KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Super 8 => Topic started by: Super8504T on May 24, 2010, 06:49:17 AM
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Hello all, I am new here, but have had my Super 8 50 4 Stroke for about 4 weeks now and I love it, it's so economical and easy to ride.
I just have a problem though. When the scooter is on the main stand, the engine starts and turns over very slowly and doesnt turn the back wheel and it jut keeps the scooter ticking over smoothly, slowly and quietly. However when I leave the engine running and push the scooter forward and put it off the main stand, when any weight is put on the back wheel, the engine revs go quite high and the clutch kicks in and tries to move the scooter forward, causing me to keep the back brake pressed while stationary. This happens whether the engine is hot or cold, it doesnt matter. I suspect it may be the Automatic Choke, but I dont really know what it is?
Can any of you help with this problem?
Many thanks,
Steve.
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First off, welcome!
Have you checked to make sure there are no lines or wires being pinched when you take it off the stand? That is a somewhat odd problem! I would start by just visually checking over the fuel and vacuum lines as well as any wires. Beyond that, I'm not sure what would cause your problem. You can try pulling off the cvt cover to check that everything is working properly as well. Make sure the clutch is spinning smoothly. Otherwise, a call to your dealer may be in order.
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Thank you!
By lines and wires, which ones do you mean? Where do I look? The problem happens when any weight is put on the back wheel and so the clutch engages trying to pull the scooter forward. Not too sure where the vaccum system or fuel line is? ???
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I'm not super familiar with your model, but just check everything visually around the the rear of the bike. Look for any wires or hoses that may be getting pinched when the rear swing-arm moves. Check the fuel line and vacuum line running between the carb and gas tank. The auto choke wires will also run from the carb towards the front of the bike.
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G'day, welcome to the forum, you will find a lot of help here, if you don't mind a bit of fun aswell. With regards to your problem I would start by checking that the throttle cable is free and not getting pulled by anything when the weight is put on the rear suspension.
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Hmm. I've had a look at all the wires and tubes that are at the rear of the bike but I cant see any problems there, everthing including the throttle cable seems to be all free. It seems to be that whenever the bike stand has a release of pressure, that the engine rev's go quite high and the scooter moves forward slightly so you have to keep the rear brake pressed. There's nothing underneath the stand or anything that the arm could catch on, theres no wires near it. I seem to have no solution! Can any of you recommend any other things?
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..Welcome to th' Forum Super8!1..
...dude, something must be pulling on the throttle cable...
..take the seat and "Met In" box off, and put it on and off the center stand...(not running)
...watch the cable that's attached to your carb...see if it actuates the throttle mechanism there...
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Thanks!
I havent taken out the seat but I can see from underneath the throttle cable which seems to be free when on/off stand. I just dont kno what could be causing it? I'm stuck now ???
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...can you see the throttle mechanism in the side of your carb?
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Yes I can see it when I undo the "Carb maint" lid from in the seat and from underneath the side of the bke as well. It seems to be free when i turn the throttle it seems to be ok :-\
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...so, the steel cable, and the throttle mechanism on the carb, do not move as you go on and off the stand??
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No, not from what I can see. I cant see anything that is moving the throttle cable ???
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...wow..........................................................
...is your scoot new?
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1 year old. January 2009??
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...well, the good thing is, that it's still under warranty....
..the bad thing is, that I suspect you might have a clutch / gearbox problem...
..i'm saying this assuming that you have thoroughly inspected any and every cable, especially the throttle cable, vacuum hose, wire, etc...that might be affected by a bit of weight shift.....
...this is perplexing to me....
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Ok after a real close look under a torch, the throttle cable seems to be being pulled every so slightly, do you know how to slacken it off??
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...yeah, by repositioning the nut on the bracket at the carb....but something is pulling it....
..generally, those cables get loose, over time, and then need to be tightened...never heard of one getting tighter....
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Ok after a real close look under the torch, I can see that the throttle cable is being pulled ever ever so slightly and so causing the revs to increase slightly. Do you know how to adjust or slacken the throttle cable?
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Sorry posted that again!
What exactly do you adjust?
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...i'm not sure that you should adjust anything, but trace the cable back and find out what's pulling it....
..see, the black sheath is only there for protection of the steel cable...
..somewhere, something is drastically pulling on that sheath...
..has to be fairly drastic for it to make the steel cable actuate the carburetor's throttle....
..if you don't find it, it could wear through the sheath, and allow moisture and grit inside, which might cause your steel cable to rust, hang-up and maybe eventually break...
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One thing to note is that on my throttle grip, it has a dead zone where it is loose at the beginning and doesnt have any action on the cable for about 1/10 of a turn. Is that anything to do with it or is that normal?
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...well, that isn't so bad after a year of riding...according to how many miles (kms) you've ridden..
..that's what i'm saying, loosening of the throttle cable is expected to happen...
..doesn't explain the pulling...just th' opposite, in fact...
..sounds like something may even have streched....
..take a closer look...trace the cable from the carb to the twist-grip throttle..
..there's an anomoly somewhere...
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Thanks a lot wordslinger for your help. I have tried to trace the throttle cable as far as I can, but I dont want to undo any of the casing so I have just left it but I adjusted the throttle on the bracket and it has got rid of the "dead zone" in m throttle grip now, it is quite tight. It hasnt solved the whole proble though. It goes in for a major service next month so I'll try and put with it until then. They should find the problem. It's no massive problem, it doesnt affect the way the bike drives or handles but it's just one of those things you want sorted. :)
Thanks a lot.
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..y' welcome super8!!
;D
peace
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Just looked through the service manual and it says: "If the motorcycle tends to creep, or the engine
stalls, check the clutch shoes for wear and
replace if necessary."
This maybe what my problem is? Because it only happend when any weight is applied to the bike and the clutch has any weight put on it. So this maybe the cause? Will it need replacing? Also how much will it be?
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First off, welcome!
Have you checked to make sure there are no lines or wires being pinched when you take it off the stand? That is a somewhat odd problem! I would start by just visually checking over the fuel and vacuum lines as well as any wires. Beyond that, I'm not sure what would cause your problem. You can try pulling off the cvt cover to check that everything is working properly as well. Make sure the clutch is spinning smoothly. Otherwise, a call to your dealer may be in order.
Shaka's post is still the most relevant. You are going to have to remove the plastics to really inspect what is happening. The clutch would not be the suspect. A jammed throttle cable, or pinched vacuum line is more likely. Pull the tuperware off, and get your hands dirty son.
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With the engine being mounted on the swingarm the whole angle changes in relation to the frame with any movement of the rear suspension, would the cable be rubbing on the frame or plastic panels enough to actuate the throttle? Loosening of the cable will rectify it if this is happening, if it does then you will know where to look for the problem.
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Just a thought. If you can get your hand in there, grab the throttle cable outer housing (black part) near the carb and gently tug it toward the carb, just a little. If nothing else, just try jiggling it as much as you can. Maybe something will work loose.
On the same idea, do you see any cable ties on the throttle cable anywhere? Like tying it to the frame or other things. If so, do they look real tight?
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Ok I dont think its anything to do with the throttle cable because sometimes the engine idles at different rpm's.. sometimes its quite low and sometimes its quite high. Also the throttle cable is free, nothing is catching on it at all. I think it has something to do with the clutch shoe..
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..refresh my memory, but the rpms increase when the tire is on the ground, or off the ground??
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Ok.. when the scooter is on the main center stand.. the rpm's are very low and at the norm.. the headlights dim as they do when the engine is that low. But when I push the scooter off the center stand and onto the floor so that the back wheel is on the floor.. the rpm's increase to a high idle and wants to creep the scooter forward slowly. Also the headlights stay on bright and dont dim as they should do because of the high rpm's. However sometimes the rev's will drop down for about 5-6 seconds.. but then they will go back up to high idle again.. its like the engine doesnt know how to idle properly.
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Also can I just add in that when I come to a mildly sharp stop say at junctions or traffic lights. The rpm's drop down really low to cutting out point and sometimes if the engine is cold it will cut out. But if it doesnt cut out the rpm's will after about 5-6 seconds come back up to high idle where it wants to "creep" the scooter forward again.
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I don't know if this would do it but what about a low float level? while the scooter is idling on the main stand try tipping it back to level and see if the idle increases, if you sit on the scoot and lean back that should do it, just hold the rear brake on for safety. as I said, I don't know if it will work but worth a try.
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...good idea sid...
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Yeah, if it is not pulling the throttle cable then it must be something else, with the revs dropping after a quick stop, may be something like that.
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Ok sid.. just tell me what to do again.. didnt quite understand ???
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With the scoot idling on the main stand tip the scoot back so the front wheel is off the ground. Hold the rear brake on so the scoot don't take off. Ie the idle increases it may be something to do with the float level. I don't know if it will do anything but may be wortha try.
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The more you post the more I think it is a vacuum leak. Have someone do a $40.00 leak down test for you. Or at least install a vacuum gauge, and monitor it as the trouble happens.
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Not sure if this will help,not familiur with the super 8,but the old honda's were famous for this with the carb mounted in the front of the cylinder.While off the ground there is less vibration,when the tire hits the ground it would shake the carb boot letting in air,making it almost imposible to tune if you had an air leak,plus the fact they cracked quite often.I would check that all is tight at the boot to carb,if that don't do it try to look for leeks.Carb cleaner sprayed around the boot should retard your idle if you have an air leak.If you do you can duct tape for a temp fix,but replacing boot is your best option.Good luck
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Just tried tipping the scooter back and forth on the main stand but the low idle doesnt alter, its fine on the stand, its when any weight is put on the back wheel. I think it maybe a vaccum leak as zombie said. What can I have a look at/do myself without getting anybody to look at it as its going in for a service in two weeks so I'm not going to bother with it too much, but just wondered if theres anything I can do myself in the meantime?
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I'd try the carb cleaner around the boot,while it is Idleing high,any change in idle will tell you there is a leak.You can usually trace it right to the spot if it exists.Good luck
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..this is very strange
..i was sure it was something stretching the throttle cable, because he said he could see the cable pull the throttle assembly on the carb when he dropped iy off the stand...
..wtf??
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Yeah ok were all getting a bit muddled now :D
At first I thought the throttle cable was being pulled very very slightly but now I know it certainly isnt. I am quite sure it is the clutch shoe that is worn since the bike has now done 8600km it might be time for a new one. Because the problem only happens when any weight is put on the back wheel, where the clutch is and so as it says in the manual if it tends to creep forward.. it could be the clutch shoe that is worn.
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I cant see it being a vacuum leak because why does it not do it all the time even when on the stand? It only happens when any weigh is applied to the back wheel so my suspicion is that the clutch shoe is worn :-\
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since the bike has now done 8600km it might be time for a new one.
..i have 49,000 km on my original clutch and it is just fine...forty-nine thousand....
..over 30,000 miles...
..8600 isn't even broken in good yet...lol..
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Guys, I have an idea....
The Carb has a float to actuate the "Needle & Seat" yeah?
As the rear tire hits the ground, the angle or the whole rear "cradle" (engine, swing-arm, wheel etc) tilts like a pendulum. As pressure is put on the rear tire, this will force the engine down, and as the carb is near the front of the engine, this will be subjected to the most movement or change in angle.
As the carb changes angle, would the movement in the float affect the fuel distribution, and maybe create a surge of available fuel to the engine ???
Food for thought......
Josh
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Well I've just put my new clutch on and its made no difference.. cant tune the carb what so ever it does what it wants to. I think it maybe a vaccum leak as mentioned.. I'll try to look around in it for a leak in the boot and things....
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Well this is really puzzling now.. looked at every single vaccum wire fuel wire and all other wires to the rear that could be being pulled and nothing is... there is more vibration when it is on the ground... it wants to cut-out when its cold so you have to keep twitchng the throttle from time to time to keep it a float.. and when its warm it wants to high idle all the time ???
Is it not a gearbox problem or something else on the clutch because I have only replaced the clutch shoe. ???
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The high idle at running temp is classic air leak,what does your spark plug look like?
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I've not looked at the spark plug.. havent got the tool the take it off.. I wont mess with it I'll just wait for its service middle of next week and thy shoul find the leak... when the engine is on and you listen near the suspension area at the back you can just hear a faint hissing noise.. nothng drastic.. maybe this is the cause... but the carb boot from the airbox to the carb seems to be in good condition and some of the other wires and lines seem good so which line/wire could it be?
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should be a spark plug wrench under the seat.The plug color will tell if your running lean(air leak)
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So this is why my exhaust is backfireing then?? Because I'm running lean because of the air leak..
should be a spark plug wrench under the seat
I dont have a spark plug wrench.. cant I use something else?
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I don't have that model but you can usually come up with something
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...a deep-well socket and ratchet is what i use...believe itsa 5/8"...
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Well guys after 53 posts and some very puzzled people ::) Im pleased to say the problem has somehow been rectified! ;D
My bike has been using a hell of a lot of fuel these last few days.. probably because I had the idle mix screw turn nearly all the way in.. but now I'v turned it 3/4 of the way out in the hope it will use less fuel. But now I've done that.. when I came to start it up, I pushed it off the stand and the revs didnt alter one bit.. they did go up ever ever ever so slightly but nothing noticable and I can now "tune" my bike when its on th ground where as before it was impossible to tune! For example I can turn the idle setting screw in and out and it adjusts it fine.. so I've set my ideal idle now which is running fine. I dont know what has caused it to be solved but all I did was turn the idle mix screw 3/4 the way out and just put some packing foam near my airbox because when at about 60 km/h it has recently been vibrating and it tingles the floor.. but once past about 60 km/h it goes away. So I packed it up to stop the vibrations which I think has solved that.
But really really just dont know what has solved it.. I'm saying this while touching wood ::) Hoping it doesnt go funny again.
Thanks for all the advice guys.... ;) :)
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..dang...glad its better anyway...
;D
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Your best bet is to talk to a local dealer. Even show them your thread here so they have ALL the info as it happened. I believe they will do their best to sort it ALL out as you will be seen by hundreds of people.
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...WE HAVE TH' POWWERRR!!!!
;D