KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => People GT 300i => Topic started by: ST/SV on March 19, 2015, 03:03:53 AM
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Has anyone had any problems with the front forks sagging? I don't ride the 300 daily but the other day I noticed it seemed to be very rough and almost bottoming out on the roads I normally ride. When I got home I started looking at things and noticed while sitting on it the suspension was sagging all the way down to about an inch or 2 left of travel. I've never noticed how much it use to sag before. While sitting on it and holding the front brake and working the suspension up to its limits and back down to where it settles it seems that it's settling down way to low. Has anyone done any fork work like replacing oil, springs or adding spacers?
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let us know witch oil Wt. you use and how much Wt does your scoot carry, you and pile on, if any, feels like my scoot could use the same work, lots of rough roads here,. 60,000 km. and I weigh 220 after this winter, 300i DT.
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Changing the fork oil on my 250 made a huge difference. 10w BelRay fork oil. Easy to change, remove the shocks and drain from the lower bolt. Fill through the top. You do need large Allen bits.
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I weigh about 185. I'm sure it could use a fork oil change just because it moves up and down a little to easy. On the sag I'm thinking another spring but I'm sure it would be fun trying to find aftermarket springs that will fit. If I end up pulling the forks I may try a spacer on top of the spring. I have been looking thru all the threads trying to find a tupperware removal but found nothing so for. Man I hate to start breaking up the plastic.
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The people GT unfortunately is a PITA to get the front legshield off.
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Soft suspension
• Weak fork spring
• Insufficient fluid in fork
• Deteriorated fork fluid
• Incorrect fork fluid weight
• Low tire pressure
If you decide to dis-assemble your front forks, let me know and I will email you the service guidlines.
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Kymco uses SS# instead of Weight rating for the oil viscosity. The recommended is SS#8 which from everything I found doing my forks is about 6.5w fork oil. I used 10w oil and it made my bike feel MUCH more stable on fast corners and takes potholes better. Before my shocks would bottom out all the time, and now I have to hit a major pothole for them to hit bottom.
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Kymco uses SS# instead of Weight rating for the oil viscosity. The recommended is SS#8 which from everything I found doing my forks is about 6.5w fork oil. I used 10w oil and it made my bike feel MUCH more stable on fast corners and takes potholes better. Before my shocks would bottom out all the time, and now I have to hit a major pothole for them to hit bottom.
Will try this. Thanks for the info.
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after how many years and miles did the front suspension sag?
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if you put a spacer in the front shocks, what would you use and how thick would you make it??? and would you put it top or bottem of shock,. de dee
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if you put a spacer in the front shocks, what would you use and how thick would you make it??? and would you put it top or bottem of shock,. de dee
I was also thinking about putting a spacer in to stiffen it up, but decided against it because even if it does make it feel stiffer it'll bottom out easier.
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agilbeda, only one I can rule out is tire pressure, checked that first thing. Let you know if I tear them down. It's been years since I have taken any forks off but it's going to bug me until I do. Replaced 4 or 5 leaking fork seals back in my dirt racing days but they were all exposed on those bikes with no plastic removal involved. The Tupperware bothers me the most. I have a Sym 125 and had to tear into the front end to get to the radiator because of a heating problem and I couldn't believe how easy it was to strip out the plastic threads on that plastic, there has to be a better way to hold that plastic on.
BettinANDlosing, you say you have a 250 and changed the fluid, does it have the same front end as the 300, if so may have to pm you when I get ready for tips on the Tupperware removal if things come to a screaming halt. I do have a large set of allen sockets I bought for my Kawasaki 1400 Concours and Honda ST 1300.
Buds, It's a '13 model, black, with 1700 miles and I just noticed it last weekend while riding after hitting a few spots in the road I usually ride but this time it hit a lot harder and jarred me, it even sounded like it bottomed out and they were not huge pot holes.
dedee, I would rather have some aftermarket springs, probably a bit stiffer, than a spacer but back in the old days we would put some washers on top of the springs to add more pressure to them which would take away some sag. I've heard some use pvc pipe also but it has to be close to the spring size. I don't know how these forks are assembled, if you just take the top cap off which compresses the spring or something different, it's been 25 plus years since I've looked in one.
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The 250 has a similar design, let me know i can get you the fork section of the service manual when I have a little free time. You might not have to take any plastic apart, reach up / look at the top of the front shocks, if you can see the 14mm bolts at the top (two on each shock facing forward). If you think your can get a socket on them you're golden. Remove the wheel and caliper ect from the shocks and they should just drop down with some effort. You might have to turn the steering to get your ratchet on the bolts, but way better than getting the plastic off.
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It takes me about 10 min. to remove the front clip, last year it was raining for a couple of days, and I striped the whole scooter for some thing to do,. cleaned it all and put it all together again, a real fun day for me, the look on some peoples face when they seen it, and the next day when I was riding again , they asked how many pieces were left , only two screws, from the tupper ware,. de dee 300i downtown,.
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The 250 has a similar design, let me know i can get you the fork section of the service manual when I have a little free time. You might not have to take any plastic apart, reach up / look at the top of the front shocks, if you can see the 14mm bolts at the top (two on each shock facing forward). If you think your can get a socket on them you're golden. Remove the wheel and caliper ect from the shocks and they should just drop down with some effort. You might have to turn the steering to get your ratchet on the bolts, but way better than getting the plastic off.
Man do I feel like and idiot. :-[ When I read your post I thought how could you possibly reach up to a bolt to remove to take the forks out. I've had this bike a year and a half and never realized the forks only have a single triple clamp holding them. I just thought it was like my most motorcycles with a set of triple clamps. I then ran over to the Sym to look up under it and it was basically the same thing, never noticed when I had that Tupperware off. Looks like it can be done without the Tupperware coming off like you say, hopefully this may be easier than I thought. I'm planning on messing with it next week. I'm going to dig out the manual to see if there is anything about how much oil goes in them, if I don't see anything I may be pinging ya'll for assistance.
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Yeah!!! It doesn't take much oil, like 80cc max. Good luck and post up if you need any help.
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scoots are different, the downtown takes 185 cc. looked up springs , for GT 300 $ 30.54 for the DT. $ 12.23 and they have a rebound spring $ 3.31,, and it looks like the oil makes a lot of differents, B&L used # W 10 oil and they have W 15 and W 20 ,
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BettinANDlosing I may need some help, went ahead and took the fork leg off the non-caliper side to look at it, it's a different animal than I use to tear apart. I'm not even sure how you would take the spring out, there is no screw-on cap on the top like I'm use to seeing, just a rubber cap. I did pull the bottom allen screw out and the oil is now draining. If you are anyone can tell me how many cc's to go back with, also the torque of the axle and pinch bolts I would appreciate it. If I don't hear from anyone I'll stick some 10 wt. fork oil back in, I'll just measure how much came out and replace it with a hair more.
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BettinANDlosing I may need some help, went ahead and took the fork leg off the non-caliper side to look at it, it's a different animal than I use to tear apart. I'm not even sure how you would take the spring out, there is no screw-on cap on the top like I'm use to seeing, just a rubber cap. I did pull the bottom allen screw out and the oil is now draining. If you are anyone can tell me how many cc's to go back with, also the torque of the axle and pinch bolts I would appreciate it. If I don't hear from anyone I'll stick some 10 wt. fork oil back in, I'll just measure how much came out and replace it with a hair more.
You should be able to pry that rubber cap off and there will be a very large Allen head below it. Also it is totally fine to just refill from the bottom, just make sure to put some weight on the shock to "squeeze" out as much old oil as you can, then tip upside down to refill. You can't clean the valve this way, but unless your bike has a million miles then this will be sufficient. If you do take the large Allen off the top, beware there IS SPRING PRESSURE!!!!! So get ready to hold the top cap pretty tight or have a friend help. You can get 99% of the oil out the bottom tho, I just ended up taking mine all the way apart to clean and the top seal was blown so I had to take 100% apart.
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You should be able to pry that rubber cap off and there will be a very large Allen head below it. Also it is totally fine to just refill from the bottom, just make sure to put some weight on the shock to "squeeze" out as much old oil as you can, then tip upside down to refill. You can't clean the valve this way, but unless your bike has a million miles then this will be sufficient. If you do take the large Allen off the top, beware there IS SPRING PRESSURE!!!!! So get ready to hold the top cap pretty tight or have a friend help. You can get 99% of the oil out the bottom tho, I just ended up taking mine all the way apart to clean and the top seal was blown so I had to take 100% apart.
Just got back from getting some fork oil. Did you say you had a 250, because below my rubber cap it is smooth across, no large allen style cap to remove. I did press down on that smooth part and it did go down some, enough to see it had a ring type clip on the inner walls of the slider that has to be pulled to remove the cap, a harder set-up than just unscrewing a cap. Sheesh, I'll need more hands for this. Someone would have to push down on the smooth cap enough to compress the spring a little to see the clip and another person would have to try to pry the spring clip from the inner wall before the cap can be removed to remove the spring. I guess a press type set-up would work to push the spring down but I don't have one. Since I can't find a after market fork spring I want to get it back together for now and see if just fluid will help some. By the way with that bottom bolt removed you can take the slider out of the lower fork, now to get it back in and tightened without the rod spinning with every turn might be a pain without an impact wrench, which I have at another place 65 miles away. Just need to know how much oil per leg.
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scoots are different, the downtown takes 185 cc. looked up springs , for GT 300 $ 30.54 for the DT. $ 12.23 and they have a rebound spring $ 3.31,, and it looks like the oil makes a lot of differents, B&L used # W 10 oil and they have W 15 and W 20 ,
de dee were those stock springs are aftermarket and where from? And was that apiece or a pair?
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"Compress the fork tube all the way. Fill the fork tube with the specified quantity of fork oil 177 cc. Use fork oil type SS#8 (10W)." -Cyclepedia
Sorry I figured It would be like most of them I've done and have an allen but I just looked at the manual and they say to compress that top cap and take out the snapring.
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I ordered the springs from powersportswarehouse.com and they are kymco supplyed parts, I ordered ring sealstoper @2.89 ea. oil seal @23.18 stoper ring @1.47, rebound spring @3.31 spring @ 12.23 packing washer @1.47, some of the parts are the same for GT 300 and the downtown. B and lose are your prices close to these,. shiping for me is $ 18.00 from S.C., to N. Y.
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"Compress the fork tube all the way. Fill the fork tube with the specified quantity of fork oil 177 cc. Use fork oil type SS#8 (10W)." -Cyclepedia
Sorry I figured It would be like most of them I've done and have an allen but I just looked at the manual and they say to compress that top cap and take out the snapring.
I finally rigged up a strange looking press with a hydraulic jack and the 2 x 4 holding up some shelving and managed to compress it down enough to remove the snap ring because I really wanted to fill the new oil from the top. I managed to squeeze about 160 cc of oil into a container. So I ended up losing 17 cc. That's what I really needed to know, how much goes back in. Thanks for looking it up for me. I was looking online last night and found a place that sells shop manuals for $19.95 but decided to hear from you before I bought one. Now I'm going to put it back together tomorrow then take the other fork leg off. Thanks
p.s. Might be a dumb question but what is Cyclepedia?
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I ordered the springs from powersportswarehouse.com and they are kymco supplyed parts, I ordered ring sealstoper @2.89 ea. oil seal @23.18 stoper ring @1.47, rebound spring @3.31 spring @ 12.23 packing washer @1.47, some of the parts are the same for GT 300 and the downtown. B and lose are your prices close to these,. shiping for me is $ 18.00 from S.C., to N. Y.
Good to know there is a place that has parts, I'll keep them in mind. My dealer is about 40 miles thru Houston traffic and I'm sure he doesn't keep much in stock.
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dealers have not got the space to keep stock , or the money , they order from kymco and re ship , my local dealer keeps a few tires and 1 or 2 belts, for the higher volume sales , mostly ATV,s,
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p.s. Might be a dumb question but what is Cyclepedia?
Cyclepedia is like Haynes, they take apart bikes and make the service manual. Kymco USA had them write all the new service manuals. Not as good as the factory manual but I don't think those exist in English for the new bikes. I have the factory kymco manual for my B&W and it's much better than Cyclepedia.
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Cyclepedia is like Haynes, they take apart bikes and make the service manual. Kymco USA had them write all the new service manuals. Not as good as the factory manual but I don't think those exist in English for the new bikes. I have the factory kymco manual for my B&W and it's much better than Cyclepedia.
One last thing BettinANDlosing, does it give the torque for the 2 upper bolts that hold the fork leg and the 2 pinch bolts that hold the axle?
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One last thing BettinANDlosing, does it give the torque for the 2 upper bolts that hold the fork leg and the 2 pinch bolts that hold the axle?
29 ft. lbs for the 4x mounting bolts (12mm)
Pinch bolts 7.5ft lbs
Cheers man!
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29 ft. lbs for the 4x mounting bolts (12mm)
Pinch bolts 7.5ft lbs
Cheers man!
You have been a great help, thanks
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Been out of the pocket for awhile. Just wanted to get back after changing the fork oil. It seems to have made a small improvement but not exactly what I was wanting. I still think a slightly stiffer fork spring would help but finding one and if someone even makes one is the question. Found a company (CARPIMOTO) that sells some aftermarket springs for a Downtown but I don't even know if they share the same forks as the People plus not sure how much it is because I'm not sure what the country is the currency and how to convert it. So if anyone ever comes across some heavier aftermarket fork springs please post up. Thanks BettinANDlosing, de dee, and agilebda for the spec. sheet you sent me, for your help.
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oil on your tubes?.
Sounds like you have an oil seal leaking.
Common problem with motorcycles and scoots.
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You can, as a last resort add a little more shock oil to stiffen things up. Careful tho, too much will bottom out early.
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took my forks off today , measured the oil in them and 25 ml. short in each of them, in my 300i downtown it takes 185 ml. in each shock, I put 190 ml. in and what a difference in the ride, so much smoother, should have done this when it was new, de dee
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Been awhile since I’ve been on the forum. Since I started this thread I had to dig it back up to find some torque measurements so I thought I would just post my question here. I noticed my forks have a bubbling type noise when taking it off the center stand after sitting awhile. Reached up above the top of my caliper side fork leg and noticed the rubber cap missing on that side. Does anyone have some kind of part # or know a reliable Kymco dealer where I could order one? Appreciate any info.
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Hello everybody,
Sagging of front fork.
I buy '(may 2021) a second hand Kymco GT300i with 7500 miles. On the road , if small hole or small bump , my front fork was noisy ( knocking) and i reach the the full stroke of the fork ( around 100mm = 4 inches). I put new oil SAE20 but same problem. ( I know my own weight is around 200lbs !!!).
I took few measurements:
Free stroke of the fork = 4 inches with spring found in place, ref : 51401-LGE5-E00 ; sagging with bike own weight = 2 inches ; sagging with me on the bike = 3.2 inches . So only 0.8 inch left for ridding.
I decide to put 2 stronger springs.
New spring ( same lengh , same outeside diameter; wire diameter= 11/64 inch), ref ; 51401-LDH1-E00. Sagging with bike own weight = 0.8 inches ; sagging with me on the bike = 1.5 inches , maximun stroke during heavy braking 3.2 inches.
Road test : no noise , even on holes and bumps. I am happy.
I hope this feedback will be useful.
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@Manzat great, txs for sharing!👍👍