KymcoForum.com
Scooters - Big Bore => Xciting 500 => Topic started by: XcitingSeoul on July 09, 2014, 06:23:13 AM
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I've got one on order from a seller on eBay...I've read reports from riders of other bikes that it improved throttle response and MPG, but I am curious to hear if any of you have tried them on your Xciting before I drop it in.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDAwWDQwMA==/$(KGrHqNHJBUE7)72HdrPBO9Ieei!J!~~60_12.JPG)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-PERFORMANCE-SPARK-PLUG-PART-Kymco-Downtown-125i-200i-300i-Xciting-R-500i-/151015926812?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2329402c1c&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-PERFORMANCE-SPARK-PLUG-PART-Kymco-Downtown-125i-200i-300i-Xciting-R-500i-/151015926812?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2329402c1c&vxp=mtr)
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are they for speeding high speed moters with high out put coils, just wondering,
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DD, I saw these too and would like to put one in my carbed x500. Keep us posted, I can not find out any real info from anyone who has used them. But 5% better MPG sure would be nice! :-*
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That thing is to "pretty" to put in an ol' scooter engine:)
My concern would be its heat range---too hot can do a lot of damage to 4 strokes and especially to 2 strokes. Too cold leads to very hard starting and possible plug fouling.
Sam:)
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I tried gapless plugs in several different engines all with the same result... Misfires.
To truly work they need a minimum of 40K volts but 60K is optimal. There is also an issue with Non resistor plugs in a computer controlled engine ie Fuel Injected. The radio noise can create all sorts of issues.
That all being said... For a few bucks it couldn't hurt to try them in your bike. Just toss them if they don't work right.
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Never tried then, but I'll go out on a limb and fast it's a gimmick. Stick with NGK R or iridium plugs.
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Wow...as I'm quickly learning from reviewing posts on here, every little tweak you can make opens up a new rabbit hole of considerations and complications! My experience is mostly with tweaking computers- drop in more RAM, computer goes faster. Done. I figured I'd drop in a more efficient spark plug, bike is snappier and more fuel efficient! Not that simple...
I've never really been mechanically inclined, but I'd like to learn more and figured this scooter with its single cylinder and relatively simple CVT would be a good place to start. As with anything, it's fun and exciting on the one hand, and mind-bending on the other!
I guess I'll give it a go. One guarantee is that I'll learn something!
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If you can figure out computers, you can surely work on scooters. The way I see it with EVERYTHING, it's not a matter of knowledge more so a mind set. If you know the process of fixing something (computers, dish washers, cars, motorcycles, boats etc) you can transfer that patience to any other manner of repair. Computers and motorcycles/scooters are very similar to work on in a lot of ways. I find myself never trusting those ebsy type products, "15% more power!!!!". Maybe just a bias in that respect I would love to have a dyno to test those plugs, but would put money on no power change whatsoever. Also what zombie said, not having any gap for the spark to form seems wrong.
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Ok, two more questions...
Zombie, how many volts does the X500 put out?
Porkie, how do you know the heat range of a given spark plug?
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They run 20K volts avg, and 35K peak.
The reason those plugs misfire in conventional engines is directly related to your question to Porkie. Heat range is determined by the length of the electrode's insulator. The insulator is there because when a plug fires, the fuel/air mix INSIDE the insulators chamber is what ignites, and starts the flame front. The smaller that chamber the hotter the plug rating.
Gap less plugs have no heat rating because there is no chamber to create the flame front. Back to the miss fire... The engines these plugs are designed for are designed for the plugs. They have that flame front "chamber" built into the cylinder head, and piston. The engine is designed differently period.
I have forced these plugs to work by running crazy hot Accell 60K coils but the performance was actually hindered because the lack of a conventional plugs chamber forced random flame front ignition points inside the combustion chamber that simulated Pre Detonation.
Computer controlled engines w/ Knock sensors suffer most. The computer will retard the Ign timing to prevent the knock.
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Seoul, I always look at what plug comes with the scooter/ motorcycle and know from experience that in most cases the MFG's know what they are doing.
When I raced semi-pro dirt/ desert/ ISDT type events, BAJA and hare & hound, European scramble events, a person had to learn quickly about heat ranges. Two stroke engines are really affected by heat range---not so much 4 strokes. Going to a 'colder' plug for BAJA type events where the throttle is held open at high vehicle/ engine speeds is much safer than a 'hotter' plug used stock for general use.
Plugs are so cheap and with unleaded fuel on 4 stroke engines a plug hardly never-ever has to be changed: Bikes maybe at 25-50,000 miles and passenger vehicles maybe at 100,000 miles. Two stroke plugs can be pulled and 'wire brushed' off and reused many. many times, or just pop another one in.
I have always like NJK plugs for my bikes. Normal heat ranges for the street are about a 7 or 8. The charts in auto parts stores will convert all types of plugs by different MFG's.
There is no "Pie in the Sky," or I would be fatter than I am now!
Sam:)
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Well put.
I run NGK in everything. I honestly cannot remember a failure in any NGK plug ever.
Champion on the other hand is CRAP IMHO. I have had them destroy 2 stroke outboards when they were actually way hotter than the plug they replaced.
I have a handful of champion Gap less designed for Mercury supercharged outboards that I was attempting to run in the ZX stroker engine... Constant misfires even at higher rpm, and 60K volts. But that goes back to head design.
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NGK for life!!!!!!!!!
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If you can figure out computers, you can surely work on scooters. The way I see it with EVERYTHING, it's not a matter of knowledge more so a mind set. If you know the process of fixing something (computers, dish washers, cars, motorcycles, boats etc) you can transfer that patience to any other manner of repair. Computers and motorcycles/scooters are very similar to work on in a lot of ways. I find myself never trusting those ebsy type products, "15% more power!!!!". Maybe just a bias in that respect I would love to have a dyno to test those plugs, but would put money on no power change whatsoever. Also what zombie said, not having any gap for the spark to form seems wrong.
Bettin, I hadn't refreshed my Tapatalk app when I last posted, and hadn't seen this post yet, but thanks for the great feedback. You're right, a lot of that knowledge can transfer over. I guess the main difference between my experience with computers and now learning bikes, is that when I screw up my computer, the worst that happens is that I lose some data or waste some money...with the bikes, I could actually get killed or stranded miles from home! "Stakes is high..."
Zombie and Porkie, thanks again for sharing the fruits of your extensive experience as well! I'm thinking now that I'm going to put this spark plug up on my shelf as a decoration, or maybe hang it around my neck to remind me not to go poking around in the engine until I actually understand how it works first! I've downloaded the Service Manual and am studying up right now...
I've heard time and again on these forums to basically, "keep it stock, and enjoy," and I'm understanding the wisdom of that more and more. For one thing, I realize now I need to spend more time with this machine as it is and get to know how it runs really well, or else I'm not even going to know if the upgrades are helping or hurting. I'm a tweaker and a customizer by nature (just can't help myself), but I'm thinking I'll be a happier camper if I can limit my upgrades to the cosmetics for the moment...
Really, thanks for all the great advice, folks. I don't understand half of what you told me just YET, but I will soon enough!
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I can tell you for sure you are an asset to all of us here.
Anyone that takes the time to research what they do is obviously someone that has a lot to offer.
If I owned one of the larger engines the first things I would change are the intake/exhaust systems, and move into the Ign system.
The more air/fuel in, and out the more potential power. To reliably fire more mix you need a better spark.
That's where I would spend my time/money.
Getting that power to the ground is the next step. A well tuned CVT is the best drive-ability upgrade. Variators/clutches, and sliders are all readily available but pricey.
That's why I stay w/ the 50cc stuff. An entire new engine costs less than a clutch for your machine.
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Think about it, it's Snake oil.
All they will do is lighten your wallet, some of you more mechanically experienced poster know this (Bet & Win, Zombie among others) and can come up with the reason, don't get sucked in.
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Now I have to wonder what part of the snake the oil comes from. You guys make me think too much.
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I had a friend that used to get tricked all the time on the internet by "cure alls" and stuff. Magic mineral solution was one of the best named "medicine". Lol