KymcoForum.com
Scooters - Big Bore => Xciting 500 => Topic started by: Hoolander2 on June 17, 2010, 01:31:37 AM
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I did it. I ordered the HiT Clutch from Dr. Pulley (unionmaterial.com) direct. Also some 31g sliders and the slide pieces for the stock variator. I figure the clutch will come set up medium to mild but able to adjust a good bit with springs.
They say sliders come in 26, 28, and 31g. I chose 31s hoping for a little more power in the top half of the rpm range.
The ordering process dealing direct with them has been fairly easy, though I thought their bank had lost my money at first. Did a wire transfer for pmt. Guess it'll take a couple weeks from Hong Kong.
Will let you all know how it goes.
The Xciting has been running FINE and I'm still loving it! Still have that nagging sort of clicking/ringing which I haven't pinpointed yet but maybe these parts'll fix it. At least I know it's not the valves now. I'll prob put a new belt on while I'm in there.
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...have you experimented with what weight roller works best with your scoot?
..a bit heavier and you lose a LOT of take-off power...without any gain in top end...
..there's a balance...
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No, Wslinger. This will be my 1st experiment. I think I understand the 31s are about what's in it stock, though. Well, we'll see and can always go lighter.
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..that's cool...hope the setup works out for you!!!
;D
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Yeah, set up your clutch first and then work out what weight rollers/sliders you need, it will change with different clutch springs.
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Right to all that. I think this set up will come just about as close to stock as one could set it up, which is fine. I really only want the slight gains that should come from the smoother action of it all.
. . .
Maybe later on I'll try tuning it differently to see if it'll pull the front wheel off the ground. ;D
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Yikes!! :-)
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You crazy beech! if you want wheelies just put a cinder block in the road!
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I have been happy with the 28 gram. Gave me a little more power and made take off and acceleration smoother. Scooter is peppier. 31 gram may take you the other way. I believe stock is 30 gram. I did loose a couple of MPG since it added about 500 RPM to lower speeds. Highway speeds the RPM finally drops as sliders move out.
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Cinder block! Ha! :D Well, I ain't no stranger to bikes that'll lift the front end. The old Kaw triples would do it easily and hold it there just from rolling on the throttle. Just had to watch out you didn't come all the way over! I don't crave to do that on the Kymco, though. Well. . . maybe once or twice would be interesting.
Dr. Pulley is asking if I want em to put some lower amount on the invoice since they don't know what the import tax is for the USA, if any. Are any of you familiar with import taxes? Say, from Hong Kong to the USA.
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No one has ever charged import taxes on any of my overseas purchases. I have seen several people get held up in customs for this tho. Try google!
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I have read that often they will check the box that the contents in the box is a gift? This avoids tax's? :-*
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We'll find out in a week or so. The DHL tracking shows the parts have left their facility over there. :)
I have received several detailed email attachments from the company's director, Paul Wu, telling how they set up my clutch and how to tune it if necessary. They've set it up to match the sliders I ordered, I believe. How nice is that!?
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Unbelievable!!! Soooo many dealers don't even know where the part mounts!
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,,,sweeet......
good luck with it...i know you're stoked!!!
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keep us updated on thoose 31g sliders. i am having problems with the sliders after doing 140kph plus runs. this is my 2nd set of sliders. have a friend who also installed 31g sliders, he is also having the same problems.
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I'll sure update as I get on with this, drifter. What kind of probs are you and your friend having?
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when doing city driving they work well but when you reach 140kph plus you will notice a loss on accelaratin or torque and when you check on the sliders they are tilted/rolled. Both of us are using 31g. 1st i thougt it was the sliders so i ordered a new set, same thing hapenned maybe it was the back plate so changed it too! Ended up replacing back plate, pulley, half pulley but still the same problem. Btw. What clutch did you get, the old or the new kind?
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Didn't know there was an old and a new kind, drifter. I got what they call the HiT clutch, is all I know. It all got here a couple days ago, and yes, I'm stoked! I'll sure be watching out for that problem you describe. In fact, that's kinda scary. Guess it'd be wise to take it real careful up to or above that speed.
I also got what they call the slide pieces for the variator. Three little plastic pieces.
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i think the older version has 3 clutch pads and the newer has 4.
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This has 4 pads. Gonna be really busy this week so don't think I'll get around to putting it all in till next at earliest. Ordered a Gates belt at local auto shop for around thirty bucks plus shipping. I went on the Gates site and looked it up with their cross reference thingy using the kymco #. Then used their distributor locator. One local store didn't offer to order it for me. The other one did.
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I hope you went for the Power Link belt... It is their Kevlar version. The part # starts w/ PL.......
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Yep, it starts with a PL. So today I took the variator off to put the sliders in. Checking the fit I notice that one ramp is not machined correctly or something cause the new slider doesn't slide well at all in that ramp. Out came the dremel for a little shave of the side walls of that ramp in two small areas.
Also, checking all the fits further, I notice that all the ramps are too tight up near the top and none of the sliders will slide all the way up. At least not and stay well seated in the ramp. In other words, they bind badly when nearing the top. This may be the cause of some people's problems. Dremel again and now they slide perfect bottom to top. :) I got a polishing wheel I'll use now to smooth it all up. Also may hand sand with fine wet/dry paper.
Question. I don't have a clutch compressor. Has anyone used big C clamps to do the job? Any other do it yourself ways to dis and assemble the clutch to its' pulley?
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Chinese scooter compression spring change 50 cc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxphUXeTwRY#normal) The kid is a little over the top w/ the screwdriver, but you get the idea.
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I agree with you zombie, no need for the screwdriver. When I first opened the clutch I was worried about it flying so I was going to make a compressor, but after giving it a try I found it was no big deal. I used one of those folding D.I.Y.tables that act as a vice and clamped the clutch in it while I loosened the nut then put it on the table and held it down with my hands while my wife removed the nut. I would have no qualms about doing it solo if I needed to. :)
P.S. not the sort of music I normally listen to, but that tune was kind of catchy.
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I noticed that he did not show how to put it back together! :D I like most people do not have problems pulling things apart, but trying to get anything with springs in it back together causes some problems..... zingggggg ohhh now where did the spring go...
awwww sid... now I know why you call yoursellf a the sloth..... marriage is scary for the reason of wives removing our nuts :o :'(
sorry can't resist ::) :D ;D
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It's ok mate, I was waiting for something like that. :)
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Putting the variator back on I asked myself what that washer between the pulley faces is for? I fit it all up and notice with the washer in, the outer pulley half doesn't line up with the outer half of the clutch pulley. With the washer out, it does. I'm thinkin to myself, hmm, this might be just a restriction thing. Like to keep the top speed down a little.
I'm thinking of leaving it out and test riding. Anyone know if that's what it is? Or anyone left it out?
On the clutch work, I'll have to get some much bigger clamps before I can disassemble it. I got some big enough to hold it all while loosening the nut but not big enough to then slowly open em up to let the pressure off. Anyway, I thought I'd see how tight the nut was on the clutch and, WoW, I couldn't budge it with my big channel-locks. Will have to get a big 49 or 50mm wrench (maybe the Kymco one) to get it loose.
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Can you post up a pict. of the washer deal? There should be none between the pulleys... I use an adjustable wrench for the nut on the clutch. I just wack the end w/ a mallet to "break" it loose
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Yep, I can take a pic. But get this -- in the service manual picture it shows the washer going in. But in the parts catalogue exploded view, it AIN'T there. It's just a washer that goes up against the boss and keeps the outer pulley half positioned further out. AND, I can see the belt has never ridden to within a quarter inch of the top of the pulley. Of course I guess that could mean nobody's ever topped this scooter out. I know I haven't -- yet. ;D
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That will make a difference on the travel. It's the same thing they do to restrict the smaller engines. It MAY be there for allowing a different belt to be used?!? Sort of a ps, I always trust the exploded view drawing MORE than the manual too. The service manual is made for us, and the drawing is made for the dealer to find the parts.
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Putting the variator back on I asked myself what that washer between the pulley faces is for?
..wtf??
..never heard of that on a big scoot...
..if you remove it, get a longer belt....
..and then begin tuning your cvt all over again....
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Got it all together this afternoon. I chickened out and left the washer in for now cause I wanted a good comparison test ride with the new sliders and clutch as stock as possible. And cause I'm just chicken. The ride is nice and smooth for sure. The old rollers or slide pieces must've been the source of much of the clickety/clanking I'd been hearing cause with the new sliders and slide pieces it's much quieter and that growling/howling from the old clutch is ALL GONE. The old rollers were not flat spotted. The new slide pieces hold the ramp plate and pulley nice with no slop like the factory ones.
The performance is good: I have to rev motor quite a bit higher to get moving but somewhere up the mph range it settles down and I think revs are a little bit lower at highway speed. Need more time to tell -- I only rode 5 miles. Clutch action is nice and smooth with no jerks or bumps.
I got a couple of different thickness shims to put under the big spring (is it the torsion spring?) No instructions or guidance as to what they're for so I left em out for now. Also got at least a couple sets of different clutch shoe springs for tuning.
Got very briefly to 140 kph with no problem like Drifter mentioned. Gimme a week or two to find time to go where I know of a nice straight stretch of highway for a real high speed run.
Oh, and I think I'll locktight the clutch and variator nuts first too. Good idea? Bad idea?
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Oh, and I think I'll locktight the clutch and variator nuts first too. Good idea
..i just love a good success story....
..love to see the big bore scoots get mods too!!
;D
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Those shims are for the torsion spring. they will adjust the pre-load on the clutch pulley. The more pre load the longer it will hold a particular range at a given rpm. If you want lower initial rpms you can leave the shims out of the spring. if you add shims, this will hold the higher gear ratio longer to get more pep out of the low/mid range. The draw back would be higher fuel consumption. The advantage is reducing the shudder in the clutch as you have seen. I find every scooter clutch will shudder if you roll the throttle to the point where the pads contact, but are not yet grabbing. Most of the Supper Scooter riders are having this trouble because they are babying the scoot on take off. Hit the throttle like it owes you money.
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Hit the throttle like it owes you money.
..ain't that standard operating procedure??
...i do...
;D
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Let's talk about this a little more guys, if you please, cause I think I'd like to tune it just a little bit differently. I think this higher rev take off doesn't take advantage of the great low end torque the 500 has. And I don't think the initial take off is quite as good as with the stock set up, though it may be my imagination. For instance, it doesn't seem as easy to crawl along in bumper to bumper traffic as when stock. I mean I really gotta pour the gas to it to get going and then it's not as -- I don't know how to say it -- peppy? controlable? in the 1 to maybe 6 or 8 mph range.
Let's say I'm gonna stay with these 31g. sliders, then the tuning will have to be in the clutch or torsion spring.
But first consider this. Thinking more about taking out that washer between the variator faces; If the belt rides a littler higher in the variator -- won't it just ride a little lower in the rear pully? Wouldn't the only limiting factor or danger be that the belt would run out of room at the bottom of the rear pulley at absolute top speed?
I can always go to weaker clutch springs too, right? Also, there is one big washer on the torsion spring which I don't think HAS to be on it, even though Dr. Pulley's diagram shows it there and I put it there.
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I don't have much experience with cvt transmissions, but from what I have done with my zx50, I think lighter clutch springs would give you more low speed driveability, a lighter torque spring would also improve it. By removing the washer you mentioned may give the result ynu are after. The only wax to find out which would best suit what you are after is to try each a step at a time.
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Took it to 155 kph or better today -- smooth as glass and no problems with sliders. Was still climbing eagerly when I backed off.
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good for you hoolander! I am still having problems with mine so i am thinking of getting the malossi variator. Has anyone tried it?
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drifter, did you see my post where I discovered my ramps were not machined right? Or shall I say, not machined right for "sliders". I could guarantee you my sliders would've bound up at speed if I hadn't dremeled the ramps.
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my sliders go up and down smoothly on the ramps.
installed a malossi pulley today like the accelaration but not yet tested on top speed. then again it comes with 20gram rollers so i think dr. pulley sliders is still practical and much cheaper. i think you would get the same results if you install 20g or 25g sliders.
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Aw, gee, and here I though I was helpin beat that problem. :( I'll be keeping a sharp eye and ear out for that slider problem to crop up still then.
Good luck with the Malossi! Keep us updated on it!
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noticed the side wall of the stock pulley has a rough finish so sanded it till it was smooth. Rode it for about 180km but mostly it was uphill and didn't had a chance to top it but when i checked it after sliders was ok and didn't turn. Thanks for the tip hoolander! Will try it on the tollways this sunday.
About the malossi pulley. Take off is a lot smoother but at higher rpms. Timed the 0-100kph 10-11sec and to 150 is around 20. (indicated speed)