KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => LIKE 200i => Topic started by: Stig / Major Tom on July 05, 2014, 10:55:22 AM
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Started yesterday at 25mph steady cruise engine is stumbling/hesitating. Accelerates and idles perfectly.
1)added more known good gas.
2)Checked oil (engine seizing?~~no)
3)Checked air filter and spark plug...they look good and clean.
4)Checked dragging brakes..again OK.
5)Checked for CELP codes...none.
6)Did throttle reset....on,off,etc. No improve ment.
7) checked for vacuum forming in gas tank. Not a problem.
8)disconnected battery to let ECU reset...no help.
9) Recent valve check...perfect.
10) Recent oils (engine & gears)
Today...might be even more pronounced stumbling at pretty much any slow or moderate STEADILY held speed....still idles fine, accelerates fine.
Issue came on slowly yesterday after one hour of riding at my normal speeds (25~38mph). Wouldn't bad gas have shown itself before an hour of riding?
Any ideas out there?
LIKE200iLX with @7000 miles, 16 mos old
Stig
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Also, removed gas cap....came off with no sign of poor venting or vacuum forming.
Still some stumble after battery reconnected.......like a loose wire or someone is momentarily pinching off the gas line.
Thanks for any ideas.
(Got plenty of tools and some spare parts....but somebody on the crew needs to do a better job chekimg the stale date on these emergency tuna sandwiches.....fortunately the emergency Moon Pies are good for 7 years,)
Stig.....sitting in the boonies pretty sure I'll make it home....
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OK, decided there were two ways to remove suspect fuel:
1)with a line to a bucket
2)with a line to the engine
So, spent an hour giving my scoot an Italian Tune Up to get rid of the 1/2tank of gas. (laced with Sea Foam)
Found some great new roads, and had my first real experiences with WOT & near-WOT. My tach showed 8500 RPM's when I finished, and I saw 61MPH as I blasted 4 times up and down a local limited access 55mph highway.
Came home on fumes.
I noted that the scooter ran p e r f e c t l y at these high speeds. Never detected a bit of hesitation or stumble - but maybe was just blasting thru it at those speeds?
Will refuel with different fuel can and see if the Steady 30mph Stumble is still there. (it is not always a minor stumble - sometimes feels like the engine is going to quit) Failing other alternatives - if it's still broke - will call the shop since the engine is still under warranty.
Stig
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Test Sparkplug Cap with VOM for Motorcycles and Mopeds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGfIkwOp-Vk#)
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Stig, when that happened to me and the starter working sporadicly it turned out to be the ground engine block ground cable. As you may recall the bolt holding the cable near the starter motor came loose and the cable was just resting on the engine. It ran fine, but would cutout and spudder at speeds you indicated. Check to see if your ground wire has come loose. Also, check the connections on your battery while your at it. You may also want to add 2 ounces of SeaFoam or some Techron with the next few fill ups to aid in the injector cleaning.
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Stig,
Check the puke tube as well. If it's filled just remove the plug and place a cup under it while running the engine on idle for a few minutes.
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It's
Stig,
Check the puke tube as well. If it's filled just remove the plug and place a cup under it while running the engine on idle for a few minutes.
Troutbum,
Thanks for the 2 suggestions.
I checked both, and battery connections, no.issue.
s found.
Still trying to sort it
Stig
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Stig- Just a thought. I had a similar problem with my 97 VW Golf. Turned out to be the clip holding the fuel injector was misaligned after a spark plug change. I pushed in the injector and clicked in the spring holder and the problem was solved. I would also check the intake manifold for leakage due to a crack or a clamp that may have loosened.
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Hey Stig!
I have a dumb suggestion, (because that's my personal specialty!).
How long since the fuel filter has been changed?
If it's been a while, you might try that since it's a fairly cheap thing to swap out.
Just an idea. I've never claimed to be a BIG help! ::)
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Hey Stig!
I have a dumb suggestion, (because that's my personal specialty!).
How long since the fuel filter has been changed?
If it's been a while, you might try that since it's a fairly cheap thing to swap out.
Just an idea. I've never claimed to be a BIG help! ::)
DMbloos,
Thanks for the idea...if this thing has a fuel filter it must be in the tank, on the fuel pump assy in there, beyond my reach. I'm going to kick around some more ideas - maybe even call the dealer since it is still under warranty for 10 more mos., if the Sea Foam doesn't do the trick in 2 or 3 tanks.
Stig
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On 3rd tank with sea foam....no improvement, after 20mins seems less bad. Maybe. Still.no celp fault codes.
Stig
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DMbloos,
Thanks for the idea...if this thing has a fuel filter it must be in the tank, on the fuel pump assy in there, beyond my reach. I'm going to kick around some more ideas - maybe even call the dealer since it is still under warranty for 10 more mos., if the Sea Foam doesn't do the trick in 2 or 3 tanks.
Stig
I would have thought that it would still have a fuel filter somewhere in the fuel line. Even all my fuel injected cars I've owned had an inline fuel filter to keep crud from the tank from cocking up the fuel injection.
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Stig,
Did you over fill the tank at all? I'm wondering if the evap canister is filled with fuel. This can cause sporadic performance.
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Stig,
Did you over fill the tank at all? I'm wondering if the evap canister is filled with fuel. This can cause sporadic performance.
Have no idea....think not. Did change out valve snd lines from the fuel neck vent.
SYM folks rip out the whole evap/tree~hugger system....I'd like to do that.
Checked more grounds today, retightened intake breather fittings, checked.exhaust bolts, replaced reg NGK with iridium because of its ability to fire under less than ideal conditions.
Refitted and tightened injector, and plug wire to coil.
Beginning to think something quit working rather than something came loose.
Injector, ECU, coil, ....? Still no celp fault codes.
Will try calling the Vespa/Aprilia dealer for service.
Stig
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Stig,
Sorry for your troubles...I'd change the plug just to be doing if I had an extra.
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I think the warranty route is the way to go. Hopefully it will be a quick fix and you'll be back riding those Ohio backcountry roads once again.
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Stig, For all the assistance you've been to so many Like owners...Kymko should send a rep to your house for a warranty service call.
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Stig, pls don´t selll it. :o You were my inspiration for buying the same scooter across the pond. :) ;)
It´s such a lovely nice litte Scooter and so much fun to drive.
I would also suggest to go the warranty route. That´s why we have it... For how long? 2 Years.
Shouldn´t be such a problem to solve for a good scooter repair shop/ kymco dealer.
You might contact any of those Kymco Dealers near your home.
It´s either a electrical/electronical Problem, or a Fuel/Injection Problem.
Don´t give up. And don´t baby it too much. Drive it passionately, WOT it from time to time and have much fun. 8) :D
Have you checked the relays? They make sometimes bad unstable contacts when burned. Caused by a weak battery.
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Stig, you're breaking about 200 hearts. You have to take it to the dealer and see if it can be repaired under warranty even if you decide to sell it, right? Be steady, stick with us brother!
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Stig, you're breaking about 200 hearts. You have to take it to the dealer and see if it can be repaired under warranty even if you decide to sell it, right? Be steady, stick with us brother!
Ditto from me! what is the point of a warranty if you don't use it. Get it checked out and report back. You have taken such great care of your scoot it can't be a fatal error. ;)
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Ditto from Canada,
Stig, I know you tried sea-foam but I wanted to suggest a product marketed specifally for cleaning fuel injection systems - any one of them should do. Please forgive me if your sea-foam is just that.
Also, have you tried dropping in the old copper spark plug? Just a troubleshooting step from your friendly neighborhood computer tech.
All else fails make the dealer fix it!
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Ditto from Canada,
Stig, I know you tried sea-foam but I wanted to suggest a product marketed specifally for cleaning fuel injection systems - any one of them should do. Please forgive me if your sea-foam is just that.
Also, have you tried dropping in the old copper spark plug? Just a troubleshooting step from your friendly neighborhood computer tech.
All else fails make the dealer fix it!
Hey Canada & Other Friends,
SYM fellow suggested these were symptons of a failing coil.
Replaced it tonight (NOT fun - mounting screws on the outside of frame member - against body panels) - didn't help - same severe stumble at 20>35MPH.
Have been thru 3 plugs & 3 tanks of SeaFoam this week - no improvement. Done everything I can think of & I'm out of ideas. Something quit working last week an hour into a ride.
This is my 4-season work commute car. After only 7000 miles.... - I need reliability to get me to the end of my 30 yrs & retirement (3 yrs away) of my second career. (yeah, OK I put 6K of those miles on it goofing around at sunrise with the rabbits)
I love this dumb scooter.
Hard to think of giving it to the dealer for several weeks & walking & riding the city bus again when it's not actively snowing!! You ever sit on one of those pretty Repsol CBR250's or the new CBR300....cheaper than the same size scoots! And it's a HONDA....
But I love this dumb scoot...
You guys are something else....
Stig
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The only fuel additive a lot of OEMs allow under warranty is techron, must be a reason for that. Hope you get it solved Stig...........I wonder if that kill switch could be the problem, some times when I'm starting mine and it wants to start it'll spit and sputter. Then after flipping that switch a few times it will start right up and purr like a kitten. I'm still not sure if it was off/on at 1st. .........maybe. Read where that kill switch is a problem on these, wonder if the spark/cdi/fuel inj powers up through that switch. Need a wiring diagram......I'll see if it's in my manual.
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The only fuel additive a lot of OEMs allow under warranty is techron, must be a reason for that. Hope you get it solved Stig...........I wonder if that kill switch could be the problem, some times when I'm starting mine and it wants to start it'll spit and sputter. Then after flipping that switch a few times it will start right up and purr like a kitten. I'm still not sure if it was off/on at 1st. .........maybe. Read where that kill switch is a problem on these, wonder if the spark/cdi/fuel inj powers up through that switch. Need a wiring diagram......I'll see if it's in my manual......not there but it does say it powers the ignition circuit, could be the problem.
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Stig, why don´t you - at least - call the dealer and tell him about the symptoms of the scooter and your checks so far. He then either might already know what´s wrong, or he can/should ask the mechanics from the US main importer what it could be. Maybe then they already had this kind of problem and therefore know what to do. Or they themselve then will have to ask the manufacterer in Taiwan/China....
If a halfway good dealer knows his job and is smart enough to count up to three more or less fluently, he won´t need several weeks to fix your little but nasty problem.
It´s just a fuelinjected little scooter, not a space shuttle. :D
And the dealer might/should have a rental bike/test bike for free or litte costs for one or two days. So you won´t need the city bus either.
Keep it simple.
I am looking forward reading your report back and the outcome of that whole issue story. :)
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Stig,
have it checked under warranty and be done with it. The sooner you do the sooner you can enjoy doing those naked midnight rides you are so famous for in Ohio. :o
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Been wondering about stigs scoot, was hoping to hear some news. I hope every thing is cool and it was an easy fix.
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He got pissed about something... I think there is a larger picture here.
I hope it's all good myself. Started to like the guy.
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He was very knowledgeable about the like 200i and I appreciated his input. Anyways hope all is well. To me the like is the perfect scoot, 200i, anything bigger I'd get a 250cc m/c like a rebel or etc.........I liked Stig as a person too.
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You're already using Past tense... Maybe he's just hiding under the bed for awhile. Got some cookies, and made a fort?
I hope he remembers to turn off the light bulb. Bed forts go up like mobile homes.
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Stig is just out riding his new Forza. He'll be back soon. LOL.
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Stig is just out riding his new Forza. He'll be back soon. LOL.
Don't forget to add the Piaggio BV 350.
It has the slight advantage over the Forza because it looks like the pretty Italian big sister to the LIKE200i.
Stig
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I knew you were alive.I could feel your breath.
Update?
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Hey there Stig! We was gettin' worried for a minute or three! 8)
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Don't forget to add the Piaggio BV 350.
It has the slight advantage over the Forza because it looks like the pretty Italian big sister to the LIKE200i.
Stig
I forgot about the BV350. High horsepower. Price is not insane.
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Your like has 7000 miles on it. Did you have the dealer run diagnostics on it as recommended in the owners manual at 1000KM?
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I think he used the bike as a mooring anchor for his new pontoon boat. (mid life crisis)
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Scoot running so poorly I had to park it.
Took it to the dealer today. Guess who's never heard of a Kymco diagnostic tool?
These guys have sold Kymcos for yrs...this is a testament to how well they run... they just keep going with no dealer support. They said that plug-in down by the battery is for the battery tender.
Perhaps this explains why I tried so many ways to fix it in my garage....
Stig
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Greatest freak out ever (ORIGINAL VIDEO) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YersIyzsOpc#)
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Sorry Stig, Had to do it...
Did you see my post on testing the O2 sensor?
You can pull it from the pipe, and using a DVM, and a propane torch you can see if it is reading.
I don't believe you have a sensor problem tho. It would have shown on the ECU UNLESS it is a bad ECU.
The O2 sensor will create approx 1 volt after 2-3 minutes of heating. Remove the heat, and it should drop back to 0 volts in 2-3 seconds. A second test it to disconnect the pigtail, and run a wire up to one hand from the O2 wire that goes to the ECU. Attach a wire to the positive battery post, and your other hand. I know the bike has to be under load to see the problem... Bear w/ me. Ride the bike w/ these wires in each hand, and see if the problem clears.
The idea of this is your body acts a a resistor, and it will allow approx 1 volt at some milli amps to trick the ECU into thinking the O2 sensor is reading.
Reaching yes but it's better than fort'ing up.
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Hey, Stig! Don't throw in the towel! It ran great for 7000 miles and now there is a reason it has a hiccup 20-35 mph. Tough part is to find it. The analyzer will not show any codes beyond what the bike shows. It will show some values but then the service manual is in question for what the values should be. I am not surprised the dealer was "mistaken" about the "battery tender" plug in the battery box. This forum knows more about the Kymcos THAN ANY DEALER! You said you did the Like initialize, right? OK, here is one more recommendation: get your ohmmeter and check the TPS pot for range and SMOOTHNESS. Make sure it changes progressively from throttle closed to WOT. Then call us in the morning.
Karl
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Scoot running so poorly I had to park it.
Took it to the dealer today. Guess who's never heard of a Kymco diagnostic tool?
These guys have sold Kymcos for yrs...this is a testament to how well they run... they just keep going with no dealer support. They said that plug-in down by the battery is for the battery tender.
Perhaps this explains why I tried so many ways to fix it in my garage....
Stig
Stig,
Whenever I brought my Like into the dealer they wanted to treat it as if it was a Vespa. They don't follow Kymco's maintenance schedule. Instead they follow Vespa's. That is why I service my Like myself and only let them do warranty work. My warranty ends in 2 more weeks. At 8,000 miles and following Kymco's service schedule my Like is running better today than when I bought it 2 years ago. So far the only warranty issues have been defective batteries and a seal behind the variator. If electrical becomes a problem I dread handing it over to a dealer. At that point if I can't resolve the issue myself I'll scrap it for a Vespa 300 or BV350. I fortunately have lots of knowledgeable Vespa/Piaggo folks in my neck of the woods. Anyway, I hope your Like gets fixed soon and you're back to riding.
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Stig,
Whenever I brought my Like into the dealer they wanted to treat it as if it was a Vespa. They don't follow Kymco's maintenance schedule. Instead they follow Vesa's. That is why I service my Like myself and only let them do warranty work. My warranty ends in 2 more weeks. At 8,000 miles and following Kymco's service schedOppule my Like is running better today than when I bought it 2 years ago. So far the only warranty issues have been defective batteries and a seal behind the variator. If electrical becomes a problem I dread handing it over to a dealer. At that point if I can't resolve the issue myself I'll scrap it for a Vespa 300 or BV350. I fortunately have lots of knowledgeable Vespa/Piaggo folks in my neck of the woods. Anyway, I hope your Like gets fixed soon and you're back to riding.
Well, we see what the dealer comes up with. Surely these guys are not complete and idiots....they sell and service Burgmans, Magesties, Gold Wings, and Ducatis!!
I need to have a better attitude! The
Fyi.....it is the complete opposite situation here re. Italian scoots.... I love everything about the BV350...but if that rural dealer ever packs his bags from lack of business...I'd be sunk for dealer support and parts. So, sadly, the Italians are out of the question for me, where I live.
Looking real hard at the 2014 Forza.
Stig
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even if you swap out bikes (which at 7K miles I understand) you will still need the Kymco to be running if you want to use it as a trade in. Same for a private sale. The dealer may not want it, and a private buyer will beat you to death on the price.
Hang tight man. It's just a plastic toy.
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Stig.....I am by no means a mechanic but I had a very similar situation (although not on a scooter) and it turned out to be an exhaust problem. Engine wasn't/couldn't breath properly. It always started fine but the minute it was put under any stress, it would begin to run like it was flooded or fouling. Could be way off but consider all the exits.
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Stig's killing us here, any news on the problem or is a new bike in the garage? Details, info and specs are always needed for the curious.