KymcoForum.com
General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: eakins on August 24, 2016, 05:50:17 PM
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posted in the Yager section but thought I open this up to all Kymco gurus.
Backstory:
Bought a 2010 Yager 200i with 900 miles on a few weeks ago. Clean and no rust.
Shop stated previous owner traded it because it was having battery problems. Added a Battery Tender lead to charge every night or would not start in the am.
When I picked up shop installed a new traditional Interstate battery.
This battery lasted about 6 days then would not start so I started using my Battery Tender Jr.
Replaced it with a Scorpion YT12a-bs (175cca)
After a week same starting problem again so back to using Tender.
I cleaned (wire brush) & di-electric greased frame ground plus connections at the starting relay/solenoid assy. All connection were tight from factory.
When the motor runs it’s strong with no issues or misses. Have run several tanks of gas in it. Changed oil, new spark plug, clean air filter.
With a fresh charged battery it starts fast and idles well. Starts every time however with my Lithium battery jumper box.
Findings:
-battery holds 12.5v when sitting for days (disconnected)
-scooter charges at 13.9-14v consistently at idle & speed
-on a 10amp scale, the negative wire & negative battery post draws 0.01 key off
-on a 10amp scale, the negative wire & negative battery post draws 5.4 amps key on. Normal?
-continuity is 0 on the negative battery side to all frame points and engine
-continuity is 0 from positive battery to starter relay battery side
-no continuity across the starter relay when off
-continuity is 0 from the starter side of the relay to where the positive attaches to the starter
PLUS is 0 to all ground points on frame/engine. No voltage just continuity. Is this normal to have continuity across the positive to the negative thru the starter?
Observation:
ok here are things i tested in this order.
battery fully charged overnight.
cold engine
key off - .01 amp draw between neg battery & ground. no parasitic drain.
key on - 5.40 amp draw. normal range?
key off - 12.8v
key on - holds steady at 11.9v for well over a minute (no drop)
engine starts like a champ & runs well.
13.9v while running
turn engine off for 1 minute
key off - 12.5v
key on - voltage drops quickly to bellow 11 in less than 30 sec
will not start now.
recharged battery fully to test voltage drop when starting at 2 points
pos & neg battery terminal: +/- 10.6v
pos & neg at starter terminal: +/- 8.6v
so i'm seeing a approx 2v difference down at the starter
Conclusion:
so I get 1 good start, then something happens?
heading now to parts store to test load ability of this battery.
normally I would say this is a bad battery, but it's the 3rd in a row so something is causing batteries to fail?
Where should I go here to determine what is causing this battery/heavy drain issue?
Buying yet another battery does not should like the solution.
I love this scooter and don’t want to trade it in on something else, but it’s far from no surprises right now.
thanks :D
Bill
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Dropping two volts through the cable to the starter is not good. Terminals got the best treatment but the lug-to-wire may be bad on either + or - cable or both. and you may have a battery issue as well. How'd the battery test go?
Karl
PS: I had a Yager before the DT300i and had to be coerced to change!
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-on a 10amp scale, the negative wire & negative battery post draws 5.4 amps key on.
Is this a continuous current draw or only present while the fuel pump runs for a few seconds when you turn the ignition key to on position?
If this current draw is continuous with the ignition key on, then that's what causes your battery to collapse after a short while.
That's over 60W of power drain. Which also has to create considerable amount of heat somewhere.
I am trying to help. Please keep posting your findings.
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Is this a continuous current draw or only present while the fuel pump runs for a few seconds when you turn the ignition key to on position?
If this current draw is continuous with the ignition key on, then that's what causes your battery to collapse after a short while.
That's over 60W of power drain. Which also has to create considerable amount of heat somewhere.
I am trying to help. Please keep posting your findings.
well the lights (front traditional, rear led) come on too when the key is turned on so isn't that the draw?
the low bean is 55w alone. the rear led bulb is not much.
unlike other machines where the light comes on after it starts, this one has lights with the key on.
i can disconnect the headlamp and see what the draw is.
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took battery to auto shop
well the battery is fully charged, but only 90% and did test bad.
taking the previous battery back to parts store and see how that test.
found out the previous owner replaced the factory battery too before he traded (got sick of this problem?) it in.
so in 1000 miles this engine has gone thru 4 batteries. 2 in the last 2 months while I owned it.
i can't be believe that it was 4 bad batteries in a row.
something is killing these batteries.
where next?
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think I found a/the problem.
started digging into the alternator charging coil, ignition pulse sensor & reg/rec
-alternator charging coil (yellow wires from motor) all in spec (.05 ohm & no ground continuity) - good
-Ignition pulse sensor (from motor) 101.5 ohm (spec 106 ohm) - close enough?
-reg/rec yellow wires (connects to charging coil yellow) no ohms (spec is .04-.06) - problem!
so the reg/rec seems bad (no ohms on the yellow wires) but I was still getting 14v charging to the battery? does this seem right? the 14v was steady no matter the rpm from idle to high rpm. thought this was odd as I was expecting it to be lower at idle.
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so if my RR is bad anyone use these guys vs oem?
http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-12666-regulator-rectifier-for-kymco-venox-250-xciting-300500.aspx (http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-12666-regulator-rectifier-for-kymco-venox-250-xciting-300500.aspx)
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/kymco-yager-200i-electric-c-2_17636-1.html?newcPathco=21 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/kymco-yager-200i-electric-c-2_17636-1.html?newcPathco=21)
or all these just Chinese
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=kymco+yager+200i+regulator%2Frectifier&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xkymco+yager+200i+regulator+rectifier.TRS0&_nkw=kymco+yager+200i+regulator+rectifier&_sacat=0 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=kymco+yager+200i+regulator%2Frectifier&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xkymco+yager+200i+regulator+rectifier.TRS0&_nkw=kymco+yager+200i+regulator+rectifier&_sacat=0)
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or just buy oem?
31600 31600-LDG7-900 REG REC COMP $54.54
http://www.kymcopartsmonster.com/pages/OemParts?aribrand=KYM#/Kymco_USA/SJ40AB_YAGER_GT_200i_(2009)/F19_-_Wire_Harness/04%7c%7e50%7c%7e0005/04%7c%7e50%7c%7e0057 (http://www.kymcopartsmonster.com/pages/OemParts?aribrand=KYM#/Kymco_USA/SJ40AB_YAGER_GT_200i_(2009)/F19_-_Wire_Harness/04%7c%7e50%7c%7e0005/04%7c%7e50%7c%7e0057)
or this one which says quality Taiwainese
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOLTAGE-REGULATOR-for-KYMCO-People-250-Superdink-300-Venox-250-Xciting-250-500-/400881304594 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOLTAGE-REGULATOR-for-KYMCO-People-250-Superdink-300-Venox-250-Xciting-250-500-/400881304594)
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Don't rush with the regulator. You have said before your battery voltage rises to 14V when the engine is on idle. That means your regulator is doing its job and charging your battery. However, the 14V is a tad low and is probably the result of the headlights being on. At idle your generator can't produce much juice and your headlamps drain the battery faster than the what your generator replenishes.
Your headlights were my suspect but didn't want to jump the gun yesterday. They should be off by default, no?. Don't you have a separate switch to turn them on/off and another one to switch between high and low beam?
What kind of DVM/meter are using to measure resistances? Most off the shelf ones would struggle at measuring such low resistances we're talking about here. 0.05 Ohms.
I would go around and inspect light switches/wiring harnesses, and continue from there.
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gone thru the manual per section with updated results
CURRENT LEAKAGE TEST
Specified current leakage: 5 mA max.
-on 10 amp scale screen shows .01 with key off & 5 with key on
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ALTERNATOR CHARGING COIL
(also called stator?)
yellow wires from engine?
Standard: 0.4ï¼0.6 Ω (20ºC/68ºF)
-mine measures .5 on 200 scale
Check for continuity between each Yellow
wire terminal of the alternator side connector
and ground.
There should be no continuity.
- none found
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REGULATOR/RECTIFIER
Battery line
Measure the voltage between the Red/White
wire terminal and ground.
There should be battery voltage at all times.
- yes there is 12.5 v at this connection where it feeds into wiring harness
Ground line
Check the continuity between the Green wire
terminal and ground.
There should be continuity at all times.
-yes on the wiring harness the green has continuity to all grounds
Charging coil line
Measure the resistance between each Yellow
wire terminals.
Standard: 0.4ï¼0.6 Ω (20ºC/68ºF)
-nothing reads on tester.
-I assume this is on the reg/rec side of the wiring since it in this section???
-this is confusing me because we did a different a diode test here on these yellow wires to the r/r.
on the engine/stator of the yellow wires it does produce .5 ohms
-is this a manual error?
it then says this:
Disconnect the regulator/rectifier connector.
Check for continuity between each Yellow
wire terminal regulator/rectifier side and
ground.
There should be no continuity.
- it's like it should have been coonected before to test but that is impossible.,
-no continuity found
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Update regular recifier test with better tester
-Neg lead on pos R/R & pos to all 3 yellows produce 560 diode test.
-Pos lead to neg on R/R & neg to all 3 yellows also produces 560 diode.
-neg lead to neg R/R & pos lead to yellow equals no reading
-same with pos lead to pos
So is this a good R/R?
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IGNITION PULSE GENERATOR
INSPECTION
-this is the other connector coming from the stator
Measure the ignition pulse generator
resistance between the Green/White wire and
Blue/Yellow wire.
Standard:
DINK 200i: 16.4Ω (20ºC/68ºF)
DINK 125: 106Ω (20ºC/68ºF)
i Have a FI 200i. the 125 is a carb.
-i'm getting 101ohms so it's it way out of range & bad or the manual has the two switched.
is this my issue of a dying batteries?
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SPECIFICATIONS
Item Standard
DINK 200i 12V10AH
Capacity
Voltage Fully charged 13-13.2V
(20℃) Undercharged 12.3V
DINK 200i STD: 1A Quick: 5A
Charging current
Battery
Charging time STD: 5-10hr Quick: 60min
A.C. Generator 168W/5000rpm
Charging coil resistance (20℃) Yellow～Yellow 0.4～0.6Ω
Regulator/Rectifier Limit voltage 14.5±0.5V
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Don't rush with the regulator. You have said before your battery voltage rises to 14V when the engine is on idle. That means your regulator is doing its job and charging your battery. However, the 14V is a tad low and is probably the result of the headlights being on. At idle your generator can't produce much juice and your headlamps drain the battery faster than the what your generator replenishes.
Your headlights were my suspect but didn't want to jump the gun yesterday. They should be off by default, no?. Don't you have a separate switch to turn them on/off and another one to switch between high and low beam?
What kind of DVM/meter are using to measure resistances? Most off the shelf ones would struggle at measuring such low resistances we're talking about here. 0.05 Ohms.
I would go around and inspect light switches/wiring harnesses, and continue from there.
i was wrong with .05 ohms. engine/stator side yellow wires producing .5ohms per spec.
i'm not sure if this scoot turns off headlight?
always on with key since it bought it.
as for the light I would be riding for awhile (7000 rpm) then turn it off then battery fails to restart.
it reads 13.9-14v at idle and reved. never changes. odd? figured it would go up with rpm but always same reading.
even if the front light was draining battery it charged up each night. a drain would not damage 4 batteries in a row, would it?
i have an led bulb for it but think I have other problems?
i'm going to open the front next and check all connections.
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Well I got the scooter running again.
I purchased a new starter, reg/rec (updated design with larger heat sink) and starter relay plus a new Yuasa battery.
The new starter turned easier when I do it by hand too.
All parts are Taiwan made, avoid Chinese mainland ones.
She starts strong now and I'm getting 14.25v charging. It was less than 14v before.
Tough to say 100% the issue but I have a consistently strong starting Kymco now.
ps Anyone with a Kymco can probably upgrade to this better reg/rec design.
Bolts right up and seems it fits all FI models.
images and part # here:
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/need-help-with-a-kymco-starting-issue.1168819/page-4#post-31626661 (http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/need-help-with-a-kymco-starting-issue.1168819/page-4#post-31626661)
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I realize this is an old topic but my Yager got 200i is doing the EXACT same thing. I’ve replaced batteries, the starter and the reg/Rec. can’t seem to find what’s draining the battery. What’s also weird is even with new fully charged batteries after a little while it seems like it can barely turn over the engine even when fully charged. Did you find a solution to this?
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@jtown, I have to admit being a little bit overwhelmed with this pages of measuring.
Usually in a shop I would start to search in a case like yours, with this.
- full battery test, in your case ok
-all fuses out and new ones in (decorrode prongs)
- disconnect the plug between stator and regulator/ rectifier
pls see link
- measure with multimeter on AC each of this three YELLOW cables from stator during motor running, should be 50-70 volts AC at
cable 1-2, 2-3, 3-1 same voltage on each
-if this shows this amount, your stator is fine
NEXT
-connect this plug from stator to regulator again
-start motor
-let it idle, should be 12.9-13.6 volts DC on your battery
-gas up to 3-4000 rpm, should be around 14.8V
If not, several measures, your regulator is faulty.
Maybe att link helps.
Another culprit might be the minus cable which leads from your battery to your starter motor, there I had a rotten endpiece once on a LIKE 200i.
Maybe check this link beneath too.
https://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=31637.0
If this all comes out positively we have to see into your starter relais.
The one with a red and black plastic cap on it.
If you put jump start cables on your starter directely, what happens?
If it starts happily is either your starter relais faulty or mentioned minus cable rotten, or both.
https://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=31878.0