KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => zx50 => Topic started by: Shaka on September 08, 2009, 09:59:01 PM
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I think I have done about every upgrade I can to my ZX50 and I still can't get more than about 50-52mph as indicated on the speedo!
What are others getting?
Am I missing something, or is that just all it will do?
Set-up:
- 70cc Airsal cylinder kit
- Arreche 19mm carb w/ 115 main jet
- K&N air filter (open cone type)
- Technigas Next R exhaust
- De-restricted CDI via green wire splice
- Malossi variator, tried w/ various rollers from 6.5-9gr
- Malossi kevlar belt
- Stock clutch w/ green springs
- Running premix 92 octane @ 38-1 ratio w/ full synthetic
Any input is greatly appreciated!
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my two zx 50's run 47/48 mph. The place I bought them from did the original mod and had them to low 40 and then another shop took out the rev limiter. i'm close to your speed and i'm still at 49.9.cc
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That's what I'm saying! With the 70cc I expected to be up around 60mph. It seems like the engine just won't spin any faster, like something is limiting it. Could it be the CDI? I took off the wire splice to test to make sure it was de-restrictig and it did about 47mph. You could definitely feel it limiting the RPMs. I put the splice connector back on and still only got 50-52mph max. It didn't seem like the CDI was limiting it though. My other theories are the reeds or the carb just isn't tuned right. The carb seems to be real close though. It's definitely not perfect, but it runs pretty good. It has somewhat of a "sweet spot" at about 1/4 throttle where it will accelerate like it does at about 3/4 throttle. Other than that it's seems good. If I up-jet it bogs. I'm reluctant to go smaller as I don't want to run too lean. It just doesn't seem like less fuel would give me another 10mph top end either. Am I wrong? Any other ideas?
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Hey shaka< the only difference between our scoots would be I have a 27mm delorto w/ a 95 jet.I cut down yz-80 carbon reeds to fit (cut the thick end),I did a little porting on my jug (mostly clearing out mounds of metal that was causing limited flow), Take the stock packing out of your pipe, and replace it w/ 4 turns of HEAVY fiberglass (fab mat is what it is referd to) And install a 130x60 rear tire. these should get you the extra 10 mph. I think the first 3 things made the biggest diff. Maybe a smaller jet w/ a thinner needle will help your carb problem. The smaller jet will help your top end bog, and the thinner needle will still give you the sweet mid range. Your carb manuf. will be LOTS more help than the dealer. If only all of lifes problems were so easy!
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Zombie-
How do you get the packing out of the silencer? I don't recall seeing any way to take it apart. ???
Will the 130 60-12 rear tire fit with the inner fender? Clearance looks really tight already! That fender is acting as the only divider between the sand thrown from the tire and my air filter. I'd like to keep it if possible. I even made a bracket to hold it with the new exhaust. I tried running with out it and my filter got covered in sand after 2 days! I live at the beach! I was going to get new tires anyways though, my back one is overdue!
I have looked into the Malossi reed cage with carbon petals. Do you think this will give me the results I'm looking for?
Thanks!
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On my silencer there are three 8mm cap nuts facing the exhaust tip. When you remove them the cap, tip, and packing all come out together. I have a Kenda on the rear that is a squeeze, but it fits. I had to use a die grinder to remove a small bung on the bottom left engine case. My tire was getting a rub line after running at top end for a short while, also had to back the brake shoes WAY off to get the angle to re-install the tire set up. I also have the malossi cage, and tried the malossi reeds, I don't think they had a very good flex rate. I had a loopy sort of idle w/ a VERY snappy sound at top end, kinda like a lean mix sound. I bought a set of reeds made for a yamaha yz 80 which are thinner over all (also too long) but much more of an even bend. or flex to them. So I used the malossi as a template to trim the yama. thick ends, leaving the thin end untouched. I used a scribe to mark them, and did the trimming w/ a table sander. After getting the shape I used slow cure epoxy to re-seal the raw edges. Back to the tire a 130x70 would not fit but the shorter 60 does. In the front I have a Kenda 120x70 which is the same height, just a little narrower. If you have a welded silencer, I would drill a series of six, 3/8" holes just before the tip (outlet). It Will improve the scavanging w/out that anoying two stroke dirt bike pop. Some things work, and some don't. I just like trying different stuff. Since the speedo only goes to 60, there is no way to send a pict., but trust me 65mph can be hit. It only will run there for about 200 yards, and will fall off to a steady 55-58. I am assuming the 2 ring piston swells enough to limit time at speed. It could be fixed w/ a 1 ring set up, but I would be buying them by the case. I forgot to mention the cdi i am running was custom programed by Suitai. They used the same ign. curve used by the kymco race team. (back in the day) I believe it is 10%to 3500/15%35-4600/18%46-7500/15%75-13500. They can program it and get it to you in about 2 weeks. It starts off below street specs. but tops out above
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Zombie-
Thanks for the in-depth reply! That gives me quite a few things to consider and work towards! My silencer doesn't have bolts on the outlet end, just 3 where it attaches on the inlet side. I don't really want to drill holes in it. I think I will try the reeds and look into the cdi, tires as well!
Thanks again!
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On my silencer there are three 8mm cap nuts facing the exhaust tip. When you remove them the cap, tip, and packing all come out together. I have a Kenda on the rear that is a squeeze, but it fits. I had to use a die grinder to remove a small bung on the bottom left engine case. My tire was getting a rub line after running at top end for a short while, also had to back the brake shoes WAY off to get the angle to re-install the tire set up. I also have the malossi cage, and tried the malossi reeds, I don't think they had a very good flex rate. I had a loopy sort of idle w/ a VERY snappy sound at top end, kinda like a lean mix sound. I bought a set of reeds made for a yamaha yz 80 which are thinner over all (also too long) but much more of an even bend. or flex to them. So I used the malossi as a template to trim the yama. thick ends, leaving the thin end untouched. I used a scribe to mark them, and did the trimming w/ a table sander. After getting the shape I used slow cure epoxy to re-seal the raw edges. Back to the tire a 130x70 would not fit but the shorter 60 does. In the front I have a Kenda 120x70 which is the same height, just a little narrower. If you have a welded silencer, I would drill a series of six, 3/8" holes just before the tip (outlet). It Will improve the scavanging w/out that anoying two stroke dirt bike pop. Some things work, and some don't. I just like trying different stuff. Since the speedo only goes to 60, there is no way to send a pict., but trust me 65mph can be hit. It only will run there for about 200 yards, and will fall off to a steady 55-58. I am assuming the 2 ring piston swells enough to limit time at speed. It could be fixed w/ a 1 ring set up, but I would be buying them by the case. I forgot to mention the cdi i am running was custom programed by Suitai. They used the same ign. curve used by the kymco race team. (back in the day) I believe it is 10%to 3500/15%35-4600/18%46-7500/15%75-13500. They can program it and get it to you in about 2 weeks. It starts off below street specs. but tops out above
..dang................ :-\
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I haven't really done anything recently to the scoot, just riding it as is. I keep getting this feeling that my CDI is behind my lack of top speed though! Could my CDI be going out slowly? I was getting about 50-52mph a couple weeks ago, now I'm lucky to get 50! It has just been nagging me! I feel like I have put a sh*t ton of money into this thing and haven't really gotten the results I was looking for! I keep hearing of other people getting 60mph out of their 70cc kits, even with just upjetting the stock carb! I have never had the a CDI go out on me before, so I don't really know the symptoms. I was also thinking of getting some type of tachometer to check how fast the motor is actually spinning. This might indicate the CDI gradually decreasing it's max, if they do that. Anyone have any experience with bad CDI's or installing a tach?
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Find the New width of your belt, and compare it to yours. That would be MY guess. The cdi will either die, or run till it gets hot, and shut down. I don't believe they will get corrupted programing. Also may be time for a set of rings. New rings, and cylinder combo's tend to wear in VERY quick.
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What do you mean by new width of the belt? Check for wear? I guess that rules out my cdi slowly going bad. One thing I just remembered is that the base gasket between the crankcase and cylinder over hung to the inside a bit, slightly restricting the intake flow. I'm gonna try and get some time this weekend to pull it off and do some trimming and inspect the rest. Will post back w/ results. Thanks!
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The NEW belt should be approx. 17mm WIDE, as It wears it will get thinner. I mean across the top of the belt. The spec. for the new one should be no more than 2.5mm bigger than what yours is now. Say yours is 13.5 it would be time to replace it. (these numbers are just for example) Find the dimensions for the new one and 2.5mm is the rule. Believe it or not, when I mount intake, exhaust, or cyl. gaskets I found LIPSTICK on the mounting parts will transfer to the gasket, and show where you need to clean things up. Just try not to leave it in your tool box. (the buds tend to laugh) Some may even give you a little wink.
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Ok, I found the oil leaks, posted under oil pump thread. I also pulled the cylinder and head off to inspect. Everything inside looked alright. There is a slight bit of scoring, mostly visually on the exhaust side, I couldn't feel it though! Most of this was from when I first installed the big bore, I had the carb hooked up wrong and didn't get any oil for a little bit! It still had at least 100 psi of compression at that time, I don't have a tester to check right now though. The rings looked alright also. I did trim the gasket around the intake ports while I was in there. Also replaced the spark plug, and "faced" it. I have done this on my car and it seemed to make a slight improvement, so I figured I try it on the scoot! Basically just aligning the opening of the plug with the exhaust port. I just fired it back up and it seems to be running well, possible improvement on throttle response! I'm gonna go for a quick ride, then pull the cvt cover and check the belt width. Will post back.
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You may want to richen your idle jet 1/4-1/2 turn. the exhaust port is where the piston will burn on de-accel. It's ALWAYS better to be on the rich side of the tracks.
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How do you do that? Do you open up the carb and physically turn the jet? I thought you just replace the jets with a different size, or are you talking about the mix screw?
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Hey man Just finshed the other post. Yeah I mean adjust the mix on the rich side maybe 1/2 turn. It will help keep things cooler when you shut down the throttle. Mine will ALMOST stall when I shut down, because when I burnt the dome I saw the same as yours w/ the rings getting hung right in front of the port. I have almost 500 miles since, pulled the cylinder yesterday , and it looks great. I don't think you will need to change heat range in your plug because that will just take away the advantage. If they foul out at idle, ie hot start, just open the throttle to work it out!
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Ok, I think I have the mix screw out at least 3 turns already. I messed with it a bit today and it seemed most responsive where I had it. I'll try adjusting it out a bit more in the morning and see how it goes, 1/2 turn didn't have much effect on it. I have also been idling seemingly high. At least the motor takes about 30 seconds, if at all, to fully drop down to idle. I tried adjusting the idle screw, but was only able to lower it by 1/8 turn. Anymore than that and when the motor fully dropped, which only happens sometimes, it would die. Do you think I may need a larger idle jet?
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That's exactly what it sounds like. The high idle is because it's lean. Using the rpm adjust to compensate. I posted a link yesterday to a delorto tuning site. See if you can find it to determine which type of idle circut you have. it will help to determine which way to to go. Most pipes can be compensated for w/ the idle mix adj., but sometimes you have to change the idle jet also. The Tecnigas is probably the best tuned pipe you can buy for our application. It scavanges the cylinder w/ sound waves that force the exhaust out vs. others that "bottle neck" I have gone two steps up on my idle jet. (using the torch tip cleaners) I have NO idea what it now measures, and if you find you went too far, put a sewing needle in the jet, and heat it until you can melt solder into it. Then you still have an opening to re-work w/ the tip cleaners. I know all this sounds "redneck", and maybe it is. I haven't spent a dime on jets in YEARS! Be CAREFUL to figure if you have an air adjust, or a fuel adjust circut, and it will fall into place. You have entered the FINE TUNING ZONE! HAAA HAAA HA HA H. Thats my old school lol... Of the thread I raise Pit bull SharPei mix dogs. All you forum bro's just became cousins tonight. 6 more BEAUTIFUL pups. I'll TRY to post pics. under the general section tomm.
!!
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That's exactly what it sounds like. The high idle is because it's lean. Using the rpm adjust to compensate. I posted a link yesterday to a delorto tuning site. See if you can find it to determine which type of idle circut you have. it will help to determine which way to to go. Most pipes can be compensated for w/ the idle mix adj., but sometimes you have to change the idle jet also. The Tecnigas is probably the best tuned pipe you can buy for our application. It scavanges the cylinder w/ sound waves that force the exhaust out vs. others that "bottle neck" I have gone two steps up on my idle jet. (using the torch tip cleaners) I have NO idea what it now measures, and if you find you went too far, put a sewing needle in the jet, and heat it until you can melt solder into it. Then you still have an opening to re-work w/ the tip cleaners. I know all this sounds "redneck", and maybe it is. I haven't spent a dime on jets in YEARS! Be CAREFUL to figure if you have an air adjust, or a fuel adjust circut, and it will fall into place. You have entered the FINE TUNING ZONE! HAAA HAAA HA HA H. Thats my old school lol... Of the thread I raise Pit bull SharPei mix dogs. All you forum bro's just became cousins tonight. 6 more BEAUTIFUL pups. I'll TRY to post pics. under the general section tomm.
!!
Congratulations on your new additions!!
...What you guys said about the high idle, and near shut-off after idling to a stop...that sounds a bit like something I have going on with my A50..
..I never changed my slow jet after installing the K&N..
..I now think I should open it up some..
..I'm finding it more and more beneficial to read all these posts, even if they don't pertain to my scoot...
..you guys are learning me so much...(rednecks say "learning")..
;D
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Ah heered yu. Even though these scoots. have different "systems" the bottom line is about the same. You have an engine, and a transmission. Purdy simppull. Iv'e just been using the New replies, and Unread posts. And I try to hit scooter Invasion a few times a week. Those guy's are into SERIOUS tuning. It's a heck of a lot better than talking to the guy at the shop.
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..yeah, I read some of the posts there...one of the questions was "How do you clean the glazing off of your variator?"
...One guy replied "I dunno..never had one to last that long"...lmao...
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Zombie- Congrats on the pups! I backed out my mix screw 1/4 turn this morning. I'm pretty sure I have a fuel adjust system, the further out the screw goes, the more fuel it mixes in. That was my understanding from the guy at moped hospital. It does seem to be idling better, at least in the short distance to work and back! I think in the near future I need to get a larger idle jet and also a skinnier needle. I still have the "sweet" spot at just past 1/4 throttle where I think it leans out and revs up. This fine tuning is a never ending process!!! I'll probably get it right just about the time my motor wears out, then on to the next round! :) I also have been looking at scooter invasion a bit; those guys really are into some SERIOUS tuning!! I wish, but lack the funds for that kind of performance! Something to strive for I guess. I did find a good step by step on re-packing the Technigas silencer on there. Hey Zombie, I guess mine does come apart!
I never got back on my belt/variator inspection. The belt was about 17.3mm wide. Factory spec. is replace if below 16.5mm, so I should be good for a little while longer. The variator looks fine, just cleaned it and re-installed.
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I think I may have found the source of my "restriction". I just found another forum with a build thread by someone using the same kit I used. He found that the intake manifold was restricting the flow, which makes sense. The opening in the manifold is smaller than the outlet on the new carb. I realized this when I installed it and asked the guy at moped hospital about it. He said it didn't matter. From what the guy on the forum said, moped hospital told him that they make a larger manifold, but it kinda expensive. Anyone on here have any experience with an aftermarket intake manifold? I have seen some with a riser block which houses larger reeds, I don't know if they will fit for my application. I'm gonna look into it, I would like to hear any personal experiences though!
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When I bought my Delorto carb I HAD to use their manifold. The carb slides onto the intake tube. and uses a compression clamp to hold it together. Since the engine mount is the same as stock I was able to ues a Malossi reed cage, and I posted before yx/80 reeds. If you still have the stock intake w/ a reducer mounted to adapt your carb. it's as if you still had the stock carb." You can only get so much air through a straw " No DOUBT I WOULD LOOK FOR THE CORRECT MANIFOLD... Theres your 3-5 mph. maybe 1.5-2.5 hp. Not to knock anyone, I called Moped Hosp. for prices on a few occasions, and was offered different parts at CRAZY prices (higher than elsewhere) They have an impressive web page, but so do alot of other re-salers. Anyway I'm sure malossi usa will have an intake for you. Measure the O.D. on your carb, and give them a call. 10% off orders this month... Also the pipe will give you another increase. I used FAB MAT (heavy glass cloth) wraped four loose turns, and it was still pretty quite,. Now I just run no packing, and can be heard across town. If you need to use my existing account to get the discount from Malossi, email me, and I will hook it up for you!
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That manifold is just something I guess I forgot about, now I'm like. . . Duh! I sent an email to the malossi store about the manifold, and also to moped hospital. I want to see what both have to offer. Does your manifold just bolt right on to the stock reed cage? I might like to try one of those double sided ones. I think I'm gonna leave the pipe alone for the time being, but it's nice to know I can take it apart!
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I was surprised, both malossi and moped hospital emailed be back this morning! A+ for customer service on both! Unfortunately, Malossi does not have a manifold for my application! Moped Hospital does have one for $45, not too bad!
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All the parts are direct oem type fit. The malossi reeds seemed to starve the engine at top rpm,s so you may want to consider a different brand or reed. their cage fit like oem. Just stay away from the 2 stage reed setups. there is too much room for error w/ them. You get this done and I'm sure you will be smiling... Good thing there are no flying insects this time of year.
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I have a manifold coming from Moped Hospital, it will hopefully be here Monday! I have been looking at the different Malossi reeds. Is there a benefit from using the Malossi reed block, or could I just replace the petals in my oem block? When you mentioned 2-stage reeds, are those the blocks that are double sided? I looks like you can put different thickness petals on each side. Do you know what thickness your YX/80 reeds are?
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The reeds that came w/ the malossi cage were .30, and .35mm. They were carbon fibre, but neither set worked too well. I tried to find Boysen reeds for the Malossi, and all I found was ZILCH. A buddy in N.Y. sent me a set of boysen w/ the cage from his yz 80. They have one tapered side that MUST face up. (away from the cage) I'm not sure how thick they are, But my guess is 1/2 that of the malossi. I posted before how to trim them to fit, and reseal the raw edge. I found a link on reeds that may help you decide which way to go... The difference is small between the different set-ups, but like I like to point EVERY little bit adds up. I chose Boysen because since the mid '70s I've been using them in Moto-x and have always replaced them before they broke. (never broke one) The set I have now has been in for about 2 1/2 years (1'600k ?). I have to admitt my set up is getting worn, w/ the crappy tires I have I haven't been topping it out, until today coming home from work. Hit just over 60mph. on the speedo which on mine runs a little high. Time for rollers, springs, and a belt. If you leave the stock cage You will have to find a three fingered reed from boysen to adapt. The Malossi is two fingered. A simple set of measurements will get the set you need. Almost forgot 2 stage reeds are accuatly two seperate reeds. one heavy one w/ a hole in it covered w/ a thinner one. The idea is the thhin one will open at idle, and the thick one opens at top end. The whole set-up is a compromise. Not enough at either end of the spectrum.Bottom line is, I would hold off replacing the set-up until you can get the Malossi cage. The proof is in the pudding... so they say! You will get more snap at low end and, a few more rpms on the top. More rpm=more FUN!!! http://snowmobile.off-road.com/snowmobile/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=253738 (http://snowmobile.off-road.com/snowmobile/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=253738)
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Wow! There's a lot more than I expected to choosing the correct ones! I think for now I may try and find some Malossi reeds that fit my stock cage and see how that works out. I seem to recall my stock cage has 3 petals, and the Malossi has 2, however Malossi does make 3 petal reeds. I just don't want to drop the $70 on the Malossi cage right now. I see how a 2 petal setup would flow better though. When my manifold gets here I will pull out the stock reeds and take some measurements. I guess I'll have to run it with the stock reeds till I figure something else out. Thanks for the info zombie!
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No Prob. At all Bro! Reeds will run you around 40 bucks, so I would wait till you can get the cage too. The cage comes w/ 2 reed set-ups. It WILL improve what you have,BUTTTTT the few extra $'s on a BETTER set will impress you. It's ALMOST the same as doing the cdi de-restrict. The proper reed set up IS impressive. I was just thinking you may need a puppy to "scoot" w/ you... I believe Greyhound will transport a BEAUTIFUL Pitpei. If you run the stock cage, and buy Aftermarket reeds on a 70cc, the diff. WONT be worth the $';s ... I just thought of a name for the pup MASS IRUDIUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I guess I'll just run it with the new manifold till I get some more cash. There are so many things I want to buy! I would really like a tachometer, and my headlight just burned out on my way home tonight! I think I found a HID headlight conversion! As for the puppy, thanks, but I have two already and that's PLENTY! Not a bad name though! ;D
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Let me know what you find for the headlite. I have a 35w halogen that isn't much better than a flashlight. The pup will be there around 7:30 am... (just kidding)
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No Prob. At all Bro! Reeds will run you around 40 bucks, so I would wait till you can get the cage too. The cage comes w/ 2 reed set-ups. It WILL improve what you have,BUTTTTT the few extra $'s on a BETTER set will impress you. It's ALMOST the same as doing the cdi de-restrict. The proper reed set up IS impressive. I was just thinking you may need a puppy to "scoot" w/ you... I believe Greyhound will transport a BEAUTIFUL Pitpei. If you run the stock cage, and buy Aftermarket reeds on a 70cc, the diff. WONT be worth the $';s ... I just thought of a name for the pup MASS IRUDIUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..there it is again....
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Zombie- You're right about the headlight not being much better than a flashlight! Especially now I can run 50+ mph! Here's a link to the headlight I was looking at: http://www.justformotorsports.com/products.php?product=12V-18W-HID-Xenon-Headlight-Conversion-Kit#. (http://www.justformotorsports.com/products.php?product=12V-18W-HID-Xenon-Headlight-Conversion-Kit#.) I sent them an email to see if the base was the same BA20D as the stock bulb, from the picture it looks right. Either way it looks like it will require a bit of modification, not as much as others I've seen though!
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..have either of you guys ever seen one of these in use??
..does it "project" outward, or is it still at the mercy of the reflector for beam dispersion...
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I have not actually seen one. It appears to just pop into the stock bulb fixture. It won't be as good as running it in a projector, but it's still a freakin bright bulb! Gotta put out more light than the stock setup! Oh yeah, my dash does have lights! Just checked while I had the dash off messing with the headlight. They are both burned out, I never even knew they were there! Thanks Zombie! ;D
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..I saw that it said 18watt...is that just the lamp?
..how much does the ballast draw, i wonder...
..they have a 35 watt setup also..did you see that?
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Wow 80 bucks for a lite! Slinger has a good point I wonder if the TOTAL draw is 18w or if the bulb is rated at 18. The zx stator is rated at 35 w for the head lite I actually figured it at 32.5 so even the factory bulb is not getting feed enough juice. I believe that is why they blow soo often. I guess if they last forever it is a bargin. I'll try to find out more along w/ what you guys find, someone will figure if it is worth the money!
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...what about the heat...my experience is that metal halide lamps burn very hot...hmmm...
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I believe the entire system only draws 18w. I have any aftermarket setup on my car, and they only run off 35w apiece, and they are bright as sh*t! The heat is something that could pose a potential problem. I think I remember reading something about not using them in a plastic enclosure when I was shopping for the ones for my car. I also recall there being a minimum clearance to the sides of the housing, shouldn't be an issue on the ZX, there is plenty of room inside there.
On another note; I just finished customizing a headlight to use in the mean time. Those stock bulbs are somewhat hard to come by locally, so I made one fit! I used a Sylvania 893 12.8V 37.5W bulb I believe used for fog lights. The base of the bulb was 24mm the stock connector is 20mm, so I just dremeled off 2mm on each side of the bulb base and it fits in nice and snug! Then I just ran the wires directly to the bulb. It is way brighter than the stock bulb! I'm hoping heat is not an issue with this as well! They also have that bulb available in the Silverstar as well, they cost 3X as much though and I didn't know if was going to work yet so I got the standard. Anyway, big long link to the bulb I used below.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/parts/partsProduct.jsp?skuDescription=Sylvania+/+Bulb+-+Fog+Light&categoryDisplayName=Electrical+%26+Lighting&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=1058_0_0_&productId=1058&sortType=&parentId=57-0&filterByKeyWord=893&isSearchByPartNumber=true&navValue=15701489&categoryNValue=15799999&fromWhere=&itemId=1489-0&displayName=Bulb+-+Fog+Light&store=448&searchText=893&brandName=Sylvania (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/parts/partsProduct.jsp?skuDescription=Sylvania+/+Bulb+-+Fog+Light&categoryDisplayName=Electrical+%26+Lighting&fromString=search&itemIdentifier=1058_0_0_&productId=1058&sortType=&parentId=57-0&filterByKeyWord=893&isSearchByPartNumber=true&navValue=15701489&categoryNValue=15799999&fromWhere=&itemId=1489-0&displayName=Bulb+-+Fog+Light&store=448&searchText=893&brandName=Sylvania)
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Thats the same as the H-3 w/ a different base...I believe. It's what I have now. I found I had to turn the bulb to get a good alignment on the reflector. But I still wish I had something better.
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It is similar to an H3, appears bigger though. I tried rigging an H3 in there a while back and it melted the base a little! This seems like it will work much better! I also got some dash lights, I remember having them hooked up when I first got the scoot, they didn't illuminate very well. I got some blue ones, cause they were cheaper. I'll let you know how it goes, just waiting for dark!
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..i too have rigged up a light similar to that one...think it's a h9 @ 35 watt...it has a 90 degree angled connector base...way brighter than the stock lamp, but it is a single element...I only used the high beam most of the time..I liked the way it spread better than low...But I did adjust it reflector to where i don't blind the ppl in front of me..
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I just test ran my new lights, and holy crap! They're awesome! I never had dash lights, they're sweet! The headlight is way brighter! I probably need to adjust the aim on it a bit, but I can actually see where I'm going! :o
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I got my new intake manifold from Moped Hospital today. I wasn't expecting it, but it also came with a 4 petal reed block! :o It is going to take some slight modification to install it. I have to enlarge the mounting holes on the inlet by about 2-3 mm on each side because the holes in the carb are closer together, shouldn't be a big deal though. I also have to figure out installing a fitting for my vacuum line. It's not that big of a deal, but I can't find anyone locally that has a 1/8" barbed hose nipple! I'm waiting for the rain to stop for a bit so I can go out and look for one.
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AWESOME set-up!!! Who's is that, I mean Manuf. I think I will be NEEDING THAT! You may just have to get into jetting again w/ all that extra airflow. WHEN DOES IT ENDDDDDDDDDDD...
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It is made by Motorio part #17100-KC-0000. I'm pretty happy with it! ;D I got the hole elongated, but finding a small fitting for the vacuum has been difficult! Steve @ Moped Hospital said; I can either run it with a syringe on the vacuum line, essentially locking the petcock open, or install a barbed fitting. He also said to try and put the fitting through the flange. I'm not sure exactly why, other that it is thicker there. The problem is the flange is only 10mm wide, so I would need a very small fitting! I may have to put the fitting right behind the flange, then grind it smooth on the inside. I'm still trying to come up with something that will work well. I'm hoping I don't have to get into re-jetting! At least I have all of the main jets! It is never ending!!!
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The closer to the flange the better the vacuum will be. How about a 1/8th od tube JB Welded into place. A barb fitting will be HUGE on the threaded end. In fact the old school carb you have, has the fitting you need. I know I saw it!!! I will bet dollars to dough nuts you will get 4-5mph top end, and get there quicker... I have to find a way to N.C.. You gots it goin onnnnn. CONGRATTTTTSSSSS!!!!! Oh yeah; Greyhound has a two for one puppy transport deal (something about the holidays) so I will send your's ,and slingers together...
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Once again Zombie, Thanks for the ideas! That fitting from the carb worked perfect! ;D As for the puppy, really, I'm good! Send both right on through to Slinger! ;)
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Once again Zombie, Thanks for the ideas! That fitting from the carb worked perfect! ;D As for the puppy, really, I'm good! Send both right on through to Slinger! ;)
..woah...wait...what???..when did I get in this puppy thing...I gotta go back and read some more...dang...
..take a day off and you get puppies....
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Mass Iridium too all!
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I got the manifold installed. However, I have issues! I think I either have an air leak and/or I need to up-jet the idle jet. It revs up real high just sitting! Also, I'm gonna have to figure out something for the air filter, not enough clearance anymore. It will work if I can find one with an angle or an adapter, I might make one! ;)
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I had an air leak, which seems to be fixed. I had to back the mix screw all the way out, and adjust the idle down all the way. I definitely need to up-jet the idle, but I think it should be ok till I can get a jet. I haven't ridden it yet, due to pouring rain all day! It sure sounds like a beast though! I'm pretty sure that made a huge difference! I also need to figure out something for my air filter, I can force it on around the outside of the rear shock, but it won't stay.
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Do you still have the stock air box? I had the same problem, and found the snorkel from the stock box fixed it! It has just enough offset to clear the shock. It even fit into the air filter like they were made for each other. Ps. Indian shellac is real good around the intake gaskets. Old school...
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Funny you should mention, I actually used the hose off the stock air box! I dremeled off the the flange on the box side and used Gorilla Glue to attach it to my K&N! Almost like it was meant to be! I don't really want to use adhesive to attach the gasket, because I will have to remove the manifold to take off the carb. I can no longer get to the inside bolt with it mounted. I might use some type of sealer on the base gasket though, that's where my leak was. Seems good now though. What's indian shellac? Like the stuff you use on furniture?
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No. It's an old school gasket sealer. Comes in a small bottle w/ a brush like the ones in pvc cement. About 2.99 a bottle at most auto parts. The BEST stuff to use on all gaskets is OMC Perfect Seal. It will stay soft for ever. Kinda like peanut butter. You can get that at marine supply places. Did you use the snorkel as a fix? Or is that not the answer. Its funny we seem to get the same ideas on alot of stuff! When I posted to slinger about a hot air riser that was the part I had in mind because of the nipple cast into it.
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I'll keep that sealer in mind. Would the OMC Perfect Seal allow me to take the manifold apart without tearing the gasket? If so that might be the way to go! Yes, I did use the snorkel off the stock air box. I'm very happy with the result, should work perfectly! That nipple would be great as a heat riser inlet! Have you used those welding tip cleaners to open up the idle jet? I'm not sure they are small enough.
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I got a set of micro drill bits 0.25mm-1.25mm, $5 @ Harbor Freight! Hopefully one of them is the size I need to open up the idle jet. I definitely need to basically start over on my carb tuning. It's not running all that great. I actually lost about 4-5mph top speed with the current adjustments, I hoping it can be corrected!
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The micro drills MUST be used w/ a HAND tool like an exacto knife holder. If you put them in a cordless they will SNAP! Solder works to close any jets that went too far. OMC will stay soft, but I ALWAYS use a razor to get it apart. If you can "glue" it to one surface all the better, and the tip cleaners are small enough to go BELOW the stock jet sizes. The set I have is in a blue anodized aluminum "case". There are 16 sizes. They are actually wire files. It is a little hard to get one started in a jet, but they do work. I think they cost 20. bucks. They will last a lifetime though. Cheaper than assorted jets you will never use. Your pict shaka is the exact set up I am using. I remember slinger posting the K&N Filt. was 40. bucks.. The one I bought was 9.99. The flange you cut off, fit right into the Filt. I have. I can only say YOU GUYS RROOCCKK!! I can only hope to get my a** to N.C., and HIT THE SCENE!!!!!!!
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The set I got has 20 bits that can be used by hand, they have a large shank w/ the tiny tips. They are pretty neat! I'm wondering about the size I need. How are the numbers on the jets related to the hole size? I compared my bit sizes to some of my main jets and they don't quite make sense. ??? Example; my 60 jet fits the 0.6mm fit loosely, but the 0.75mm almost fits, it's probably about 0.7mm but I don't have that size. My 100 jet doesn't fit the 1.0mm bit. The 0.9mm bit fits the 100 jet, and almost in the 95, not at all in the 90. I guess my concern is that I won't have the right size bit. My set doesn't have every size in increments of 0.05mm like the jets go. All I can really do is pull out the jet and go one size bigger according to what bit size I have and hope it works! I'm really not looking forward to having to re-tune the carb, especially now that it is going to be much more difficult to remove it! When will it end?!!
Zombie- I also looked at a set of the torch tip cleaners, but I don't think it was as nice as the one you have . It didn't have that many different sizes in it. As for the filter, the end that went into the stock box had a double flange. I just ground down the flange closest to the end to allow a longer piece to glue. It also fit right inside my K&N, I just wanted a bit more surface area to bond to. I think my filter was $25 with shipping from K&N online.
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Yeah Bro, I gave up on REAL jet sizes. Between metric, and imperial, and Manuf. custom sizes. As I like to say "FORGET ABOUT IT". Or FOGET BOW EEAT. That's where an electric stove helps. If I go too far on a jet I put it on the stove until it is hot enough to melt solder ALL the way through. You also need to use FLUX. Ruby fluid is the BEST I have found. It is an acid compound that will burn off most impurities. And YEAH, I did the same w/ the flange end. Cut it off to allow it to seat against the carb. If we can find two PRO riders to race scoot against scoot, I'll go for it. At 50 years old I would have a hard time competing w/ you. Especially now. You gots your sh*t together. I want the intake you have. JUST TO SEE! Hey Ps. WHEN DOES IT END.....................................................Oh yeah another ps. DON'T use a power drill on the jets. Do it by hand. Kinda like tapping a thread.
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I found some more info on jet sizing. Kehin jets go by the millimeter size ie. 75 = 0.75mm, 105 = 1.05mm. Then some other carbs like Mikuni use a size rating based on flow ie. 75 = 75 ml/min, 105 = 105 ml/min. I'm guessing that my Arreche jets are one of the ones that is sized by flow and not diameter. That makes it difficult! I'll just have to use the next biggest size bit, and hope it works!
Zombie- Why do you want my intake, if we did exactly the same thing? I'm pretty your scoot would whoop up on mine! Mines only going 47mph right now, and not a smooth throttle either! I had it pretty good, till I decided I wanted to go faster! ;D I'm hoping not to have to attempt the soldering trick. If I do, be sure I'll be hitting you up with some more questions!
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F*ck!!! I broke the bit off in the jet!!!! >:( I wasn't even forcing it or anything, the thing is just sooo small, it just snapped off!! I can't get it out either! I'm gonna have to have some jets overnighted so I can get my scoot running ASAP, it's my only transportation!
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...dang... :-\
..dude that sucks...
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You may be able to heat the jet to get it to expand just enough to twist the tip out. Maybe a cut off sewing needle will help to push it back! Also try looking around on Craigs list for a "back up" scoot. I bought two non running Honda nc/50's w/ an extra engine, for 150. bucks. You may find something if you keep at it!
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I tried about everything to get it out, it broke off flush! Tried to push it out with a needle, no luck! I thought about heating it up, but just gave up! I realized even if I did get it out, I'd have to solder it and I have no way to go get solder. I had some pilots overnighted from Provoscooter. I should be back in business by Sunday for sure.
I've done the Craigslist back up scoot idea. I just need to get that one put back together! I had to straighten the crown on the fork and I haven't had a chance to put it back on. I'm sure it needs a bit more work, but I think I've taken care of the major problems.
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I forgot, Don't You also have a Vento? What's going on w/ that?
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I had the Vento running and discovered the front fork was badly bent on the first test ride! I put it on the back burner while saving up for a new crown and steer-tube assembly,and got back into tweaking the ZX. Then I came up with an idea for straightening the crown. I found some steel pipe that clamped into the crown in place of the stanchions, put the whole thing in the fork jig at work, and torqued the sh*t out of them till the crown was straight! I've been sick all week, plus the torrential rain, so I haven't gotten the fork back on the bike yet! Hopefully that is all I need to get it going except for some minor stuff. I need an air filter, front panel and headlight. I will probably have to mess with the carb a bit, possible upjet, depending on what I do for an air filter. I'm not sure if I'm gonna keep it or sell it, I'm trying to put as little money into it as possible. Honestly, it will probably turn into my next big project though! There is so much potential with that platform as a base!
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What would be a good pilot jet to try first? I really don't want to take apart all manifold and carb again, if it's avoidable! I had a 20 in there, should I try the 25, or go straight to 30, I am also getting a 35. I'm thinking of going with the 30 first and hope that's the magic jet, just wanted another opinion.
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It's REALLY hard to say shaka. I have a Delorto, and have NO idea how they "rate" their jets. I have a 44 pilot. That I opened even further. I do run VERY rich at idle to 1/4 throttle, almost to the point of fouling but I do it to keep the piston cool on de-accell. My GUESS would be the 35. You may have to keep the throttle open a tiny bit when slowing down, but I think better than too lean. I found at ACE hardware they have 10-15 different air filters for lawn mowers. I use a briggs&stratton filter that pushes right over the carb on my nc/50. (thinking about the vento) it costs 1.95 and I change it ALL the time. Also I haven't done any jetting on the honda. Just moved the needle up 1 spot. If you want to post a Pict of the front panel you need I may be able to Repair/ make one for you. I have some extra materials from a '56 Chriss Craft Sedan I am restoring, and I'm sure the effort will be appreciated. No charge, Just pay to ship what you need. Ps. Pay close attention to the needle setting on the zx. I had to fight w/ mine to get the right combo of jet vs position. You know it is all a balancing act!!! You may also want to consider removing your packing to allow the extra intake to exit. I got about 2-3 mph right there. I posted before though, My PEEP'S know where I am!
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Thanks for the input Zombie! I suppose starting big and going smaller if needed isn't a bad idea. I'm just waiting for the mail man now!
Thanks for the tip on the air filter, I'm not sure if there is an ACE anywhere close by, but I'll look into it. I was thinking about just ordering another K&N, I like the sound of $1.95 though! As for the front panel, thanks for the offer, but I don't even have a broke one. I found a 150 Sunl scoot that uses the same mounting points. It uses a cool looking dual headlight that should plug right in, and it's relatively cheap! I was also thinking about removing the packing in the exhaust, it's just sooo loud already! I may have to to get it to run right though!
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You're sorta at the point of NO return. It's either roll w/ the flow, or fight every time you start it. Get it FLOW... Everything has to work together,or it is a big waste. A little weedwacker doing 60 IS a sight to behold. I have seen a pict. of a technigas mod I was thinking about. You cut off the down nipple on the end of the silencer, and drill 3/8" holes between the mounting studs. The packing can stay in place to reduce the high pitched resonance. Thats why I was using a few layers of fab matt instead of the angel hair the fact used. ALWAYS trying to get another reliable mph. Truth be told I think I am done w/ this engine. It is still reliable, and moves quicker than anything I have seen in it's class. I would still like to find a spare to SUPER MOD. Just wouldn't be an every day ride. That's why N.C. sounds like the place for me. There is a MUCH better community for scoot'in than there is here in N.W. Fla. In fact everything but the weather seems better on the other sieeeeeddd.
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Definitely well past the point of no return! I think once I get it running right, I'm done with this one too! I doubt that will ever end though! I do need to keep at least one reliable scoot around for my basic transportation. I kinda wanted to Super MOD the Vento, but I think I'm going to keep it just about stock, possibly sell it, and wait till I can get a LC Super 9 to play with! I've heard about the Technigas mod, I don't really like the idea of drilling holes in it. I may end up re-packing it with something different though. As for the weather in NC, it's gotta be better than living in a humid swamp! Hard to say though, I've never been to Florida myself.
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It's kinda sorta like being in a fat mans arm pit all day. Can you see the zx/50 headlite on the Ebay add? that's the color mine was...
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HaHa! Doesn't sound very pleasant to me! Yeah, i see it, your burgundy/red color looks soooo much better! I still have not received my jets! I like how overnight shipping turns into 3 day!!! It has been at my local post office since 3:17PM Saturday! It was supposed to have Sunday delivery also according to the USPS website. I called them this afternoon and they said it is an additional $12 for Sunday delivery! WTF!!! Still haven't figured out how/if I'm getting to work tomorrow!
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Man That sh*t BITES. They charge, and charge, and charge! You still get squat...30 bucks to get 9 dollar jets,and you still can't roll
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It's kinda sorta like being in a fat mans arm pit all day. Can you see the zx/50 headlite on the Ebay add? that's the color mine was...
..I lived on Fort Walton beach for a year or so when I was 11...It was niiiice...What wasn't was the year that I lived in central georgia...talking about a fat man's armpit...we had pet names for the mosquitos...killed small animals to offer them a blood sacrifice just to keep them away...
..no, really....
;D
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Yeah ,the only thing that really bites here is this area has been so secluded for so long, It's sort'a like living in the 1840's. Just ain't got much uuu's fer any o dat fancy New York lernin. The two high points of Franklin county are true! Highest per capita drug arrests in the state of Florida, and lowest unemployment in the state of Florida. Imagine 4,500 drug addicts that have NEVER had a job! This is MY pain. I was also wondering why there are no squirrels around here! Ps. there are 12'500 people in Franklin
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Dang, must be bad if the squirrels don't even want to live there! I can assure you I have plenty here! I sat on the back porch all summer and shot the ones in my vegetable garden!!! Little furry rat bastards!!!
I got a ride to the post office first thing this morning, I actually got there an hour early, can't even get the time right over the phone!!! Anyways, I picked up my jets and rode my bike home. I tried the 30 first, and it was too big. I pulled the whole thing back apart and put the 25 in there, seems to work well! I have a nice responsive bottom end, with adjust ability with the mix screw. The mid-range seems good. Still no top-end though! It accelerates nice and quick up to about 40mph, then tops out at about 45! I just don't get it!! I was hitting 50mph pretty easily before I did the manifold! Frustrating!!!!!
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..well, at least you're up and running again..that's a good thing!!
..don't know much about your 2-strokes tho...
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W/ the larger intake I would assume a larger main, and drop the needle down 1-2 to keep the mid range. perhaps a plug chop at top end? If you can't get it back there your reeds may be too stiff.Like slinger said, at least your running. Getting the main jet, and the right needle poss. is where I had the toughest time of all. I did the best I could get by over jetting to be sure, went back to the good size, then started on the reeds. they took an idle circut adjust, and 1 spot up on the needle. It just don't end!!!
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Yes- very happy to be back running! Thanks for the tips Zombie. I haven't messed with the needle yet. I think from the short ride on it today that I may need to raise it and put in a smaller main jet. Only plug chops will tell!!! I don't even know where to begin with the reeds, it might help if I know what reeds where in there. I may try and talk to Steve at Moped Hospital about it. I should get a chance to mess with it a bit tomorrow.
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I got to put a little mileage on the scoot today. It seemed like it was running rich, but wasn't too bad. Still only hitting about 46mph though! I managed to do one plug chop, which looked ok. This was with a 25 pilot, 115 main, and needle all the way down. I raised the needle on notch, and my mid-range was gone! Totally bogging, until I opened it all the way up. Then I switched out the main jet for a 110, and it seems to run much better! The current setup is 25 pilot, 110 main, needle in the middle. I'm still only getting about 46mph, but the scoot seems to be running well, sounds like I got the rpm's up a little at WOT. I'm going to run it like this tomorrow and see how it feels.
I think I may have narrowed down some of my loss of top speed to the reed valve, as this is the only thing that has really changed. I did notice that the reed block that came with my manifold doesn't have Viton coated reed seats. I'm wondering if they aren't sealing closed completely, but I don't know what a symptom of that is. Also, I don't know how to tell if the reeds are too stiff, or too soft. I have been looking at the Malossi reed cages. The VL15 looks to be about the right size, and it's completely Viton coated. I will probably contact them to get the dimensions. As for reed thickness, I have read that thinner is better. Basically, go as thin and flexible as possible, without sacrificing durability.
I have also been thinking about the CDI. I'm wondering if going with on that has a different timing curve for high rpm's would help get the rpm's higher? I'm running the stock CDI de-restricted, which I'm assuming runs the same timing from where it is restricted (35 mph) up to as high as my motor will rev.
Any input is appreciated!
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Good to here you are back on LEVEL ground. Ok, my thoughts are: W/ the extra air the larger manifold CAN move I do believe it has to be a reed problem. To test if they seal you can put the piston at BDC. you will have to make an adapter that fits the spark plug threads, and has a Schrader (tire) valve in it. The Carb. has to come off though. you can use a small compressor to pressurize the block to 6 psi. That is the safe limit of the crank seals. Even a tire pump for a bike will work. the crank seals will blow under pressure because they are made to work w/ a vacuum, so don't pay too much attention to them. A little soapy water in the reeds will tell if they are sealing or not. An OLD SCHOOL trick is to use a razor blade to apply 3m 5200 (marine adhesive) to the cage. It is sorta like silicone only permanent. The reason I believe yours are too stiff is the idle jet is SSOOO small, and your reduced top end. The malossi reeds gave me the same symptoms you have now. A poor sounding low to mid and a lean top. Look at the Boysen reeds. They have been making performance reeds since somewhere around '70-72. Another point is if you torque the cage too tight it can deform. W/ the leak you had I think it may be another point to think about (as if you don't have enough on your plate)! Just thought if you do the first pressure check deal you may be able to HEAR the air escaping through the carb, especially if you can get some soap(dawn) down there. Might save you taking the carb off. And almost finally: Contact Suitai!!! They programed my cdi to the full blown cdi the factory used in '04. It was only 49-51 bucks to my door. That did give me alot more pep from low-mid to top. The idle suffered because the initial timing is 2% less than the "road" scoot. I assume this is done to keep things cool in a "race" scoot vs an every day warranty scoot. W/ the higher advance in the top end, you certainly need the extra fuel you can get now. There is a post in one of the other threads about a tuned Jonway self destructing after 1000 miles. I bought my scoot w/ 8000km , and just looked tonite. 41274. The SAME crank/con rod/bearings/seals/rear gearset/housings. Kymco ROCKS! No doubt. Ps. 2 1/2 years.
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I'm leaning towards the reeds being a problem as well. I will try and come up with some type of adapter for the spark plug hole. I don't quite understand how the process works though. Essentially, I'm pressurizing the crankcase against the reeds? The reeds should seal and hold back 6 psi? But the crank shaft seals will not hold pressure, only vacuum, so how will I test the reeds? Where does the soapy water come in? Why do I have to take the carb off to do that test? I'm confused, did I totally mis-understand? I've seen the video from Aeromyst i believe, on the vacuum test, I get that. I just don't get the pressure test.
I'm pretty sure I took care of the initial air leak around the manifold. I sealed all the joints with some marine silicone stuff. I couldn't find the OMC Perfect Seal, but I think the stuff I used is same type of sealer. I don't think the idle jet is really that small. I think my Arreche jets are numbered differently than your Delorto. Seems like Arreche may number by flow and Delorto by diameter. The jet I used (25) is about 0.45mm. Everything I've read says the stock 20 is almost always adequate.
I researched the Boyesen a little and couldn't find anything that looked like it would work. I didn't look all that hard yet though. The other problem is I don't know exactly what size I'm looking for. I'm also not all that comfortable with cutting my own. It seems like they have to be so exact! I'd like to find some that fit right into my reed block. I may just end up getting an entirely new block because I want one that has Viton reed seats. Seems like it would seal much better! I like the looks of the Malossi VL15, and I wouldn't have to use gaskets on either side of it from the looks. That would eliminate the some of the hassle of pulling the manifold off to remove the carb. The gaskets on the current setup don't fit all that well. Actually, it's more the flanges on the current reed block aren't wide enough on the sides to make real good contact with the manifold flange.
I'm going to definitely look into getting a new reed block, if nothing else, for a better fit and hopefully function. Once I get that figured out I'll look into getting a custom programmed CDI. I've also been wondering if the extra head gasket I used may have changed the squish band enough to lower my output. I'm running 2 paper type base gaskets and 2 aluminum head gaskets on my cylinder to alleviate my piston/head clearance issue. This may have every so slightly changed my port timing as well. I've been thinking about making a thin aluminum spacer to go below the cylinder so I can remove the extra head gasket. I don't really want to run 3 paper type base gaskets, but I could sandwich an aluminum one between 2 possibly. Just more ideas, I swear I always thinking of different scenarios! Like you said Zombie, get it running well with the current setup before moving on to the next phase! Sounds like some good advice!
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I was just pondering this pressure testing procedure. I would have to either plug the exhaust port, or I could pressurize through the exhaust port and leave the spark plug in.
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After riding to work and back (short distance) I definitely need some more carb tuning! I was bogging pretty bad all through the low-mid range! I'm considering taking out the new reed block, just putting a gasket between the two manifold parts, and putting the stock reed block back on the bottom. The opening for the stock reed block is just so much smaller, I fear that will cause issues also.
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Hey shaka, Sorry for the delay. Gonna be soon ex-wife came in to tell me what a heartless turd I am while I was trying to answer you. I got a little distracted! You are right on the preas. test Just bolcff what you need to. The soap will help to give you a gurgle to ID the reeds if that's where the prob. is. You may be able to leave the cab. on I just think it will be easier to see first hand if the cage is twisted or if your reeds have a taper on them. The seals will blow by but if your reeds are leaking you will see that first. The squish zone shouldn't be a factor, and I think it is a great idea to have a spacer cut to fit under the jug to get the clearance. You could poss. do it all through the mail by sending a gasket to a shop that does water-jet cutting. I don't believe it would cost more than 30.00 bucks. The deal w/ the jet size makes sense (flow vs mm) so you should be alright there. Idle size anyway. That set up w/ the block/ manifold not mating well bothers me too. Maybe another call to Moped Hospital is in order. The parts you have gotten there seem to all have fitment issues. Everything can be made to work you just have to hit it one section at a time. Sucks it is your main transport! I tend to put projects up until the light bulb switches back on an the right idea hits. Maybe try to get it close to dialed in and start at the beginning again w/ getting the cyl. set up right. That way you have a chance to let the dust settle, and figure the next step. Having the extra pressure of tear down/ fix /reassemble /hope it works / get to work / think about how to fix it all day / eat, and do it all again would KILL me! Get one part perfect, and it will start to come together easier. I sure feel for you Bro. Hey a PUPPY will help you to feel better! (just messin w/ you)
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Zombie- No worries on the delayed reply! I understand completely, really sucky situation! I won't really get a chance to do any more work till Sunday anyways; just kinda brainstorming in the meantime. I think I understand the pressure test. I put a little soap down inside the manifold so I can hear it bubbling if there is a leak, right? Will the soap cause any problems when I start the motor back up and it gets sucked through? I would imagine as long as it is a small amount it should just pass right through. Just thinking about the reeds, I don't really think there is a good seal there. It is just a fiberglass/composite material that has slight ridges from the weave, having to make a seal against a piece of hard plastic. I don't know how well of a seal it has to make, but seems like it would definitely leak somewhat. A Viton coated seat just makes so much more sense! Do you know the symptoms of leaky reeds? Would that cause my loss of top end? I sent an email to malossiusaonline inquiring the dimensions of the VL15 reed block. Hopefully, they can get back to me with some useful information. If that block fits that may well be my next step. That thing is pricey though, $89! I think a call to Steve at Moped Hospital is in order as well!
I like your idea about having an aluminum spacer cut with a water jet! I may try to make one on my own first, a dremel is a great tool! But, I will definitely look into it! Glad to get another opinion on the squish zone as well, that has been in the back of my mind all along! It's not the block-manifold space that is off. It's the bottom half of the manifold-reed block-top half of manifold joint. The side flanges on the reed block are not very wide! It is cut in on the sides from where the bolt holes are kinda like an hour glass, but with a flat middle. This is part of the reason why I think an entirely new reed block may work better.
I would love to be able to put this project aside for awhile, I'm pretty burned out on it! I just want to get it running right with the current setup so I can move on to the Vento. Once I get that going I will have back up transportation and can focus back on the ZX! The Vento is going to take some money I fear though, something I'm tired of putting into scoots right now! They are almost like boats, a big hole in water you throw money into! I guess it's a little more justifiable though, I don't use a boat to get me to work! :)
p.s.- Still good on the puppy! ;)
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If the reeds are just slightly leaking you will have poor performance mostly in the lower rmp ranges due to less force inside the crankcase. It's the down stroke of the piston that "pushes" the fuel up through the ports. The higher will also suffer but not as much due to the amount of force vs the amount of time. Do I understand your cage is plastic? Even old style Bakeolite was phased out in the late '70's. That will NEVER work in a performance set-up. Also fiberglass reeds are not worth the trouble to install them. If that is what M.H. sent you I would certainly send them back w/ a big question mark on the package! I was trying to find the invoice from my cage to give you the part #, and will keep looking. I think it was only 49. bucks w/ two sets of reeds. They were graphite, but too stiff, and the only other offer they had was a stiffer set than those. You can also guy blank reeds that are no tougher to trim than a soda can. It's nothing to worry about. The trick to making them last is to epoxy the trimmed edges, and holes.
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I dropped my need back down today (clip on the top notch). It seems to be running much better, still no top end though! I think I got it up to about 48mph tops down a slight hill with a tail wind! It seems to be running pretty well, pulls nicely, but just quits pulling at about 45mph. It is basically behaving the same as it was before the intake manifold, but topping out 5mph quicker! As for the reed cage, I don't think it is really plastic. But it is some type of brown plastic composite. I'm not sure what the reeds are, they are some type of white fiberglass looking composite material, and of course no Viton reed seats! I don't even know what to do anymore?! I'm thinking about sending Moped Hospital an email. Hopefully, if nothing else to get more information on what reeds are in there. At least that will give me a starting point of where to go from. I really don't even care about trying to return the reeds, as I wasn't expecting them in the first place. I still haven't heard back from malossiusaonline. Will post back with changes.
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Update-
I've been trading emails with Steve from Moped Hospital. He seems fairly willing to offer ideas/suggestions! First ideas were the CDI and the rollers being too heavy. I'm running 9g Dr. Pulley sliders, which I know is too heavy, it's just what I had after my 6.5g rollers flat spotted. He recommended between 7-7.5g for my setup, which is what I was thinking also. I don't know if the rollers being less than ideal weight would cause such a drastic loss of performance? It seemed that the heavier rollers cut my acceleration a little, but made up for it on the top end. The only thing I can come up with is that the rpms are not reving high enough to make the top end power. Back to the CDI, it is stock derestricted via the green wire splice. I had questioned it a few weeks ago and removed the splice to check the difference. It is definitely reving higher with the derestriction, so I put the splice back and figured the CDI was good. I guess I'll wait and see what Steve has to say. I still haven't heard anything back from Malossiusaonline about the reed block dimensions!
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I heard back from Steve. He seems to think that the heavy rollers are the cause of my problems, I'm skeptical! I'm going to put the slightly worn 6.5g rollers in tomorrow to check. It seems that the rollers may be part of the problem, but I think the reeds are not helping either. I have noticed a 5mph decrease in top speed after only replacing the intake manifold and reed block! He also mentioned checking to see if the belt is climbing all the way up the variator. I noticed yesterday when I had the cvt cover off that the face has a wear line about the thickness of the belt from the outside edge. I figured this indicates that the belt is riding all the way up. It seems the wear line would be from the inner (narrow) side of the belt as it is being squeezed from the bottom. Am I wrong in this thought? When the belt is all the way up should it come up out of the groove slightly?
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Hey shaka, Crashed my computer by over tweaking again! So re-format, re-install, and 1 day of finding all the programs later... I have almost 2 year old 5.5gr Malossi rollers in mine, and still get 60 mph. Lighter will help but you still have to find the missing 5mph! Maybe pick up some Generic reeds in different thickness, and try a few. I do believe your trouble is in the reeds more than the cage.Yours may just be too stiff. Thinner will also help them to seat better because the flex goes both ways! You can run the scoot on a milk crate w/ the cvt cover off to see where the belt is really going. I use a socket on an extension to hold the Jack shaft for the starter in place. You don't need parts flying out at full throttle... You can manually pull the ramp up on th multivar to see if the full throw matches the running throw. That may give you a little more peace of mind. Im pretty sure the grove would be from the bottom of the belt. You wont get that w/ a good aftermarket set-up because of the stronger steel used. Keep smileing bro! It will come together!
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Zombie, that sucks about the computer! I just upgraded to SUPER fast internet today, it's sweet! I've still been trading emails with Steve. He seems to be stuck on the fact that ideally I need 7g - 7.5g rollers which I agree with, but I'm skeptical of that being my main problem! I put my slightly worn 6.1g - 6.3g rollers in today to test. It wasn't even ridable with those! I immediately went home and swapped them back out. The engine revved super high with no results! This leads me to believe that the CDI is ok though! It slowed my acceleration tremendously, and I topped out at 40 - 42 mph although it sounded like I was flying! Also the belt appears to be climbing all the way up the varaitor. I measured and the wear line is 8mm from the outer edge. It's not really worn, just polished a different color from the belt. It is a Malossi multivar with less than 2000kms.
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Sorry bout that I get lost! I thought you still had the fact varaitor. I agree there is another issue though. I ordered my goodies from malossi today, and should get them by fri. I hope. I,m also thinking about cutting the cvt case in a sorta fancy flame type deal right behind the var. I've seen some other cut jobs , and it looks kinda cool. Those 6.? rollers may be the wrong Diameter! that makes a HUGE difference.
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The rollers are 16mm x 13mm. I'm going to order some dr. pulley sliders. I'm thinking the 7.5g would be better than 7g. Any opinions on the weight?
Zombie- I've seen some real cool cvt cut jobs! Doesn't really seem like a good idea on a rain or shine daily driver though!
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The part I can' get my head around is I have 5.5gr, and tighter clutch springs! I have super high launch rpm's, and get to 50mph quicker than most anything else on the road.I do drop off a little from 50-60 but w/ 12 wheels I'm ok w/ that. There is one thought that occurred to me from your post to the British girl; Almost every part I ordered from my "dealer" was wrong! I asked them to get Kymco USA on the phone (because they blamed it all on them) Kevin (Kymco) said "My scoot. must have been a Mexican or Canadian import" So now I am wondering if we have different gear sets? You said yours is 10.5 or so, and when I get my stuff I will check to see what mine is. I will bet you a pair of tickets to the next MASS IRIDIUM show my gears are much lower than yours! That would theoretically explain the difference in our cvt set-up. As for the rain or shine bit.I am ALWAYS messing w/ something so keeping the scoot clean is not a big deal. It keeps me from "super tuning" a 10 year old computer. Hey a PS! those FUC**NG kenda tires I bought! The rear is now splitting right down the center. started as an out of round, and has worked into a full blown piece of ... I have an old Chen shin (or whatever) for a spare but for 50 bucks I thought it would last a little minute before self destructing!!! I put them on right before my first post "Died out on the road" and you rember how long it took before I was running again. Not to make this a CHAT ROOM. It's good Info. Don't buy Kenda!
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I have been thinking about the final drive gearing since that post as well. That's part of the reason I went to go check mine. Zombie, if you could check yours and let me know that would be great! I just put the scoot on the center stand and pulled off the cvt cover. Only took 10 min total. Mine was about 10.5 turn of the clutch to 1 turn of the wheel. I have pretty good acceleration, it pulls really hard and is faster than most anything else till I top out! It's weird it just quits pulling and won't even go much faster downhill! After putting in the 6g rollers today I know that it can rev much higher too! Speaking of tires, my oem cheng shins are totally gone at this point! I have to really watch it in the corners! I will stay away from Kenda's when I get some money together for some new rubber. I'm thinking of going with some Pirelli's, everything I have heard has been good.
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Hey shaka, I didn't get my parts from Malossi yet but I tore down the cvt to get ready. The rear gear set is I thought 8.5:1. I tried to find the manual listing for it , and had no luck. I tried to get an answer from Kymco USA on the phone w/ no luck. So I called the guy I bought the scoot from. He used to work for Solarno Cycle in St Augustine. He bought the scoot from the original owner who bought the scoot form them 2 years earlier. The original owner bought 2 of them in '04. He had them both de-restricted, and had straight cut 8.3:1 gear sets put in both. You can't get anywhere in St. Aug. w/ out getting on A1A, and traffic is 50-60 mph. Billy is going to try to find the supplier for the gear set for me, and will email the info asap. That explained a lot of different things for me. 1, why I had to tune my cvt so high to get a decent hole shot, and 2, the high top end. I've got the blue clutch springs, blue torque spring, and 5.5g rollers. Also ordered my rear tire today, Avon Viper 130/70-12. I spent 4-5 hrs reading reviews, and found the Avon will outlast the Pirelli w/ all else being equal. Dunlop also makes a great tire for about 98. bucks. the Avon is 48. to my door from Bike Bandit. They had the best price, although J.C. Wittney would match it. In the mean time I'm back to the NC/50. I basicly stick to the shoulder on this one. 28mph is about top speed. Hard to believe 2 50cc scoots can be sooo different. Even the modded nc I am still working on will most likely do no better than 40.
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Zombie- that explains a lot! I have been wondering about the final drive ratio for a little while. That's about the only thing I could figure would make such a difference. I've had my scoot running pretty well and it just seemed like something besides the motor. I'm sure I still have some kinks to work out, but that gives me a little more peace of mind towards the engine setup! If you can find out exactly what final reduction setup you have please let me know. I have been unable to find much info on it as well. I believe Malossi makes a gear set that will fit, it is a 15/44 primary gear set. I will have to do a ton more research into what is needed though! I will get some 7.5g Dr. Pulley sliders per Steve's recommendation and go from there. I'm going to have to get my Vento up and ridable before I can get into some serious work on the ZX! Let me know how that tire works out also. I'm curious about the fit of the 130. I want to retain my inner fender because keeps dirt from being thrown right at my air filter. Thanks again!
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Yeah No Doubt Bro! The 130 kenda needed a "tab" on the engine case trimmed of (the one on the left side the fender well is attached to) I just drilled a 1/4" hole in the fender, and zip tied it to the frame behind the cylinder. Billy said he was pretty sure it is a Pollini gear set because they were a Pollini dealer at that time. He is calling Mark at the shop to see if they still have a record of the install to get me the part #'s. I tried to look it up at Pollini usa and they don't list the super fever anymore. I'll prob. now more by Mon. nite. Same here w/ the "spare" scoot. Had to do a little tuning up to get it reliable again. The soon t be ex. was tearing it up for a few months. " I didn't know where to put oil in sssooo I just didn't" I did start to look around at gear sets to get an idea, and they all seem to be around 100. bucks. I'll count the teeth tomorrow morn an post back!
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Zombie, you're the man! I just checked out the Polini site, wish I saw that sooner! They do an intake manifold similar to the one I got, but it looks better. It already has all the problems I had to fix/modify done! Oh well! They don't list the ZX50, but to my knowledge the Cobra, DJY, & K12 are compatible for the most part. Did you take apart the the tranny cover to get to the gears? You don't have to go that far, just for me to count the teeth! It would be helpful though! Thanks!
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What's shaki'n shaka. Just got off the phone w/ Billy (previous owner) He is the guy that set the scoot up for the Orig. owner. The gear set they used is a Polinni straight cut. Daywot on Ebay is the supplier for this part. There is NO polinni part # for the zx, but the Dio, Sa, and Sr 50's are all the same. They had no part #'s from the original install, so I think looking for the set you want from Polinni, and shopping Ebay for the price would be the ticket. I was typing 8.5:1 what I meant was 6.5:1 Which billy tells me is actually 6.3:1. I didn't think about pulling the cover when I said I would count the teeth! I don't have a gasket for that. Sorry! The Biggest thing to look for in gears (I am told) is straight cut is ALWAYS better. It eliminates wasted sideways energy. He also told me for someone changing from stock to straight you will notice a WHINE in the gear set. This is normal. I couldn't tell you if mine whines over the other obnoxious sounds from my scoot. He also recommends 15w40 for gear oil. I've been using 75/90 napa synth> so I guess I will change that out. Finally UPS is Here. Later!
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Nothing much shakin, just been workin! Thanks for the info! I checked out ebay and found what I need. They are 16T X 32T primary gears, they call it a 6.923:1 ratio, those are the ones I found for the Kymco DJY as well. The nice thing is they don't have to be pressed in either, might not be as big of a job as I was expecting! Bad news is they are $157 w/ shipping! Just thinking about gears. Any ideas why the stock gears are diagonal cut when straight cut is supposed to be better? What's the advantage of a diagonal cut gear?
Here's the link to the gears: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/POLINI-PRIMARY-DRIVE-GEARS-DIO-SA50-SR50-SK50-GEARS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem518d3694efQQitemZ350261515503QQptZRaceQ5fCarQ5fParts (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/POLINI-PRIMARY-DRIVE-GEARS-DIO-SA50-SR50-SK50-GEARS_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem518d3694efQQitemZ350261515503QQptZRaceQ5fCarQ5fParts)
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There is something wrong with my cookies or something! I can't find replies unless I go back to the topic. Sorry for the delay. The angle cut is intended to produce a "pre-load" on one side of the case. The thought is to control gear wear with controlled friction. The draw back is wasted energy in the sideways pushing on the gears. Straight cut will put all the energy to the output shaft. The advantage of a quality set will be in the steel used, so wear is reduced below that of an oem set. I just looked at the link, and it has the same info Billy gave me about the gear oil so I would assume it is the same setup. This is where you will need the 5.5gr rollers, and the heaviest clutch springs to keep your bottom end. I put all my cvt stuff in tues. night, WOW. I couldn't believe the difference. It's back to spinning the rear wheel on hard dirt. I haven't run top end yet. I was waiting for the tire, which I installed last nite. OFF TO THE RACES!!!
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I understand the side loading of the gear, but not exactly why it would need to be. I found the Polini gear set online for $112, but I also found a compatible Malossi set with the same number of teeth as the Polini for $95 from malossiusaonline.com. I may end up doing the Malossi. The only thing I'm wondering about is whether the Malossi set needs to be pressed, they say the Polini doesn't. I'm gonna have to do a bit more research and possible make some calls. Glad to hear your back in tip top shape Zombie. We might have to have a ZX50 showdown soon!
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Give Malossi a call. They have answered every question I have had for them! What do you say we race toward each others state. Meet somewhere around the middle. If train A leaves chicago at 4:15 pm,... Where do they bury the survivors? I found a cool trick for "pressing" gears. You can put the shaft in the freezer overnight, and put the gear in your oven for 2 hours at 275-300 degrees. The gear will fall onto the shaft! I have been doing this on stern drives (marine gear sets) for 20 years. 60mph watch out...
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Who have you called, malossionlineusa? If we race towards each other, I might want the slower scoot! Make you ride further! ;D I've seen that trick for installing crank bearings, never thought to use it for the gears. The only problem is I'd have to remove the entire engine and put it in the oven! I might be able to slowly/carefully heat it with a torch if need be. Hopefully, pressing the gears is not an issue! I did use that neat little cooling trick to remove a seized seat post from a bicycle frame today at work! I used CO2 cartridges to cool the seat post and was able to get it out!
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NAW man, just the shaft. All the gears will fall out of the case when you open it. It,s the opposite of crank bearings. Nothing in the final drive gear set is pressed in the case (except bearings) And YES man malossiusaonline. Just ask for Tech support. Even though zx/super isn't listed on the web site for allot of parts it is still in their data base/catalogs. Just make sure to get a new case gasket, and seals. Maybe another 20 bucks. I found MOST of the seals you will ever use are made by Federal Mougul so they can be matched at any good auto parts supply. Here's one for global warming. I used to use freon (r-12) for freezing prop shafts (2"&above) to remove couplers, and props. I posted before my REAL name is Barok, and I live in D.C. if anyone needs to talk to me about their vanishing waterfront property. Ps I was gonna ride the nc/50!
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You won't hear any complaints from me, no waterfront property! ;) Looking at the diagrams, it appears that all I will need are two oil seals and a gasket. I may end up pulling it apart before I order any parts so I know exactly what I will need! I'm working on the project Vento as transportation to and from work as I may be without the zx for a little bit while the gears are being replaced. I made some good progress yesterday. I finally got an air box for it so I can begin working on getting the carb tuned correctly! PS. No fair on the NC/50 it's supposed to be a showdown! I wonder if my PO will give me permission to leave the state for this?! ;D
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Just get on that scoot, and RUN!!! I raced the electric cop car here in town, and beat them hands down. They have a modern looking golf cart sort of thing they use to patrol the main part of town. I can just see the chase scene on World News Tonight! Good to here you are getting the Vento running! I have loads of assorted scooter parts if you need something odd just let me know.
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The bad news is i'm currently sitting on the side of the road waiting for a ride! Pretty sure i blew the motor! I was just riding along and the engine sound changed and i rolled to a stop and it died! It seems i have no compression! Only time will tell! On a positive note the vento should be able to get me to work!
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I figured out the problem. The motor is fine! ;D The expansion plug I used to seal off the oil pump hole popped out! Now I gotta figure out how to make sure it doesn't happen again!
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It may be the rubber the plug is made of is NOT fuel proof. If it feels softer than it did new, that particular plug may not work! Glad to here it was only that though. Maybe disassemble your old pump to get only the part you need to plug the hole? Here's another Home made set up that may help also. I have rigged up a small home type drill press to use as a lathe before. You can then get a piece of aluminum stock, or even hard plastic for that matter, and turn it to the size you need. It is easy enough to rig cutting tools to cut "o" ring slots, and all that. You could drill & tap for a 3/8" bolt in one end to use in the chuck of the drill, and if your stock is close enough to finished size you can probably use 60-80 grit emory cloth, and oil to get the fit. Thought of the day is "It's all easy if you look at the base components" On another note I'm down to four pups w/ one going to my daughter. With yours, and slingers that leaves one... Where's my bus schedule?
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I'm thinking it's probably not fuel proof. It was softer than when it was new. It was an engine freeze plug, so I figured it may work. I guess those only come into contact with coolant though. I bent the original mounting bracket to keep pressure on the plug. This will hopefully keep it from popping back out until I can figure out something more permanent. The way that oil pump mounts is sooo STUPID!!! I like the drill press/lathe tip! I will keep that in mind, I'm hoping for one for x-mas!
Ps. I'm still good on the pup situation!
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It's all good Bro! If Santa comes to my house the dogs will get him, and I'll check to see if there is anything you can use!
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Hopefully santa carries around scooter parts! I talked to Dio Burnout over on scooter invasion. He sent me the link to the oil pump plug he used on his Dio over in Japan. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www.kn926.com/ss132.html. (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http://www.kn926.com/ss132.html.) I sent them an email to see about ordering one. It looks like a nice piece of CNC goodness! It's 1900 yen or about $20 according to DB.
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...i just aint having any luck with those google translate frickin pages...dang...
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I had the same problem until I updated Java. Did a new install, and update manually in the control panel. That way It's not always running in the background. You can also try Opera Browser. Safari is faster (by milliseconds) but I use opera for my Default.