KymcoForum.com
General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: Haarek on May 16, 2014, 08:19:37 PM
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I want to test my idea on you guys and check if my thinking is off:
This spring I have started using premium car oil in my Downtown instead of my usual premium MC oil.
Off course I use the same weight (SAE 10-40w)
This is why I think I can do this unpunished:
-MC oil is optimized for a wet clutch. And as you all know our engines use a different principle.
-My scooter is not revving as high as a performance motorcycle. The compression and power loading is not extreme compared to a modern car. Besides I use my scooter for transport - not for breaking the sound barrier ;)
Why?
-Cheaper oil
-Why pay for features that probably isn't needed.
I am certain that my scooter won't self-destruct using car oil, but my question is more in the line of: Will my scooter run just as well on car oil as on the super-duper motorcycle oil on the golden bottle?
So what do you guys think?
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My gut feeling is that quality auto oil will do just fine.
Most people do not keep scoots, motorcycles, and cars for a very long time.
Personally I think modern motor oils are great and do a good job of protecting engines.
I started reading about motor oils about five years ago. Mostly concerning motorcycles.
From what I can gather, some oils do protect better than others. Example: synthetics.
In wear ball, heat test, and shear strengths , the synthetics excel.
My question concerning motor scooter and motorcycle engines is; are antifoaming agents really necessary?.
We have two motor scooters in the family at the present time. I put synthetic oil in them because it gives me peace of mind. Is this necessary?. Probably not. Might be a waste of money.
I have a small pickup truck I bought new in 1990. It still runs good to this day and has never had the valve cover off.
Ninty eight percent of the time I have used Havoline oil and Fram filters.
I think your scooter will be fine if you use conventional oil and keep filter and oil changed regularly.
Just my opinion but, I`m a dummy!
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Yes you can... car oil is ok.... I use Delo for diesel... the secret to long engine life is not really the best oil but in making sure that the oil is always fresh and at the proper level...
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Thanks for the replies . I assumed as much, but it is nice to know there are some consensus.
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Well, scooters rely on a CVT transmission where a motorcycle baths its clutch in the same oil as the engine.
So our scooters really are more related to a car in that sense. Scooters do not need motorcycle oil as those have friction modifiers for the wet clutch to work properly.
Car oil is cheaper and you're not paying for those additives that you do not need.
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I buy a gallon jug of Rotella T 15w-40 for around $15 and it lasts for years. When I bought my Agility, I told the dealer I would be doing my own oil changes and that is what he told me to buy. The engine still sounds great after 12,000km. Agree with the above that hitting the intervals and keeping it topped up are more important than expensive synthetics.
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I would probably use Rotella T6 5W40 synthetic diesel engine oil for those extra protective additives that are frowned upon in cars and catalytic converters and emissions but favoured by motorcycles. Kymco specifies synthetic for the Downtown, and 5Wxx will help the engine get lubricated quicker when starting up first thing in the day.
Smaller modern scoots with no oil filter I pour in Rotella Triple 10W30 or 10W40 diesel conventional engine oil. 15W40 may be a bit thick when cold depending where you live. Oil change intervals are short anyways, so conventional saves me money.
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15W40 may be a bit thick when cold depending where you live. Oil change intervals are short anyways, so conventional saves me money.
I know that some of the different Kymco models have different recommended SAE viscosity ratings. My Agility's manual specifies 15W40, so users should definitely check the rating recommended for their bike.
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That's a very good suggestion. Sometimes the manual will have a chart outlining acceptable oil viscosity and operating temperatures. I know my old Bet and Win 250 simply specified 15W40, but it had more trouble starting and idling first thing in the 40°F morning until my mechanic suggested an oil with a thinner cold weight.
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in my 300i downtown Ive used syn. mobil 1, 5 w 50 and it seems to get better every year, over 24,000 miles now , so I am on happy trails ,. I should call the scoot Trigger if you guys remember Roy rogers,.
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Well, scooters rely on a CVT transmission where a motorcycle baths its clutch in the same oil as the engine.
So our scooters really are more related to a car in that sense. Scooters do not need motorcycle oil as those have friction modifiers for the wet clutch to work properly.
Car oil is cheaper and you're not paying for those additives that you do not need.
Pardon, I think you meant no friction modifiers. Friction modifiers is what causes problems with wet clutches.
Excuse me if I`m mistaken.
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Correct, boo.
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Pardon, I think you meant no friction modifiers. Friction modifiers is what causes problems with wet clutches.
Excuse me if I`m mistaken.
oh, my bad.
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It'll actually be more protected with regular car oil than with wet-clutch-type motorcycle oil, because of those friction modifiers that can't be used with motorcycles that have wet clutches.
The general consensus is that diesel-rated oil is better, since it has the detergents and buffers in it to keep the oil clean and un-acidified. Our scooters are somewhat akin to a diesel engine in terms of quickly polluting the oil.
And a diesel-rated synthetic oil would be best of all, of course.
When I was breaking my scoot in, I used 15W-40 dino oil for diesels, and changed it at 50, 100, 200, 400, and 800 miles, then every 600 miles after that. After break-in, I switched to Royal Purple 15W-40. You can greatly expand the life of an engine by frequently changing the oil during break-in. I *should* have changed the oil at 25 miles, but I went for a ride and went right past 25 miles, so I figured I'd do it starting at 50 miles.
Don't buy into the hype of using thinner oil as a means of "gaining a fraction of a HP or MPG"... the thicker oil provides a wider safety margin in those moving parts that might just touch (and gall) with a thinner oil. So even though Kymco has stated that my scoot would be OK with a 10W-30, I stick to what was originally specified for it, 15W-40. And that becomes even more important as the scooter ages and clearances in the engine open up a bit.
At 6229.8 miles (I went 29.8 miles past the scheduled 6200 mile oil change due to too much other stuff going on at the time), I started three courses of treatment with LiquiMoly Ceratec. I put 1/3 of the can of LiquiMoly Ceratec in at the next three oil changes. I can't say there's been an improvement in fuel mileage, because there hasn't, but there was a slight power boost that allowed me to increase my Dr. Pulley slider weights from 16 to 18 grams with almost no discernible change from what stock feels like without the Ceratec (it actually pulls a bit harder to top end now than it used to without Ceratec and with the lighter sliders). And a bit of a boost to my top-end speed, too, although that just tends to push me into the rev limiter more easily (and it's already too easy to get there).
I've been itching to try out the Royal Purple 15W-40 with Synerlec (some sort of additive, I can't find much info on it, though)... apparently it's good for engines that don't have a roller type valve train. It's hard to find around here, though.
As for the gear train, when I was using the factory-specified gear oil (75W-90), I kept noticing lots of 'glitter' in the gear oil when draining it. I went to Royal Purple MaxGear 75W-140 with Synerlec, and now the 'glitter' is gone.
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For what it's worth, motorcycle oils have molybdenum disulfide friction modifier for wear protection like car oils, but in smaller amounts. Motorcycle and diesel oils likely have more zinc phosphate to limit wear which is greatly limited in modern car oils to protect the catalytic converter if the engine consumes oil. It's an engineering tradeoff.
Thinner weights of oil may provide better flow and less wear at startup, but if in doubt, it is best to have an oil pressure gauge before experimenting to ensure adequate pressure at all engine speeds. Warmer climates should be fine with thicker grades.
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I use mobil1 5000 (conventional oil) during first 600 miles (aka break-in), after that I switched to mobil1 racing 4T 10w40 for about 2500 miles
It revs pretty fast, but I felt lots of vibration while riding on interstates @ 80+mph
After that, I switched to Fuchs Silkolene Pro 10W40 because of the ester formula and superior noise/vibration reduction they claimed.
The vibration is greatly reduced, I replaced the engine oil around 2800 miles and it still feels great and smooth.
I have been using Shell Rotella T6 5w40 on my '98 MB C230 for 100K+ miles with only great result.
After reading some positive feedback about using T6 on MC, I will probably switch to T6 next oil change
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a bright lovely morning
do u use fully synthetic oil from day one or use mineral oil during break in to make sure all parts have wore correctly then turn to fully synthetic after 3000k for example?
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Everybody has their own opinions. I have a GTI300 and live in Central (Syracuse) New York. So far I have changed my oil, filter, and differential oil at 122, 504, 1001, 2008, and 2949 miles. I use Mobil 1 full synthetic 10w-40 in the engine, and Mobil 1 75w-90 in the differential. I can't find the 10w-40 anymore in 5 quart jugs around here so next spring I'm changing over to a 15w-50 for the engine. Your manual shows a chart with engine oil viscosity vs temperature. You have several different options for your particular area. Get your oil based on the temperature range you ride in. Personally I prefer a full synthetic oil. Here again, let your conscious be your guide. I buy my oil in 5 quart jugs from Wallmart and it's not that much more than conventional oil. I run full synthetic in everything I own from lawnmowers to my vehicles.
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a bright lovely morning
do u use fully synthetic oil from day one or use mineral oil during break in to make sure all parts have wore correctly then turn to fully synthetic after 3000k for example?
Different opinions on this one also. Personally I have a GTI300 and a 2014 Ford Escape. I changed over to full synthetic on both vehicles in the first 200 miles with no problem. They both run like a top. Either way will work, but I personally recommend getting the "break-in" oil out right away. My preference for all my equipment is full synthetic. Automobile oil will work fine. Do what feels right to you. It's your scooter and money.
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2 questions. First, is the Rotella t6 full synthetic 5-40w(diesel oil)OK to use in the people gt300i? I use this in my Goldwing 1500 and used it in my Piaggio mp3 500 per recommendations on the Piaggio forums. I use Castrol 4T 10-40 full syn motorcycle oil on my Triumph Tiger 800XC.
Or am I better using a automobile full synthetic as there is no wet clutch, like on my motorcycles
And what is the REAL recommended mileage for oil changes when full synthetic is used
TIA
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Diesel oil is the best choice for scooter engines, some will argue this fact with me. Diesel oil is meant to absorb more contamination than regular motor oil, scooter engines and single cylinder engines in general put more of a toll on oil than other engines. I hear most people on here say 5w50 is the choice for the 300i. Or you could do 15w40 summer and 10w40 winter. Just look in your owners manual and it'll have recommended oil for temp.
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My 2 cents. Go with the viscosity it says to use. I know its a wild idea and all but Kymco build the SOB. The DT has the same motor as my GT so that calls for 5w-50 syn. Bet ya money you'll never have a problem with that in a good car oil. I disagree with using diesel oil. And going above 5w or 10w isn't smart. Read up on lab tests if you wish but if you go syn like Kymco says and get tue newest API rating you'll be golden. Oil has it's biggest viscosity drop in the first 600 miles or so. Going with a 40 when it suggests a 50 means you'll be that much further from the viscosity needed after several hundred miles. Two or three dollars more in oil wont break the bank. Im running Castrol Edge 5w 50. Next Im gonna run Motorcraft 5w 50.
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Well, I changed the oil and filter using the Rotella T6 5-40 synthetic diesel oil for the motor and Mobil 1 75-90 in the rear end. FWIW, a lag I previously noticed at 25mph, 35mph, and 45 mph is gone. This could just be the belt "settling in" but it was doing it before the change and it was gone immediately after the change, so who knows.