KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: Silent Matters on September 15, 2014, 12:14:16 PM
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Greetings all,
I have been in the market for a scooter and was set on purchasing a Honda Forza. Most over at the Forza forum would mention the cramped style of the Forza leg space and recommend the Kymco Downtown 300i as being a better bargain for the taller guys (I am 5-11 1/2). My plans were to take the bike out on long trips through countrysides and was not sure if it would be comfortable. I had never heard of KYMCO before so was reluctant to place my trust in it, but after doing some study of the company, the Downtown became my preference. Still, I am patient (Like hell I am, but can wait) and will continue to study before making the purchase. Would like a few questions for you guys:
Is the Downtown 300i ideal for trips longer than 1000 miles in 5 days? (I am in Texas so any trip is BIG)
I will mainly use the DT for commuting, but will get lost often on purpose (and if lucky, accidentally) once in a while.
Will the 2015 model will hit the US?
Does the Downtown actually have better leg room than the Forza?
Anyway, have been lurking in the shadows in the Kymco forums and wanted to stick my head out and say hi.
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Every person is different and so is every scoot. What fits me may not fit another, and it's all about the fit.
You need to go sit on one, for like an hour at least. Lol . All kidding aside you really need to get the fit right. As far as long distance I've done 300-400 mile days without a problem. The body will fail before to DT300.
I chose the Kymco over the Forza for a few reasons.
First was the weight. The DT is 367lbs and the Forza 422. I have compromised legs and every lb makes a difference. Next was horsepower. The DT300 at 30 and the Forza at 24.5. Doesn't sound like much but it does make for a faster scooter.
I also liked the less bulbous look of the Kymco.
Finaly my personal preference is to buy from a dealer that sells scooters first. I've had problems with big cycle dealers that stock a few scoots because the mfg makes them stock them.
Here's a review(not mine)
http://bamarides.com/ride/scooters/kymco-dt300-test-ride (http://bamarides.com/ride/scooters/kymco-dt300-test-ride)
If I were looking for a DT300 I'd look for leftovers. Heavy discounts can be found on 2013-1014 models.
All that said you can't go wrong with either the DT or the Forza. Both are more than capable of what you require.
Good luck !
Be Big,
AMAC
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Get a seat on a Forza.
Femur length is the key factor with the Forza, not your height.
The Forza seat back can be modified by removing some foam and reattaching the cover to provide extra legroom if required.
If you do big mileages Honda's 8000 mile service interval is very welcome and significantly better than any other brand.
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Get a seat on a Forza.
Femur length is the key factor with the Forza, not your height.
The Forza seat back can be modified by removing some foam and reattaching the cover to provide extra legroom if required.
If you do big mileages Honda's 8000 mile service interval is very welcome and significantly better than any other brand.
Any seat on any scoot can be modded. As far as service intervals I assume you're talking valve clearance. I can do a valve adjust on the DT in 10 mins. Just remove the "met in". On the honda I need to pull some plastic. The interval on the DT is 6k as opposed to 8 on the Honda.
and again in the end when you walk into the place you bought the honda from you end up being the "red headed step child". Starting to get the idea I don't care for honda dealers and scooters? Lol.
Be Big,
AMAC
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Thanks Amac, that really helped and I also was looking at the greater HP in the DT300i, but did not consider the weight which means you even have more to work with. I liked the windshield as well. I know the Forza's windshield can be replaced, but the DT300i's is standard so saves a little moola. I am looking at a scooter dealer in Austin who has discounts on earlier models. but want to compare the improvements on the 2015 DT300i model but from the dealer website, there was not a single thing different. I got the impression from the forums that the 2015 model would not be sold in the US and that the Xciting model was not available here either but both are sold at the dealership in Austin.
Enjoyed your review!
gn2, I read and studied how to remove some foam from the seat, but never got the impression it was easy and looked for seat replacements, but they were hard to find and overseas. I do trust the Honda's quality and the dealerships are plentiful, but prefer not to have to make to many adjustments and replacements but to enjoy the ride out of the lot. Will still visit the Honda dealer and sit on the Forza and give it a try either way.
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Yes you need to sit on and get a feel of both scooters.
It's hard to argue Hondas quality, it's there. So is the fit and finish. That said I'll hold the Kymco to the same standard.
The dealer network on the other hand may or may not be of help. Back when I had the silverwing I need repairs on the road and two different dealerships failed to find/fix a fairly basic problem.
Not because they were in competent I'm sure they were good mechanics but because they don't see many scooters.
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Valve clearance check interval on the Forza is 16,000 miles.
Unfortunately for the home mechanic its shims, so the Downtown may have an advantage for some people in this regard.
Honda dealer where I live is absolutely first rate.
If Kymco UK had got their act together and stocked a Downtown with ABS and an MPH biased speedo last year I probably would have bought one.
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I finally have to respond to this. I have been in Texas and no matter where I was it took at least 3 hours to get out! Wish I had seen Bob Phillips' "Texas Country Reporter" on RFD-TV before I left. Anyway, I think the DT300i is the greatest since I have one. I doubt you would be disappointed if you got one except for the fit that has been discussed. You may want to consider another point depending on whether or not you do the maintenance on your scooter regardless. Kymco dealers are , for the most part, really incompetent in the technical department so if you rely on the dealer for any tech or maintenance or warranty service you may want to seriously consider the Honda. You can find on this forum many cases of dealer incompetence. You should be OK if you do your own maintenance. Don't know about any warranty issues since I have not had any with any of our Kymcos since 2009 when we restarted riding.
Karl
PS: OOPS! Forgot to mention the dealer that sold me the excellent Yager 200i forgetting to install the battery clamp when he put the bike together. Had to get KymcoUSA jacked up to get him to send the part. I even provided part numbers and he screwed up the screws: sent sheet metal instead of metric machine screws. This is what got me started on crummy dealers. I am happy to hear there are some good ones out there but I will bet they are in a minority.
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I finally have to respond to this. I have been in Texas and no matter where I was it took at least 3 hours to get out! Wish I had seen Bob Phillips' "Texas Country Reporter" on RFD-TV before I left. Anyway, I think the DT300i is the greatest since I have one. I doubt you would be disappointed if you got one except for the fit that has been discussed. You may want to consider another point depending on whether or not you do the maintenance on your scooter regardless. Kymco dealers are , for the most part, really incompetent in the technical department so if you rely on the dealer for any tech or maintenance or warranty service you may want to seriously consider the Honda. You can find on this forum many cases of dealer incompetence. You should be OK if you do your own maintenance. Don't know about any warranty issues since I have not had any with any of our Kymcos since 2009 when we restarted riding.
Karl
I've always done well with service from Kymco dealers. Maybe I'm just lucky.
Can't say the same for Honda dealers/scooter service. I'll get an argument but I've had both honda Cycles and Scooters and the scooters never, ever get the same level of service. Most service depts see few scooters and a great many of the techs don't want the hassles of working on them. They have told me just that.
That Forza is a great scooter, but IMO the dealer support concept is not valid with scooters.
Here comes gn2.......
Be Big,
AMAC
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I am 6 foot and 212 lb.s shrunk a couple of inches over the last 30 years, but my legs are the same length, I installed 4 inches of foam, slanted back for comfort,and moved the butt stop back 5 inches,
now I can ride 4 or 5 hours with no trouble,just stop for gas every 200 miles, oo the seat is wider too,using 10 lb. foam called,. rebond foam, when I was 80 years old my longest ride was 550 miles ,. don goulet Ottawa On. Canada we must be in northern texas when I drive west its 1,300 miles to the border
then its another 2,000 miles to my sister place. west coast
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The Forza must be super cramped because the dt300 is Kymcos most cramped scooter. I'm 6'1" and my legs practically hit my chest using the cruise footrests. It is not a spacious scooter and the bolstered seat forces you to sit forward.
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That Forza is a great scooter, but IMO the dealer support concept is not valid with scooters.
Here comes gn2.......
Wouldn't want to disappoint...
Dealer quality is independent of brand franchise irrespective of which country you are in.
There are good Honda dealers, there are bad ones.
There are good Kymco dealers there are bad ones.
For anyone doing home servicing, the Kymco Downtown is superior to the Honda Forza by virtue of the screw and locknut valve clearance adjusters.
People doing big mileages and paying for dealer servicing, the Honda Forza is the daddy.
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Wouldn't want to disappoint...
Dealer quality is independent of brand franchise irrespective of which country you are in.
There are good Honda dealers, there are bad ones.
There are good Kymco dealers there are bad ones.
For anyone doing home servicing, the Kymco Downtown is superior to the Honda Forza by virtue of the screw and locknut valve clearance adjusters.
People doing big mileages and paying for dealer servicing, the Honda Forza is the daddy.
Thanks knew you were there......
To bang the hoda drum, on the kymco forum.
Not getting enough love over on the honda forums. Again I'll defend the shield, lol.
Hondas are great scooters and the Forza is no exception. If you like fat and slow it's the ticket.
Be Big,
AMAC
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Wouldn't want to disappoint...
Dealer quality is independent of brand franchise irrespective of which country you are in.
There are good Honda dealers, there are bad ones.
There are good Kymco dealers there are bad ones.
For anyone doing home servicing, the Kymco Downtown is superior to the Honda Forza by virtue of the screw and locknut valve clearance adjusters.
People doing big mileages and paying for dealer servicing, the Honda Forza is the daddy.
Funny...my Kymco Dealer is a Honda Dealer and Honda and Kymco are the ONLY scooters they will sell .
I have had NO problems with their service or honoring warranty work ,etc.
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Thanks knew you were there......
To bang the hoda drum, on the kymco forum.
Not getting enough love over on the honda forums. Again I'll defend the shield, lol.
Hondas are great scooters and the Forza is no exception. If you like fat and slow it's the ticket.
Be Big,
AMAC
Bang the Honda drum eh?
You missed the bit about the Downtown being superior?
None so blind as those who will not see.
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Bang the Honda drum eh?
You missed the bit about the Downtown being superior?
None so blind as those who will not see.
Your closing comment:
"People doing big mileages and paying for dealer servicing, the Honda Forza is the daddy."
People who don't remember what they just typed are disingenuous.
I put on more miles than 99.9 percent of riders and kymco service is simply better and more cost effective.
Be Big,
AMAC
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If your Downtown suits you that's great, but in terms of service interval it is decidedly inferior.
This isn't opinion, its a numerical value.
Both scooters have their plus and minus points.
Service interval is where the Honda wins, valve clearance adjusters for ease of home servicing is where the Kymco wins.
I've done 12,000 miles on my Forza, two services, three hours labour, scooter off the road two days.
If it had been a Downtown at five services including a drivebelt change, the bill would easily have been double and off the road five days.
The respective merits of dealerships in your local area is really not an issue for the vast majority of us.
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how does the Piaggio x10 stack up to the honda forza or the downtown, it sure looks like a beauty!
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Piaggio is bigger, faster and more luxurious than any other 300 scooter.
There has been a fair bit of controversy over the brake master cylinders which need replaced at ridiculously short intervals.
Fuse box is exposed to crud and water being thrown up from the rear wheel and this has been known to cause electrical failure/breakdowns.
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Well sorry to say this dude ,but this is to compare a very beautiful lady that has an incurable disease
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After 17 months and 16000 miles later I am very happy with my DT 300 EXCEPT in the comfort area. And then last week my friend let me borrow his Honda Silverwing for a long ride. Thats all it took. That thing was THE MOST comfortable ride for a scooter I have ever been on. Never felt cramped, never needed to stand and adjust the "man package" and was able to ride all day. I love the DT and if I could find somehow, someway to get more legroom I would. But since I cant, I will be getting a Silverwing and giving my DT300 to a family member for school. The sad thing is the Exciting 500 and the MyRoad 700 provide no more legroom than the 300. You'd think someone at Kymco would know by now that the biggest drawback to the 300 is the seat. But I guess they dont really care about what people want.
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After 17 months and 16000 miles later I am very happy with my DT 300 EXCEPT in the comfort area. And then last week my friend let me borrow his Honda Silverwing for a long ride. Thats all it took. That thing was THE MOST comfortable ride for a scooter I have ever been on. Never felt cramped, never needed to stand and adjust the "man package" and was able to ride all day. I love the DT and if I could find somehow, someway to get more legroom I would. But since I cant, I will be getting a Silverwing and giving my DT300 to a family member for school. The sad thing is the Exciting 500 and the MyRoad 700 provide no more legroom than the 300. You'd think someone at Kymco would know by now that the biggest drawback to the 300 is the seat. But I guess they dont really care about what people want.
This is completely false. I'm 6'1" and my knees are in my stomach and hitting the handle bars when I ride the dt300. X500 i can stick my legs straight out on the cruiser spot, same with the myroad. The dt300 is the only kymco maxi other than the grand Vista i cannot ride due to let room
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For anyone doing home servicing, the Kymco Downtown is superior to the Honda Forza by virtue of the screw and locknut valve clearance adjusters.
Talking with the service manager and a tech at a Powerhouse Honda dealer - they both mentioned the superiority of the bucket & shim system on the new Hondas (like the NSS-300 Forza) compared to the nut & screw systems. Finding the shims is not an issue...I purchased a case of the same shims Honda uses for $35 (about 20 mins of shop time)
Stig
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Honda says Honda is best while Kymco says Kymco is best.
As a mechanic that does not have a vested interest... Nut/screw is far better. You can get Exact adjustments. Shims are approximate adjustments.
I set my valves at Zero lash/hot. You can not always do that w/ shims.
Honda makes a better quality bike but the valve system is not one of the better components IMHO.
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Finding the shims is not an issue...I purchased a case of the same shims Honda uses for $35 (about 20 mins of shop time)
Stig
A set like that is not available at that price in the UK, or if they are I've never found them.
Given that sets are not available at a sensible price you have to order in the sizes you need.
Which makes a simple job into a complete nightmare.
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I wonder if there are any scoot engines out there worth hydraulic lifters, cars use these for the most part and you never have to adjust. Eventually, after 100s of thousands of miles you need to replace the lifter. Also reduced friction, hence more power.
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AFAIK there aren't any scooters with them, but Enfield uses them and the 80s CB750 engine had them.
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Honda needs to start using vTec on their scoot engines.
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vtec would be entirely pointless in a CVT equipped scooter.
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Naw, because how cool would it be if you could say "vtec just kicked in bro" to yourself when riding? Worth the extra $$$ ;)
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Cool?
Not at all.
You would just be a sad knob who talks to himself.
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Have you considered the new Kymco X-CT 300 or Kawasaki's J300, the Kymco 300 clone?
Even Yamaha's X-Max 250?
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Cool?
Not at all.
You would just be a sad knob who talks to himself.
LMFAO!
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Just like how I feel making engine sounds every time I ride an electric scooter/bike haha. Vtec bro....... Vtec
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You have to get a Go Pro. I wanna see that!
I make noises in the bathtub... :P
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I have a GoPro but i doubt anyone wants to see me in the bathtub lol
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not to hijack the thread, but aside v-tec do you think a supercharged Kymco could emerge someday? after j300 kawasaki could give/lend some tech from their h2 to kymco....
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They have one. The US won't see it IMHO...
http://bikeglam.com/kymco-g5sc-engine-details-and-pictures/ (http://bikeglam.com/kymco-g5sc-engine-details-and-pictures/)
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Thanks Zombie!
I wasn't aware of the Xciting 400i to have a supercharged engine... I like the bike very much ever since I first laid my eyes on it.... This was new info to me! I like the bike now even more....
Looking at the photos I can't see the supercharger turbine anywhere.... wonder why?
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Hard to say HOW they came up w/ the "Super Charged" designation. I see something about a 20:1 compression ratio but I'm not sure about that either.
I just googled SuperCharged Kymco.
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Hard to say HOW they came up w/ the "Super Charged" designation. I see something about a 20:1 compression ratio but I'm not sure about that either.
I just googled SuperCharged Kymco.
http://bikeglam.com/kymco-g5sc-engine-details-and-pictures/ (http://bikeglam.com/kymco-g5sc-engine-details-and-pictures/)
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The 400 Xciting motor is naturally aspirated, it is only "supercharged" in the minds of a few moronic marketing buffoons.
We are not fooled, the Xciting 400 has but a few hp more than a Downtown 300.
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Like "RT" designations in the 70"s?
IMHO any increase in HP is a step in the right direction. A 650HP "Rod" can stiil beat MPG on a 130HP factory ride.
I've built/rebuilt them all.
The more HP/Torque you have the better the efficiency is. The more torque you have the better the engine/the better the MPG.
Look at the new GT 500... 600 something HP/580 something torque. 27MPG avg.
On the flip side I took a 3. whatever hp Kymco, and changed it to a 13/15/20 ?? ?? ?? hp kymco.
Mileage went fro 100MPG to 10MPG maybe! But if I baby it... and ride the OEM 35-40MPH? About the same MPG of 100.
Just sayin'