KymcoForum.com
General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: MN_Scoot on March 14, 2014, 03:00:52 PM
-
I have poured through forums here and elsewhere about dielectric grease and I have never seen so much conflicting information on a topic.
My problem is that I consistently lose my battery connection while riding (even after contact cleaner and steel brushing each part of the connection). Often, I can stomp the floor above the battery compartment and get my connection temporarily back while I'm riding.
Anyway, to improve this situation permanently, some people swear by smearing dielectric grease on the terminal and connector and that tightening will squeeze out the non-conductive grease and keep out moisture and corrosion. Others swear that doing this compromises the connection even further.
Does anyone have authoritative advice on how, if at all, I should use dielectric grease for my battery? Any other advice for this connection problem?
-
Sounds to me like your battery bolts are vibrating loose, MN-scoot. The dielectric grease is a good idea (couldn't hoit) as is that red spray on corrosion inhibitor sold at auto parts stores. I would try some Loctite Blue thread locker on the bolts.
Karl
-
authoritative advice
Will you also reject "authoritative" opposing views expressed on this forum? Why can't you make your own determination?
-
Will you also reject "authoritative" opposing views expressed on this forum? Why can't you make your own determination?
ha, you're really going to troll me over this?
I quite simply asked for someone to chime in if they had a definitive answer on a question I have seen completely conflicting info on in many forums.
And I guess if everyone made their own determinations every time they had a question, there would be no use for a knowledge base forum.
-
ha, you're really going to troll me over this?
I quite simply asked for someone to chime in if they had a definitive answer on a question I have seen completely conflicting info on in many forums.
And I guess if everyone made their own determinations every time they had a question, there would be no use for a knowledge base forum.
There are no dumb questions on an enthusiast's forum. To share and learn are why we are here.
The negative stuff belongs over on youtube.
As one veteran member said a long time ago :
"Pay no mind to tortoise, he's slow."
Stig
-
My problem is that I consistently lose my battery connection while riding (even after contact cleaner and steel brushing each part of the connection).
Does anyone have authoritative advice on how, if at all, I should use dielectric grease for my battery? Any other advice for this connection problem?
Any type of general automotive grease or dielectric grease is fine. You only need a tiny bit to coat the surface. This stops corrosion. I have used it for years on cars/motorcycles/scooter/tractors etc. You did not mention if your connection is loose at the battery terminal. If it is you can use the grease everywhere except the threads of the bolt (assuming it is a nut and bolt type connection common on motorcycles) - if that is the case then clean the threads first then apply loctite blue to the threads of the nut/bolt and grease everywhere else.
-
I keep a small tub of petroleum jelly for keeping the terminals clear of corrosion. When the terminals are tight enough, the jelly or dielectric grease will be squeezed out of the points of contact.
An intermittent connection over bumps doesn't sound like a corrosion issue though. Do double-check the connections like mrbios suggests. If the screws are looking rather stripped out from a screwdriver, then use a 1/4" drive socket or box wrench that fits instead.
-
You did not mention if your connection is loose at the battery terminal.
It is always completely tight when I check.
I usually pull over, unscrew and rescrew the connections and this temporarily fixes it. Then, brush and contact clean when I get home yet the problem still recurs within a few weeks.
I do plan on using dielectric grease when I hook the battery back up. Just didn't know if I should put it between the connections so they squeeze it out or just coat the outside after the connection. Checking a lot of different forums, there is a lot of disagreement over whether this is smart or terrible.
Thanks for the reply.
-
It is always completely tight when I check.
I usually pull over, unscrew and rescrew the connections and this temporarily fixes it. Then, brush and contact clean when I get home yet the problem still recurs within a few weeks.
I do plan on using dielectric grease when I hook the battery back up. Just didn't know if I should put it between the connections so they squeeze it out or just coat the outside after the connection. Checking a lot of different forums, there is a lot of disagreement over whether this is smart or terrible.
Thanks for the reply.
That shop in San Diego that has all those VESPA repair videos on youtube has a head mechanic who puts that stuff on, in, around and over the battery contacts when working on those pricey Vespas.
He sure seems to think it helps make a good current flow.
Stig
-
the reason they use dielectric grease is it non conductive, so the best way to use it is connect very thing , then cover with grease,. told by a electronic tec .,
-
the reason they use dielectric grease is it non conductive, so the best way to use it is connect very thing , then cover with grease,. told by a electronic tec .,
Ah, so it is the corrosive-preventing properties that make this stuff work so well on terminals and bulb fittings !
Old guy still learning here....
-
thats right Stig 81 years old and still so much to learn
-
No problem with that anything that prevents oxidation is a good thing, and I like the idea of using blue locktite on the battery bolts. Keep riding!
-
No problem with that anything that prevents oxidation is a good thing, and I like the idea of using blue locktite on the battery bolts. Keep riding!
A few extras for the topic...
If a connection has corrosion - clean the metal parts with a wire-brush and / or sandpaper to bare metal ... then apply grease.
Grease yes but NEVER use any kind of oil as that will break the connection. If oil has been applied remove it with a solvent like brake / carb cleaner, kerosene, etc and scrub with an old tooth brush blow with compress air to dry or use a tissue paper and when dry and clean apply a little grease.
-
Hmmm..something is very wrong here... I have never used anything on my battery terminals... I never even clean them until I replace for a new one... How come I NEVER had problems?... Maybe something's wrong with your battery... or something...
-
location location !!! when the tempature go,s from 20 below to 5 above zero C. the battery will vent a little all winter long, or when I visit my family I go from 100 feet above sea level, to 6000 feet through the mountains that makes the batterys vent again,. so I clean the battery every year,.
-
It is always completely tight when I check.
Lets not get side tracked on dielectric grease; clearly the root cause of the problem has nothing to do with the battery terminals.
I suspect the real problem is either the negative or positive cable is loose at the other end (not where it connects to the battery). removing and tightening the terminals just moves the cables and contact is restored temporarily.
I had a problem where my Positive cable was loose where it is bolted down to starter relay? I saw signs of arcing - I sanded the connections tightened it back up and have not had a problem in 3K miles.
Whether you use grease or not on the battery terminals and even if it gets below zero no way should this problem be happening.
-
I picked up a tube of this stuff. Read the back panel.
Says to "get good metal-to-metal contact between the 2 parts" then smear on this grease.
So, since I have nothing growing on my battery cables - I put the tube back on the shelf and bought a donut, instead.
Stig
-
MrBios, and Vivo are both 100% correct.
Terminals do not loosen w/ temp., and vibration is not the cause either. Lead is soft, and makes a "lock washer" type join.
The issue is as MrBios suggests somewhere else or the OP has no clue how to use hand tools (which I doubt is true).
To the original question... Dielectric grease is an INSULATOR. It is used in HI voltage applications to insulate /prevent arcing, and assist in heat transfer between components.
Using it on a battery terminal is like making toast in a blender. It does more harm than good. I wont list the reasons it is bad practice because their are too many. The one that does apply is... It will prevent the fastener from maintaining proper torque, and create a situation where the bolt/nut will never "lock" while the silicone base of the grease allows the join to slip, and loosen.
There are dozens of WAX based anti corrosion treatments that are applied after the join is made but the truth is the USCG (coast guard) has found that electrical fires originating at the battery terminals (loose terminals create an over-current from the charging system, and thus heat) were primarily caused by these terminal "treatments" that contain flammable compounds, and ignite. So they have passed this along to the insurance companies that will no longer pay these types of claims.
The only thing you should do is clean the terminals with a STAINLESS STEEL wire brush, and properly tighten the fasteners.
For everyone that has no issues I suggest you return your batteries, and scooters because as Vivo pointed out... There is something wrong with them.
-
To the original question... Dielectric grease is an INSULATOR. ...
In the many vehicles I have owned I realize that I always use a tiny amount of regular grease on car or tractor battery terminals to stop corrosion but I don't think I have ever used it on a motorcycle battery because I don't seem to get any corrosion.
Currently, in my Kymco I have a sealed battery (something I love because no acid seems to leak out anywhere) and there is no corrosion and I have never used any grease on the terminals.
Conductive grease or copper antiseize could be used? But I agree grease should not be applied to the bolt threads on a motorcycle battery because it could loosen up.
-
A tip... See if you can find an ALUMINUM coin and place this on top of your battery using a double sided tape maybe... what will happen is that battery fumes/acid will be diverted to the coin and corrode the coin and not your terminals...
-
A tip... See if you can find an ALUMINUM coin and place this on top of your battery using a double sided tape maybe... what will happen is that battery fumes/acid will be diverted to the coin and corrode the coin and not your terminals...
Hey now!!
Don't start confusing us with your scientific witchcraft!!!! ;D
-
If it's science it's not witchcraft. If it's witchcraft it's not science.
Since it came from Vivo it's bullsh**! ;D ;D ;D
I couldn't help it. I wish it was anyone but Vivo :-*
-
If it's science it's not witchcraft. If it's witchcraft it's not science.
Since it came from Vivo it's bullsh**! ;D ;D ;D
I couldn't help it. I wish it was anyone but Vivo :-*
I've been doing that ever since... We have this one centavo coin made of aluminum and I just place a couple of this on top of my car's battery preferably nearest the caps (non-maintenance free) and after a while they just corrode... sparing my terminals with the ugly white stuff... Without the coins, the terminals corrode.... I don't know... It just happens... I would appreciate it if someone here can explain why... Does the aluminum attract the acid faster than other metals? Or maybe the coins are the first bare metals nearest the source, so they corrode first.... Or it's not the coin, any piece of bare metal will do... One thing I know for sure... It's not witchcraft... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
In lots of applications they use a Sacrificial Anode. It is usually Zinc or some other lesser metal.
Hot water heaters all have them, Well Pumps, Boats, and Marine engines, wrought iron fences, building pilings, ect
The way it works is the lessor metal actually does attract the harmful ions that are normally attracted to the noble metal.
Electrolysis is the action involved. Basically anytime there is moisture, and two dissimilar metals a battery is created. The lessor metal is ALWAYS the one that gives up molecules till it is depleted, and then the process moves on to the noble metal till that is gone.
I never heard of anyone doing this w/ a battery, and aluminum but it is perfectly logical.
-
In lots of applications they use a Sacrificial Anode. It is usually Zinc or some other lesser metal.
Hot water heaters all have them, Well Pumps, Boats, and Marine engines, wrought iron fences, building pilings, ect
The way it works is the lessor metal actually does attract the harmful ions that are normally attracted to the noble metal.
Electrolysis is the action involved. Basically anytime there is moisture, and two dissimilar metals a battery is created. The lessor metal is ALWAYS the one that gives up molecules till it is depleted, and then the process moves on to the noble metal till that is gone.
I never heard of anyone doing this w/ a battery, and aluminum but it is perfectly logical.
See? It's not witchcraft.... ;D
I just saw that from a friend who saw that from his friend... I just followed the idea and it did the job... no more white stuff on the terminals... when the coin was fully corroded, I just replaced them with clean ones... usually they last for a week...
best one cent I've ever spent...
(http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mzNz_j5VGwjABy9fB_Q-WRw.jpg)
-
Hey Z, I did a bit of research on sacrificial anode and found this....
By Ray & Tom Magliozzi
Car Talk
Dear Tom and Ray:
I may be dreaming, hallucinating or even suffering from Dementia. I seem to remember something from my childhood that other people my age do not. When I was but a tadpole, I seem to remember my dad checking the water level in the car battery. The top of the battery was covered with a thick, tarlike substance, into which he would push copper pennies next to each battery terminal. The reasoning behind this was to draw the potential corrosion away from the terminal and toward the penny. Did I dream this, or did people used to do this? Please tell me if I’m demented or not. — Art
RAY: We don’t have enough information to answer your last question, Art. And the fact that you’re writing to us for advice definitely is a strike against you. But you’re not dreaming about the pennies and the batteries.
TOM: It’s based on the theory of sacrificial anodes, in which you “sacrifice†a more reactive metal — copper, in the case of pre-1983 pennies — to protect a second, less reactive metal — the lead battery terminal and connector.
RAY: And in the old days, when batteries were covered with tar on top, you could warm up a penny with a match or a cigarette lighter, and then slide it into the tar half an inch away from the battery terminal. The penny always would corrode first.
TOM: Nowadays, most batteries are sealed in plastic, so the acid — which is what causes the corrosion — rarely escapes the inside of the battery. That makes a sacrificial anode far less necessary. And besides, these days, we all have to save our pennies.
-
Those two guys are complete idiots but in this case I gotta give them props.
Cool find!