KymcoForum.com
Scooters - Big Bore => Xciting 500 => Topic started by: alyn 7777 on April 18, 2014, 03:48:17 AM
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Just curious what tire pressures and stock shock settings you guys are running. I have a 2009 500 RI ABS so it's the heaviest stock Xciting made and I've added a Givi tall windshield, a E360 top case and a couple of nylon Nelson Rigg side bags so the bike is even heavier than that plus the rear top case adds weight past the rear axle. The stock Maxxi tires were crap but they were way stiffer than the Michelin City Grips which I love. Problem with the City's is they have a 33 max psi listed on the sidewall and the Xciting calls for 36psi on the rear tire. With all my above add-ons, the bike feels most stable/responsive with 32psi front/36psi or more rear and the "5" (max) setting on the stock shocks. Anything less than that and the ride is tentative and handles a bit sloppy. I am 6'2", 190lbs and never ride 2 up. So again, my question is A) what are you guys running loaded up pressure-wise and shock setting-wise (also what kind of tires?) and B) Do you think it's safe to run the City Grips above the recommended 33 max psi? I wish I could put 38psi in the rear as I would like a firmer ride but fear they might blow. Comments???
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Bearer of bad news as usual... Read the load rating on the tire. Does it meet the weight of the bike?
Reason I ask is City Grips are a scooter tire, and MAY not be rated high enough for your Maxi-scooter
That being said... No you cannot go beyond the max pressure. Tires develop more pressure when hot so you compound the issue. Ever seen a tire explode? It WILL kill you if you are just sitting next to it. As bad as a stick of dynamite.
If you need a tire w/ better capacity I would strongly suggest Avon Viper Stryke or Pirelli Diabollo. City Grips are a mid line tire made for low budget riding. Nothing more
I have owned both tires suggested, and they both grip on wet as well as dry, and you can adjust the pressures just as you described. Avons I ran at 34 rear, and 30 front. Pirellis I run at 38 rear, and 34 front. Even one pound either way and I can feel the difference. I carry a tire gauge, and check the air every fill up.
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Interesting. Max load could be an issue but isn't in my case since I don't overload. The curb weight on the rear wheel of the X 500 per the manual is 310lbs. The Givi E360 weighs 17lbs with the mount and the Nelson Rigg side bags weigh 13lbs. With riding gear I weigh 210lbs so that equals 550lbs for my setup and the City Grip 150/70-14 66S rear I am running is rated at 660lbs. I never travel with more than 40lbs of stuff and that's only maybe 10% of the time. Certainly anyone with a setup like mine riding 2 up would be taking a huge risk with the City's.
So with the load rating being ok, the max PSI question remains. Can one run a 33psi rated tire at 36? I've read that tire manufacturers rate the tire at a top speed/max load scenario, meaning the 150/70-14 66S's max inflation would be rated for a 112mph (the "S" rating) and a 660lbs load rating scenario. Since I'm normally running at a max 575lbs and an average of 65mph (never had the bike over 80mph) is the rear City inflated to 36psi safe?
I hate to swap tires at this point as they only have 2k on them. Would appreciate any comments from anyone actually running the 150/70-14 66S City Grip on the rear of their Xciting 500 as these seem to be a popular tire for our scoots? Are you running them at 36PSi? If so, how many miles do you have on them?
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Well I run over pressure on my car all the time that's how you get the good mileage!
I'd guess you could go quite a bit over with no bad things happening. The max is
under the worst possible conditions it is guaranteed to stay working. I'd hope they
built in a margin of saftey. You might wear them out quicker though as they're in a
high stress situation...
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I completely understand your asking feedback from fellow riders w/ similar set ups. Only logical way to go.
Take a look at this search page... It may help answer the nagging question completely.
over inflate a tire - Google Search
https://www.google.com/search?client=aff-maxthon-maxthon4&channel=t27&q=over%20inflate%20a%20tire (https://www.google.com/search?client=aff-maxthon-maxthon4&channel=t27&q=over%20inflate%20a%20tire)
I have been in mechanical trades my entire life. (so far) I hope this helps.
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It's such a tough call. Am waiting on Michelin to call me back on the Max PSi for the Power Pure Sc 150/70-14 it has the same load rating as the City and also the Avon (66s). These manufacturers don't list max psi on their websites and now it's kind of pissing me off. Had I known the City's were only rated to 33psi, I wouldn't have bought them. What is the Max Psi on the Avon 150/70-14? Anyone? 160/60-14s are also an option. There seem to be more of those around. Doing the calc on the Kymco as I did earlier I can't find any tire that truly works when riding 2 up - e.g. if there's already 310lbs load at the rear on a vacant Xciting then a normal driver with passenger is going to be another 330lbs minimum with riding gear, add some top cases and 50lbs of stuff and you're loading up that rear tire with over 660lbs, more than a 66 load rating is designed to handle. I realize when riding 2 up some of that load is on the front wheel too, but not much,
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Here ya go...
Avon Motorcycle Tyres North America » Tire Pressure Guidelines
http://www.avonmoto.com/tech/tire-pressure-guidelines (http://www.avonmoto.com/tech/tire-pressure-guidelines)
This is a PDF that will tell you everything you will ever need to know about scooter tires, and applications...
http://simplyroad.ua/upload/catalogs/ru/2014DragPUTire_02.pdf (http://simplyroad.ua/upload/catalogs/ru/2014DragPUTire_02.pdf)
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Nice resources, thanks! Interesting that the Pirelli Diablo 160/60-14 recommended for the Burgman 650 (and would fit the Xciting) is rated at 65 which is a lower load limit than the 66 of the 150/70-14 City Grip. So it gets down to max psi which the catalogue doesn't list. I'm assuming the max psi of the Diablo is 36 or higher but I have no way to check.
FWIW, I always found it weird that Kymco calls for a rear 36psi whether 2-up or solo. The other two scoots I've had always recommended an increase in pressure on the rear tire for 2 up. Wonder if it's because the factory oem Maxxi tires were rated at 36 max psi and they didn't want the liability of exceeding that? Which begs the question, is 38psi a better pressure for a medium to heavily loaded Xciting 500. Running at 38psi on the City's always felt better to me, even though now I'm back down to 35.
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over inflate a tire - Google Search
https://www.google.com/search?client=aff-maxthon-maxthon4&channel=t27&q=over%20inflate%20a%20tire (https://www.google.com/search?client=aff-maxthon-maxthon4&channel=t27&q=over%20inflate%20a%20tire)
I quit. ::)
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Well, tons of people on that search certainly screaming 'don't overinflate your tires'. So by that logic Michelin City grips should not be on a Kymco Xciting 500, period. There is no possible way they can work if 36psi is the safe pressure advocated by Kymco and 33psi is the max psi for the tire. Problem is if I run the rear City at 33psi the bike handles like total s**t and I'll never get on it. So I'll run at 35psi (not great but bearable) for a couple thousand more miles and then replace the tire.
I'm pretty stunned no one on this forum responded who runs City Grips on there 500. I know there are plenty out there. Anyway for those who did respond, thanks!
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You're welcome sir.
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Use up to the max air stated on the tire and don't worry about it. :-*
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Use up to the max air stated on the tire and don't worry about it. :-*
Ahhhh! Sanity is restored.
http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=11400.0;topicseen (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=11400.0;topicseen)
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Well according to this article underinflating can cause a failure but not over inflation;
Disadvantages of Underinflation
An underinflated tire can't maintain its shape and becomes flatter than intended while in contact with the road. If a vehicle’s tires are underinflated by only 6 psi it could lead to tire failure. Additionally, the tire’s tread life could be reduced by as much as 25%. Lower inflation pressure will allow the tire to deflect (bend) more as it rolls. This will build up internal heat, increase rolling resistance and cause a reduction in fuel economy of up to 5%. You would experience a significant loss of steering precision and cornering stability. While 6 psi doesn’t seem excessively low, remember, it usually represents about 20% of the tire’s recommended pressure.
Disadvantages of Overinflation
An overinflated tire is stiff and unyielding and the size of its footprint in contact with the road is reduced. If a vehicle's tires are overinflated by 6 psi, they could be damaged more easily when running over potholes or debris in the road. Higher inflated tires cannot isolate road irregularities well, causing them to ride harsher. However, higher inflation pressures usually provide an improvement in steering response and cornering stability up to a point. This is why participants who use street tires in autocrosses, track events and road races run higher than normal inflation pressures. The pressure must be checked with a quality air gauge as the inflation pressure cannot be accurately estimated through visual inspection.
I'm not sure why manufactures create a vehicle that has no support IE correct tires available...
My new car (Chevy Spark) uses 40 PSI to get better fuel economy and they were delivered from the dealer
at 45, 47, 42 ,42 PSI. Many gauges are not very accurate and if you fill at 32F when the weather warms
you have to recheck them...
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"Use up to the max air stated on the tire and don't worry about it."
I guess I wasn't clear in my first post. With the City Grip inflated to less than 36psi on my rig the ride is dogs**t. It's tentative, squishy and I don't like riding the bike. That is something I have to worry about as I like to enjoy my bike and I like to feel in control of it. In a stripped down Xciting 500 with a lighter rider running at 33psi it might be okay and enjoyable but at my weight it ain't. That's why I started this discussion. What's wild is Michelin shows the City Grip as the only tire they recommend for the bike, ditto for the new Xciting 400. Kymco recommends 32psi for the Xciting 400 so the City Grips are fine.
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:D :D SOLVED :D :D
Zombie, thanks for all the hard work in trying to help, I do appreciate it but, as you can tell, I verify things for myself and thankfully I did because you were wrong. Generally you'd be right with your 'don't overinflate over max psi' logic but not in this case. For others using a search engine for an answer to this, here is the bottom line on this tire:
Re: Michelin City Grip 150/70-14 66S Tire
General Notes from a 20 minute conversation with the heads of Michelin Motorcycle Tire Support Group:
First off, this 150/17-14 66s is NOT a small/medium scooter tire. This tire is a purposely built tire for a Maxi scooter and though it's not a radial tire it is used on Kymco Xciting 500s, Piaggio X9 500s and a lot of Burgman 650s around the world without problems. In fact most who use them (including me) prefer them over Avon, Pirelli and Metzler. The confusion arises because 33 Max PSI is clearly listed on the sidewall yet, in the Xciting's case, 36psi is listed as the rear pressure by Kymco, Piaggio wants the X9 500 to be at 37psi in the rear when riding two up, and the Burgman 650 even higher. So what should we do???
Short answer from Michelin re: this City Grip -- ALWAYS RUN AT THE MANUFACTURER RECOMMENDED PRESSURE. PERIOD.
But that seems counterintuitive as 33 max psi is listed on the sidewall? It is stupid and Michelin should probably change that in the 150/70-14 66Ss case but they haven't so run the tires at the pressure your bike recommends, NOT LOWER!
FWIW, here's why Michelin lists the 33psi on City Grips: As Zombie originally pointed out, MOST of the City Grip sizes are made for smaller or medium size scooters. Almost all of these scooters probably have a 32psi or lower recommendation for the rear tire. Michelin has found that a lot of owners just look at the sidewall and use the max psi as the number they inflate to and then jump on the bike. So what Michelin does in the City Grip's case (not all tires) is show a Max PSI on the sidewall that is closest to what most manufacturers will recommend for the bikes they will fit on. If they had listed the max psi as a lot higher these riders would be in trouble. So 33 max psi works great for all sizes in the City Grip line EXCEPT for the 150/70-14. What is the real max psi for the 150/70-14 probably much, much higher but if they listed it on all City Grips, a lot of folks might run at this on smaller bikes so they would have a liability. Regardless, I've been told by Michelin corporate to run this specific 150/70-14 66S at 36psi like Kymco suggests. Which makes sense as I have run them at 36psi for 9 months and 5,000 miles without issue. What spooked me was Zombie's response and thankfully, in this case though well intentioned he was wrong. No harm no foul, it was a great education. Hopefully this will help others who are confused about THIS PARTICULAR TIRE and SIZE. Please do not read this and think that the above answer from Michelin relates to any other tire in their line, it may or may not, I only asked about one tire, the 150/70-14 66S.
Peace, out.
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Well good for you sir. I am glad you sorted it out to a satisfactory conclusion. When in doubt.... Contact the manufacturer. Best advice on the net for any situation.
Glad I have Pirellis tho. ;D
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Pirellis may be my next. :)
I lobbied hard o have Michelin raise the max psi on future batches of this particular tire because the whole thing is confusing as hell and we shouldn't have to work this hard.
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I have the city grips on my 2009 xciting, love them. They have about 1,000 miles on them and I run the front at about 30psi, and rear about 33. Shocks I set at 4, I figure 4 is good as I weigh 220 lbs. I never really experimented with the shock setting , id be interested in what you all set shocks at?