KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: TANWare on July 22, 2011, 11:09:28 PM
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I just had them changed out at the shop on my 3000 mile service. Now have the first 40 miles on them.
0-60 MPH times with my 240 LBS before was about 10.5 to 11 seconds. Now I just tried it twice and I am 8.0 to 8.5 seconds. Acceleration now is at 6,500 RPM at WOT, before about 6,000. so the advertised performance is definately there. You can definately feel it in the seat of the pants.
Top speed for my short runs has not changed. 92 MPH indicated but instead of 8,200 RPM it was at 7800-7900 RPM but still felt like it could have climbed higher but I ran out of space. It did feel stronger accelerating from 60-92 indicated but too short a run and too much traffic for this chicken little.
Casual riding will take getting used too. Take off is smoother as slightly lower geared but at the same time low speed RPMs are up a bit. 35 MPH steady is now 4,300 RPM where 4,100 would do before. 40 MPH is 4,500 RPM and 4,300 would do before. 50 MPH is 5,000 the same as it would do before. Now at 55 mph and above the RPM's lower. at 60 I do 5,400 RPM where 5,500 before and 70 is now 6,200 where 6,400 to 6,500 before.
Another note is RPM variation under any acceleration is higher. The bike lets the engine run more freely under 55 MPH so when you give it some of the twist the RPM's climb much higher but you feel more juice under you and the engine does not sound as labored. That is unless you are WOT, then you can hear and feel the higher RPM at full juice.
About the best way to describe it is before the bike was lugging it as much of the time it could. Now the bike sounds more normal like it is not lugging. I am sure though this will affect MPG though. The first tank will be a killer as I have the WOT's etc..
So the jury is out still as I kind of liked it as a lugger. The engine load is quiter now though but I really don't need the extra umph that it provides. So we will see as time progresses. If I do change though DR pulley 20x12 16 gram would be the choice as that should put lower speed RPM's back where they were but still give me the lower RPM than stock at 70 MPH...............
Edit; I should note for those not familiar that the torque curve is rated tops at 6,500 RPM and top HP at 8,500 so as it stands the rollers seem to put the engine at its most efficient RPM values for torque. This again will eat into MPG but you really can feel the difference and the sound with the stock muffler can definately be heard as the engine just doesn't have that straining sound like it is in too tall a gear.
Of course it really feels weird at first. Maybe if I hadn't put the 3,177 miles on the bike before changing it would have felt normal. Also having ridden much larger bikes for so long I am not used to bikes with small displacement engines that require the extra RPMs to be in the pipe range.
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Great info, thanks for sharing!
I'm still trying to figure out if I could live with the DT or should I get the XC500Ri..
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Hi Tanware
I presume you are talking about rollers/sliders? Keep us updated would like to know how you get on with it and what effect it has on consumption.
Have a good weekend
Frank
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Yes, DR Pulley slider rollers. I now have 100 miles on them and am becoming more used to the ride. I can say these rollers let the engine run more in the pipe, if you like that.
Below are some video's. in each the last 50-60 MPH were on an uphill so this adds about another 1 second or so to the normal times but for comparison. Just remember I am 240 LBS so the bike is pretty strained.
Once you have buffered both files if you start the DR Pulley video at 12 seconds of the stock video they start off at the same time. The DR Pulley video ends at 23 seconds into the stock video but the stock video goes on to 25 seconds before 60 MPH. So it shaved off about 2 seconds or so.............
DT300i 0-60 stock, Kymco Downtown 300i. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAF3oJWpn10#ws)
Kymco Downtown 300i DR Pulley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHyL7O63YJI#ws)
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Yes, DR Pulley slider rollers. I now have 100 miles on them and am becoming more used to the ride. I can say these rollers let the engine run more in the pipe, if you like that.
Below are some video's. in each the last 50-60 MPH were on an uphill so this adds about another 1 second or so to the normal times but for comparison. Just remember I am 240 LBS so the bike is pretty strained.
Once you have buffered both files if you start the DR Pulley video at 12 seconds of the stock video they start off at the same time. The DR Pulley video ends at 23 seconds into the stock video but the stock video goes on to 25 seconds before 60 MPH. So it shaved off about 2 seconds or so.............
DT300i 0-60 stock, Kymco Downtown 300i. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAF3oJWpn10#ws)
Kymco Downtown 300i DR Pulley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHyL7O63YJI#ws)
I can see 6000rpms in the first vid at WOT, what revs are at WOT with the sliders?
The scoot I had for a test ride usually accelerated at 5600-5700 at WOT, and when it DID happen to hit 6000 once or twice the
difference in acceleration was (subjectively) huge.
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6,500 RPM WOT, as mentioned the seat of the pants can definately tell.
As a side note 6,500 RPM is the engines rated max torque curve. What this means is the cylinder per detonation is providing the max efficiency in providing power output. So while a lower slider weight may provide more power to the rear wheel from torque multiplication you are not increasing efficiency.
So with engine mods or further slider mods you may increase performance but not efficiency in power delivery. Now just as in every other vehicle increasing to the optimal point rather than lugging the drive system can eat up MPG. Time will tell on this tough............
Edit; Scooters CVT's are a bit different. The 0-35 to 40 MPH is the time it takes the variator to settle out and RPM's to lock in. You will notice only a slight improvement in that range. Beyond 40 MPH is where you start to see a big difference. Now this is more true then of roll on performance as the CVT is already preloaded and the engine already at rev's from any speed. So this is where the sliders really start to shine as well.
If you are already at 40 and need to get to 65 MPH to pass on a roll with the sliders will get you there WAY quicker. Also remember this too changes the way you ride. Where you wouldn't have used the gas before to pass that truck you now will. Again eating up MPG. So it is not just the mechanical efficiencies at work eating fuel but the inevitable riding changes because of capabilities that actually will have even more of an impact..................
Edit 2; Where I could be on the 50 MPH highway before behind a slow vehicle in the slow lane I could easily change to the speed lane and pass them. Now I can change to the speed lane and somewhat blast past them. It still is no motorized missle, but there is a significant improvement............
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6,500 RPM WOT, as mentioned the seat of the pants can definately tell.
As a side note 6,500 RPM is the engines rated max torque curve. What this means is the cylinder per detonation is providing the max efficiency in providing power output. So while a lower slider weight may provide more power to the rear wheel from torque multiplication you are not increasing efficiency.
So with engine mods or further slider mods you may increase performance but not efficiency in power delivery. Now just as in every other vehicle increasing to the optimal point rather than lugging the drive system can eat up MPG. Time will tell on this tough............
Edit; Scooters CVT's are a bit different. The 0-35 to 40 MPH is the time it takes the variator to settle out and RPM's to lock in. You will notice only a slight improvement in that range. Beyond 40 MPH is where you start to see a big difference. Now this is more true then of roll on performance as the CVT is already preloaded and the engine already at rev's from any speed. So this is where the sliders really start to shine as well.
If you are already at 40 and need to get to 65 MPH to pass on a roll with the sliders will get you there WAY quicker. Also remember this too changes the way you ride. Where you wouldn't have used the gas before to pass that truck you now will. Again eating up MPG. So it is not just the mechanical efficiencies at work eating fuel but the inevitable riding changes because of capabilities that actually will have even more of an impact..................
Edit 2; Where I could be on the 50 MPH highway before behind a slow vehicle in the slow lane I could easily change to the speed lane and pass them. Now I can change to the speed lane and somewhat blast past them. It still is no motorized missle, but there is a significant improvement............
Thanks for the info!
I've ridden dozens of scoots, and worked at a scooter shop so I'm very much aware of how stuff works, I was just
looking for some hard numbers which people usually tend to ignore and just say "Yeah, it's faster now!".. which sucks ;D
The scoot I had for a test ride usually didn't rev over 5700 at WOT, and I've noticed that when it finally DID reach 6000 at around 62mph
it would FLY so naturally I was instantly thinking - lighter weights, but that might make the top speed even worse, and I was not happy with
how high the engine was revving at 75-80mph.
Did you try a top speed run yet with this setup?
It would be great if the CVT on the bike can be set up in a way that it will allow over 6000 (like you have now) at WOT under 60mph,
but bring the revs down by at least 300-500rpms around the bikes top speed, would make it possible to run the bike at high speeds for
longer without having to worry about pushing the engine too far.
I'm still trying to decide if I can live with the DT300 or should I go for the XC500 which again has it's own quirks and flaws (higher weight,
fuel consumption, agility etc.). It's hard to jump from a 70hp bike to a scooter with less then half it's power and I don't want to loose
the touring ability that the higher power bikes have. I'm aware that there isn't much power difference between the DT and XC, but running
the bike at a constant 80mph on the freeway to get to the good roads fast will probably put more strain on a 300cc engine then on a 500cc
engine.
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I'm still trying to decide if I can live with the DT300 or should I go for the XC500 which again has it's own quirks and flaws (higher weight,
fuel consumption, agility etc.).
You've been deciding for two years now, is there estimated time for completion? :)
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You've been deciding for two years now, is there estimated time for completion? :)
The Downtown isn't on the market for 2 years.
I can't buy a scoot before I sell my kawasaki, it depends on that.
I sold my car last month, now the kwak has to go.
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The Downtown isn't on the market for 2 years.
I can't buy a scoot before I sell my kawasaki, it depends on that.
I sold my car last month, now the kwak has to go.
It was Majesty before DT/Xciting dilemma.
Axy forgets nothing.
;D
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It was Majesty before DT/Xciting dilemma.
Axy forgets nothing.
;D
Yeah, while the Majesty ABS was available for 51kkn, now it's 6k more, and
since then I've ridden the DT.
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Cruising at 60 MPH the RPM's are 5,500. 65 is 5,800 and 70 is 6,200. Now this is flat cruising you should note the RPM's are a bit looser if you hit the gas and will raise slightly more than with the stock weight rollers to bring up speed or climb a hill etc.
Since our stock rollers are 15.5 Gram if you want stock performance under 50 MPH I'd suggest the 16 gram and slight improvement under 50 go for the 15 gram. Remember the heavier weights will cause the top gear to lock up easier so while cruising RPMs become more leisurly so will top speed acceleration.
Agreeign with cortez, the engine at 70 felt rushed before, 70 feels fine at 6,200 RPM. 75-80 I haven't tried yet but I am thinking at least 15 gram rollers if you plan to do that often. Still a slight improvement on the low end but should make those higer speeds, at least where the engine is involved, happier. I will try it out in a bit and report back.
Short WOT top speed showed also 92 MPH but now 7,800 RPM not 8,200. I have not had a long enough run to see if it would go higher. Now this too was sitting streight up, not tucked in for the run. I am trying to report back all nuances as normal riding would yeild too others.
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Cruising at 60 MPH the RPM's are 5,500. 65 is 5,800 and 70 is 6,200. Now this is flat cruising you should note the RPM's are a bit looser if you hit the gas and will raise slightly more than with the stock weight rollers to bring up speed or climb a hill etc.
That's interesting.. the one I tried had 6000 on the dash at 60..
This sounds great.
And here's my acceleration clip:
Kymco Downtown 300i acceleration (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBRnt680rLQ#)
This scoot obviously needed new weights and/or belt.
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if the rollers were bad it usually raises the RPM's and the same for the belt. The lighter you are too the lower the RPM as there is less resistance against the variator so it does not pull as tight and the gear ratio does not raise as far. CVT's act differently than a normal trans, but that is obvious. Yours does seem to be a bit low though. Had/Have you calibrated the throttle?
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if the rollers were bad it usually raises the RPM's and the same for the belt. The lighter you are too the lower the RPM as there is less resistance against the variator so it does not pull as tight and the gear ratio does not raise as far. CVT's act differently than a normal trans, but that is obvious. Yours does seem to be a bit low though. Have you calibrated the throttle?
I haven't done anything, it's not my scoot, I had it for a weekend test-ride, put 400 miles on it.
I did manage to make it rev over 6000 once or twice at WOT after getting off the freeway doing
80-85 for like 30 minutes, but once it cooled down it went back to around 5700.
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Ah, ok, yes at speeds like that it will raise. Also with use it goes up as well.................
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Short WOT top speed showed also 92 MPH but now 7,800 RPM not 8,200. I have not had a long enough run to see if it would go higher. Now this too was sitting streight up, not tucked in for the run.
That's interesting.
I'm not sure I understand why lighter weights then stock would take the revs down at higher
speeds, I figured the revs would rise evenly from 0 to top speed.
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No, the lighter "you" are.
Edit; the bike and rider at 560 vs, 660 LBS has lower resistance against the torque, especially at breaking static inertia. This will with a lower resitence not pull the variator as tight so RPM's will be slightly lower as without the really tight variator the gear ratio does not raise as high to increase the RPM's.
Now the difference may only be 100-200 RPM but as can be seen this makes a difference. Now 200 more RPM may be there but also to get that you have that extra 100 LBS so side by side performance the bike will be slower with the heavier load.
Edit 2; without going into the complex math and physics involved in variator design they are made so the RPM's do not evenly go up between 0 to top speed. The design of slider compared to round rollers make the RPM variance at the same weight greater. In the end you have a wider range of ratios.
The stock rollers are actually 23x12 with a service limit of 22mm by the service manual. The reason for 20x12 is to further raise the initial gear ratio and rpm. This is why even with the stock 15.5 gram weight you still would have a higher low gear but because of the ramp/slider design you change over to a taller top gear earlier (essentially (guessing at the sizes here) with the contact points the slider is acting like a 27x12mm roller as it sets into high gear).
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Well first full tank on the new rollers. To my suprise no loss in MPG. It returned 72 MPG and this is with a few WOT's in acceleration and top end. Now this is only the first tank so consider this a preliminary report so far.
As far as 75 MPH the revs at cruise were 6,700. So this felt a bit rushed. I would recomend if your primary driving is at that speed to get at least the 20x12 15 gram sliders. At 75-80 then the 16 gram sliders. Of corsse the heavier the slider the less improvement to low speed as it will drop the revs there as well.
For 70 MPH the 6,200 RPM is very comfortable, 65 MPH at 5,700 even more so. Riding at 50 MPH or under the RPM's are slightly higher and hitting the throttle will raise them higher than before too. With the fact the CVT is a torque multiplier the 10% or so higher revs gives the 10% back as added torque to the rear wheels and the fact the engine produces more torque per rev at higher RPMs adds to this as well. You defin ately feel the difference.
Now I should add though my engine note about 3/4 through the tank changed slightly. I think the engine has found another step in breaking free. The rev responce seems to be slightly quicker and from a stop the exauhst note almost has a small rap to it at first. The carb with 50% throttle also seems to have a slightly throatier sound to it from when the tank started. This could just be a placebo effect too or maybe my ears just cleared out as I was not expeting/looking for this and was not paying close enough attention.
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Well first full tank on the new rollers. To my suprise no loss in MPG. It returned 72 MPG and this is with a few WOT's in acceleration and top end. Now this is only the first tank so consider this a preliminary report so far.
As far as 75 MPH the revs at cruise were 6,700. So this felt a bit rushed. I would recomend if your primary driving is at that speed to get at least the 20x12 15 gram sliders. At 75-80 then the 16 gram sliders. Of corsse the heavier the slider the less improvement to low speed as it will drop the revs there as well.
For 70 MPH the 6,200 RPM is very comfortable, 65 MPH at 5,700 even more so. Riding at 50 MPH or under the RPM's are slightly higher and hitting the throttle will raise them higher than before too.
Thanks, great info!
Sounds like the 14g pulleys are a great choice for everyone except guys who spend a lot of time
on the freeway at 75mph+, but this scooter is probably not a good choice for that kind of riding
anyways.
I'd like to have 80mph at no more then 6600-6700 for ME to feel comfortable doing that speed for
2-2,5 hours that I'd have to be doing to get me beyond the boring roads here. Sounds like that might
be possible with 15g pulleys, eh?
Of course, the 0-60 acceleration should be under 10 seconds too..
Gaah, we need to transplant burgman 650's CVT.. ;D
EDIT: Amazing MPG figures, too! If that's US gallons.
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I still do not understand that "fear or revs". It is unhealthy. ;D
I bet my 250 cc scoot could spend its life at 75 mph without any issues.
Much more likely than the same scoot driven at 25 mph with frequent stops/go's in city traffic.
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Yes, US gallons. I was expecting a hit to MPG of at lesy 2 but more likely 4 MPG or more. It is a pleasant supprise not to see one at all. Most of the ime I tried to ride normally, for me at least, so this I am sure helped. It is hard not to give it that extra juice as it really wants to GO!
Personally I am not comfortable at 80 or even 75 on this bike. 75 now though feels a bit rushed with the RPM's althogh the bike was rock steady. I would say for daily/extended use at 75 MPH go with the 15 gram and for 80 MPH the 16 gram. With the 15's I'd say 10 second 0-60 is definately possible. Unless you are only 160 LBS or lighter, the 16 gram I don't think will get you there but it should still leave you with an 11 second or slightly better 0-60 MPH time or better than with the stock rollers.
Ia gree for casual use the 14's are an awsome choice but if you like the lugging style of ride I would suggest the 15's. The 14's up to 50 MPH provide a slightly winding feel to the bike, like an auto trans always in high performance mode. The 15's should provide a more relaxed feel to the engine but of course less acceleration performance.
It isn't a "FEAR" of revs, just some prefer the feel of lower rev's. When riding at higher rev's when you hit the gas or let off the acceleration/deceleration is stronger. When you are riding a bumpy road with a twist grip it is hard to be 100% constant and locked on the throttle position and this then can actually make a bumpy road feel worse than it is as just one example. So with the lower gearing while acceleration is lessend it is smoothed out a bit and feels less twitchy.
And yes, this bike could easily sit at 6,700 RPM all day long. Rev's do not kill a motor any faster so long as it is taken care of. Rev's though, if not watched out for, can easily eat up more fuel..........................
Edit; another less thought of situation is in the rain or other slippery surfaces like stones. The lowered torque to the rear wheel of a lugging engine will keep you better planted.........
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I still do not understand that "fear or revs". It is unhealthy. ;D
I bet my 250 cc scoot could spend its life at 75 mph without any issues.
Much more likely than the same scoot driven at 25 mph with frequent stops/go's in city traffic.
Yeah, it probably could, but it would probably fall apart sooner at constant 8000 then
7000, and then there's the fuel economy thing, and noise/vibrations.
The Downtown (stock) is very smooth at virtually all speeds, but the vibes get to you
after around 7500, so it would be nice if it would be as fast as possible at 7500 or under,
but without loosing too much of 0-60mph acceleration (which is not impressive at all for
a 30hp scooter, but that can be changed easily as you can see).
I just don't want to end up selling the thing after two years because I've put 40.000km
on it at almost 8000 revs and can't stop thinking about how long it will last beyond that
point. Maybe it's not a realistic fear, but if it's bugging you, you won't take the trip, right?
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Edit 2; without going into the complex math and physics involved in variator design they are made so the RPM's do not evenly go up between 0 to top speed. The design of slider compared to round rollers make the RPM variance at the same weight greater. In the end you have a wider range of ratios.
The stock rollers are actually 23x12 with a service limit of 22mm by the service manual. The reason for 20x12 is to further raise the initial gear ratio and rpm. This is why even with the stock 15.5 gram weight you still would have a higher low gear but because of the ramp/slider design you change over to a taller top gear earlier (essentially (guessing at the sizes here) with the contact points the slider is acting like a 27x12mm roller as it sets into high gear).
Never thought of that, thanks, makes perfect sense.
BTW; you shouldn't edit posts that much, especially after a reply to it has been made, I
stumbled upon the edit2 by accident, the forum won't notify people you edited your post
and will end up reading under it and never see you edited the original post!
Just write a new post, and edit only when you write something wrong or miss a word or
something.
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Yeah, it probably could, but it would probably fall apart sooner at constant 8000 then
7000, and then there's the fuel economy thing, and noise/vibrations.
Yes, whole 100 kms before. :)
The Downtown (stock) is very smooth at virtually all speeds, but the vibes get to you
after around 7500, so it would be nice if it would be as fast as possible at 7500 or under,
but without loosing too much of 0-60mph acceleration (which is not impressive at all for
a 30hp scooter, but that can be changed easily as you can see).
I just don't want to end up selling the thing after two years because I've put 40.000km
on it at almost 8000 revs and can't stop thinking about how long it will last beyond that
point. Maybe it's not a realistic fear, but if it's bugging you, you won't take the trip, right?
Well, it certainly is not easy being you. 8)
How about letting go the fears of things falling apart, imminent expenses and trouble, excessive consumption and just drive the scoot? :)
Like, you know, relaxed style?
Did that idea ever cross your mind? :)
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to do 8,000 RPM even stock you would have to be at like 85+ MPH, almost WOT. At 80 MPH stock you should be about 7,200 to 7,500 or so RPM for cruising........
I edit alot as I don't want to artificially raise my post count. Apparently I had edited while you were posting and reading the non edited version, sorry about that.
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I don't know what you guys are worrying about. My S125 has 31000K on it almost all WOT and I changed to sliders to get more top end. It runs as good as the day I purchased it. My 300I is doing the same run at about 110Kmh 6 days a week. I am planning a 6000+ K trip next summer with it, 3200 in 4 days. I don't even think about how long the bike will last, it is built well.
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Personally I'm not too woried about longevity just MPG and ride. These small displacement motors are made to be wound out in general.
Now performance of a 30HP engine is actually a bit misleading. All gas engines have a torque curve. Some are flatter than others and this can greatly effect performance in acceleration. While the 400cc Suzuki is compareable to our 300cc performance the rev points and also the torque curve is different. More than likely through added efficiencies the new engines have better efficiency than the older 400cc so peak HP is better per cc but low end torque the 400cc may easily trounce our bikes.
Now the 400cc bike has almost a 100 LBS totat weight disadvantage yet acceleration stock to 60 MPH is not far off. This is a good indicator of the 400cc's higher low end torque. The old addage is there is no repalcement for torque generation than displacement. So far even today this is still a good generalization but not as true in efficiency or total HP anymore.
For the best ballanced performance of acceleration and MPG you want to operate within the RPM range of the max torque curve of an engine. This is the range the engine is most efficient in converting fuel to power. Opertaing above that is where the torque curve is going down but has not ramped below that of the RPM ramp until it goes to RPM' above the max HP. Above the max HP your torque ramp has fallen below that of the RPM ramp to red line.
Now for reference we get 26.5nm torque at 6,500 RPM. That is 24.2 HP from the crank at that speed. If the torque drops to 25.5 at 5,800 RPM that is 20.8 HP available. This gives us 16% more HP and 12% greater power multiplication from the gear ratio so percieved power for acceleration at WOT is almost a 30% increase (1.12x1.16 is 129% increase). This is simplistic math and there are other factors but just to show you a generalization.
For further comparison at the crank the Burgman 400cc is 34nm at 6,000 RPM so at max torque curve that is 28.66 HP available. To get to max HP on the Burgman you raise the RPM to 7,500. With us max torque is 6,500 but max HP is @ 8,500 RPM. So this is further food for thought especially where the burgman 400 is at speed against wind resistance....................
Edited for some typo's
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I found a set of 20x12 13GR.....would this be ok if the majority of my riding is below 65mph?
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I wouldn't, it would place your low speed cruising RPM's too high. If you don't mind winding it out that is fine, but I would suggest against it. Try emailing the guy below. It is expired now but maybe he still has some stock etc.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dr-Pulley-slide-rollers-20x12-Kymco-Downtown-300i-YP250-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2312671f59QQitemZ150632603481QQptZMotorsQ5fATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dr-Pulley-slide-rollers-20x12-Kymco-Downtown-300i-YP250-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2312671f59QQitemZ150632603481QQptZMotorsQ5fATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
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I don't know what you guys are worrying about. My S125 has 31000K on it almost all WOT and I changed to sliders to get more top end. It runs as good as the day I purchased it. My 300I is doing the same run at about 110Kmh 6 days a week. I am planning a 6000+ K trip next summer with it, 3200 in 4 days. I don't even think about how long the bike will last, it is built well.
I agree 110 KPH or 68.75 MPH feels good stock. My RPM's there were about 6,000-6,100 before but now would be about 5,800-5,900. I would have no issue before or after with that all day long. These bikes for "legal" speeds are perfectly capable.
The sliders have a main advantage under 50 MPH or 80 KPH. with the higher RPM's the bike is much more capable. Before I overloaded the bike 2 up with a total of 480 LBS. Nedless to say the engine had a great strain and you could hear and feel it. I think this load would now be greatly reduced.
On that note I think these are perfect for adding a top case, bigger windscreen and even a two up touring capability. I was contemplating swithing over to 15 gram but now that I think about it since there is no MPG hit the 14 gram is really the best choice for these motors and increasing the bikes capability.
As each mile passes I am becoming more used to the higher revs at low speed and it is feeling more natural. It is still hard to accelerate as I did before the change, there is just so much more available but nothing is free as they say.
I was thinking of another side benefit. That is the electrical charging system. Even the shop manual to test the charging system has you do this at 5,000 RPM's. So if you were to add on gloves and the like the system should be more capable. So this opens yet more options for us with the bike. Even though the total wattage can't be overlooked at low speeds we should not have to worry as much about battery discharge.
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Thanks TANWare,
Very interesting observations.
As each mile passes I am becoming more used to the higher revs at low speed and it is feeling more natural. It is still hard to accelerate as I did before the change, there is just so much more available but nothing is free as they say.
I presume you refer to the "hard to accelerate" quote, because you want to keep the milage up, right?
Looking at Fuelly, your riding style seems to be already a bit more heavy handed, then most :(
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I am pretty easy on the bike, average US MPG is better than 70 so actually for the type of bike I am not doing bad at all. I am pretty light on the throttle normally but i've been playing lately. I refer to hard to accelerate at only a modest rate...............
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I just ordered mine...cost a few more bucks but i'm real close to my 3K oil change. I got a plug on the way too.
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good deal, you ordered the CR7EIX? I got two, alway good to have a spare. I am still not sure if I want to go to 15 or even 16 gram sliders. I love the performance but do prefer lower RPM's, just my style of riding even with a shifter.
It would be nice if there were a way to shift between the two weights with a flip of a switch................
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good deal, you ordered the CR7EIX? I got two, alway good to have a spare. I am still not sure if I want to go to 15 or even 16 gram sliders. I love the performance but do prefer lower RPM's, just my style of riding even with a shifter.
It would be nice if there were a way to shift between the two weights with a flip of a switch................
Yeah, that's the one. I just emailed the shop in town to give me an estimate on synthetic motor and rear end oil along with the installation of the spark plug and the rollers. Just bought a beautiful M1A Socom 16 and then got hit with a $1500 repair bill for my car so money is kinda tight right now.
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My dealer doesn't carry Royal Purple so I purchased it and brought it in for them. 1.5 quarts for the change in the engine and I think it is like .25 quarts or so of the Heavier oil for the FD. I brought in 2 engine quarts and 1 quart of the FD. RP is just my choice, others may work just as well..................
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It would be nice if there were a way to shift between the two weights with a flip of a switch................
Burgman's Power mode FTW..
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good deal, you ordered the CR7EIX? I got two, alway good to have a spare. I am still not sure if I want to go to 15 or even 16 gram sliders. I love the performance but do prefer lower RPM's, just my style of riding even with a shifter.
16! That's be interesting to see!
I think I'd try 15.. and that'll probably be right for me.
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16! That's be interesting to see!
I think I'd try 15.. and that'll probably be right for me.
I am thinking of 15's as well but not too sure. The problem I had with choosing the 14 gram is there was so little info on these my only choice was to get them and try them out. All you hear about on the net is just 0-60 and maybe about some MPG effects but nothing else.
This is why I am posting all the impressions and thoughts I can so others can make a more informed decision and not just follow the crowd as I had too. I think I will wait for the air cleaner so as to not make too many changes at one time.
I know I can seem insufferable with all my postings sometimes but my intent is too pass on my experiences for our communities bennefit................
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I am thinking of 15's as well but not too sure. The problem I had with choosing the 14 gram is there was so little info on these my only choice was to get them and try them out. All you hear about on the net is just 0-60 and maybe about some MPG effects but nothing else.
This is why I am posting all the impressions and thoughts I can so others can make a more informed decision and not just follow the crowd as I had too. I think I will wait for the air cleaner so as to not make too many changes at one time.
I know I can seem insufferable with all my postings sometimes but my intent is too pass on my experiences for our communities bennefit................
Problem is, MOST people are only interested in the 0-60mph figures and not much more!
That's why everyone is posting only about that.
I'm thankful for all the info since I was wondering about the cruising rpms etc, since I figured
14g was too light, and now with your info it seems to be great.
However, if 15g sliders would also raise the RPMs up to 60mph I'd go for them since I'd want
revs as low as possible at higher speeds.
The scoot I tried accelerated at 5700rpms and was "OK" but nothing special, WOT at 6000rpms
was A LOT better, I guess between 6200 and 6300 would be enough for me, and that's
probably what would happen with 15g weights.
..and a few hundred less at 80mph for example.. purrrfect.
Someone better buy my kawasaki..
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I think you have it about right on with the 15 gram, even if 6,100 it would be great. At 60 now the RPM's ae about 5,400 or so with the sliders. just rememebr if you are heading up hill etc the 14 gram alows the RPM to get a bit higher than stock. 15 gram would put you more in line with the upward RPM range of the stock 15.5 gram rollers.
Personally I care about riding, if you are going to drag race the bike there are alot better options. Now ramp acceleration from 35-65 or 70 MPH onto a freeway interests me much more. The same goes from 45-60 for that need be umph on a local highway etc.............
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I think you have it about right on with the 15 gram, even if 6,100 it would be great. At 60 now the RPM's ae about 5,400 or so with the sliders. just rememebr if you are heading up hill etc the 14 gram alows the RPM to get a bit higher than stock. 15 gram would put you more in line with the upward RPM range of the stock 15.5 gram rollers.
Personally I care about riding, if you are going to drag race the bike there are alot better options. Now ramp acceleration from 35-65 or 70 MPH onto a freeway interests me much more. The same goes from 45-60 for that need be umph on a local highway etc.............
I wonder if the thing can be set up so that the revs are "normal" when cruising and 8000rpms at WOT
regardless of speed. Maybe with aftermarket clutch and variator..?
Got no experience with that.. but wonder if it's possible.
That's what I love about burgman 650's and aprilia mana's eCVT.
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However, if 15g sliders would also raise the RPMs up to 60mph I'd go for them since I'd want
revs as low as possible at higher speeds.
Well, this would go against existing laws of physics, because in order to go fast, you need power and the only way to develop power would be to increase revs, unless you have turbo charger or low revving 2-stroke diesel engine used in ships.
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Well, this would go against existing laws of physics, because in order to go fast, you need power and the only way to develop power would be to increase revs, unless you have turbo charger or low revving 2-stroke diesel engine used in ships.
As you've seen with the 14g rollers, they do exactly that.
Increase the revs at lower speeds for better acceleration, and keep the revs lower
at higher speeds.
I'm not saying it should do it's top speed at 5000revs as that's obviously impossible, but
the stock 15.5g setup will rev the bike up to around 8700 revs at 150km/h (the one I
tried) and it might be possible for the bike to maintain that same speed at 500 revs less,
since the power peeks around 8500rpms, and the power output at 8300 and 8700 is
probably the same, and THAT can be used to make the bike go faster OR rev slower
at the same top speed.
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Had/Have you calibrated the throttle?
Is that, ingition off, full throttle, ignition on for 8 seconds, ignition off, throttle off, ignition on?
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13.13 of the manual or page 144 of 232............
http://www.scribd.com/doc/18793545/Kymco-Downtown-300i-EN# (http://www.scribd.com/doc/18793545/Kymco-Downtown-300i-EN#)
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Figured to update the thread. I now have done my 3rd fill since putting in the new rollers. The last tank I spent little time worrying about the higher RPM's and just riding. I am still over 70 MPG and the last tank yielded 71.2 MPG...................
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your dr. pulley set are they rollers or are they sliders, and what is the diferance
i have 8000 km ( 5000) MILES ON MY DT. TOP SPEED 140 KM. THEN SEEMS TO RUN OUT OF AIR, WAITING FOR THE RACING AIR FILTER FROM LIGHTEC , I installed h11 HID lites, much whiter lites .,but not enough distance yet, the tin man
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Top speed with the 14GR sliders will not really improve. The RPM range does for cruising. Below 50 MPH the RPM's are higher and above 55 MPH the RPM's are lower. Overall, because of the lighter rollers, when you get into the throttle the RPM's raise more from the cruising RPM. With 15GR sliders the RPM's would lower a bit more and possibly provide more top end at the cost od acceleration.
With the 14GR you get better acceleration both in 0-60 or rolling. Just the nature of the beast when higher gearratio's are provided and you allow the engine to operate in the peak torque curve. This will aloso enhance loading up the bike at the maximum weight load for two up or otherwise. The engine just does not have to work as hard.
Normal rollers for the bike are actually 23x12 with the 23 being the diameter. with the sliders smaller 20mm diameter the initial gear ratio at engagement is slightly higher. At high RPM when the slider is forced to the outside of the internal runns it for laack of a better term forces the slider to wedge itself in. becasue of this and the profile it make the slider look like say a 28mm roller. this lower the gear ratio dropping the RPM's. The same can be said of the later where higher cruising speeds are attained with minimal load on the variator allowing the sliders to easilly reside on the outside of the race again.
If you do alot of low speed riding the sliders may actually cost you a few MPG. At highway speeds or so the MPG is unaffected. Now riding it harder because you can with the sliders will eat up MPG as well, nothing is free. At my weight of 242 LBS the sliders greatly increase the capability from 0-50 and slightl increase it above there. They make the bike much more ridable and for my riding, cruising at 70 MPH and up to 75 MPH, the engine never feels strained any more.
I am still waiting on the air filter as well.................... :(
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does the installation of the DR Pulley 20x12 14GR have any effect on the scooter's factory warranty?
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I never asked but I can't see why it should. You are upgrading he roller system and not modifying but if you are concerned I would ask your local dealer or better yet Kymco. The good I would guess is that no one yet on the net has reported an issue.
Now if the rollers are determined to damage the variator I doubt that would be covered. Since though rollers are a servicable item you again should be ok. This is the one reason though I had the dealer install mine. If there is an issue I have them to go back to. A self install could fall back on me if they were to say an improper installation caused damage.
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Thanks, TANWare
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Thanks, TANWare
NP, there are certain items on the bike that are considered consumables. Tires, brake pads/discks, variator rollers/belts/clutch, filters, fluids amongst other items. So long as you stay within OEM spec's you should be ok. Now the sliders are a bit of a question as the stock spec is 23x12 and considerded sevicable at 22.5x12. The sliders are under servicable at 20x12 but at RPM act larger than 23x12.
As proven in real world use the sliders will accelerate at WOT only at the peak torque curve, 6500 RPM, untill speed brings up those revs. Also they do not seem to brin the revs above peak HP of 8,500 RPM you are not over stressing the design of the engine or running it beyond opertational limits.
Now the PIAA headlights are OEM replacements and run at the stock 35 watts. The LED tail lights run at or under wattage even with the load resistors. The lightech air filter is a consumable that is cleanable rather than replacable and will provide as good if not better filtering. RP oils used are above spec so no issue there as well.
As to exhaust and remap that may be another issue. You are changing back preasure and fuel mixtures, this is a recipee for loosing the warrenty as you now are definately altering normal operating conditions of the engine and more than likely removing any rev limitation. While you may raise overall HP you also will not be increasing efficiency to any noticable degree either. To me this is a waiste, but to each their own................
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Curious. Did anyone try the 15GR sliders yet? I mostly ride at 60-70mph for commuting. A few times a month I hit 80+. Some boring parts of Utah have 80mph speed limit. The 14's seem pretty good, after using them for a few months do you find yourself still thinking about the 15's?
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Curious. Did anyone try the 15GR sliders yet? I mostly ride at 60-70mph for commuting. A few times a month I hit 80+. Some boring parts of Utah have 80mph speed limit. The 14's seem pretty good, after using them for a few months do you find yourself still thinking about the 15's?
You'll think about the 15gr ones until you try for yourself, regardless of how many people
write their opinions here.. ;)
Once you start tinkering with stuff like that, you'll never be done with it.
I just wish more manufacturers start using eCVTs like the one in Burgman 650 and/or Aprilia Mana..
We need at least 2 modes on EVERY scooter.. just a 'low' & 'high' switch is all I need, with
500-800rpm difference between the two! ::)
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I know how it goes. Not my first scoot. My last one I changed the carb, engine, pipe, belt and countless types of rollers in search of the perfect balance. I blame it all on TANware. I thought I bought the best all around scooter that I wouldn't change, then he does stuff that I'm like "Yeah, I want to do that too." ;)
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I've always found that a red stripe down the sides tends to make the bike go faster. :)
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I know how it goes. Not my first scoot. My last one I changed the carb, engine, pipe, belt and countless types of rollers in search of the perfect balance. I blame it all on TANware. I thought I bought the best all around scooter that I wouldn't change, then he does stuff that I'm like "Yeah, I want to do that too." ;)
I feel your pain.
I hate him too!
I've always found that a red stripe down the sides tends to make the bike go faster. :)
Well DOH, we all know that!
:-X
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Sorry, but I felt your pains as well and had to find out. Since it is a bolt on change I had to try it figuring if I didn't like it then another trip to the shop was in order. It only took one ride to know there was something to these sliders.
I rarely do over 75 MPH ut gad a chance to run it out at 80 MPH a few times. Now with 4,500 miles and some time with the sliders it feels more natural but I think the 15GR would be a better bet. My cousin mentioned the bike feels dialed in with the 14GR and I agree but if you like a lower rev then the 15GR is the way to go.
coming from a Reflex and 400 MP3 he was very happy with the roll on power even from 70 MPH. I can tell you following him on the Reflex a few grades at 55 MPH he was pulling ahead with no issue while I was at WOT watching him pull away. While on these grades with the DT you have to work the throttle but only slightly so long as you keep up with it.
For what I ride the 14GR is fine, again though I only normally do 70-75MPH max. If I were to do 80 MPH on a regular basis the 15GR's would be the ticket and I'd deal with the lower acceleration. It would still be better than stock just not as good as it is now.
Since we use 15.5 GR stock the 14 GR is right at the DR Pulley recomendation of 10-15% less weight to attain the same top speed while gaining acceleration. By your riding style you have to determine if you want to adjust for better top end or even better acceleration. My personal choice will always be the same top end or greater...........
Edit; I should note I post what I can to dispell the myths, like that of 5.9 seconds 0-60 MPH. We need real world info, not what someone of 110 LBS finding a 15-20% downslope with 60 MPH rear tailwind gets..............
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Again, thanks for the info, you've helped a few people outside this forum too, I've linked it
all over the place on our local forums for other DT owners and a few of them have ordered
14g pulleys since.
I'll wait for you to get 15g ones next.. ;D
You KNOW you want to!
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You ALL are welcome. I see the jest's and know well of what you all speak. I too was drug into the rabbit hole and those 15GR sliders are calling out to me. I haven't yet primarily as I want to give the 14GR's a full run. Before I go with them though I want a top case and some time to lug around some extra weight for a while first................
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You ALL are welcome. I see the jest's and know well of what you all speak. I too was drug into the rabbit hole and those 15GR sliders are calling out to me. I haven't yet primarily as I want to give the 14GR's a full run. Before I go with them though I want a top case and some time to lug around some extra weight for a while first................
Well chop chop then, we can't wait forever, dammit!
;D
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Just ordered the 14's. Maybe I'll try the 15's in a while. Now that I've been set on the path, there is no turning back. I swore I wouldn't touch the bike. On my last scoot I did CVT mods so much I could change out rollers, belts, springs, clutch, in any combo in about 15 mins. I even combined rollers of different weights to get the right feel....Hmmm.?.?.Must, fight, temptation......
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Just ordered the 14's. Maybe I'll try the 15's in a while. Now that I've been set on the path, there is no turning back. I swore I wouldn't touch the bike. On my last scoot I did CVT mods so much I could change out rollers, belts, springs, clutch, in any combo in about 15 mins. I even combined rollers of different weights to get the right feel....Hmmm.?.?.Must, fight, temptation......
I am sure you will love the 14GR. Before deciding on the sliders you have to ride the bike for a while and determine what you want. If you are happy with the top end then the 14GR is your ticket for better acceleration and weight hauling capability. If you want just a bit more top end the 15 GR is your ticket with slightly better acceleration and weight capability.
Now if you run into altitudes I'd stay away from the 15's as power is usually reduced so top end most likely will not get improved, better acceleration for available power output is the best ticket.................
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Hi all,
I know this might be a long shot but I am struggling to find the correct rollers for my Downtown 300.
My scooter comes with the “new†pulley reference: LGE5 which by looking at some pictures on the Spanish forum is slightly different, the rollers have less space to roll :). The reference for the “old†one is LEA7. Also the pulley on my scooter is date March 2011
I would like to ask if anyone here has installed the Dr. Pulley rollers 20x12x14 on the new pulley?
I have measure the rollers that came with the scooter and the dimensions are the same, the weight is 15g.
Thanks, Juan
here is a link to the forum I refer to, about mid page you can see them both
http://forokymco.es/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=123&id=39495&Itemid=0#39495 (http://forokymco.es/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=123&id=39495&Itemid=0#39495)
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Kind of hard to follow the thread as I don't speak spanish and the translator has its errors. but from what I get.
My bike is LEA7-E01 and of course a non ABS USA version. I am assuming this is the SK 300i not the SD. From what I can see then we have the 29.5 HP version not the 32 HP version which appears to be the SD (Super Dink) 300i and more than likely has to do with USA emissions and California carb. I am not sure if this then also means, with less emission restrictions, the international ABS version gets the higher powered motor and since also ABS get a CVT variation...................
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Hi TANWare thanks for your reply,
The Downtown 300i is the same Super Dink 300i (in Spain), Dink Street 300i (Germany) and Nikita 300i (Taiwan)... As you mentioned because of emissions restrictions the HP varies and some minor cosmetic differences.
My bike has the stamp LEA7 on all parts but the Pulley, from what I know Kymco changed the pulley on the 2011 models to address the high vibrations on low revs. If your bike comes with the warning lights yellow button on the right hand you have a 2011 (for UK). Not sure how it works in the States, from what I have seen you guys have the indicator lights on your mirrors, we have them on the top corner of the headlights.
The thread was just to reference the difference between the old and new pulleys. I live in the UK so I own a Downtown like everyone here.
For the time being I might have to go for the Malossi rollers with same dimensions and weight (20x12x15g) to the original ones just to be on the safe side.
TAnWare, did you by any chance measured your original rollers?
Thnaks, Juan
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I am not sure if this then also means, with less emission restrictions, the international ABS version gets the higher powered motor and since also ABS get a CVT variation...................
We (mid EU/Croatia) get with 30hp (that's what the importer says), ABS or no ABS, same thing.
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per the manual they are 23x12 15.5GR, Sevicable at 22.5x12. I haven't measured but can tell you the DR pulley's work fine. I do have a USA version 2011 but sine I hadn't done the rollers I can't say about the variator part numbers.
While yes it would be nice to see 32.0 over 29.5 HP when would I ever use it? Other than my tests I never go WOT nor am I at the required 8,500 RPM and WOT to use the total available power. Maybe instead of 92 MPH or so top speed I'd see 95 MPH top end, I never need that either. So in the end the power is a non issue for me.
Now not being able to use other rollers would be a concern. 2012 models for the USA may then have an issue too if Kymco changes the variator. Now this would be a concern as I was thinking of getting a 2012 model too so that I'd have two bikes, one for me and the kids. My kids are no light weights either so the DR Pulleys would be a must for two up riding (daughter and husband)..............
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Okay, so I purchased them and installed 14GR sliders and have been riding on them a few days. TANware is right on, not that I doubted, which is why I bought them. The bike generally feels a tad more responsive, noticeable acceleration through the mid range, and less vibration when cruising over 70. Acceleration over 70 feels about the same to me. I haven't tired taking a mountain grade at 80, so no idea how that's affected. At slower speeds it feels a tad more revved up. If most of your driving is at slower speeds and you like a more leisurely drive around down, don't bother. Overall, I'm happy I did it and found I got use the the differences real quick and am loving that mid range acceleration. Now if I could do something about that seat, or rather the leg room, really not comfortable for me after about an hour.
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Right, top end is only effected very slightly. it does let us get to top RPM easier but at that speed we are already fighting the big resistance, air drag. Since the bike is so highly pre-loaded only a huge increase of power would really be noticable. Where these really shine is mid range and rollon at lower speeds up to about 60 MPH or so.
I am glad to hear you are enjoying the rollers. I am also glad my infomation has helped you to make an informed decission. That is what these forums are all about.................
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thank you for your input on the dt. 300i who is your supply for roller sliders & how much are they, many thanks for the info de dee golden hawk 10,000 km. still luven it
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I got mine off e-bay. There was a guy offereing custom weights there too for $40 USD but don't see him there with them any more.
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Finally did a two up again running 460 LBS total on the seat. Well the rollers made it a much more pleasant experience. The RPM's are noticably higher and acceleration is compromised but it is now doable. I wouldn't want to run interstate speeds for an extended period though.............
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Replaced the rollers with sliders today (14 grams). Did a quick run, only noticed
that the RPM's climb quicker. I was hoping some of the hunting and Grr=Grr
variator/clutch negotiation would diminish. Will do more riding testing next week.
Quick question. After putting it back together, I noticed a clicking sound (bike on
center stand at idle). Do you think one of the sliders slipped out of position ?????
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no clicking here but if you increase RPM's does the clicking go away or vary with the engine speed?
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Increase RPMs the clicking does change, with the increased noise I really can't tell anything.
While waiting for home repair guy, I removed and re-installed (very carefully) the sliders.
It makes the same clicking at idle, I think its 'normal'. OBTW. when holding the pulley/variator
in my hands I just shook it and you can hear some sliders making a 'tink' sound.
P.S. On the centerstand the max (instantaneous) RPM was over 9,000 .
thanks for the answer
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Increase RPMs the clicking does change, with the increased noise I really can't tell anything.
While waiting for home repair guy, I removed and re-installed (very carefully) the sliders.
It makes the same clicking at idle, I think its 'normal'. OBTW. when holding the pulley/variator
in my hands I just shook it and you can hear some sliders making a 'tink' sound.
P.S. On the centerstand the max (instantaneous) RPM was over 9,000 .
thanks for the answer
For what it's worth, the CVT on the Downtown (and People) is one of the noisiest
I've heard in a long time, especially when you give it some. Sometimes sounds like
an old scoot's CVT with worn out rollers (can of marbles) for a few moments after
you hit the throttle hard.
I wouldn't worry about it, I've tried 2 Downtowns and one People 300, all the same.
2 were new (under 1000km), one had over 6000km.
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On another thread someone mentioned the cvt as being noisy. I agree with this my only 'true' scooter comparison is an '05 Burgman 400. I think there is far more noise from the clutch than the variator. Perhaps the spring or whatever will 'wear' in and quiet down with more milage.
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On another thread someone mentioned the cvt as being noisy. I agree with this my only 'true' scooter comparison is an '05 Burgman 400. I think there is far more noise from the clutch than the variator. Perhaps the spring or whatever will 'wear' in and quiet down with more milage.
I got about the same noise levels on a bike with 100-150km on the clock and the one with 6000
with worn out rollers.
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You've been deciding for two years now, is there estimated time for completion? :)
;D
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Sooo, time to revive the thread!
Everyone happy with 14gr pulleys or someone went the 15gr route?
I need to decide quick!
;D
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Answered in a PM. for my riding the 14gr is great. When on the freeway I kind of wish I had the 15gr but I mostly do local and the 14gr is much better suited. The few times I've done 2 up well over the rated GVW I am verry glad I have the 14's...............
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Answered in a PM. for my riding the 14gr is great. When on the freeway I kind of wish I had the 15gr but I mostly do local and the 14gr is much better suited. The few times I've done 2 up well over the rated GVW I am verry glad I have the 14's...............
Thanks for the PM ;D
We'll see how it'll go with the stock gearing and my 200lbs behind, but I'll probably get 14gr unless someone can
confirm that I'd get at least 6250-6300rpm at WOT with the 15gr sliders.
..but having the bike hit 6500 at WOT with 14gr sounds perfect..
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I am in the 220-240LBS range. The 14gr around town works wonders. you have to get used to the higher revs but so long as you drive the same, do not get into the extra acceleration, your MPG will stay the same. the 15gr sliders will yeild slightly better MPG as it should lower crusing RPM at highway speeds.
Also the 15gr would make for a better interstate cruiser as a 1 up machine. The 14gr actually lowers RPM at 65MPH+ by about 100 or so. the 15gr should lower it about 150 RPM or more and lock the RPMs slightly better under acceleration from there.
You have to remember too the stock rollers are 23x12 and servicable at 22.5mm. The initial 20mm profile of the sliders automatically alows for higher RPM at lower speeds. It is as the slider spin out to the outside of the variator the profile increases from the design lowering the RPM per MPH.
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You have to remember too the stock rollers are 23x12 and servicable at 22.5mm. The initial 20mm profile of the sliders automatically alows for higher RPM at lower speeds. It is as the slider spin out to the outside of the variator the profile increases from the design lowering the RPM per MPH.
That would mean that even with the stock weight (15.5gr) Dr Pulley sliders, we should be
looking at higher RPMs at speeds up to 50-55mph?
If the difference is only 100rpm between 14 and 15gr (which I'm trying to find out, but no one
seems to be using 15gr), I'll get the 15.. but I'm worried the difference might be a lot bigger,
and that I'll end up with the same 6000rpm WOT acceleration.
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with the 15gr you should be higher than 6,000 at least 6200-6300. Remember the optimal torque is 6,500. The 14gr is recomended as this is exactly where it puts you. In this manner you are running at the engines most efficient point. Higher weight puts you into lower revs and better gas milage. lower weight better acceleration and lowered gas mileage.
The problem with stock rollers at 14gr is the profile of hte variator doesn't lock in those lower RPM's at speed. The sliders by design increase the profile at revs, as an example at idle they act as 20x12 but at speed they shift position to look more like 27x12. The heavier the slider the sooner it looks like the 27x12 and the harder it locks into the extended profile. (measurement is just an example not meant to be exact.)
You also have to consider the twist grip. If you rev 8% higher and are heavy handed the MPG will reflect accordingly. If you become lighter on the throttle to maintain acceleration at the same rate as pre-sliders then the MPG is not hurt too much if at all. You have to just remember nothing is free. but it is nice on a roll on, as in passing or an on ramp, to have that extra umph...............
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True, I got the idea.. but I'd love to hear someone confirm the revs with 15gr pulleys before
I order.. :( thanks a lot.
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Hi Cortez,
Something that you may want to check first is if your scooter comes with the new variator (the ramps are slightly shorter than the older model) alose the old variator is labeled as LEA7 and the new one as LGE5, which is exactly the same that they are using on the Peoples GT300i.
If it comes with the new variator I would go for the 15g, I had the 14g on mine (with the new variator) and it didn't feel right (too agresive) I kept them for 2 months and changed them to the 15g which make the bike a bit more relaxed when compared to the 14g.
It will be interesting to see your fuel consumption, most guys in the USA get well over 70 mpg, I can only hit the low 60s.
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Hi Cortez,
Something that you may want to check first is if your scooter comes with the new variator (the ramps are slightly shorter than the older model) alose the old variator is labeled as LEA7 and the new one as LGE5, which is exactly the same that they are using on the Peoples GT300i.
If it comes with the new variator I would go for the 15g, I had the 14g on mine (with the new variator) and it didn't feel right (too agresive) I kept them for 2 months and changed them to the 15g which make the bike a bit more relaxed when compared to the 14g.
It will be interesting to see your fuel consumption, most guys in the USA get well over 70 mpg, I can only hit the low 60s.
Yeah, thanks, will check, is that printed somewhere on the CVT itself or can I check somewhere else?
It should be the older model, it's a last year bike!
You got 15g Dr Pulley sliders?
Can you confirm any of the stuff we talked about here (revs at full throttle from standing still, cruising revs
at 50, 60, 70, 80mph, anything like that)?
You don't by any chance remember any of that with the 14g weights? :)
It will be interesting to see your fuel consumption, most guys in the USA get well over 70 mpg, I can only hit the low 60s.
I've made a fuelly account, will make a signature line with it as soon as the bike gets here.
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Just got an email from Paul (the DrPulley guy!), and he's more then aware of the CVT difference in the
new and older Downtown but he didn't recommend anything specifically for any of the two.
I just found a video on youtube of a guy who says he's got a stock bike, and it revs to 6500 on WOT,
so that might be the new CVT setup, and obvisouly exactly what the 14gr sliders would do in the old
CVT.
I'll just have to wait and see which one I get, since obviously the newer CVT type would be better
with 15gr sliders.
Great way to make things complicated. ;D
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I think my readings will not be that helpful as I have installed the Dr. Pulley clutch and I noticed a change of rpm againts km/h straight away. In short the scooter needs more rpm to pull away and slightly less for top end speed.
If you want more details let me know but not sure how useful they will be.
In regards to your variator the only way to tell is by looking at the variator itself, it is printed on the ramps for the rollers :(, however if I am not mistaken if you go by the model number any Downtown stamped with SK60A (on the engine cover easy to access/read) and onwards should come with the new variator. I bought mine at the end of May last year and was one of the first to come with the different variator and clutch.
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I think my readings will not be that helpful as I have installed the Dr. Pulley clutch and I noticed a change of rpm againts km/h straight away. In short the scooter needs more rpm to pull away and slightly less for top end speed.
If you want more details let me know but not sure how useful they will be.
In regards to your variator the only way to tell is by looking at the variator itself, it is printed on the ramps for the rollers :(, however if I am not mistaken if you go by the model number any Downtown stamped with SK60A (on the engine cover easy to access/read) and onwards should come with the new variator. I bought mine at the end of May last year and was one of the first to come with the different variator and clutch.
Thanks!
This is an older scoot probably, so I guess I'll get the old CVT! No biggie as I've just found a source for 14gr sliders that'll ship to me.
The clutch messes things up so yeah, that probably won't help, but I'd still like to hear about it.. since I've heard great things about the HiT clutch.
;D
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:D, yes the Clutch is fantastic, I had the vibration, slippage and noise with the stock one when pulling off and when on traffic, but now that is past!!!
The HiT clutch is great it takes a bit longer to engage with the bell, but once they touch they stick together no messing about. I had it installed last week so I want to give it more time to settle along with the rollers and sliding pieces.
So far I can notice that the bike requires about 700 to 1000 rpm more to pull off, top end speed has increased by at least 5 km/h not a lot but noticeable nonetheless. My riding style is not aggressive so the default spring setup suits my needs (smoothness all over), the clutch comes with 2 x 4 sets of springs (pillows and clutch) to test with and modify the clutch depending on your taste and needs.
With the naked eye you can tell the product is of high quality, starting with the shoe pads the material looks and feels tuff, perfect for its function (to engage without slipping :D).
I had it installed 5 days ago and it is still early days to draw to a conclusion all I can say is that so far that the money was well spent and that I am enjoying my scooter as much as I did the day I rode it for the 1st time.
I will give you a better review after a couple of weeks, with some readings...
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Great!
Thanks!
Make sure you open up a new thread about it, I'll buy probably buy one in the summer.. could use
the rev vs speed info with the setup you got! :)
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Dear Members. then accompany them to post that I published entirely in Spanish forum that may appeal to this thread:
Dear friends, today I discovered indirectly through an open thread juanpuak the American forum, that from January 2011 references to parts of the drive have changed, because the drive as a whole is quite different from the Model 32 cv with respect to the 29-hp, it also evidenced some videos uploaded by juanpuak where you can see the remarkable difference, it is as if we bring you a series production Malossi, confirmed by the end of this motoring magazines commenting that the differences of a model and another were also improvements in the transmission assembly. Now I understand why there is so much difference in performance between the 29-hp, not included in juanpuak, the date of purchase and is already incorporated the new drive and clutch, as I said, now I sense that those who have had a passing 29 hp to 32 hp, less noticeable difference scooter. Am I at risk of being wrong to claim that juanpuak socooter of as fast as ours and that tells me is able to tell the difference lying scoundrel, for that reason those who carry the E000 not be able to notice the difference these 3hp, because I remain convinced that this unit is of 29 hp. improved weight / horse is only 0.61 kg / hp.
References that change in the drive:
Plate which houses the roller: LGE5
where are the movable hood: LGE5
Bushing (which atrviesa drive: LGF9-E00
All other things being equal, the rollers are the same, so we think that Dr, Pulley served it safe and I agree with juanpuak again, I think the rollers 14 gr with this drive will not well go best with the 15 gr.
References that change in the clutch:
Shoes: LGE5
Mobile Dish: LGE5
Plato Primary: LGE5
The hood and contrast the springs and spring are maintained, which is why the bell Malossi juanpuak serves.
Once exposed this that each draw their own conclusions.
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here is the link to the guy that will get you other than 14 gr sliders, enjoy............
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dr-Pulley-slide-rollers-20x12-Kymco-Downtown-300i-YP250-/150689301997?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2315c845ed (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dr-Pulley-slide-rollers-20x12-Kymco-Downtown-300i-YP250-/150689301997?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2315c845ed)
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here is the link to the guy that will get you other than 14 gr sliders, enjoy............
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dr-Pulley-slide-rollers-20x12-Kymco-Downtown-300i-YP250-/150689301997?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2315c845ed (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dr-Pulley-slide-rollers-20x12-Kymco-Downtown-300i-YP250-/150689301997?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2315c845ed)
Found him already, thanks, I think I'll deal with buggypartsnw.com if I'm gonna need 14gr, and that guy above if I need 15.
We'll see, the bike should be here on tuesday.
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Ok! The bike is here, and I've got some 60 miles (in rain..) on the ODO!
;D
However!
I have no idea which variator type I got in the end, since I got some different
numbers then both versions reported here. I guess.
The 2011 test bike I had for the weekend was the same as TANWare's, would
sometimes hit 6000rpms at WOT, and would cruise at some 62mph at 6000rpms.
I've tried WOT 3-4 times up to 60-62mph and I get around 6500 revs up to about
50mph, and then it drops to maybe 6100-6200. There's a slight flat spot between
60 and 70mph and then it starts pulling again. I haven't done over 70mph yet.
At 62mph (100km/h), the revs are at 5500rpm dead, and I was expecting 6000.
Tried it a few times too. Just a tiny variation.. but no more then 5600.
At 6000rpms I get around 68mph (110km/h).
Should I expect any changes in the revs vs speed with time?
Maybe I got the newer variator after all, even if my bike is actually the older
model (no hazard light switch).
Looks like I'll be looking for 15gr pulleys after all.
Can anyone with the newer variator confirm their revs at 60 or 70mph?
Thanks everyone.
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mine takes a short climb with stock rollers above 6,000 RPM but settled there abouts at WOT till speed got where it allowed further. I noticed at speed the RPM's went up at bit. As time goes on the the 23mm gets worn the rpms will climb slightly as well.
Even with the DR Pulleys at first it goes up slightly higher than 6,500 RPM but then quickly settles there...................
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mine takes a short climb with stock rollers above 6,000 RPM but settled there abouts at WOT till speed got where it allowed further. I noticed at speed the RPM's went up at bit. As time goes on the the 23mm gets worn the rpms will climb slightly as well.
Even with the DR Pulleys at first it goes up slightly higher than 6,500 RPM but then quickly settles there...................
I'll try again today, but seems like mine will
do 6500 at WOT..
That's a huge difference in acceleration compared to the last years test bike that did 5600-5700 at WOT.
Lemme just confirm - you had 6000 on the tach at 60-62 right?
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no 5,600 or so....................
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no 5,600 or so....................
Oh.
That's interesting. Then I have the old variator as suspected.
The test bike I had showed 6000rpm at 62mph.
Here's a quick video:
http://youtu.be/jm8m5Dsg2K8 (http://youtu.be/jm8m5Dsg2K8)
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TANWare, now I see what you've been talking about about 50mph roll-on.. being two-up today,
me and my friend are about 450lbs total, the scoot would hit a wall at around 55-60mph and lock itself
around 5600rpms and it took probably over 20 seconds to get from 60 to 70mph it would barely pull!
After 70mph and over 6000rpms it was a bit better, but knowing the available power is there and not
being able to use it is a pain.
Didn't ride too much, I've got a cold and have been working through the weekend, but I think I'm pretty much
decided to go with 14gr sliders even if I love the low revs cruising around town at 35-40. I can live with 200-300
more.
If I understood correctly, at a given constant.. let's say 55mph and 5500rpms that I have now.. WOT would kick
the revs up to 6500 with 14gr sliders or.. ? Because when at speed, and around the 5500rpm range (50-60mph)
the WOT would not shoot the revs past the mark they're already at, and the bike will not accelerate as fast between
50 and 70mph as it would if I gave it WOT from zero at the lights, for example.
THEN it would shoot to 6500.. drop a bit, probably to around 6000 at 60mph but never under that.
The difference in power between 5500 and 6500 rpms on this engine is amazing.
At 5500 it feels just like any other 250cc/20hp scoot.
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At speed the RPM's do increase more with the sliders and WOT than stock. Rolling acceleration is enhanced somewhat...............
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At speed the RPM's do increase more with the sliders and WOT than stock. Rolling acceleration is enhanced somewhat...............
Good!
It's dead 2up between 55 and 65. ;D
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Will be a while until I put them in (3ft of snow..), but everyone likes pics!
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GFAhNG8UqDY/Tz6yC_Ts4OI/AAAAAAAAKbM/4TUXsdtRM0o/s720/IMG_0938.JPG)
Got these for $40+shipping from http://www.buggypartsnw.com/ (http://www.buggypartsnw.com/) in
3 weeks, half way around the world. They were recommended by the
Pulley guys over e-mail so..
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these are 14GR's?
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these are 14GR's?
Yeah, 15gr wasn't available from these guys at the moment and I haven't found anyone
detailing the revs vs speed for 15s like you have for 14s so.. I just went that route.
I guess they'll be ok.
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Yeah, 15gr wasn't available from these guys at the moment and I haven't found anyone
detailing the revs vs speed for 15s like you have for 14s so.. I just went that route.
I guess they'll be ok.
Imagine if they are too high... or too low... all that unnecessary consumption. :)
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Imagine if they are too high... or too low... all that unnecessary consumption. :)
NOT FUNNY! :-X
I've already had nightmares in which the engine was spinnin' at 5600 revs and
it should have been at only 5500 revs.. and the guys at the fuel station were
laughing out loud and pointing at me.. and I couldn't find my mommy!
:'(
It all ended in horrible pain of selling the scooter and buying a VW Golf diesel..
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"It would be great if the CVT on the bike can be set up in a way that it will allow over 6000 (like you have now) at WOT under 60mph,
but bring the revs down by at least 300-500rpms around the bikes top speed, would make it possible to run the bike at high speeds for
longer without having to worry about pushing the engine too far."
I found this statement at the beginning of this thread. It seems to have been a constant question here.
The only way to achieve this is to go w/ an "over-range" variator, and longer belt. You will have to ask each Manufacturer for the O.D. of their Var. and use the largest one available. Your slider/roller set up will remain the same but you will get higher top speed w/ less rpm's. We do it on the 50cc scoots to trick them into thinking they are bigger. My current var. is 10mm larger, and added 8-9mph wot at the same rpm as the stock var.
Changing rollers by 1gr@ = 350-500rpm So a bigger var and your rollers = more top end, and lass strain at cruise, as you can lower the cruise rpm's w/ rollers, and still have more gear for the top. "Over-range"
One final thought... There are not many ready made over-range "kits" Avail. so you may need to adapt a larger Var from another model scoot. As long as the drive bosses are the same I.D., and the face angle's are the same. Belts will be hit or miss as the stated size is not actual but based on application so some cheap belts to dial in the size, untill you find the right one. I imagine the person that finds the "formula" would be quite popular here. I'm using a Var. made for a Rukus that had a 15mm ID drive boss w/ a 20mm OD. My 14x20mm boss did the trick.
I'd sure like to see one of you guys nail this.
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Actually for just 6,000+ RPM you would want the 15gr sliders. The 14gr acutally under WOT at 60 MPH is holding to the 6,500 or so RPM or is starting to let the RPM's slide up at that point. The advantage of the sliders is their profile at cruising speeds.
This profile when at cruising load extends the slider from 20mm to apr 27mm over the stock 23mm. this alows at higher cruising speeds the RPMs to drop but because of the 14gr over the 15.5 stock gr weight the RPMs are ballanced more toward stock levels when crusing. I can tell you from experience on level cruise at 65 MPH it revs between 100-200 RPM lower but go up a hill and it will rev higher than stock.
The heavier 15gr would lower the RPM even more but you would loose alot of the roll on punch added by the 14gr sliders. Personally I weight 240+LBS and that exra punch is well appriciated. If I were a trim 150 pound lad the 15gr may be my preference but alas I am not.
Now 240 over 150 is not much in a heavy car or even heavier bike but here it makes the all up weight increase by over 16%. This is alot of extra load and there but is a heavy performance hit or something else needs to be done. Now where my 0-60 times have decreased to the 9's or so at my weight they would most likely be in the 7's if I were 150 or so............
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My wife damn near killed herself on my ZX. She weighs 110-115...
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Ok!
I've done it.
Had the sliders put in 2 days ago, just managed to do a quick ride and gather
a few impressions.
The bad: Cruising revs at 45-55mph are higher then before, and that's where I tend to
spend over 50% of time. I've got around 400 revs more then before. Not that big of a
deal, but will probably take the MPG numbers down.
The good: Well, everything else, really. The acceleration from zero is a lot better.
I've had about 10-10,5 seconds to 62mph before (I was 10lbs lighter, had no topcase
and topcase mounting kit then) and I've clocked it at 9 seconds now, WITH a huge
topcase and my ass getting fatter by the minute.
Acceleration from 60mph and up is a lot better too.
Long story short, the bike will rev 300-500rpm more in any given situation at WOT
and that usually makes a big difference considering it's now usually accelerating at
6500rpms or more, and it used to average around 6000.
Cruising revs at 60mph are the same (5500rpm), and at around 65 they start going
down (compared to stock weights). I've got it up to 90mph once and I think I saw
7700-7800 rpms. It was way before 8000 before.
I've had a different DT300 top out at 95mph @ 8700 revs once, I'm sure I can do
that on mine @ less then 8300 now.
All in all - all scoots should come with Dr Pulley sliders as standard.
Here's the video comparos:
STOCK:
http://youtu.be/jm8m5Dsg2K8 (http://youtu.be/jm8m5Dsg2K8)
DrPulley ( probably around 25lbs more on the bike and a topcase that's catching wind):
http://youtu.be/N4ptziWdOOk (http://youtu.be/N4ptziWdOOk)
Questions?
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Just an observation... If you went 1gr heavier@ you would keep all the benefits, and bring your rpm's back where you are used to them.
Maybe you guys could set up a "swap & shop" for gently used rollers/sliders. 40.00 bucks per set hurts when you are trying to dial it in.
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Just an observation... If you went 1gr heavier@ you would keep all the benefits, and bring your rpm's back where you are used to them.
Maybe you guys could set up a "swap & shop" for gently used rollers/sliders. 40.00 bucks per set hurts when you are trying to dial it in.
15gr sliders wouldn't rev the engine out to 6500-7000 at WOT, and I needed that more then
the low revs at low speeds. The bike feels more responsive, and just slightly more buzzy.
I actually expected it to be far worse and that I'll end up banging my head against the wall
and wanting 15gr sliders, but I'm happy with my choice, especially for going fast. I was
cruising for some 15 minutes today @75mph and at 6500 (7000 before) it's just spot on,
and I usually don't go over that.
Considering the bike had problems going over 7800rpms today, which is 200rpms short of
maximum power output, I'm guessing I'd loose some top speed with 15gr sliders since it
would rev even less.
I'm still hoping it would go over 8000 after some more break-in.. I'm at 600 miles now, ready
for first oil change. Going over the top expensive synthetic.
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One other thing, I just got 53.5MPG on the last tank, had 3 tanks of 47MPG, but cold weather
and all city riding. Considering half of the last tank was with the sliders, 500 rpms higher most
of the time, and some spirited riding on some twisty/hilly roads, the MPG drop is interesting, but
the weather finally got better.
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Well then... You are on the right track. It's not easy getting it right the first time out! The Synth. oil, and good old fine tuning will get you spot on.
Before I marry again I think I will ask you for input...
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Well then... You are on the right track. It's not easy getting it right the first time out! The Synth. oil, and good old fine tuning will get you spot on.
Before I marry again I think I will ask you for input...
I can help you with that one right now.
Don't do it!
:)
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It's as if you know me...
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Yeah, the sliders offer much better overall performance. The 14GR's seem best for me as well............
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Hi Cortez,
I just noticed a noise on your first video (stock) at 0:03, did you do something to the clutch to get rid of it? on the second video is gone.
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Hi Cortez,
I just noticed a noise on your first video (stock) at 0:03, did you do something to the clutch to get rid of it? on the second video is gone.
To tell the truth, I haven't noticed anything on the videos (can't verify now, no audio here), and
it's been rather cold outside when I've recorded the videos so I've been riding with my best helmet,
which is a dead quiet Schuberth..
..but I do have some kind of buzz coming from the rear of the bike and some plasticky rattling around
the dash.
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Wow, I wish I had a Schuberth helmet to be able to ignore these noises. I had the same noise coming from the transmission area and it all got sorted with the Dr. Pulley clutch.
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Wow, I wish I had a Schuberth helmet to be able to ignore these noises. I had the same noise coming from the transmission area and it all got sorted with the Dr. Pulley clutch.
Earplugs do that even better.. and cheaper.. ;)
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HI boys
I have no Downtown yet (I have a Grand Dink 125), but I bought Pulley rollers and sliders one month ago...
My experience, the rev is little higher, because of that the acceleration is much better, there is no "hole" between 40-60. I haven't noticed the consumption would changed at all. Now it 3,5 l/100km (I am from Hungary, so I dont know that miles/gallon number, sorry), and I am a 97 kg rider. So I am totally satisfied. If I will have my Downtown (I hope), the first will be the roller changing...
I admit a secret for you. :)
First I put the rollers in a wrong position. The result was scary. There was a part in the rev, where the engine has less power. But in the red field the engine gone crazy, it is pulled like a bigger bike. And I can reach the max rev (10200) in WOT, it wasn't stop at 8200. I don't know why is that? It was an interesting experience :D :D So this is a tuning option for crazy riders :D I have tried get an explanation from Dr. Pulley, but they had no idea neither...
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The only reason I couls see for the high RPMs if the rollers were in full reverse. This would prevent the profile to extend beyond the 20mm. Since the default is 23mm and 15.5GR this could do it. The default ramped profile lets the rollers behave like they are way larger than 23mm s othis makes up for the lighter weight and even slightly more.
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The only reason I couls see for the high RPMs if the rollers were in full reverse. This would prevent the profile to extend beyond the 20mm. Since the default is 23mm and 15.5GR this could do it. The default ramped profile lets the rollers behave like they are way larger than 23mm s othis makes up for the lighter weight and even slightly more.
Now I understand, thank you!!
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Hey Tanware, what's your top speed with the 14gr's?
I tried 2-3 runs few days ago, and couldn't get it over 90 without
the topcase (huge one), and around 86 with it.
It won't rev past 7600rpms, so I've got a bit of extra power left
there that never gets used, probably down 2-3hp in those 400 revs
to 8k. >:(
May get better with time, only have 1000 miles on the bike.
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Hey Tanware, what's your top speed with the 14gr's?
I tried 2-3 runs few days ago, and couldn't get it over 90 without
the topcase (huge one), and around 86 with it.
It won't rev past 7600rpms, so I've got a bit of extra power left
there that never gets used, probably down 2-3hp in those 400 revs
to 8k. >:(
May get better with time, only have 1000 miles on the bike.
My bike wasn't at its real power till 2000km.
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My bike wasn't at its real power till 2000km.
I'm 2-3 days from that mark, we'll see if anything changes, but I think I already feel
acceleration is better, but it still won't go over 87mph, and even that takes a while.
I guess it doesn't help that I'm 220lbs.. but still, the damn 6000km test bike with
half-worn rollers would reach 90mph on every WOT, and even beyond that sometimes.
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I'm 2-3 days from that mark, we'll see if anything changes, but I think I already feel
acceleration is better, but it still won't go over 87mph, and even that takes a while.
I guess it doesn't help that I'm 220lbs.. but still, the damn 6000km test bike with
half-worn rollers would reach 90mph on every WOT, and even beyond that sometimes.
I'm 212lbs :D :D Everybody here is a heavy rider? We should use Harleys ;D
Belive me, that few extra miles is very important. When I first sit on my bike (at 1400km) it feels like a slow snail. But I accepted it because it is a 125cc, you know. I have done the oil change, and increasingly gets better and better... And then came the rollers from Dr. Pulley, and that is another dimension...
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"It won't rev past 7600rpms, so I've got a bit of extra power left
there that never gets used, probably down 2-3hp in those 400 revs
to 8k. "
That's because your rollers are too heavy. Go 1.5-2gr lighter, and you will get those rps, and the "power" of a bigger scoot.
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I am 240+ LBS of a rider and I get usually just shy of 90 MPH. I have seen 90+ but that is not sustained as on an upgrade I will loose that. All I can say is faster than I ever want to go on a scooter.
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Oh well then I guess it's normal, especially if you can't reach 8000 either, I figured the extended
gearing at the top end would not be extreme enough to cut down the top speed, but I guess 13gr
or 13.5gr is needed to get that 5mph that's missing, but I don't want more revs below 55mph so
I'll just stick with 14gr.
The acceleration at 6500-6600 WOT seems like it should have been there in the first place.
I'm now rather sure that 15gr sliders wouldn't work all that well, and the bike would probably hit a
wall at something like 80mph @ 6500 rpm.
I wonder what a taller windscreen will do (got it on order), and I'm looking for cheap hand guards too,
if the windscreen doesn't reflect enough air from the hands (and it should).
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The air resistance at that speed probably holds us back, the 15GR would definately help if there is a tail wind. The 15GR would also help MPG a bit but I am not sure how much or if it would make up for the loss in the extra umph we get. t would definately lower RPM's all around but this can be more personal taste as the 14GR's seem to get us right on the pipe and optimal RPM range.
My personal choice is to leagve the bike at its most efficient rather than the better MPG. If it were a real torque monger the story may be different but alas it isn't. Again though for a single 300cc bike it does quite well...............
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The air resistance at that speed probably holds us back, the 15GR would definately help if there is a tail wind. The 15GR would also help MPG a bit but I am not sure how much or if it would make up for the loss in the extra umph we get. t would definately lower RPM's all around but this can be more personal taste as the 14GR's seem to get us right on the pipe and optimal RPM range.
My personal choice is to leagve the bike at its most efficient rather than the better MPG. If it were a real torque monger the story may be different but alas it isn't. Again though for a single 300cc bike it does quite well...............
Yeah, I keep telling myself that it just 300cc, and then it's performance with 14gr is really amazing.
I keep comparing it to 500cc scoots that I tried and tend to forget that there's some extra hp there,
but more importantly - more torque.
I think that 15gr sliders would make the top speed even lower.
If the bike can't rev over 7600rpms at 86-87mph now, I think we'd be lucky if it even reached
87mph with 15gr sliders, but I guess if it would, it would be at ~300 revs less then now, saving
fuel again.
Long story short, I'm sticking with 14gr, I might even consider ordering specially made 13.5gr, but
14gr seems perfect, hitting just over max torque spot (6600-6700) at WOT, and 75mph at 6500
(7000 with stock rollers) is also perfect.
Can we mix the sliders?
I know they can make the 13.5 on special order, but we could mix up 13gr and 14gr..
I guess that would equal some 200 revs more from 0 to top speed, which could result in a
higher top speed too.
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if you use 13 and 14 stagered to ballance it out you can mix them but you are better off with proper sliders as the primary load is on the 14's when you stager them. I do like the lower rev's and this would be the reason for 15GR's. I doubt we can get muck more top end. As mentioned we just do not have the torque.
With a true transmission with clutch and gears there would be less loss and the direct conection allowing both better accelleration and more top end. The problems then arise with ease of use etc.
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I just spoke with a local rider who has 13gr sliders.
He knows nothing about the revs (says he never looked at the thing once), but
swears his scoot wiil do 96-97mph indicated.
And I've seen 96mph on a test scoot with half-worn stock weights, but it was running at 8600.
That's why I figured we should get AT LEAST 92-93mph.
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You can take the cores out of your rollers/sliders to use otherwise useless parts. Knock them out, and put them in whatever. You can also fill your light rollers/sliders with solder or epoxy, and drill out the excess to get the weight you need. Rough up the barrels with 80 grit paper first.
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This question is for Tanware or Cortez. I sent an email to Paul Wu at Union Materials, the maker of DRPulley sliders. He said that the stock size of rollers for the GTi300 are 23x18. How can this be? On your threads in the Downtown 300 forum you say that you use 20x12 size sliders at 14gr weight. Are the rollers that much different in size or is he wrong. I'm a bit confused. I already ordered a set of 20x12x15gr for my 300GTi. Can you clarify this for me? Do I have the right size sliders?
modmaster
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Hi modmaster,
The People Gti is knows as Shadow in Asia so this might have led to confusion, as you can see in this link they use the 20x12 rollers and also you can find a lot of information about the experience with 14grams and 15grams
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522people%2B300%2522%2Bgti%2B%252B%2Bdr%2Bpulley%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D855%26prmd%3Dimvns&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=de&u=http://zzip.de/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D7862%26sid%3Db49e579e595ecc34c795996687c45456&usg=ALkJrhiqdve9zzLMm6n03QILJNSXg-dxmw (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522people%2B300%2522%2Bgti%2B%252B%2Bdr%2Bpulley%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D855%26prmd%3Dimvns&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=de&u=http://zzip.de/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D7862%26sid%3Db49e579e595ecc34c795996687c45456&usg=ALkJrhiqdve9zzLMm6n03QILJNSXg-dxmw)
Hope it helps
And the list of rollers by model:
http://www.drpulley.info/drpulley_docs/Typenliste.pdf (http://www.drpulley.info/drpulley_docs/Typenliste.pdf)
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This question is for Tanware or Cortez. I sent an email to Paul Wu at Union Materials, the maker of DRPulley sliders. He said that the stock size of rollers for the GTi300 are 23x18. How can this be? On your threads in the Downtown 300 forum you say that you use 20x12 size sliders at 14gr weight. Are the rollers that much different in size or is he wrong. I'm a bit confused. I already ordered a set of 20x12x15gr for my 300GTi. Can you clarify this for me? Do I have the right size sliders?
modmaster
Relax, you ordered the correct size.
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Thanks for getting back to me. WHEW! Will let you know how they work after I get a chance to install them.
modmaster
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Let me know how they work for you. I have 14g in my DT300I and I am not happy with them. I have lost top end and gas mileage as well. I am not sure if I am going to put in 15g or go back to the rollers.
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Let me know how they work for you. I have 14g in my DT300I and I am not happy with them. I have lost top end and gas mileage as well. I am not sure if I am going to put in 15g or go back to the rollers.
The DT300 has a different variator, so 15gr in the People is more or less similar to 14gr in the DT.
My top speed remained the same, or -1-2mph, and not that I'd use that speed since it was over 8000 revs
with the stock weights and that can't be healthy. You'd probably loose even more with 15gr.
And fuel consumption on mine has been fantastic, but a bit better then on yours.
Looking at your fuelly, if you have that kind of MPG figures on 90% open roads (and if it's above 60mph), you'd
have even worse with stock weights because the bike would rev more.
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If you look at my fully from last year you will see what I am talking about. Last year with the rollers in I could start out passing a car at about 60 mph and be doing 85mph when I got in front of him. Couple of days ago I passed a car doing about 60 mph and even after I was past him I still wasn't at 75mph. I am doing a trip tomorrow with it, if it is not better I will put the rollers back in on Monday. I don't care if it is running 8500 wot. My other scooter ran wot all the time on the hi way with no problem. It still runs like new with over 30000 k.
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At 60mph the stock roller bike will accelerate using torque/power available at around 5600rpms and it'll get better after
6000 and 65mph, but by the time it reaches 65, mine will be at over 70 with the 14gr pulleys.
I've done a lot of research on this, made a couple of videos of before and after and especially acceleration at speeds
between 50 and 60mph is better with the sliders. I'd even like 13gr for the WOT acceleration better, but.. it would mess
with the cruising revs at under 50mph too much.
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I have found the issue with mine from my ride yesterday. We have a lot of wind here! yesterday I rode just over 600k, if I am running 100-110kph and with wind I get really good gas milage. With winds off the front corner with all my luggage on I tend to run around 90kph and the millage is very low due to high rpm. difference of almost 20 miles per imp. gallon. I just looked today and the wind is out of the west at 34kph plus guests. It will be a nice ride into the city but a bear coming home again. It is about 50km to Saskatoon.
I am not sure how the rollers would have done yesterday but I think better at the lower speed against the wind.
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At 90km/h, you'd be looking at 500 revs less and probably a bit better fuel consumption.
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Wind is the fastest way to loose top speed and MPG. This is more exagerated on a bike like ours that is so light and running toward the extreme of available power...............
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Turns out the belt was distroyed by the sliders.
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Turns out the belt was distroyed by the sliders.
Now that I am looking at the thread, our one primary difference is load at speed. You have the bags etc and I am wondering if the belt, with the sliders, couldn't handle the load at the positions the sliders would place the variator (power and drive side) etc. Do you have a different wind screen too?
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I have a givi wind screen, givi 46l top case givi small saddle bags, and a twisted throttle seat bag. The load I was carrying should be less than a second person. I hope I can find a belt tomorrow so I will have a spare for the trip. I will carry the tools to make the change along the way if need be.
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Other than a slider shifted out of position I am not sure why it would have done this. So far this is the first instance that I had come across. I think there was one other person saying with sliders that the variator had issues but can't remember the posts and no pics............
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Other than a slider shifted out of position I am not sure why it would have done this. So far this is the first instance that I had come across. I think there was one other person saying with sliders that the variator had issues but can't remember the posts and no pics............
I believe it was Sissy Mary with the exciting 500. This could be a defective belt but it seems odd that it didn't happen in the first say 15000K. There were no cracks or damage to the belt when the sliders went in. I will have a new OEM belt tomorrow and if it stops raining long enough, I will install it. I doute I will get the bike out of here anymore this week as it is still supposed to keep raining quite hard. the roads here are just soup again!
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Other than a slider shifted out of position I am not sure why it would have done this. So far this is the first instance that I had come across. I think there was one other person saying with sliders that the variator had issues but can't remember the posts and no pics............
There are quite a few. Mine destroyed my Malossi var, and a BRAND new belt. The slider jammed, and the var could not close. By the time I got home I had 200.00 worth of junk.
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Got one of my new belts today. If it is not raining to hard when I get home I will install it. I expect the mileage and speed to come up quit a bit. I compared belt width and I can't see any so should be back to what I had before.
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would you measure the new belt is it about the same measurement as the old belt,. mitsuboshi belt size is 1004 mm. X 25.2 mm. wide with ;D 30 degree angle, joe goulet golden hawk Im just over 18,000 km. on original belt ,
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would you measure the new belt is it about the same measurement as the old belt,. mitsuboshi belt size is 1004 mm. X 25.2 mm. wide with ;D 30 degree angle, joe goulet golden hawk Im just over 18,000 km. on original belt ,
What is the part number on yours? both the old and the new are the same size but do not match your measurements. mine is 970mm out side and 24mm across. My part number is 23100-LEA7-E00. Do you have the lea7 variator?
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&yes I have a belt # 23100 LEA7-E00 on a LEA7 variator belt by mitsuboshi price is 189.95 kymco genuine part, are you getting a better price ,. this belt measures 973 mm. rolling belt on the table X 24 mm. joe goulet
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The belt for our DT is quite expensive, Malossi started selling this year a belt for the DT reference 6115277. So far I have only been able to locate them in Frace for 70 Euros + delivery. You may want to contact Malossi USA and enquire for it as it is half the price of the mitsuboshi.
link:
http://www.scootpieces.com/index.php?&categories_id=24&modeles_id=1436&modeles_type=maxi_scooter&modeles_marque=Kymco&modeles_modele=DINK%20STREET%20DOWNTOWN%20i%20300%204t%20LC (http://www.scootpieces.com/index.php?&categories_id=24&modeles_id=1436&modeles_type=maxi_scooter&modeles_marque=Kymco&modeles_modele=DINK%20STREET%20DOWNTOWN%20i%20300%204t%20LC)
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Installed it in the rain last night. Will fuel tonight after work and then start watching the mileage again. Handled well this morning with a cross wing about 25K.
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mitsoboshi measures there belts around the outside of the belt, with a soft tape it comes to 1004 mm.,. when I measured on the table I got 997 mm. same belt,.
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The belt for our DT is quite expensive, Malossi started selling this year a belt for the DT reference 6115277. So far I have only been able to locate them in Frace for 70 Euros + delivery. You may want to contact Malossi USA and enquire for it as it is half the price of the mitsuboshi.
link:
http://www.scootpieces.com/index.php?&categories_id=24&modeles_id=1436&modeles_type=maxi_scooter&modeles_marque=Kymco&modeles_modele=DINK%20STREET%20DOWNTOWN%20i%20300%204t%20LC (http://www.scootpieces.com/index.php?&categories_id=24&modeles_id=1436&modeles_type=maxi_scooter&modeles_marque=Kymco&modeles_modele=DINK%20STREET%20DOWNTOWN%20i%20300%204t%20LC)
..and will probably fail in 1/3 of the miles.
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Just ordered a set and thought I would bump the thread. Got them here for $40 shipped:
http://www.partsforscooters.com/169-290_Dr_Pulley_Roller_Weights?ext=F (http://www.partsforscooters.com/169-290_Dr_Pulley_Roller_Weights?ext=F)
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Their prices, and shipping are the best I have found. Very good resource.
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I saw a video on the youtube. They put 4 heavier, and 4 lighter roller in the variator same time.
What is the point of that?? How do they know which weights are good to combine?
What changes will come out of this (compared to "one weighted" Pulley rollers)?
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I seen that to,. I think it was a racing team that was trying out differant Wts. to see if they could get higher speeds,. and the Wt spread was 1/2 gram,
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I've just finished the topic.
I see, I need a 14gr roller to my DT.
But I have two question:
- I didn't understand perfectly the two kind of variator matter... I have a 2011/05 bike. How can I know which variator do I have? Does it matter?
- We always talk about the roller weights. Why don't we change the size of the rollers? That is affect just as much as the weight, isn't is?
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you have the same scoot I have,. the next model is 2012, when you take the variator apart you will see the printing lea-7 or lge5, I have not seen the two parts myself but cortez has mentioned them before, it may be the difference in the ramps, the next order I make I will order one just to see the difference,. # 2
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If you check the supply places the only one that fit is 20/12 x wt.s 13,. 14,. 15,. they dont make a 22/12,. if you find one that makes them let us know,.
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you have the same scoot I have,. the next model is 2012, when you take the variator apart you will see the printing lea-7 or lge5, I have not seen the two parts myself but cortez has mentioned them before, it may be the difference in the ramps, the next order I make I will order one just to see the difference,. # 2
But is it matter which variator I have when I will order the rollers? I don't want to take apart just for see the factory number :(
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it is the same rollers or sliders for both variators ,.
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it is the same rollers or sliders for both variators ,.
Cool! This is an answer!! :D
I hurry to order :D
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adept have you tryed the sliders yet, or are you sssnowed in,. I went to sliders and back to rollers , my problem was a long belt 1010 mm. x 25.2 mm. @ 30 % new belt is 1004 mm. and my rpm dropped 5 to 600 rpm. at 100 kmph. I will go back to sliders when it warms up again, looks like we got 6 inches of snow today so far,. should all melt by next week,.
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adept have you tryed the sliders yet, or are you sssnowed in,. I went to sliders and back to rollers , my problem was a long belt 1010 mm. x 25.2 mm. @ 30 % new belt is 1004 mm. and my rpm dropped 5 to 600 rpm. at 100 kmph. I will go back to sliders when it warms up again, looks like we got 6 inches of snow today so far,. should all melt by next week,.
I'm not really understood what you wrote about...
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Can anyone give me a link to purchase the Dr. Pulley sliders for my Downtown?
Thanks
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buggy parts nw. good supplyer,. 20/12 14 gr. dr. pulley sliders x8 pieces about 35. or 40 dollars
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Many thanks.
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Hi
I got my pack from Dr. Pulley. I put in, I rode a few km yet.
My feelings are confused, I am not sure wether i am satisfied or not. This is a completly new bike...
I try to write down my impressions exactly, sorry for my english...
My impressions with the "old" bike:
The take-off was very sudden and strong (at 2000rpm), quick response for a little throttle pull.
After take-off there is a little torque fall down.
If I want acceleration, don't need to pull WOT, just a little pull. I like that.
Between 4000-5000rpm there is a "cruise mode" for the city.
Above that the machine goes crazy till 7000rpm. :)
If I release the throttle there is a strong slowing.
With the new rollers:
The take-off is smoother, not kick-like, and it start at 3500rpm.
The torque fall down is disappeared.
If I want power and acceleration, now I have to pull WOT, and need 6000-7000rpm.
The rpm move up and down easily, like the engine become lighter and restless. If I pull a little throttle, the rpm pointer move up, then come the acceleration.
The overall acceleration is better, I must say.
The rpm goes up +500rpm.
The fuel comsumption is a secret yet.
Now the overall feeling is somehow the bike is lighter, and smoother, not like a steamengine terminator. :D :D
So, I dont't know what to think... Maybe I just need a little time to used to it. One of my half like it, but the other half miss the previous massive, strong feeling.
I would mix the two bike...
What if I mix the factory rollers and the Dr. Pulley (4-4 pieces)??
Can somebody send me 4 15-16gr rollers? :D Would it be a change?
Talk to me...
Adept
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You can mix, and experiment... you cannot really get the best of both worlds.... Maybe the first thing to consider is your riding style and the purpose of your trips.... do you race, cruise, city riding, just go from point A to point B? Is top speed your concern? For me, I would prefer the low end acceleration even though I will loose top end... I use my scoot daily city riding and I don't need top speed... Maximum of 55 mph is o.k. and I seldom even go 55... mostly 35-40... I need the quick acceleration at stop lights and overtaking cars...
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You can mix, and experiment... you cannot really get the best of both worlds.... Maybe the first thing to consider is your riding style and the purpose of your trips.... do you race, cruise, city riding, just go from point A to point B? Is top speed your concern? For me, I would prefer the low end acceleration even though I will loose top end... I use my scoot daily city riding and I don't need top speed... Maximum of 55 mph is o.k. and I seldom even go 55... mostly 35-40... I need the quick acceleration at stop lights and overtaking cars...
As I see, we are the same.
I like fast starts from stoplights, I like acceleration, I am a city/agglomeration rider, I don't care top speed at all (max 120km/h is enough), I like to cruise calmly.
So what is the good settings for me? :D
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if you have 14 gram sliders ,. you may want to try 15 gram sliders so it will not rev. up as much,. 2011 downtown
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Hi Everybody,
I wanted to share my expérience as Dink Street 300i owner with some modifications.
First excuse my english as I'm French (From New Caledonia).
Then I installed for my DS 300i the Dr pulley 14g after testing the Malossi Multivar 2000 with 18g and 15g rollers (x6). I have also Malossi contra spring & Malossi clutch springs.
Regarding 14g sliding, they are very good, at least as good as Malossi Multivar with 18g rolling.
The différence with Malossi white contra spring is revs.
I can reach 8000 right after take off, with just a 1/2 second "pause" at 6500. So I get a very good acceleration off the line, improved vivacity and no belt slippage with this. The bad points are...revs also, as spring tend to close longer the rear pulley so you stay longer in low gear ratio and have some difficuties to get high speed. Also cruising revs are higher than yours, with 5500 at 37mph or 6000 at 50mph.
I think, with my tests, that I finally found the best combination for power off the line and WOT from 5K or 6K are quite impressive. Malossi is great too but I have to re test with 17g sliding from Dr Pulley as factory Malossi rolling are crap. It will correspond roughly to 13g sliding on stock variator, i.e very sporty ones.
At the end, I will anyway buy heavier sliding rollers from Dr Pulley to put in Malossi Multivar and get low revs at mid range speed as High reving engine tend to annoy me after some time !! ;) Probably 21 or 22g (x6). And go back to stock contra spring to give some relief to the belt.
Regards,
Robin
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So I made my experiment.
I mix the factory rollers and the Dr.P.s
The result was horrible :) I got every bad attributes, and nothing good. I had the slower startup, but I got the lower rpm at the end (6500K), and the lower acceleration... So don't combine the factory and the tuning, because it is a bad mule :D
Meanwhile I got a scale, and the factory rolles are 15,4 gr in average. 8 rollers' weight between 15,38-15,42gr. I have 6000km in my scooter, and I can't see any wearing on the rollers, so I think this could be the real weight.
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Dirk (the Dr. Pulley boss) said to me, maybe I put the rollers wrong in my scooter...
How high is your max rpm at WOT with 14gr.? My is above 7000rpm... Is it okay??
I have found a video where the RPM is above 7000, but in other videos the RMP stayed at 6500 (with Dr.P of course).
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I went in for my 10K mile service and had them changed from 14GR to 13GR. Not much noticeable change but they work. I would put more miles on it but I just got a new mid-life crisis toy. It's a 2013 Nissan 370Z with a twin turbo and exhaust on the way. 500hp at the wheels will be a nice change from 28hp. ;D
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Is here somebody useing 15gr Dr. Pulley?
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I have a 2012 People GTI300. I just replaced the stock rollers with 14g Dr Pulley sliders. What's not to like? Better acceleration, less RPM at interstate speeds, and probably better mileage. I'm not sure about top end, but it still does 80+, and that's plenty fast for me.
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Adept, I have a set of brand new 15gr. sliders I can sell you for $25.00+ shipping if you would like them. I sold my GTi300 before I had a chance to install them.
modmaster
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My secret wish came true... :) Gimme a few days please. I am a middle of a moving, so I don't have a proper adress yet...
So it is a 20x12 15gr brand new Dr. Pulley??
I am in Hungary (EU), so prepare..! Can you tell me how much will be the postage?
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We'll know better when you give me a mailing address to ship to. Those are the correct size 20x12 15gr.
modmaster
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We'll know better when you give me a mailing address to ship to. Those are the correct size 20x12 15gr.
modmaster
You got a PM..
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I keep the topic alive... :D
So, from modmaster (Thanks a lot!!!) I got a 15gr Dr. Pulley rollers instead of 14gr.
I think this is my best solution for the problem.
The engine is much more calmer, don't have to keep high rpm to gain power. In the city, around 40-60km/h, it keeps the 4500-5000rmp, so you can cruise easily. But if you need power, the max rmp still a little above 7000rpm.
I think I am satisfied.
But the little devil inside me is very curious, what would happen if I order a 16gr. roller... It would be heavier than the factory rollers (15,4gr vs. 16gr), but the shape is different... I think the shape causes the max rpm increasing, and the weight causes the different engine behaving.
So If somebody have a spare 16gr roller, just send it to me... :D:D
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Hello guys. Just want to share some experience with my Dr. Pullley Sliders and rollers. First I used the 14 gram in my GTI 300. I found that they were too light. Next I tried the 15 gram and this seemeed to be the perfect combo. The 14's had too much RPM amd took a while to get to top speed with excessive RPM. The 15's seemed to be the best so far with no excessive rpm. I put a malossi tension spring in the rear and this helped a heck of alot on take off. Front wheel lifted when I smashed the twist from a complete stop. Raw power on take off.
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Hello guys. Just want to share some experience with my Dr. Pullley Sliders and rollers. First I used the 14 gram in my GTI 300. I found that they were too light. Next I tried the 15 gram and this seemeed to be the perfect combo. The 14's had too much RPM amd took a while to get to top speed with excessive RPM. The 15's seemed to be the best so far with no excessive rpm. I put a malossi tension spring in the rear and this helped a heck of alot on take off. Front wheel lifted when I smashed the twist from a complete stop. Raw power on take off.
What would you think about a 16gr Pulley roller? Worth to try?
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well when i get my 300i in the next few weeks to go along with my 500abs ri the 1st thing im going to do with the 300 is change the weights Dr. Pulley Slider Weight 20x12 for 250/300cc - 8 pack - 15g
Price: $44.95 best place to buy is Buggy parts NW been buying there for several years https://www.buggypartsnw.com/ (https://www.buggypartsnw.com/)
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Okay...
I got my 16 gr sliders. It is a bit heavy for this bike.
The 14gr for the LEA7 variator is a mistake, too light.
The final solution for me is mixing the 15 and 16gr rollers. Now it is perfect for me (for the LEA7 version!!). The bike is calm, but stays agile, the cruising rev stays as low as possible, and the hiend rev is 7500. The perfect combination. :D :D
I am a happy man now.
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Okay...
I got my 16 gr sliders. It is a bit heavy for this bike.
The 14gr for the LEA7 variator is a mistake, too light.
The final solution for me is mixing the 15 and 16gr rollers. Now it is perfect for me (for the LEA7 version!!). The bike is calm, but stays agile, the cruising rev stays as low as possible, and the hiend rev is 7500. The perfect combination. :D :D
I am a happy man now.
Finally I finished reading this long thread, very helpful information for whoever wants to play with sliders.
I have read lots of posts on both Taiwan and US DT owner's group. Seems like Dr. P. 15g slider would be better in terms of lower rev for all speed range (compare to 14g).
I ride my DT on interstate daily for about 1 hour round trip, and I tend to maintain my speed between 70 to 85mph. With all stock setting, I can reach 70mph@6000rpm, 80mph@7000rpm, tops around 92mph@8000-ish rpm.
So, based on previous conclusion, I should probably go with 15g slider, but wait!!
Now I saw someone's selling 15.5g slider (on Taiwanese eBay sort of site) and guess what?
I got a friend coming to the states from TW soon, so I can ask him to bring in the 15.5g sliders...
Adept, could you share more about the difference between all 15g and 15+16g setting?
If I do two up riding, which side should I go for? Heavier or lighter sliders?
Any comment will be greatly appreciated
P.S: My DT was made in Jan, 2013. With LEA7 clutch assembly (the rear part, you know), but my dealer replaced it with the LGE5 version around 4k miles. I believe my variater is LEA7 version.
Ride safe,
J
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You fellas should NEVER mix roller/slider weights. That causes the heavier weights to do all the work, and the light ones just float around. It causes premature wear to everything in the variator.
The only time it is acceptable to mix weights is short test drives to dial in the correct weight.
In this case 15.5. I would never ride more than a mile w/ mixed weights.
There are several posts here, and other sites that back this up.
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You fellas should NEVER mix roller/slider weights. That causes the heavier weights to do all the work, and the light ones just float around. It causes premature wear to everything in the variator.
The only time it is acceptable to mix weights is short test drives to dial in the correct weight.
In this case 15.5. I would never ride more than a mile w/ mixed weights.
There are several posts here, and other sites that back this up.
Agreed, I just saw a thread on Taiwanese forum about the side/bad effect of mixing different weights. However, the 15.5g slider I mentioned are actually 16g version, they just grind out .5 grams to make it a 15.5g slider, maybe it's not a good idea because I don't know how they grind it (isn't it true that slider has special shape and weight distribution so we should not modify it in any way?)
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Grinding or drilling out the cores is fine. Use a postage scale, and you will be fine.
As long as they all weigh the same.
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Grinding or drilling out the cores is fine. Use a postage scale, and you will be fine.
As long as they all weigh the same.
Thanks Zombie,
Looks like the seller is edging those sliders to make it 15.5g, would that be okay?
I have attached the link to the item although all descriptions are in Mandarin lol
http://goods.ruten.com.tw/item/show?21303065168757 (http://goods.ruten.com.tw/item/show?21303065168757)
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I order parts from all over the globe. Google Translate. https://translate.google.com
15.5 sounds like the general consensus for your bike but only you will know if they are right for you. Lots of fellas here sell/swap their rollers if they do not suit your needs.
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Thanks zombie, I'll go for the 15.5g first, will post my feedback after I ride on it. Happy 4th oh July.
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Hi
Yes the 15,5gr is the best... I think Dr. Pulley is making special roller weights. Try to order a 15,5gr roller from them...
16gr is make the engine to slow. Worse than the factory values.
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Hi
Yes the 15,5gr is the best... I think Dr. Pulley is making special roller weights. Try to order a 15,5gr roller from them...
16gr is make the engine to slow. Worse than the factory values.
@Adept
So nice to hear from you, since you are the one who tried many different settings.
Would you think 15.5g is still a good idea for two up riding? (Im 180lbs, and my speed limiter is 120lbs)
I already ordered the 15.5g but if 15g would be better then I will order both :)
Have a nice weekend.
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@Adept
So nice to hear from you, since you are the one who tried many different settings.
Would you think 15.5g is still a good idea for two up riding? (Im 180lbs, and my speed limiter is 120lbs)
I already ordered the 15.5g but if 15g would be better then I will order both :)
Have a nice weekend.
I am 220lbs and my "fuel chicken" (lazy translation from hungarian :D) is 120lbs too.
With two person I think you won't feel the difference the two kind of weights.
IMHO you must set the best with one rider.
My next roller will be 15,5gr. The mixing is a dead-end (Zombie got the point!!)
Report if you got the roller!!!
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I am 220lbs and my "fuel chicken" (lazy translation from hungarian :D) is 120lbs too.
With two person I think you won't feel the difference the two kind of weights.
IMHO you must set the best with one rider.
My next roller will be 15,5gr. The mixing is a dead-end (Zombie got the point!!)
Report if you got the roller!!!
@Adept:
Haha, fuel chicken, that's a good one 8)
I will report back with the result of 15.5 slider once I put them on, been too busy to work on my bike recently, but I will make sure to share my two cents.
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How did they make the 15,5gr roller? Drill out a 0,5gr?
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How did they make the 15,5gr roller? Drill out a 0,5gr?
@Adept,
I wonder how they made it, too.
According to the answer from my seller, they edged out 0.5g from the 16g sliders.
Not sure how/where the "edged" the slider but seems like many people also used this setting in Taiwan so I decided to give it a try.
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Now I got the inspiration from you!!
I have a 16gr roller set... I will look for a man who make me a 15,5gr roller.
:D :D :D
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Someone here suggested a dremel tool, and a small grinding bit. I think it was B&L
Get a postage scale at Staples/WalMart, and simply shave off a bit of the inside brass core. TINY bits, and check.
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Should I be so brave?? I am not sure...
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Absolutely! All you are doing is cutting out metal. It is brass, and almost soft enough to cut w/ a sharp knife.
If a dremel tool intimidates you Use a rat tail file. Just file a few strokes, and weigh the slider. You can do it.
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zombie's got the point, as always
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I just figure if you never try THEN you can't do it.
I try to do everything myself. I've been blown up/burned/buried/squashed/thrown/all out flattened/electrocuted/sliced/shot/dragged/trampled/bit/hit/spit at/run over.
A roller doesn't scare me.
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mr. Z sounds like you have been married
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 3 times ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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just look up dr, pulley on line they have a good vidio
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yeah, search dr. pulley slider on youtube and you see lots of related videos.
if you want to see a setp-by-step walkthrough, here's a like to one of the Taiwanese forum. You don't have to understand Chinese to read it, just look at those photo
http://forum.jorsindo.com/thread-2311255-1-1.html (http://forum.jorsindo.com/thread-2311255-1-1.html)
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There is also a Picture on every package they sell. Nothing to fear mate!
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Quiz.
Can you see something strange on this picture???
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This is my 16gr roller set. Take a look to the inner copper ring... They two kind of size, but the same weigth. I checked all the 8 rollers with a gramm-scale. They are between 15,91 and 16,01gr...
Any idea??
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My guess is they are different recycled alloys containing different density metals. CHINA baby.
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that makes sense.
Dr. Pulley sliders are selling on many Taiwanese eBay-like website for just $20/set,
it's not too difficult to guess the cost for manufacturing those sliders
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3 cents worth of plastic including the case, 20 cents for the metal, and perhaps 1.5 cents for the paper/printing.
Add in the rice for labor, and I guess they cost less than a dollar complete per roller.
You know the Chinese are laughing at us. We buy all their crap. It all breaks. Then we go to all the trouble to sort/recycle/ship it all back to them. In essence we are working for them, and destroying our manufacturing base.
White people are soooo f'n stupid.
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It's been a couple thousand miles since I had my 14g's replaced by some 12g's. Just checked my milege and I'm getting 69.3 which is just under a mile or so I got with the 14g's. 60mph is right at 6k rpm and 70mph is at 7k rpm. Runs great and snappy off the line.
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Here you are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Md_75ehtdo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Md_75ehtdo) (my boy was the camera man)
Thanks for the inspiration to everybody... Really it wasn't so bad (THX to Zombie) I got the Dremmel and the gramm-scale.
Now all the rollers exactly 15,5gr (the factory weight is 15,43gr). Very easy to set the exact weight, so easily make it more lighter with a 0,1gr...
I will install them tomorrow.
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Way to go sir! It's you guys that are the hero's here. Anyone that takes the time to record/upload, and post How To videos are the real champs in my book.
Plus I have to give credit to B&L for the dremel idea (pretty sure it was him). I used t attack rollers w/ hammers, and drills.
I'd either punch out the cores, and force them into other rollers of fling them all over the shop out of the drill press. Who would have thought you could tickle them into submission!
You opened a new door for the maxi scoot guys by showing how simple it is. Thanks!
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Thanks for the video Adept! Very useful.
It took me 2 days to read through this thread. Just couldn't do it in one run.
Loads of info. But I still don't know what kind of variator I've got nor how to find it out without taking the bike apart. It's a 2011 DT300i but I dont't know which month it was made. Is there a place I can find this info? On the bike perhaps?
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The inside of the cover case of the variator (and clutch) there is the marking (LEA7or LGE5). It is not a magic to take is off... If you won't take down the variator, you don't need a special tool.
If it was 2011,almost sure that is LEA7.
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You can also email your serial number (VIN) to Kymco USA, and they will tell you what month.
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Nice video, Adept.
Just got my 15.5g slider today, I'm going to get a impact wrench tomorrow to take off the drive face plate, etc.
I have seen from other thread that I will need a 19mm socket and no need to use the special tool (universal holder) if I got a impact wrench.
Will post more details once I got my hands on it.
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Zactlee right. Just beware of any sharp edges on the case, and you might want to wear a glove. Get yourself a tube of Blue Lok-Tite to use when you replace the nut. A few cents can save a grand or so.
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Zactlee right. Just beware of any sharp edges on the case, and you might want to wear a glove. Get yourself a tube of Blue Lok-Tite to use when you replace the nut. A few cents can save a grand or so.
Thanks, Zombie!!! I have attached the related page I found on the service manual.
It mentioned to apply oil on the drive face nut??
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and here's another page of the manual, just FYI
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Thanks, Zombie!!! I have attached the related page I found on the service manual.
It mentioned to apply oil on the drive face nut??
In this case do NOT apply oil. Reason is the Var, and clutch nuts are a specialty item. They are capture nuts meant for one time use. They are kind of squished oblong from the factory, and will gall the threads if installed dry.
You will be re-using them so the locking they do has been undone. Lok-Tite is really what you need. Blue, and not red.
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In this case do NOT apply oil. Reason is the Var, and clutch nuts are a specialty item. They are capture nuts meant for one time use. They are kind of squished oblong from the factory, and will gall the threads if installed dry.
You will be re-using them so the locking they do has been undone. Lok-Tite is really what you need. Blue, and not red.
Thanks again, Zombie. Really don't know what to do without you :)
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It's all good for sure.
I have a friend that really cares about people, and he also knows how to make a buck (or six).
He has asked me a hundred times to join his "Lifestyle Design" site. The idea is anything you need you go there, and for a nominal fee someone there will help you accomplish almost anything.
It just wouldn't feel right for me, but it is tempting...
The site is not built yet so I have time... Maybe a 50/50 split of proceeds to some revolving charities type deal would ease the burden. http://www.allthingsdesign.org/leadin.mp4 (http://www.allthingsdesign.org/leadin.mp4)
Thinking out loud, again
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Ok, it's time for me to update and ask :)
I got the 15.5g Dr. Pulley slider a while ago, but I have heard a transmission "tune-up" would restore some power and reduce rattling/shaking
So, in order to have a fair comparison between Dr. Pulley sliders and stock rollers, I decided to perform a tune-up today.
The so called "Tune-up" is very simple, just clean up the inner part of clutch (movable drive) face with some brake cleaner
and most important, to re-surface the glazed clutch shoe with sand paper to have better and smoother grip
The whole process is about 1 and 1/2 hour or so, not very difficult, I strongly recommend everyone to do this tune-up if you have appropriate tools.
Now the bike feels faster from 0 - 70 mph, the low rpm rattling/shaking is gone (or minimal) even at 3~4k rpm, and somehow quieter.
One question,
After I took out the drive face assembly out, seems like there's four holder keeping the ramp from moving and I just couldn't take the ramp plate apart :(
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d0nxzy2i99ut1or/AAB_5nTrLbqaB9V7KfBg8CNAa/Transmission%20Service/2014-07-17%2020.02.23.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d0nxzy2i99ut1or/AAB_5nTrLbqaB9V7KfBg8CNAa/Transmission%20Service/2014-07-17%2020.02.23.jpg)
Any idea or suggestions?
I also upload all related photo to my dropbox, here's the link:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d0nxzy2i99ut1or/AAAth52Mx2FJrzNgbY3_HUFea/Transmission%20Service (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/d0nxzy2i99ut1or/AAAth52Mx2FJrzNgbY3_HUFea/Transmission%20Service)
Will update after I put on those Dr. Pullry sliders :)
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I'm not sure I understand the problem. What I do is install the drive boss into the front of tha Var, and use that to push out the ramp plate. They can be stiff but in reality they should just fall out.
Two things to look for here as well. The drive boss should spin free on the crank shaft w/ NO wobble or side clearance, and the same goes for the fit inside the var. There should be no wobble or side clearance.
If there is you have to replace the boss, and the var.
After you get the ramp out try turning it to a new alignment to get a free movement. If it still jams up you may have bent the aluminum guides from use. Again the var may need replacement or at least a bit of polishing up on those guides to give free movement.
I hope some of this helps...
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So, I finally got a time to put on those 15.5g sliders.
Thanks Zombie, I used the way you mentioned, and it comes out easily.
I also checked as you mentioned, so far no wobble and side clearance :)
My detailed report can be find in another thread (post#38)
http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=5581.38 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=5581.38)
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Hello! I am a new member of this forum and new owner of Downtown 300i.
Everyone here are speaking about Dr. Pulley sliding rollers, but you are all calling them sliders even sliders, as I understand, are that 4 plastic pieces that are adviced to be installed with 8 Dr. Pulley sliding rollers.
My question is about this plastic sliders. I want to change them as well, but do I really need to put Dr. Pulley's sliders? Problem is that this four plastic pieces of Dr. Pulley are 22 euros, and I believe the price for genuine Kymco is much lower. Or, am I wrong? Will I lose something if I put or leave "ordinary" sliders?
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You will need the 8 sliders. I prefer the 14gr as then you will gain 500 or so RPM under power take off. Once cruising at highway speeds the actual RPM is lowered over the stock rollers. With the 15GR you still will get slight increase in RPM under power and a much lower RPM at speed.
The 14GR seems to keep the best possible power band available at all times. Now these will never be a hot rod, nor a wheel stander, but I can attest the bike is much better ride with the sliders. it is much easier to also out accelerate local traffic as well. I have even found it better at rolling acceleration for those times you need to pass local traffic too.
at 12MPH I find the clutch disengages and allows the bike to roll without the engine slowing it down. I am always conscious of this as I watch to be sure it coasts unencumbered without an drag. The more freely it coasts without having drag the better the MPG and general performance of the bike. The biggest improvement I noticed with this is switching the gear oil to Royal Purple synthetic oil in the FD.
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I was actually speaking about this:
http://drpulley.shopnix.de/product_info.php?products_id=33 (http://drpulley.shopnix.de/product_info.php?products_id=33)
But, as I asked my local dealer, people don't usually change this plastic sliders. Obviously they last very long. So I won't bother.
I have another question, but I will open a new topic for this, because I need answer soon.
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I was actually speaking about this:
http://drpulley.shopnix.de/product_info.php?products_id=33 (http://drpulley.shopnix.de/product_info.php?products_id=33)
But, as I asked my local dealer, people don't usually change this plastic sliders. Obviously they last very long. So I won't bother.
From what I've read those are suppose to fit better than the OE ones reducing slop and noise
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I never changed mine out. When I put in the sliders I left the stock ones in.
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Hello
I want to try 15g DrPulley Weights but unsure about the size.
Is it 20x12 for mine to?
I have a DT 300i made in January 13
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My DT is a 200. Would the weights be the same for mine as with the 300's?
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Hello
I want to try 15g DrPulley Weights but unsure about the size.
Is it 20x12 for mine to?
I have a DT 300i made in January 13
2011 downtown 85,000 Km. 20/12 15 gram sliders are the right ones ,. for all around touring rides,. 14 gram for jockeys for faster take off,s de dee
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My DT is a 200. Would the weights be the same for mine as with the 300's?
I sent a question to dr.pulley in germany and got the answer the next day.
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2011 downtown 85,000 Km. 20/12 15 gram sliders are the right ones ,. for all around touring rides,. 14 gram for jockeys for faster take off,s de dee
Thank you de dee
15g it is!
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Does anyone know where to buy 20/12 15 gram genuine! sliders in europe or asia?
I found this guy, and they look genuine, but quite expensive with postage. Or is that what you pay? (43usd)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dr-Pulley-Sliding-Roller-20x12-15g-8pcs-for-KYMCO-Downtown-300-ie-4T-moped-/232064974710 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dr-Pulley-Sliding-Roller-20x12-15g-8pcs-for-KYMCO-Downtown-300-ie-4T-moped-/232064974710)
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Does anyone know where to buy 20/12 15 gram genuine! sliders in europe or asia?
I found this guy, and they look genuine, but quite expensive with postage. Or is that what you pay? (43usd)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dr-Pulley-Sliding-Roller-20x12-15g-8pcs-for-KYMCO-Downtown-300-ie-4T-moped-/232064974710 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dr-Pulley-Sliding-Roller-20x12-15g-8pcs-for-KYMCO-Downtown-300-ie-4T-moped-/232064974710)
I asked the same question when I searched a place to buy. After all I bought from the original site:
http://drpulley.shopnix.de/index.php?cPath=47_50 (http://drpulley.shopnix.de/index.php?cPath=47_50)
It is not to much of a difference in price, but it is always better to order from the manufacturer. Sellers on ebay somethimes make a mistake and can send the wrong item size.
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I asked the same question when I searched a place to buy. After all I bought from the original site:
http://drpulley.shopnix.de/index.php?cPath=47_50 (http://drpulley.shopnix.de/index.php?cPath=47_50)
It is not to much of a difference in price, but it is always better to order from the manufacturer. Sellers on ebay somethimes make a mistake and can send the wrong item size.
You are probaly right 🖒
But now after reading this thread 3 times im more insure what weight to buy...
14 or 15 gram
I am 235lbs and drive 40minutes to work where 30minutes are city and 10min highway and i dont drive faster then 65miles/our.
What should i choose?
I want smooth, quite fast takeoff ,
and a calm engine, im not a speedfreak 😄
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Ok, i bought it from http://drpulley.shopnix.de/index.php?cPath=47_50 (http://drpulley.shopnix.de/index.php?cPath=47_50)
I took the 15g, hope they will be fine next week
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can anyone find me dr pulley 20x12x18gr? or tech pulley 20x12x19gr?
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I purchased 20x12x15g sliders from this company, scooterpartsco.com. It looks like they only have up to 15grams listed on their website, but if your struggling you could email scooterpartsco.com and see if they can order some heaver ones for you?
I'm very happy with the 15grams sliders in the bike. It's so smooth at all rev ranges.