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Scooters - 50cc => Super 9 => Topic started by: Mroz on August 05, 2014, 01:17:12 AM
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Hey guys...
So this " master piece "what i just got is really killing me big time !
Scooter have really hard hard hard time starting !
It starts better with starting fluid but just little still lot of kicking
Starter cranking and it sound like its starting but it just wont catch the blast ...
Its a 70 cc with arreche carb stock pipe stock cdi stock air filter !
When start it runs and idle really good its just the starting thing :/
After few minutes riding it usually starts right away
Battery good
Spark plug good
Starter good
Having spark all the time
Fresh gas
New fuel filter+ hoses
New air filter
Getting fuel when cranking
Carb cleaned up like 3x already
Choke was on battery it did move ( but the whole choke bracket in carb is very lose ???)
Well what would u checked next ??
Valve? Rings ? Head gasket? Can this be problem?
Every opinion would be very appreciated !
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Forget couple things :
Sometimes like this morning scooter starts on first kick but always when cold i have white smoke from pipe and bad gas smell ... Well scooter smell like gas always when idle ?? Too rich? Or bad rings?
Any idea?
Thx
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It wouldn't hurt to check the compression.
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Ok, so i checked a lot of things ,
Head gasket was bad so i replace them ...
So new info :
Scooter have problems starting only when cold !
But it starts good with fluid !
Choke works
I have 19mm arreche carb
And stock air filter without any air intake ( rubber hose with a box )
I adjust air mixture screw few times already
Spark plug getting kind of black rich
So mu question is about air set up on 70 cc airsal with 19mm arreche do i need anything special ? Like foam filter or breather or just more or less air ?
I cant find anything online about the air setup
Thx
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If it doesn't like to start cold but is ok when warmed, then the possibility is:
1. the choke system isn't working, so clean the carb. That also agress with the better starting using ether.
scoot safely,
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Sounds like either bad choke or tuned too lean. Could be low compression too, you want minimum 125psi with a kit. Adjust the mixture richer and see if that helps, also you said the choke it's lose? Check and see if ii's missing the o-ring.
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Well i have no compression tester but piston have brown marks under ring so ill order new one ...
And yeah choke was lose so i glued the bracket on the carb today and redid the carb again :/
The thing is when i start cold it smokes ,took long time ( few sec) to get in higher ( good ) rpms with full throttle after that it runs goood
Ill see in the morning whats new
Thx
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What oil do you use? Also if the white smoke smells kinda sweet it's got a bad head gasket and is burning coolant
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Well i use regular cheap 2 stroke oil no premix
And i just change headgasket and its AC scooter
This morning scootr starts righ away and after 3 minutes it bogs down and no more starting
But i can hear its trying :/
Ohhh this is nightmare !
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Yeah you have to check compression dude. Also don't cheap out on two stroke oil, this kinda stuff happens.
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Compression checked 75 with el start
~ 90 with kick start so i assume piston ?
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Rings and cylinder, maybe piston too. You should do the wrist pin bearing what head/base gaskets while in there too
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When you put new top end on this time buy senthetic 2cycle oil it will help in long run
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Ok i am back with my super nine ac
So new piston + ring , gaskets ......
Still same thing , scooter have hard time start when cold
When does it start it runs a restart fine ...
What i found out is : if i pull out el. Choke from the carb ( 19mm arreche )
The scooter starts right away when cold , when i put the choke back it still running ,
Wheni turn the scooter off a put the choke back it wont start again ...
What that means ?
Too much air ? Air leak ?
Thx for any info
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Ok i am back with my super nine ac
So new piston + ring , gaskets ......
Still same thing , scooter have hard time start when cold
When does it start it runs a restart fine ...
What i found out is : if i pull out el. Choke from the carb ( 19mm arreche )
The scooter starts right away when cold , when i put the choke back it still running ,
Wheni turn the scooter off a put the choke back it wont start again ...
What that means ?
Too much air ? Air leak ?
Thx for any info
If anything to much fuel, if you take out the choke it leaves a HUGE hole for air, if it runs good like that your too rich. What pilot just and main jet and needle position do you have? Also stock airbox or pod filter?
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I have stock air box with stock filter , not sure what jet , will check it tomorrow
And yes a big open hole after removing choke so my bad :D too much fuel
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Take a look at the oil pump too. My bet is someone tied it wide open.
That would explain most everything.
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Ok main jet is 80 , needle looks pretty good too , oil pump was little open all the time , so i set it up correctly ...
Also the thick gasket between intake and carburetor have smaller inside opening than carb , can that be problem ?
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Mroz said way back the plug was black. Wrong heat range/too rich. One or both.
Karl
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Yes, iam using ngk br9 with airsal 70 cc kit
Is that the right plug ?
Also its a air cooled scooter
Thx
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Ok main jet is 80 , needle looks pretty good too , oil pump was little open all the time , so i set it up correctly ...
Also the thick gasket between intake and carburetor have smaller inside opening than carb , can that be problem ?
Dude drill that thing out!!!! That smaller carb spacer is a restriction!!!! You have to order the large size or drill it out with a step drill bit. No wonder your running so rich!!!! You'll have to go up in jet sizes too.
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Dude drill that thing out!!!! That smaller carb spacer is a restriction!!!! You have to order the large size or drill it out with a step drill bit. No wonder your running so rich!!!! You'll have to go up in jet sizes too.
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Oh sh&t , but intake inside opening is same as the gasket does that mean i need o drill the manifold too?
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Dude drill that thing out!!!! That smaller carb spacer is a restriction!!!! You have to order the large size or drill it out with a step drill bit. No wonder your running so rich!!!! You'll have to go up in jet sizes too.
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Oh sh&t , but intake inside opening is same as the gasket does that mean i need o drill the manifold too?
Hmmmm how much smaller is the hole compared to the carb? Post up a picture if you can.
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Racing planet has a 20mm intake for the S 9.
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Ok, one more question before i start drilling and jetting
I tried to start it up yesterday and after few tries nothing , i turn the key of and on and it start right away ...
The thing is that this scooter was running fine with this setup before , do u think it may be el.
Like coil or ignition?
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Anything is possible.
Last week I installed a new cylinder head, and radiator in a Toyota Celica. The car ran great for 2 days, then began stalling at idle. The MAP sensor went bad... Fixed that, and 2 days later the car started skipping at high rpm... The Ign coil went bad...
Point is parts fail when they want to, and this may confuse what you think is happening. The owners "buddy" insisted it was a fault in the new head. Just cause the last part you touched "appears" to be the fault, you have to remember everything works together, and parts fail when they want.
Check for spark when the bike won't start. also spray out the ignition cylinder (key set), w/ PB blaster. There may be dirty or worn contacts in there. I'd do all the switches actually. It's an older bike.
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Something that I encountered as an issue that was hell for me to pin point - check your plug wire! Mine had spark but would randomly die and was hard to start. I pulled the wire from both the coil and cap, both ends wore out, clipped the ends and screwed them back in. Voila. A whole new world! (imagine me on a flying carpet with "Super 9" on the side).
Not saying that's your case, but that issue eluded me and had me going crazy for too long.
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I found all the grooves for the carb. needle worn off. The needle was floating up/down/rich/lean for months.
I went as far as to swap cylinder kits... You never know.