KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => LIKE 200i => Topic started by: Petey4 on July 13, 2017, 05:37:55 PM
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New user here (but I've been lurking awhile). Never ridden a scooter before (but I had several motorcycles in my younger days), so I don't have anything to compare this one to.
Purchased a new 2015 (anniversary model) in January, since the dealer was "motivated" to get it off the floor. It's been serving my commuting needs well, and seems pretty peppy, but its performance is significantly less than what many report here.
Bottom line, if it's within the window of acceptable performance I won't worry about it. It's a hassle to bring to the shop. But if there's something wrong with it I want to get it fixed while under warranty.
I'm a big guy (210 lbs) but I read about other large people going 60 mph. Top speed for me on a flat run is barely 50 (according to the speedo). I've gotten it as high as 53 when on a long down-slope. Also, my gas mileage is always around 57 mpg. I've gotten 62 or so when consciously riding the accelerator as light as possible. Others online report much higher figures.
I now have 950 miles, have changed the oil three times (using synthetic the last time), changed the gear oil twice, checked the valve clearance twice, restructured the seat, and added mirror extenders. I use premium gas.
Does my performance seem way off, or is it within the realm of normal? To my ear the engine sounds kind of gurgle-y at lower rpms, and plastic-y at high rpms (sort of like when we used to clip playing cards to our bicycle spokes). I put a call in to the dealer about the performance. They were going to investigate whether it was normal (and whether I had a chip that could be updated) but they never got back to me. Thought I'd see what y'all thought.
Thanks for any feedback!
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Hi Petey, welcome to the forum. Your performance does seem a little on the low side. It could be something as easy as the throttle cable being too slack so that it does not open fully at speed. You can check by taking out the seat and operating the twist grip and watch to see if the butterfly valve on the injection body goes to full open. Another possibility is to check the air filter for any obstructions. This would cause both speed and mileage symptoms that you mention. I doubt that the "chip" remedy is the answer unless the one in your scooter is defective which would be covered by the warranty. A third cause could be a dragging brake caliper which is easily checked. Put the bike on the center stand and see if the wheels turn with only light resistance.
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You should see an increase in performance if you were to use 87 octane fuel (R+M/2) instead of premium. Better yet is non-ethanol.
Karl
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Thanks, both, for the tips. I'll switch gas. Checked the wheel rotation, but will have to check the throttle and air filter this weekend. We'll see what happens.
Forgot to mention, I also switched to the NGK iridium last oil change, but it didn't make any difference.
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Like you I weigh 210 pounds. From my experience my Like averaged 80 mpg over the 5 years, 14,000+ miles I owned it. I only ran premium unleaded gasoline through the engine. Engine performance dramatically improved once I reached 1,500 miles. I could reach speeds of 63 mph on long straight roads, but 60 mph was easily doable. It does bog down on uphill grades and significantly depending on the angle. The first thing I did when I got the scooter was to remove any slack in the throttle. Your max speed and mileage seems way off. You should be able to go 60 mph. I ride backroads with lots of hills and speeds that range from 25 to 50 mph with reserve power to go faster and would get 80 mpg. If I didn't get those results I know something was wrong. I used a spreadsheet to track my stats. You might want to do the same.
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Personally I stick with the stock spark plug. That is all I ever used and it worked great! YMMV
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I forgot to mention that we got better mileage, too. 'Bout like Troutbum.
Karl
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Yeah, sounds like something is not quite right. But if throttle slack is limiting my speed, that wouldn't affect gas mileage, would it? I'll check the air intake/filter too, but that should be okay, since the bike hasn't seen any dirty conditions since I bought it.
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You'll probably find the air filter rarely gets dirty due to the placement of the hose under the body molding. Throttle slack won't effect mpg. I am at a loss to why the performance is lacking. If you have a smart phone download a GPS App to check the your top speed and mileage. I found the Kymco gauge to be slightly optimistic.
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Interesting.....
4 yrs, 12000+ miles on mine.
Iridium plug increased/smoothed idle - nothing else, but nice secure idle while buried in traffic at a light on a little plastic scooter ...is good.
Your mpg's and top speed will surely increase as you add miles.
That's a lot of oils and valve servicing .......but not unheard of ;-)
Your scooter is probably fine, and being under-stressed (like Beetle engines) will likely outlive a Sears mower.
Do keep us informed about this issue...
It's a good scooter.
Stig
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Check the pressure in your tires. Small scooters are very sensitive to air pressure changes, and at your weight I think it can really matter. If it was me I'd put 32 at least in the rear tire and maybe 28 in the front.
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I took out a small bit of slack from the accelerator cable -- but I think the spring assembly was already getting full travel. No noticeable intake obstructions, but I thought it was a little weird that there was a thin piece of foam covering the filter. I left it off after finding no pictures online of pre-filters. Just for kicks I also removed the intake reducer on the filter housing. Tire pressure was fine, but I added a couple of pounds for extra firmness.
I'll see tomorrow morning whether I get any extra speed. Meanwhile, I'm feeling halfway between Stig (thinking the bike is probably ok) and TroutBum (thinking my performance is way off). Because it's been reliable so far and serves my needs well, I'm wary of starting a wild-goose chase with the dealer (since it's a pain in the neck to get it there). Maybe I happened to get a lower performing model, and, as Stig says, maybe I'll gradually get better performance over time. On the other hand, if I could be sure something is wrong I'd definitely want to get it figured out.
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I took out a small bit of slack from the accelerator cable -- but I think the spring assembly was already getting full travel. No noticeable intake obstructions, but I thought it was a little weird that there was a thin piece of foam covering the filter. I left it off after finding no pictures online of pre-filters. Just for kicks I also removed the intake reducer on the filter housing. Tire pressure was fine, but I added a couple of pounds for extra firmness.
I'll see tomorrow morning whether I get any extra speed. Meanwhile, I'm feeling halfway between Stig (thinking the bike is probably ok) and TroutBum (thinking my performance is way off). Because it's been reliable so far and serves my needs well, I'm wary of starting a wild-goose chase with the dealer (since it's a pain in the neck to get it there). Maybe I happened to get a lower performing model, and, as Stig says, maybe I'll gradually get better performance over time. On the other hand, if I could be sure something is wrong I'd definitely want to get it figured out.
It must be frustrating thinking there is something a little off with your engine. .....
The engine, or the CVT - and the only CVT issue that would cause lowered mpg's and mph that comes to mind is a too narrow belt.
It's not throwing any fault codes, correct?
Have performed the re-set with the throttle?
Performance did not change after your valve adjustment?
It's a hassle to get the bike to your dealer - but there is a socket under the battery plate (3 screws) to plug in a Kymco diagnostic tool. The read outs would surely spot something if seriously wrong.
Does your dealer have one ? Is he willing to do this quick check?
A few lbs of xtra air will lower your contact patch and you and scoot's comfort over rough roads....if gained mpg a fraction.IMHO 25/30☆
Stig
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No, no fault codes or indicators showing up. Looks like my next step will be seeing if the dealer can check the diagnostics with the kymco tool, hopefully while I wait.
I can't help wondering whether my problems have something to do with my bike sitting on the showroom floor for more than a year. It showed only .1 mile, so it doesn't look like anyone even test rode it. But should they have been doing any preventative maintenance? Is it possible they actually replaced a part (like the CVT)? If so, they did not mention it. What about something in the exhaust system? That little tailpipe is too small for a potato to be stuck in there.
Anyway, yesterday's tweaks may have given me a little more pickup and a little less gurgly noise while accelerating, but, alas, I wasn't even able to break 49 mph on today's commute.
I never needed to adjust the valves -- just checked them twice. One was slightly tighter than the other, but they both seemed close to the number.
When you ask whether I reset the throttle -- are you talking about cable slack or something else?
Thanks, all, for helping me think it through. We'll see what the dealer says about the diagnostics tool.
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Hello,
Not to get hopes wildly up - because my 4 yrs of experience with this LIKE200i is that these 're-sets' are not much more than superstitious in nature! :) ...but it can't hurt to try. You just might be the first to get the healing! Seriously - it can't hurt to give it a go.
This re-set is done if some stuff has been removed and reinstalled - (MAP, ISC, TPS or ECU) - or you just want to be sure:
In the battery box is a pink wire, probably. (some LIKE's may not have this )
1)Turn the key to the 'ON' position (do not start the scooter)
2) ground the pink wire to the negative battery post - or to a scooter 'ground' - the frame.
3) turn the key off, then remove the pink wire from the ground/battery post (above)
Another re-set for the TPS:
1) Turn on and off key (no start!) three times - each function (on & off) is held for at least 4 seconds.
"on 4+ seconds, off 4+ seconds, on 4+ seconds, off 4+ seconds, on 4+ seconds, off 4+ seconds - have a coffee"
Self-diagnostic Re-set:
1) Turn key on (no start!) and wait 10 seconds
2) Fully open throttle and hold for 10 seconds
3) Fully close throttle
4) After 5 seconds the light will blink twice
5) Key off, finish coffee.
My LIKE200i was 11 months old when I bought it. I think many of our LIKE's were purchased many months from their production date in China. They still ran fine. (there's a silver sticker under the right side skirt - visible with a torch)
At 950 miles - PSI in tires, Air filter (incl. foam cover) and that snorkel (w or w/o the reducer) are not your performance problem. There is a trouble shoot mention in serv. manual of a possible pinched fuel tank breather and clogged muffler. Both easy to check..
Main items in trouble shoot for poor high speed performance are;
#1 ECU
#2 fuel pressure regulator
#3 fuel injector .... so maybe some Techron ? (but would that cause low mpg's ? doubt it)
If your brakes are not dragging, Thinking you need the diagnostic meter put on the scoot....in case it is simply a faulty ECU - which no DIY could ever find and fix without replacing the unit.
good luck
Stig
PS: yeah, scooters make all kinds of weird unmotorcycle-like noises. I just sing louder.
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PS: yeah, scooters make all kinds of weird unmotorcycle-like noises. I just sing louder.
Ha, that's really good to hear. I made the mistake of riding mine without a helmet for the first time the other day -- just around the block to test-drive it -- and my uncovered ears heard all sorts of new sounds!
You've given me a lot of interesting things to try next weekend. Thanks much. I'll let y'all know if anything works. Maybe it'll provide evidence of something I can tell the dealer. Maybe it's really a bad ECU. Had no idea there were all these crazy self-tests -- although, for the record, I am suspicious you're just hazing the new guy.
BTW, I felt pretty comfortable on this morning's commute leaving my tires at 30/34. Still felt solid cornering.
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I don't know if you have it already but a FREE pdf of the service manual is available here...https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxQrsfGitVuHazh0MVVQWXduUGc/edit
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Ha, that's really good to hear. I made the mistake of riding mine without a helmet for the first time the other day -- just around the block to test-drive it -- and my uncovered ears heard all sorts of new sounds!
You've given me a lot of interesting things to try next weekend. Thanks much. I'll let y'all know if anything works. Maybe it'll provide evidence of something I can tell the dealer. Maybe it's really a bad ECU. Had no idea there were all these crazy self-tests -- although, for the record, I am suspicious you're just hazing the new guy.
BTW, I felt pretty comfortable on this morning's commute leaving my tires at 30/34. Still felt solid cornering.
No, not hazing the new guy. we pass along recommendations learned....not directives.
There are these re-sets for the LIKE200i....it's just that the problem is rarely discovered behind one....but then a lot of folks fix things and never tell us. Probably out riding.
30 lbs psi in the front ?, it's your dental work ;)....On Ohio roads I'd need to bring a string bag for the parts & panels banged off :).
Kymco is not hiding something from us when they recommend 25psi in the front tire. (even Suzuki engineers stipulate 25 in the front tire for my 90mph capable 500lb Burgman scooter)
Stig
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No, not hazing the new guy. we pass along recommendations learned....not directives.
I was only kidding. This site is great. But some of those resets remind me of medieval spells.
Big Blue, thanks for the link. I knew the manual was out there, but I hadn't actually downloaded it yet.
Pete
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Seems that only one of the three resets Stig mentioned is supposed to confirm success. But I'm having trouble. I attempted all three resets several times, clocking each action precisely. The one that involved the 10-second full throttle should provide a double CELP blink at the end, but I get nothing. Wondering if others experience the same ambiguity. If not, maybe I'm getting closer to my issue?
I do get the normal two-second CELP light when I turn ignition to "on" (with no additional error blinks).
Out of curiosity, next to the single pink cable in the battery compartment are two unattached modules -- one pink/white, one black. I figure one is for attaching a diagnostic cable, but what's the other one for?
Next stop, I suppose, is seeing whether my dealer has a Kymco diagnostic tool.
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If i recall correctly. ..that extra wire is for something Kymco calls the test/inspection lead? Used when setting up the scoot in the factory?
Agree, it needs to go to dealer for a physical.
Stig
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Getting close... Looks like a bad transmission. The shop temporarily traded mine out for one from a new bike -- allowing mine to reach 68 mph. It's back home for a week while they wait on parts. After a brief phone conversation with the mechanic I'm still a little fuzzy about the cause. Something was out of spec (pulleys? sliders?) -- so there was ongoing friction while the engine was able to maintain full RPMs. The mechanic also felt abnormal vibrations in the floor while riding, which I had also noticed, but assumed was normal.
Anyway, looks like the one possible remaining hitch is that Kymco is reluctant to pay for all replacement parts. Seems the belt is prematurely worn from grinding (he found shavings throughout the tranny) but still usable, so Kymco doesn't want to replace it. (Mechanic agrees that's not fair, since the premature wear was caused by something wrong from day one -- so he says he's going to try to convince Kymco.) I have no doubt the problem was always there, not only because of my sense that the power had never been better (only a sense -- since I tried not to ride full-throttle for a few hundred miles), but also because I've tracked my MPG every single tank -- and it was always 55-57. That's pretty clear data-driven evidence to my mind.
Hopefully it'll all work out in the end, and I'll soon enjoy my scooter's real potential. Probably won't sound as strange too. It's just weird that it had such important bad parts at .01 miles, and no one noticed.
Thanks everyone for prodding me to keep looking into the matter. As I said, I'd just been assuming my performance was within the normal window for these scooters. I'll let you know how Kymco behaves in honoring their warranty.
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Pete,
Thanks for the update - your scoot's issue with a new CVT is a first for me.
Yeah, some belt dust is normal.....but not a lot. If seeing particles of threads, etc. from the newish belt - that is wrong - and weird.
I won't begin to guess what the heck could have been wrong - if all the correct parts were fitted at the factory.
Worse case could be paying for a new belt - @$47.00. But agree you should not have to pay.
Glad you've got a good running LIKE200i finally. Now you see why it has so many fans.
The thing is generally pretty peppy in town and bullet proof. Brakes will toss out your partial.....
Stig
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Unfortunately I didn't get to ride it while they had the temp CVT in. But I'm really looking forward to it. Good to know the belt isn't too pricey. I'll let y'all know if I find out more about what caused everything when I go back to the shop in a week or so.
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Got the work done today: dealer replaced the CVT, the clutch, and the belt -- all covered under warranty. They said they now believe the initial problem (from day one) was a bad clutch, and that led to worn rollers, pulley, and belt.
While they couldn't say why the clutch was bad, they thought it was interesting that Kymco no longer provides the clutch that has been specified from 2010 on (and continues to be today). The replacement part is apparently slightly different and has a different part number. So the mechanic wondered if my problem might have been related to a previously known clutch issue.
Anyway, I haven't ridden it much yet, but was pleased to find it a lot smoother, while easily maintaining 60 mph. Hopefully the mpg will improve as well. The pickup has suffered a bit, but I'm not complaining, since its peppiness had always been amphetamine-like -- lots of noise and vibration. I guess all that engine torque is now spread out the way it's supposed to be. Feels great to have the sense that there's plenty of power in reserve. Looking forward to tomorrow morning's commute!
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Thanks for the update Petey4. I hope once the tranny gets worked in you'll notice improvements all around.
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Went through my first tank of gas since the work was done. 71 mpg is a big improvement. I'm dialing back my previous report of 60 mph, since I have not reached that speed since I rode home from the shop, when I was on a long freeway access road that was probably going somewhat downhill. On my regular commute -- where the top-speed stretch is more limited -- I seem to top out at 57. Still, that's a big improvement from before.
I do feel my floorboard mildly pulsating at top speed, so I'm checking in one more time to see if there's anything else I should be worrying about (since the shop never determined what was causing the bad clutch in the first place). 71 mpg and 57 mph still seems a little shy of what most riders here are getting. But it suits my needs fine if y'all think I'm now in the "normal" zone.
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You're about 2mph faster than mine, and 1mpg lower than mine .....the last time I checked. But has been 2 or 3 yrs since I have checked either.
This is my 5th summer with this LIKE200iLX. No issues since 2014.
Running great.
Stig
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Here is an old message from the early Like posts about removing the restrictor in the air filter box. May be good for a few MPHs.http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=8060.0 (http://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=8060.0)