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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Forbes1964 on April 26, 2016, 09:43:20 AM
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I wonder how great of an untapped market exists for scooters, especially the mid and large sized ones. I'm 51, and until I stumbled across my Xciting 250 and made an impulse purchase, I never even knew that scooters EXISTED other than the small "toys" I saw students riding to and from college campuses in my area. (Tallahassee, Florida). From what I see, there is ZERO marketing. And most people are just as ignorant as I was. My family was PETRIFIED when I told them that I had purchased a SCOOTER at all since we live in a rural area. And they thought I had lost my mind when I told them that I MIGHT ride it 50 miles to work. Why? Because they knew of the little scoot scoots they encountered which "old men and college students" rode which were "holding up traffic". It was not until they SAW it that their fears were calmed. Their reaction--- "OH, THAT'S MORE LIKE A MOTORCYCLE!". And my six siblings range in age from 56 to 64. My mother is 84. None of them had ever seen a larger scooter.
That's been the reaction of nearly EVERYONE who I have encountered. Even other SCOOTER OWNERS never knew that highway capable scooters existed. Many now say that they want one too.
That leaves me to realize that the manufacturers and dealers are making a HUGE MISTAKE by depending ENTIRELY on word of mouth. Some well placed print and TV ads could potentially reach an untapped market and increase sales. Potential market---- anyone who wants to ride on two wheels, but finds a motorcycle to be intimidating. Those who live in rural areas and need something capable of 50+ mph. City dwellers who want something they can ride beyond the confines of 35 mph city streets. Those who want to ride , but just don't want to be "that guy" on the loud Harley.
Side note, kids think I'm "cool". And women see a guy who's just a LITTLE bit adventurous, but not a rebel😎😎
Just the ramblings of a middle aged man. Who until December 2015 had NEVER noticed a maxi or even a mid sized scooter. Bet and win, People, Grand vista, Xciting, Burgman, Reflex, Morpheus, Helix, Or even the Chinese copies are Brand new words to me. And I don't live under a rock.
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We don't buy scooters in the US.
Of course you'd never know it riding around here.
Those that do, for the most part, are hobbyists. throw in the fact that most maxis are the price of some fine cycles AND the dealers will steer one away from the scooters as fast as possible and the sales fail.
Years ago Honda made an attempt to run TV spots for the hip of the day and that to failed. Japan's big three have scoots but don't give a rats ass if they sell here. Also most dealers tech depts have little clue to how to fix them.
Unless there's a huge change in the thought process scoots have there niche and that's about it.
AMAC
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We don't buy scooters in the US.
Of course you'd never know it riding around here.
Those that do, for the most part, are hobbyists. throw in the fact that most maxis are the price of some fine cycles AND the dealers will steer one away from the scooters as fast as possible and the sales fail.
Years ago Honda made an attempt to run TV spots for the hip of the day and that to failed. Japan's big three have scoots but don't give a rats ass if they sell here. Also most dealers tech depts have little clue to how to fix them.
Unless there's a huge change in the thought process scoots have there niche and that's about it.
AMAC
I mostly agree. But there's a HUGE potential market if they simply TRY, ESPECIALLY with the mid-sized and maxi scooters. When I saw the Burgman, I was impressed. It's luxurious.
A half smart marketing person can make comparisons with motorcycles and highlight the advantages--shiftless transmission which few motorcycles offer (for now). BUILT IN storage. Generally better maneuverability especially at lower speeds, and EASIER to mount and dismount.
Remember, the baby boomers are getting older. Many don't have the flexibility to mount and dismount a cycle. But can do so on a scooter due to its lower floor.
Put some well known celebrity in the commercial. A cute female, or a man to attract women riders . Scooters are great. And I know that if I reached the age of 51 having NEVER known of the Maxi or even mid sized scooter's existence, there are PLENTY others. And some, like myself will try AND buy.
This is America. Folks can usually sell us ANYTHING if they try. Lol.
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At 66, I think scooters are cool too and have owned many of the big Maxiscooters. But I am a minority here in East Texas as scooters are few and mostly looked down upon by motorcyclists. Like Rodney Dangerfield says; can't get no respect. The dealer's pander to profit and there's not allot of demand (yet) for scooters. However that's subject to change. Just wait until we get back to $4 plus for gas.
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Here in the USA marketing is definetly lacking, but another issue is dealer network outside large cities are few and far between.
Don't let the size of scooters fool you. They are capable machines. Iron butt comes to mind and adventure riders. Small frame scooters have gone from the North Pole to the South Pole, accross the contienent of Africa and so many other places. Sadly the lack of marketing by all manufactures have keep people in the dark about these wonderful 2 wheeled transportations.
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I did some reading yesterday of comparisons of big scooters to similar sized motorcycles because of this post. I don't see the advantage of a big scooter over a motorcycle. I like my 50cc scooter because I can park it legally amy where I can park a bicycle and registration is only $6 for three years. If I couldn't park on the sidewalk, I'd have a medium sized motorcycle instead.
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I did some reading yesterday of comparisons of big scooters to similar sized motorcycles because of this post. I don't see the advantage of a big scooter over a motorcycle. I like my 50cc scooter because I can park it legally amy where I can park a bicycle and registration is only $6 for three years. If I couldn't park on the sidewalk, I'd have a medium sized motorcycle instead.
It's for those of us that don't have a 32" inseam (seems most bikes that aren't choppers at too tall) other like the step through, those of us who don't want to clutch/shift (particularly in stop/go traffic or simply don't know how/have never done it), and like the integrated storage (I can fit two helmets, a helmet and other gear, or even a 5 gallon NATO can under the seat of my Burgman 650) without having to buy it. I find a lot of older riders who aren't so flexible anymore love them. I've not been much interested in a shifting bike less it be a BMW K1600 GT/GTL. I think they need to make more dual clutch bikes otherwise it's twist and go for me.
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I did some reading yesterday of comparisons of big scooters to similar sized motorcycles because of this post. I don't see the advantage of a big scooter over a motorcycle. I like my 50cc scooter because I can park it legally amy where I can park a bicycle and registration is only $6 for three years. If I couldn't park on the sidewalk, I'd have a medium sized motorcycle instead.
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I understand your point. But just as there are those like you who don't see the point of a large scooter, there are others (like me) who see a large scooter as more versatile. While the demand for large scooters may never rival that of various types of motorcycles, I believe a SIGNIFICANT number would make that choice if they knew it existed.
I MAY buy a motorcycle one day. But I most definitely will buy another large scooter. Companies such as Kymco, And Honda make great dependable 50cc scooters that have much life left when the college student is finished with them. They could market themselves as a stair step company with products for everyone at every stage of life. One reason college students abandon scooters is partly because their introduction is a cheap Chinese 4 year, 4000 mile scooter that's high maintenance and unreliable. But if their first experience is more positive, they may be open to moving "upmarket" .
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My Kymco dealer sells Guinune and Kymco in addition to the 695.00 Chinese scooters. He actually has a Downtown in stock. So people can actually SEE what an ALMOST maxi scooter looks like. But he doesn't have it prominently displayed out front. He does have the likes, and the Gt300 on display.
He didn't even have the used Xciting that I purchased on display. In fact, it didn't even have a BATTERY in it.. He had a well worn Sym city out front. And when I sat on it and seemed hesitant, he mentioned the 2009 Xciting. I had to wade through his other scooters to get to it. I was sold simply by SITTING on it told him to get it running, and I'd be back. The rest is history. No, not everyone will respond as I did. But I bought it as soon as I found that it EXISTED. I'm sure others could be brought into the fold with even MINOR marketing.
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Mey Kymco dealer sells Guinune and Kymco in addition to the 695.00 Chinese scooters. He actually has a Downtown in stock. So people can actually SEE what an ALMOST maxi scooter looks like. But he doesn't have it prominently displayed out front. He does have the likes, and the Gt300 on display.
(Snip)
I agree I've always said if it's not on the shelf you can't sell it.
I'm spoiled as my local dealer, multiple locations, sells Kymco, SYM/Lance ,Genuine and a few China scoots. They have every model in stock most in multiple colors. On the floor today was the entire Kymco line right up to the MYROAD that has sat and sat and sat.........
Most of their sales are 150cc or less. They do sell a bunch of SYM HD200 and Kymco 300s but that's not their meat and potatoes. The 500 and MYROAD just sit and get discounted. Lots of choices at those price points.
I'll be a buyer of the K50 if it ever comes to the states. I'm a big Kymco fan and would drop the $$$ for the right big maxi. That said no matter how nice it is it will die on the vine here.
AMAC
They have
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Miss this rascal...
(http://i68.tinypic.com/1z3mrsg.jpg)
I agree - 2 wheelers in general need more advertising .
Most of you are too young to remember how Honda single-handedly worked to make motorcycles a cool, refreshing family fun bit of transport.
"You meet the nicest people on a HONDA !" was their advertising genius to undo the gang stigma of motorcycling.....or the loud, leaking British bikes that were so undependable.
They ran TV ads and magazine ads - and frankly I think it worked great....they sold 'em to us!
If Honda ever decided to start up advertising as refreshing and stylish as they did decades ago - I firmly believe that they could sell bikes and scooters again in a big way.
I got a kick out of this young lady.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb0VZen7FXs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb0VZen7FXs)
But this is a cool....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZOGlgVldAs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZOGlgVldAs)
And of course the John Travolta Honda ad....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1CuZRPM0Aw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1CuZRPM0Aw)
And, maybe the best advertisement I've ever seen.....with the best music IMHO.....
Fascinating read re. how two young American fellows sold this film to the HONDA reps. They loved it , saying, "THAT is the scooter we want to sell!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkXxFCu7kPI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkXxFCu7kPI)
Stig
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Kymco maxi scoots are not designed for anyone over 5'7" tall. Fix that issue and sales just might improve.
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Kymco maxi scoots are not designed for anyone over 5'7" tall. Fix that issue and sales just might improve.
It's kinda weird on the MyRoad. You need to be 6 foot with a 32" inseam to reach the ground flat footed at stops without being on your tippy toes and yet to need to be short 5 foot 5 inches with a 28" inseam or less for the riding/seating to be comfortable. I agree that Kymco should spend some time making the bike fit the market and yet the MyRoad was introduced in 2008 in some markets to the same complaints of ergonomics yet they have made no changes (mine is a 2014). I really do not understand these companies. I mean your in business to make/sell as many of these things you can or be the best I would think, yet it's like no one cares. Give me control of the companies products and we can out do them all!
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Kymco maxi scoots are not designed for anyone over 5'7" tall. Fix that issue and sales just might improve.
. I find it interesting that the Xciting, which is a near maxi scooter seems to have much better seats than the larger My Road. It makes absolutely ZERO sense that the largest scooter has one of the least comfortable driving position for the 5'8" plus person.
Having said that, the MAIN problem is that folks are TOTALLY unaware of their existence.
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It's kinda weird on the MyRoad. You need to be 6 foot with a 32" inseam to reach the ground flat footed at stops without being on your tippy toes and yet to need to be short 5 foot 5 inches with a 28" inseam or less for the riding/seating to be comfortable. I agree that Kymco should spend some time making the bike fit the market and yet the MyRoad was introduced in 2008 in some markets to the same complaints of ergonomics yet they have made no changes (mine is a 2014). I really do not understand these companies. I mean your in business to make/sell as many of these things you can or be the best I would think, yet it's like no one cares. Give me control of the companies products and we can out do them all!
What kind of "genius" manages to make a SEAT that is both too tall AND too cramped for the same person. It's a special kind of stupidity.
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It SEEMS like the market is untapped. Scooters make a great deal of sense in the American market, but no one has found the formula to sell them. The wave of awful generic chinese imports hurt the idea of the scooter, and the stigma that all riders are actually DUI's on suspended licenses keeps some people from showing interest.
Kymco builds a great machine but seemingly has no earthly idea how to name its machines. Myroad, Bet and Win, People.. terrible marketing. Sym went through its importer drama and will take a long time to repair, plus there is the Lance/Sym confusion. The Symba was a great idea, but now discontinued. TGB is back.. once again. Of all the Taiwanese scooters I see in my town that I can identify, its generally Genuine Buddies, but the local BMW/Triumph dealer just started carrying Kymco so that might change locally. I don't think any marketing revolution in America would come via Taiwan.
Vespa people are Vespa people. The world doesn't seem to be suddenly making multitudes more of them.
There needs to be a UJM of scooters. Powerful enough to get on the freeway when needed, cheap enough for anyone to buy if they save a few months or have remotely decent credit, and looks really good on its own right, not pretending to be a Vespa and not looking like someone had it shipped in a crate. I Piaggio BV350 and the Honda Forza 300 get pretty close, if not perfect to that idea. But how often do you see them on the road? I think the market is pretty well tapped.
Maybe as batteries get even better and wheel hub motor prices come down we'll see cheap fast electric scooters really get their chance to be more than toys. That might have an effect. Some states have some pretty good tax rebates so that could cause some movement in the market.
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27.....
That's the number of scoots over 50cc I passed just running around town today. Maybe 20 miles total.
Even passed a Tmax and thats a rare sighting even down here.
Geography has a ton to do with it as does economics.
Here in NE Florida a scooter is not seen as a DUI mobile it's seen as legit transportation. This isn't the big money resort type town it's wotkimg people and at rush hour it's scooters of all makes.
When I had my place at the jersey shore you would think you'd see a few scoots. Nada it was only me.
AMAC
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27.....
That's the number of scoots over 50cc I passed just running around town today. Maybe 20 miles total.
Even passed a Tmax and thats a rare sighting even down here.
Geography has a ton to do with it as does economics.
Here in NE Florida a scooter is not seen as a DUI mobile it's seen as legit transportation. This isn't the big money resort type town it's wotkimg people and at rush hour it's scooters of all makes.
When I had my place at the jersey shore you would think you'd see a few scoots. Nada it was only me.
AMAC
I just stare and daydream of living in a state where all you need is a rain poncho under the seat for year around commuting to work!
This happens for 2 weeks every June when I visit my mother in StPete Beach.
90% of them are Chinese no namers.....and a few others. NEVER anything bigger than a Chinese 250.
The highways are stupid with lousy speeding drivers - but I'd never need a car because I would not even drive a car out there with those idiots.
So jealous of those folks tooling around on scoots, all year !!
Stig
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I just stare and daydream of living in a state where all you need is a rain poncho under the seat for year around commuting to work!
This happens for 2 weeks every June when I visit my mother in StPete Beach.
90% of them are Chinese no namers.....and a few others. NEVER anything bigger than a Chinese 250.
The highways are stupid with lousy speeding drivers - but I'd never need a car because I would not even drive a car out there with those idiots.
So jealous of those folks tooling around on scoots, all year !!
Stig
Come on down we have a club full of old guys on maxi scoots. A Sunday morning and a Tuesday night ride every week. Two Thursday' "mid days" every month. Last weekend an overnighter to "The Rockets", Cape Canaveral. I wish I could make more of them.
We need more retired guys to play with!
AMAC
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I just stare and daydream of living in a state where all you need is a rain poncho under the seat for year around commuting to work!
No poncho required here in SoCal.
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At the end of last season, I almost traded my Xciting 250 in for a used Suzuki S50. I liked the idea of a bigger bike and my wife has trouble getting over the idea of me riding a "scooter" despite the size of it. When making the final analysis, I realized that the 800 cc motorcycle had no storage, no faring or windshield for weather protection, poorer gas mileage, and was noisier. The Suzuki had a better suspension, more comfortable seat, and my wife liked the look better. Fun factor was equal. I realized that it didn't make sense to spend more money on the trade and then have to spend even more money on saddle bags, a windscreen, and gas. I decided to not make the trade. The salesman asked why I changed my mind and I told him I was having just as much fun on the scooter. He then told me that he had already been planning to buy my scooter as he had never ridden one before and was shocked at how much fun it was. I saw him riding a Downtown about 10 days later...:). People need to get over the image thing and just ride what works for them.
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No poncho required here in SoCal.
Been awhile since I worked in Pasadena....but at night the air looked & smelled like I was in the Lincoln tunnel, and sky was pale gray on cloudless days......and I don't think you are supposed to see the air.
Hope things have improved since then?
In Fla. any pollution blows on over the Gulf to the drug lords in Mexico.
Stig
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Been awhile since I worked in Pasadena....but at night the air looked & smelled like I was in the Lincoln tunnel, and sky was pale gray on cloudless days......and I don't think you are supposed to see the air.
Hope things have improved since then?
In Fla. any pollution blows on over the Gulf to the drug lords in Mexico.
See that's what you get for being inland instead of along the coast where I am. The on shore breeze blows all the crap to Irwindale. Besides the air is far better now than it was in the 70's.
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I saw one scooter today as I rode to town to go to the Honda dealer to order a part for my SW. Saw one scooter only and appeared to be a Maxiscooter of about 250-400cc. Didn't recognize the make though. The Honda dealer had a Forza, Metropolitan and Ruckus and only one of each and they've been there awhile. I bought my first 2006 Burgman 650 in 2008, a model that sat in the showroom for 2 years.
Scooters are one of the best kept secrets of 2 wheeling and even burly HD guys get a smile on their face if you can get them to swallow their pride and take one for a spin.
I had a long hiatus(38) years from riding as a kid just out of High School for a few years and then got married and stopped riding. In 2008, I returned to riding and bought the Burgman and s few more Maxiscooters and jumped ship and started riding Goldwing. I became disenchanted with my last Wing and sold it and went back to another Burgman 650 Executive. And now here I am with s Honda Silverwing and P200. Wow, went full circle and loving it.
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At the end of last season, I almost traded my Xciting 250 in for a used Suzuki S50. I liked the idea of a bigger bike and my wife has trouble getting over the idea of me riding a "scooter" despite the size of it. When making the final analysis, I realized that the 800 cc motorcycle had no storage, no faring or windshield for weather protection, poorer gas mileage, and was noisier. The Suzuki had a better suspension, more comfortable seat, and my wife liked the look better. Fun factor was equal. I realized that it didn't make sense to spend more money on the trade and then have to spend even more money on saddle bags, a windscreen, and gas. I decided to not make the trade. The salesman asked why I changed my mind and I told him I was having just as much fun on the scooter. He then told me that he had already been planning to buy my scooter as he had never ridden one before and was shocked at how much fun it was. I saw him riding a Downtown about 10 days later...:). People need to get over the image thing and just ride what works for them.
America is all about IMAGE AND MARKETING. Just as Honda transformed the image of a cyclist from a scary into something that normal people could relate to, a clever marketing firm could transform the scooter rider's image into something fun but practical. The natural market would be the baby boomers who enjoy two wheeling but find the motorcycle to be a bit much. The other natural market would be the college graduate who enjoys his Chinese 50cc but wants something a little more versatile and "grown up".
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Remember back in the 70's or so, everyone knew the jingle "Kawasaki let's the Good Times roll?"
Feature a well known celebrity, a beautiful woman, or "manly" man. In a commercial. That might work
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Again, it's not that people are rejecting larger scooters, it's that they don't even know they EXIST. Only AFTER people are aware of their existence can we say whether people will accept or reject them.
Come on down we have a club full of old guys on maxi scoots. A Sunday morning and a Tuesday night ride every week. Two Thursday' "mid days" every month. Last weekend an overnighter to "The Rockets", Cape Canaveral. I wish I could make more of them.
We need more retired guys to play with!
AMAC
I wish we had the same thing in Tallahassee. Weekends are PERFECT for riding to the Golf Coast. St. George island is only an hour away. Panama City about 100 miles. Jacksonville about 150 miles. A Saturday day trip would be perfect for those of us who haven't retired.
Ideally we SHOULD be able to ride with the motorcyclist. But many of them even give a hard time to the non Harley riders. So a scooter rider wouldn't be accepted at all.
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Ideally we SHOULD be able to ride with the motorcyclist. But many of them even give a hard time to the non Harley riders. So a scooter rider wouldn't be accepted at all.
That's because they don't want to be shown up by a maxi scooter.
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That's because they don't want to be shown up by a maxi scooter.
I ride with my old group often. All HD and Goldwings. They have no problem with the scooter except when I'm leading the way. I'll aways pick a route with lots of red lights......
AMAC
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I've ridden my Maxiscooters with a Goldwing group and they're accepting of it and are impressed I can keep up with them even 2up. Maxiscooters are really motorcycles in a scooter step thru look. I generally get a wave from most bikers on my SW, however different story on the Kymco. Seems like size matters to some. Today I strapped down a plastic milk carton on the luggage rack with a 5gal. gas can for amy antique tractor. Amazing how versatile these little scoots are.
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Those of us who ride scooters know how fun, capable and versatile they are. It would seem there should be a huge untapped market but it just isn't happening. Even when people are shown how capable scooters are they still stick to whatever kind of motorcycle they already have.
I have ridden scooters with all kinds of motorcycles and people are always impressed however only one of those people that I know of actually bought a scooter as a result.
A few pics of rides I have been on with motorcycles:
My Sport City with an MV Augusta and R1:
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2013%20pics/TWoS%209-13/IMG_0596_zps7ff29179.jpg)
My Sport City with a WR250 and KLR650. I swapped bikes for a bit with the guy on the WR250 and he ended up buying a SYM RV200.
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2014%20pics/IMG_1014_zps938df1bb.jpg)
I led this group on a ride in the NC Mountains on my Sport City 250.
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2014%20pics/UTT%205-3-14/bb5b3e43-eed6-4831-b2a1-b4c7ecd80367_zps3a5de776.jpg)
I led this gaggle of bikes on my Super 8 150:
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2014%20pics/P6210020_zps3aa428bb.jpg)
Riding my Majesty with a VFR800 and Tiger800.
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2015%20pics/P9250029_zpsqe7fgybv.jpg)
I swapped bikes with the guy on the Tiger as he was considering getting a small scooter but had never ridden a scooter before. I don't know if he ended up getting one.
I have been trying hard to show people how great scooters are but it's a hard sell. It shouldn't be but it is.
One last pic. Getting ready to run through Deal's Gap with some sportbikes.
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2015%20pics/P9270020_zpsh4nwzd7x.jpg)
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Those of us who ride scooters know how fun, capable and versatile they are. It would seem there should be a huge untapped market but it just isn't happening. Even when people are shown how capable scooters are they still stick to whatever kind of motorcycle they already have.
I have ridden scooters with all kinds of motorcycles and people are always impressed however only one of those people that I know of actually bought a scooter as a result.
A few pics of rides I have been on with motorcycles:
My Sport City with an MV Augusta and R1:
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2013%20pics/TWoS%209-13/IMG_0596_zps7ff29179.jpg)
My Sport City with a WR250 and KLR650. I swapped bikes for a bit with the guy on the WR250 and he ended up buying a SYM RV200.
Perhaps they won't. But it's never been tried. As I stated earlier, VERY FEW people even know they exist. You never know what people will buy until they know it exists.
Also, one of the greatest potential markets is the -- I want to ride on two wheels but I'm intimidated by a motorcycle- group. A few nights ago a worker at a convenience store was impressed by my Xciting 250. He seemed to be in his late twenties or early thirties. He said that he'd always wanted a motorcycle but was scared. But he also didn't want something that was going to get him run over. He'd only seen the little 50cc scooters and they seemed too slow and too small and just like toys. He asked me what I paid for mine. And he thought it to be reasonable. He felt that he'd be brave enough to possibly handle something like I had. I told him about the downtown which is only slightly smaller and still in production.
He then asked where I had purchased it. He only knew of the OTHER scooter store that only sells 150cc and under Chinese scooters that's widely known due to its proximity to The 2 universities. I let him know where the REAL scooter dealer was. He even asked about how to get the motorcycle endorsement.
All that within a 15 minute conversation. Will he buy one? I don't know. But two wheels now seems to be in his thought process now.
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I've never heard of any commercials for scooters. Sometimes Honda will run one for Silverwing but more often than not it's for either it's for its From or the small 50cc scooter (can't recall the name as of this moment)
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Sometimes Honda will run one for Silverwing but more often than not it's for either it's for its From or the small 50cc scooter (can't recall the name as of this moment)
Metropolitan most likely.
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Metropolitan most likely.
It's the Ruckus I was thinking about.
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It's the Ruckus I was thinking about.
So close, lol.
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Out on a ride yesterday, trying to spread the scooter gospel but as is often the case, I'm the only one on a scooter:
(http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu171/wknudsen/2016%20PICS/P4300024_zps9vtuglis.jpg)
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Perhaps they won't. But it's never been tried. As I stated earlier, VERY FEW people even know they exist. You never know what people will buy until they know it exists.
Also, one of the greatest potential markets is the -- I want to ride on two wheels but I'm intimidated by a motorcycle- group. A few nights ago a worker at a convenience store was impressed by my Xciting 250. He seemed to be in his late twenties or early thirties. He said that he'd always wanted a motorcycle but was scared. But he also didn't want something that was going to get him run over. He'd only seen the little 50cc scooters and they seemed too slow and too small and just like toys. He asked me what I paid for mine. And he thought it to be reasonable. He felt that he'd be brave enough to possibly handle something like I had. I told him about the downtown which is only slightly smaller and still in production.
He then asked where I had purchased it. He only knew of the OTHER scooter store that only sells 150cc and under Chinese scooters that's widely known due to its proximity to The 2 universities. I let him know where the REAL scooter dealer was. He even asked about how to get the motorcycle endorsement.
All that within a 15 minute conversation. Will he buy one? I don't know. But two wheels now seems to be in his thought process now.
Ok and here's how it comes down.
The late 20-30 something walks into cycle dealer and says "show me the majesty etal" the dealer takes the kid the long way across the showroom floor, so he sees the bikes, and finds the dusty NOS scooter in the back.
After he talks down the scooter and talks up the advantage of a "real bike" .
Then He drops the big one. "For so much less money you can get a superior ride on a cycle., He talks about everything from speed to weight and why the cycle is foe you. Kid says he's intimidated by the cycle saleman explains that the risks are the same.
Kid thinks it over and never rides ......or buys a motorcycle.
Happens everyday and dealers I know are more than happy to admit it. They don't care for doing service etc on stuff they see on the rare day. People know all about maxis they just done want.
Maxis scooter are the ride of old dudes that don't want the cycle anymore.
Youngsters just see what they are. Big bloated scooters.
I know about old dudes I give the speech at least 100 times a year. Everyday 15000 boomers call it quits and head for retirement. If they want two wheels and are of able body the vast majority will pick a cycle over a scooter. Most likely a HD or Goldwings.
Just the way it is. The 200-300cc class ,IMO, is where scoots can make their mark.
AMAC
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Ok and here's how it comes down.
The late 20-30 something walks into cycle dealer and says "show me the majesty etal" the dealer takes the kid the long way across the showroom floor, so he sees the bikes, and finds the dusty NOS scooter in the back.
After he talks down the scooter and talks up the advantage of a "real bike" .
Then He drops the big one. "For so much less money you can get a superior ride on a cycle., He talks about everything from speed to weight and why the cycle is foe you. Kid says he's intimidated by the cycle saleman explains that the risks are the same.
Kid thinks it over and never rides ......or buys a motorcycle.
Happens everyday and dealers I know are more than happy to admit it. They don't care for doing service etc on stuff they see on the rare day. People know all about maxis they just done want.
Maxis scooter are the ride of old dudes that don't want the cycle anymore.
Youngsters just see what they are. Big bloated scooters.
I know about old dudes I give the speech at least 100 times a year. Everyday 15000 boomers call it quits and head for retirement. If they want two wheels and are of able body the vast majority will pick a cycle over a scooter. Most likely a HD or Goldwings.
Just the way it is. The 200-300cc class ,IMO, is where scoots can make their mark.
AMAC
No doubt it happens like you said a lot. However, there are exceptions. The Yamaha dealer where I bought my Majesty is owned by a guy who likes and has owned a few scooters. He has tried to sell scooters but they just don't sell around here. Despite this he recently ordered a couple of genuine Hooligans knowing they will probably just gather dust in his showroom. Scooters just don't sell around here. We had a local Kymco, Vespa, Piaggio dealer but he switched to KTM because scooters just didn't sell.
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Ok and here's how it comes down.
The late 20-30 something walks into cycle dealer and says "show me the majesty etal" the dealer takes the kid the long way across the showroom floor, so he sees the bikes, and finds the dusty NOS scooter in the back.
After he talks down the scooter and talks up the advantage of a "real bike" .
Then He drops the big one. "For so much less money you can get a superior ride on a cycle., He talks about everything from speed to weight and why the cycle is foe you. Kid says he's intimidated by the cycle saleman explains that the risks are the same.
Kid thinks it over and never rides ......or buys a motorcycle.
Happens everyday and dealers I know are more than happy to admit it. They don't care for doing service etc on stuff they see on the rare day. People know all about maxis they just done want.
Maxis scooter are the ride of old dudes that don't want the cycle anymore.
Youngsters just see what they are. Big bloated scooters.
I know about old dudes I give the speech at least 100 times a year. Everyday 15000 boomers call it quits and head for retirement. If they want two wheels and are of able body the vast majority will pick a cycle over a scooter. Most likely a HD or Goldwings.
Just the way it is. The 200-300cc class ,IMO, is where scoots can make their mark.
AMAC
I'm sure that you are correct in a lot of cases. However, I still refuse to believe that the market is tapped out. A market isn't tapped out until nearly everyone who WOULD buy one is exposed to them. And I guess I'm the atypical. But in 51 years, I had NEVER even heard of a maxi scooter. And I watch Tv, read various magazines and other publications that are aimed at my demographic as well as those aimed at younger demographics. I live in a medium sized area where the combined population of the Tallahassee/Big Bend area is well over 300,000 young , working aged, and retirees. Again I bought one the FIRST time I saw one. Of course they will always be a small segment. But even a small segment has room for growth.
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No doubt it happens like you said a lot. However, there are exceptions. The Yamaha dealer where I bought my Majesty is owned by a guy who likes and has owned a few scooters. He has tried to sell scooters but they just don't sell around here. Despite this he recently ordered a couple of genuine Hooligans knowing they will probably just gather dust in his showroom. Scooters just don't sell around here. We had a local Kymco, Vespa, Piaggio dealer but he switched to KTM because scooters just didn't sell.
you all have made compelling cases. And I'm not saying that you are wrong. However, in the 4 months I've had my scooter, NO ONE that I've met other than the 37 YEAR OLD who drives the Burgman 650 executive has EVER seen a maxi scooter before. Marketing involves more than dropping a scooter in a showroom in the hopes that someone will notice it. The manufacturers need to stop being lazy and give some support to their dealers print, Internet, radio, and tv ads should be ATTEMPTED. IF it fails, it fails. But if it succeeds, then they have increased their bottom line. Will maxi or near-maxi scooters ever take America by storm? Probably not. But is there room to grow sales significantly by exposing a product to the MANY who've never heard of it? Likely yes. Part of American marketing is to create a "need" where none exists. Lol.
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you all have made compelling cases. And I'm not saying that you are wrong. However, in the 4 months I've had my scooter, NO ONE that I've met other than the 37 YEAR OLD who drives the Burgman 650 executive has EVER seen a maxi scooter before. Marketing involves more than dropping a scooter in a showroom in the hopes that someone will notice it. The manufacturers need to stop being lazy and give some support to their dealers print, Internet, radio, and tv ads should be ATTEMPTED. IF it fails, it fails. But if it succeeds, then they have increased their bottom line. Will maxi or near-maxi scooters ever take America by storm? Probably not. But is there room to grow sales significantly by exposing a product to the MANY who've never heard of it? Likely yes. Part of American marketing is to create a "need" where none exists. Lol.
I did what you're saying but there are many things the rest of the world has that you don't have in Tallahassee ........ ;)
AMAC
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That partly makes y point. That's what marketing is. Exposing a product to those who have never seen it before and expanding your POTENTIAL buyers. Since they choose to import those scooters to America, they might as well put forth more than a half hearted effort at selling them. As a matter of fact, I don't even see a significant effort made at selling the 150-300cc scooters which would suit many potential owners better than the 50cc ones.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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That partly makes y point. That's what marketing is. Exposing a product to those who have never seen it before and expanding your POTENTIAL buyers. Since they choose to import those scooters to America, they might as well put forth more than a half hearted effort at selling them. As a matter of fact, I don't even see a significant effort made at selling the 150-300cc scooters which would suit many potential owners better than the 50cc ones.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Again geography.
Tallahassee has no scooter dealer of merit. Scooter only, quality brands. Most that ride the 50s there will never ride again after college.
I live in a place where the local Kymco, SYM, Genuine dealer can't keep SYM 200 and Kymco 300s on the floor very long. Hit the floor, gone. They buy NOS from other dealers that can't move them.
Now over to the local Honda dealers and see the Forzas just sitting. Or the Burger 200s being price slashed at the Suzuki dealer. Both are exposed to the same market whims and awareness yet one moves them and the others don't.
The reason is here we have a choice to be the second fiddle at the cycle dealer or valued customer at the scooter dealer.
Most of America has no such choice. It's the cycle dealer for anything with two wheels and those dealers have found that large scooters sit on the floor. They didn't just make that up they have watched them sit for decades.
You could make a commercial and run it during the Super Bowl and things will stay the same.
Most looking at two wheels have seen big scoots before.
I'll agree to disagree on this one.
AMAC
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you all have made compelling cases. And I'm not saying that you are wrong. However, in the 4 months I've had my scooter, NO ONE that I've met other than the 37 YEAR OLD who drives the Burgman 650 executive has EVER seen a maxi scooter before. Marketing involves more than dropping a scooter in a showroom in the hopes that someone will notice it. The manufacturers need to stop being lazy and give some support to their dealers print, Internet, radio, and tv ads should be ATTEMPTED. IF it fails, it fails. But if it succeeds, then they have increased their bottom line. Will maxi or near-maxi scooters ever take America by storm? Probably not. But is there room to grow sales significantly by exposing a product to the MANY who've never heard of it? Likely yes. Part of American marketing is to create a "need" where none exists. Lol.
I agree that exposure is part of the issue. Around here you see more Harley's than everything. So if you see Harley's all the time, have a few friends with Harley's then power of suggestion will lead you to a Harley. On the few occasions I have gone on a ride with other scooters we got all kinds off attention. If they saw scooters more often maybe they'd look into getting one themselves.
I try to get more exposure for scooters by posting my scooter ride reports on a MOTORCYCLE forum, where more than just other scooter readers will read it. I know of at least one guy who bought a scooter as a result of my reports but there may have been more.
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I agree that exposure is part of the issue. Around here you see more Harley's than everything. So if you see Harley's all the time, have a few friends with Harley's then power of suggestion will lead you to a Harley. On the few occasions I have gone on a ride with other scooters we got all kinds off attention. If they saw scooters more often maybe they'd look into getting one themselves.
I try to get more exposure for scooters by posting my scooter ride reports on a MOTORCYCLE forum, where more than just other scooter readers will read it. I know of at least one guy who bought a scooter as a result of my reports but there may have been more.
It's amazing what the power of suggestion will do. It's a case of the chicken and the egg. People don't see enough of them, therefore they don't buy them. And because they don't buy them, we don't see many of them. However, that's where marketing comes in. Those of us who like scooters are THAT unique. But if I bought one by simply stumbling across one, and you know a guy who bought one just by seeing yours, there are bound to be some others who would buy them if they were cleverly marketed. First, to those in the demographic who already buys them but doesn't know of them yet. Then try to expand beyond that demographic. I WISH I had a marketing degree. Lol. Anyway, this has been a nice exchange of ideas among us.
Peace.
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Again geography.
Tallahassee has no scooter dealer of merit. Scooter only, quality brands. Most that ride the 50s there will never ride again after college.
I live in a place where the local Kymco, SYM, Genuine dealer can't keep SYM 200 and Kymco 300s on the floor very long. Hit the floor, gone. They buy NOS from other dealers that can't move them.
Now over to the local Honda dealers and see the Forzas just sitting. Or the Burger 200s being price slashed at the Suzuki dealer. Both are exposed to the same market whims and awareness yet one moves them and the others don't.
The reason is here we have a choice to be the second fiddle at the cycle dealer or valued customer at the scooter dealer.
Most of America has no such choice. It's the cycle dealer for anything with two wheels and those dealers have found that large scooters sit on the floor. They didn't just make that up they have watched them sit for decades.
You could make a commercial and run it during the Super Bowl and things will stay the same.
Most looking at two wheels have seen big scoots before.
I'll agree to disagree on this one.
AMAC
You are mostly correct concerning Tallahassee's lack of a real good scooter dealer. We have TWO who focus on that market. One sells only 50-150cc low line Chinese stuff. They are the best known. I don't think they are big on service.
The other (Where I bought mine) is a mom and pop operation that's been in business for a while. But they do little advertising. They sell the full line of Genuine, and Kymco scooters and a couple of brands of Chinese 50cc scooters . They also sell KYMCO ATVS and some lesser known motorcycle. And they have a decent selection of used scooters and motorcycles. They do full maintenance and repair , but will NOT even change a tire on a Chinese scooter above 150cc.
Anyway, they have a better reputation than the other dealership. Perhaps because they do an oil change and spark plug replacement on EVERY Chinese scooter they sell BEFORE it's delivered to the customer. And their owners and service techs seem to know what they're talking about. If they marketed THEMSELVES more aggressively, they'd put the other store out of business even with the Chinese stuff.
Yes, we'll agree to disagree. I feel that sales can be increased by greater marketing and exposure. You seem to think that the market will stay flat regardless. However, it is nice to dialogue with someone with a different perspective and from a different area. I guess our own experience influences the way we see things. But that's what makes The world interesting. Peace. And maybe we'll cross paths when I ride through Jacksonville.
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When I first visited my mother in St. Pete Beach,Fla., I was excited to see a scooter-only dealer just down the blvd from our hotel. Have been in there twice.
Friendly folks but they sell only Chinese scooters....which are the type I see on the streets, for the most part. Have seen a couple Vespas, a few Kymco LIKEs (the 50cc mostly) and a small Scarabeo
It is the Chinese stuff, faded and rusty, that I see parked all over....which is a sign that these scoots are being well used for daily transportation. So, good for them.
I asked a gal on a faded old yellow Honda elite where she got her scooter serviced. She said no one goes to that local dealer for service - the best service is miles away up the coast (Clearwater, I think she said) and that she had just come from getting an oil change and new spark plug from there. We were talking in Pass-A-Grille.
Lots of scooters around - but dealership support seems little better than here in Ohio.
There is a Vespa/Piaggio dealer here, about 25 miles away in a motorcycle shop. He never advertises - and I had to go online to discover that there was a Vespa dealer out side of Columbus or Cincinnati. Guy is located in a very small farm town!
The SYM dealer in the same town closed - their shop was a HVAC company - selling SYMs out of a garden shed. I give them credit - it was a new shed & they had one ea. of every SYM model and in various colors. Their mechanic had quit, and the sales girl was gone. Sign on the door said see the HVAC shop next door. Casualties of the 2009 bust I guess.
If all the scooter sellers around here shut down - I'd happily go back to a nice 300>500cc Honda bike of some sort. Scooters got me back on two wheels after 4 decades, but a 300 cc motorcycle w/ABS would suit me just as well - and probably makes better financial sense.
I wish Honda, SYM and Piaggio were better represented locally - and that they offered a much wider variety from their European line of scooters in this country!!
But that is not going to happen. This is Ohio - not Rome, Saigon or Barcelona. We're lucky that we can get parts for our scooters in the USA - even if we have to service them ourselves in most communities.
We don't do scooters in this country.
Stig
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Ya know now that I think about it those 200-300cc class scooters that sell so well here have something in common. Big wheels. The Kymco Gti300 and the SYM HD200 outsell the Downtown 3 to 1. I checked those numbers with said dealer and we agree on this.
It's not the perceived better stability of the 16" wheels or the absolute better handeleing of potholes and such it's that the big wheels make it look more like a motorcycle. They tell me they hear that a lot. Those looking at the DT300 already know they want that "look".
That's why I still think if one big scooter has a chance of making here it's the Integra. It blurs the lines both mechanically and in its cycle like look. Got to break the stigma.
Here's a link for those who haven't been blessed to see a truly great scooter. Team Red needs to give it a shot here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_NC700D_Integra#
AMAC