sixes larger tires is the bike that handles 1000% better They are both taller, and wider.
Who ever knows this "well know fact" that wider tires handle worse is mistaken.
You are correct that mis shaping a tire is not a good idea but the reality is the physical dimensions of the bike, and what will actually will fit in the frame prevent this issue.
I have owned somewhere around 200 or so bikes. Every type you can think of. Wider (what will physically fit), has Always been better IMHO. Your mind is made up so I'll forget the rest.
Get new Chens, and be done w/ it!
You also mis read what I wrote. I didn't say that wider tires handle worse, but tires that are too big do. You never answered the question of what you have on your super 8. I don't know that a 140/70 rear will handle poorly on a super 8 but so far I have yet to see anyone post that they handle fine either. I asked that question a while back but no one answered my question so I went with another Chen Shin. The tech at my local dealer has seen problems with oversize tires and recommended against putting a 140 on the Super 8. I have had friends put one size larger tires on their bikes and than decide to go back to the stock size. It's not that the larger tires didn't work, just that the stock size felt better to them. So I know that bigger is not always better. How about those cruisers with monster rear tires? Most reviews say they handle like crap but I have not personally ridden one
I have put oversize tires on some of my bikes with no problems however I never went up by more than one size. If someone offered a 130/80-14 I wouldn't hesitate to put it on my super 8, especially something like a City Grip. So, my mind is not up but in absence of any good information about a better tire, I will stick with what I know works fairly well.
My Aprilia Sport City also has an unusual sized rear tire and I ended up going up one size. In that case I prefer the larger tire.
I'm curious, what bike do you have with four times bigger tire that handles 1000% better.
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Ok, we are on the same page... Usually when you up size (equally front/rear) the bike is naturally taller, and this does throw some riders off their game. Reality is you have to re-learn the bike, just as when it was new. Taller is Not always better tho. Some bikes squat better.
Those giant ass tires on choppers are just for looks, and are actually quite dangerous because of all the un-sprung weight. Blowouts happen, and people get hurt because of them.
Anyway... I don't own an S-8 but there is a thread on here where the owner went up one on the rear, and touted it as a night, and day improvement. I believe it was in the last 6 months, so I'm either mistaken or you did not find/see it.
Maybe someone will chime in here...
The ZX -50 is the bike I went up on the sizes so dramaticly. I actually have two rear desiginated tires on the bike.
The reason is I built the bike to run 1 mile speed runs, and modified the frame accordingly. It is 3.75" longer, and 1/75" shorter in the front, and rear. I went w/ a rear des. tire on the front to change the steering angle,(geometry), and give better straight line tracking.
I have ridden it as is on the street, and it handles like a dream, when before (oem) it fought hard to under steer.
If you do go larger on the rear you most likely will want to go larger on the front as well to keep the factory geometry (if that's what you like)
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Ok, we are on the same page... Usually when you up size (equally front/rear) the bike is naturally taller, and this does throw some riders off their game. Reality is you have to re-learn the bike, just as when it was new. Taller is Not always better tho. Some bikes squat better.
Those giant ass tires on choppers are just for looks, and are actually quite dangerous because of all the un-sprung weight. Blowouts happen, and people get hurt because of them.
Anyway... I don't own an S-8 but there is a thread on here where the owner went up one on the rear, and touted it as a night, and day improvement. I believe it was in the last 6 months, so I'm either mistaken or you did not find/see it.
Maybe someone will chime in here...
The ZX -50 is the bike I went up on the sizes so dramaticly. I actually have two rear desiginated tires on the bike.
The reason is I built the bike to run 1 mile speed runs, and modified the frame accordingly. It is 3.75" longer, and 1/75" shorter in the front, and rear. I went w/ a rear des. tire on the front to change the steering angle,(geometry), and give better straight line tracking.
I have ridden it as is on the street, and it handles like a dream, when before (oem) it fought hard to under steer.
If you do go larger on the rear you most likely will want to go larger on the front as well to keep the factory geometry (if that's what you like)
I saw a post some time back from someone overseas found a 130 tire (one size up) for the Super 8 and really liked it. That tire is not available here and was a brand I never heard of. The only tires I can find here are two sizes larger, either 140/60-14 or 140/70-14. Stock is 120/80-14. A 140/60-14 would be wider but not as tall. I'd go with the 140/170 because I prefer a taller tire. I put a one size bigger rear tire on my Sport City with a stock front and liked the extra ground clearance and slightly quicker steering.
However, I have not seen a review from anyone who used a 140-14 except for comments on how it fit. No comments on handling. I am very picky about how my bikes handle in curves. I don't want weird feel and handling which can happen with wider tires Obviously the profile and other characteristics of the tire make a difference too. It is quite possible that on brand of oversize tire would work well while another might not. I have tried a lot of tire combinations on a lot of bikes and so far nothing has worked really badly but some do work better than others.
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Quote:
"It is quite possible that on brand of oversize tire would work well while another might not."
I agree 100% here. As I mentioned somewhere before that even the 1 mile rolling rate will vary between manufacturers on the same size tire.
Bottom line for me is, I'll try anything... If it doesn't work out then I go on to the next thing, and hope my experience will help out somewhere.
In this case I have really given all the help I can. You really need a fella that has tried what you want.
Have you tried any of the other scoot forums? I think there is an S-8 forum that Kreps was visiting...
Or perhaps give a shout to Kymco USA, and see if they have any leads for you. This question must have crossed their desk at some point
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Anyone here have knowledge and or experience with an MMG brand tire?
Upon a quick Amazon search for the 120/80-14 tire, I came across this ... advertised as a front/rear tire
Specs:
DOT Approved Tubeless Tire Rim Size 14"
Load Range B | 4 P.R. | Load Rating 58
Speed Rating P | Max Load 519 Lbs
Special rubber compound offers excellent grip and wear
Distinctive tread pattern offers precise stability and handling
http://www.amazon.com/80-14-Tubeless-Front-Motorcycle-Scooter/dp/B00KH5B9FS/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1421771997&sr=8-10&keywords=120%2F80-14+scooter+tire (http://www.amazon.com/80-14-Tubeless-Front-Motorcycle-Scooter/dp/B00KH5B9FS/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1421771997&sr=8-10&keywords=120%2F80-14+scooter+tire)
There are quite a bit of other brands listed in that size, but labeled as a "front" tire, including the Shinko ....
Shinko SR567 Scooter Motorcycle Tire - 120/80-14 58S / Front. Is this what is used as an OEM tire? If that's the case, I see no reason why we should not use any of the other brands.
<EDIT again> after reviewing the tire calculator, and further thoughts, I might be in favor of going with a 140/70-14 tire. I could use the additional top speed .... probably barely noticeable. It will probably more (if anything) noticeable of initiating a turn / lean, having a slightly wider tire.
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Go for it. It's just a scooter.
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I'm getting more motivated to getting better grip.
I don't ride (commute) in the rain ..... I promised the wife, and why increase the risk. However, I do / have ridden in the fog. Some days, more dense than others. A couple of times, I had the tires lose grip. Today was the second time, just rounding a simple right hander, had the front tuck for a moment. Thankfully, I have enough experience that allowed me to keep the scoot upright. Regardless, a bit of an unsettling moment and can drop ones confidence way down.
For those the have XXXXX miles on your OEM tires, I don't know how you've managed to keep your scoot upright. Or have you? ..... eeeeeesh!
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2-3 weeks ago I was day dreaming, (drinking my 40oz, and playing Nintendo actually), and when I looked up there was a nun standing in the cross walk.
I cut the bars, and the bike kept going straight. I put my feet down to stabilize, and she vanished.
Flying Nun!
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the 140/70 14 tire should have a 3 1/2 " to 4 1/2 " wide rim , have you checked the rim width size,.
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tire size 120/80 14 load 520 lb. speed 112 miles, width 4.56 ", dia. 22.13 " cercumference 64.57 rim size 2.1/2 to 3",.
140/70 14 584 112 5.47 22.28 65.63 3.50 to 4.50
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It is a normal scene here in the Philippines to see S8's running on FDR 140/70 rear.
But I prefer 110/70 Front, 130/70 Rear... it's Mizzle btw. Awesome grip. :)
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Hey Jamross,
Do us a favor, and find Vivo! H'es acting a fool, and not talking to us!!!
I'll post ya a big smiley face if you find him...
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I just put another OEM rear tire on my S-8. The last tire went well over 10,000 miles. I have a City Grip on the front. I ride in rain & wet roads fairly often, sometimes in snow & ice. I don't find the OEM tires to be that bad. If I could find another brand rear tire that was the correct or one size up I'd try it but this new tire will take my scooter to nearly 30,000 miles so it will be a while until I need another tire.
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klav,
Did you get it at a dealer? Being nosey too, but will you share what the stock tire cost along with any additional mounting/balancing costs?
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I just put another OEM rear tire on my S-8. The last tire went well over 10,000 miles. I have a City Grip on the front. I ride in rain & wet roads fairly often, sometimes in snow & ice. I don't find the OEM tires to be that bad. If I could find another brand rear tire that was the correct or one size up I'd try it but this new tire will take my scooter to nearly 30,000 miles so it will be a while until I need another tire.
(I had to put on a 150/70-13 to replace a scarce 140/70-13 on my Forza - no issues and the radar says my speedo is DEAD accurate with the new tire. Go figure.)
But what I'm really writing about is to ask Klaviator to post some more of his great scooterin' pictures!
Thanks in advance...Stig
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klav,
Did you get it at a dealer? Being nosey too, but will you share what the stock tire cost along with any additional mounting/balancing costs?
I did get it at the dealer. It is NOT a cheap tire. I think it was around $110 and that was after a discount. The last one I bought was $90. I guess that's inflation. Mount & Balance was $45. I wish I could get a City Grip for it but don't want to go up to a 140/70-14 tire. I know some people have put a 140 tire on their S-8 but no one has been willing to post how it affects the handling. My dealer recommended not putting that wide of a tire in the S-8 rear wheel, however I understand that it does fit but you have to remove the inner fender.
I expect to replace my S-8 after I get 25K or so on it so I doubt I will need another tire for it.
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(I had to put on a 150/70-13 to replace a scarce 140/70-13 on my Forza - no issues and the radar says my speedo is DEAD accurate with the new tire. Go figure.)
But what I'm really writing about is to ask Klaviator to post some more of his great scooterin' pictures!
Thanks in advance...Stig
From my experience, going up one size like you did on the Forza is never a problem. I wouldn't think twice about putting a 130 on the S-8 if I could find one.
Some recent scooter pics, well from February:
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2015%20pics/P2250024_zpsratiehka.jpg)
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2015%20pics/P2260006_zpslqalixtm.jpg)
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2015%20pics/P2260001_zpsljv6fkl4.jpg)
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Just installed a 140/60/14 rear to replace the crappy oem tire and what a difference. I definitelty lost some agility but the additional grip and confidence at speed was worth it for sure. I kept the OEM size up front for now and the new shoes are Michelin city-grips. Awesome tire in the dry asphalt & concrete if I must say. I'll let you know how it does in the rain soon. ScooterzNC gave me an awesome deal and great service!!
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Just installed a 140/60/14 rear to replace the crappy oem tire and what a difference. I definitelty lost some agility but the additional grip and confidence at speed was worth it for sure. I kept the OEM size up front for now and the new shoes are Michelin city-grips. Awesome tire in the dry asphalt & concrete if I must say. I'll let you know how it does in the rain soon. ScooterzNC gave me an awesome deal and great service!!
Just curious.....did the 140 tire fit with the rear fender still on? Someone else mentioned that it would have to be removed.
Duke- 8)
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I'm from the Philippines and I use Mizzle M89 130/14. It's a good all-around tire.