KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Like 50 2T => Topic started by: Psuffix on July 07, 2012, 05:17:19 AM
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Well, long story short I found a practically brand-new 2011 Like 50 on sale with 300 miles and $800 below MSRP, serviced at 125 and 250 miles. Perfect shape (until I dropped it on a test ride. it's been years since I rode a two-wheeled motor vehicle and the thing just got away from me). Purchased it and rode it home no problems, included some fuel additive and synthetic oil. I knew it was restricted beforehand and wouldn't have better jets or boss included, but I've been reading all over these forums for the past few days and I've got a good idea of what it's going to take. The price was just too good to beat. I have some engine knowledge but very VERY few tools, though my budget allows for some new purchases here and there.
Reading through wassonii's threads was exciting, then the tragedy, but good to read he's back up and running. Learned a lot from this guy!
My biggest concern after deregulating is being able to climb hills. It's pretty up-and-down where I am, some steep inclines, and slowing to 23 on uphills really upsets the city drivers, though I think it's going a little fast than what the speedometer is reading (as per one of those signs that tell you how fast you're going... it said I was going 30 uphill!).
First I'm getting a Tecnigas Silent Pro exhaust
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/exhaust-tecnigas-silent-kymco-sf10-p-106-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26384&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/exhaust-tecnigas-silent-kymco-sf10-p-106-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26384&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad)
zombie insists that getting a 1500 rpm torque clutch spring would make the biggest difference for her, after derestriction and exhaust. Plus maybe 8g Dr Pulley 16-13 sliding weights (though stock is 8.5, what could the benefit be?) and a I've read a lot of mentioning of a new "spring" needed in this which seems to have been referred to as torque spring, control spring, contra or rear spring. These are all the same thing or not? I want to make sure I'm making the right investment. If you increase the stiffness of the torque spring you need to increase the mass of the sliding weights? Plus, where can I get this spring, I can't seem to find them online.
Next purchase is the Dr Pulley Variator Kit GY50. Should I just get the variator kit before the spring? At some point I'll replace the carb for a bigger one. Not sure which one I should get or where from, but I'm still searching. BBK isn't out of the question in the future.
Also, where can I find engine diagrams and things like that? I really want to become familiar with it and I'm not sure where to start besides these forums.
Tomorrow I'm taking it to a local service shop to see if they have a derestricted boss variator and jets for it, probably an 82 or 85 jet for now considering everything I've read here. I'm a little concerned that I wasn't the one breaking this ride in, but oh well. It runs great so far, though it has died a couple times idling at lights, maybe because it's so hot here.
Thanks ahead of time! Looking forward to enjoying my Like, it's a pretty little thing!
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Enjoy it while it's still stock new!!! ;)
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Haha! It's still fun to ride... I have plenty of routes to work that allow me to go at my own pace. Which hasn't been faster than 33 yet. A little sad, but hey, I knew what I was getting into.
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It's still breaking in. Open up the cvt and you will see lots of rubber (break-in) dust. Clean with a small paint brush and make some inspections...
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As far as a torque/contra spring goes, since you are already going to order from racing planet, they can be found on this page:
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/transmission-parts-c-2_26378_26382-1.html?sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/transmission-parts-c-2_26378_26382-1.html?sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad)
With a Jasil/Top Racing 15% spring (comparable to other brands' 1000rpm) and 8 gram roller weights, my top speed is currently 41-44mph, dependent on weather conditions. The main difference with a spring (that I have found) is ability to maintain speed when encountering wind (10-20mph wind drops my speed to 32-35mph versus 25-28mph with the stock spring. Note:40mph wind gusts and all bets are off - I went from 35mph to 25mph when turning into that speed of wind gust).
At present, I have no experience with sliders, so cannot say one way or the other.
With your set-up as it currently is, an 82 main jet will benefit, if it hasn't already been done. With the new pipe, an 85-88 will do well for the scoot. I have become a fierce proponent for the plug chop! Get some extras! (I don't know your location, but if in the U.S., partsforscooters http://www.partsforscooters.com/145-31_NGK_Spark_Plug (http://www.partsforscooters.com/145-31_NGK_Spark_Plug)has the best prices and quickest turnaround.)
For tools, I use a torque wrench & a 3/8" drive 12"breaker bar and sockets to access variator and clutch nuts. A clutch-holding tool works well for the clutch (supplemented by using the parking brake) - I purchased mine at treatland https://www.treatland.tv/universal-holder-tool-p/hold-anything-super-tool.htm (https://www.treatland.tv/universal-holder-tool-p/hold-anything-super-tool.htm) since they had the best price, but any purveyor you choose, so long as it is like the tool listed at the link, will suffice.
There are many ways to hold the variator. I got a holding/blocking tool from racingplanet http://www.racingplanetusa.com/variator-holder-blocking-tool-kymco-horizontal-p-256-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26382&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/variator-holder-blocking-tool-kymco-horizontal-p-256-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26382&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad) and while it isn't an exact fit for our case, it can be used quite effectively once figured out.
As to your stalling at idle, I would check the idle speed screw on the carb. Prior to starting, you can figure out how far it is currently out by counting the number of turns it takes you to screw it all the way in and then back it out the same number of turns. With that knowledge, start the scoot and let it warm up for 10-15 minutes by taking it out on a short run (this allows the auto choke to do it's thing so it won't interfere with your setting the idle.) After the run leave the scooter on, put the scoot on its' center stand, and adjust the idle screw. It may be that it is too far out. Mine is currently about 2.5 turns out, but I will likely take it in to 2.25 turns.
I am unfamiliar with the Dr. P vari, but anything is better than the stock one. Just make sure it will fit.
As to carb replacement, I am still researching this, myself. 17.5 will see an increase in performance and adjustability, but if a bbk is anywhere in your future, a 19 would be best.
The Like is a great little beast, with some great lines to it.
Welcome to the forum!
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First I'm getting a Tecnigas Silent Pro exhaust
The Next R will offer much better performance. It's only about $30 more for the unpainted Next R. Pipes with an expansion chamber are much better with 2 strokes.
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You are a champ Wass! Nice post.
Yours was ok too Peters :-*
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;D
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Zombie - you set a fine example to follow: ;D
If you do go with the Next R, you may need to go to a higher main jet. Pluggus Choppus!
Also, for coating, I quote the zen master:
You will melt pistons before you burn this coating... Good stuff. http://www.amazon.com/VHT-SP115-FlameProof-Coating-Satin/dp/B000CPJLGW/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_text_b/182-2107029-4548908 (http://www.amazon.com/VHT-SP115-FlameProof-Coating-Satin/dp/B000CPJLGW/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_text_b/182-2107029-4548908)
Do NOT use grill paint. These exhausts get hotter than your average BBQ (I unfortunately speak from knowledge and am now having to consider a repaint)
Zombie - I saw your reply about Ospho and will be looking into a jug soon.
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Yep :)
Btw I meant to say uncoated not unpainted. Chrome isn't paint ;D
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That Ospho is Magic Juice. One gallon will last a life time. I pour a tiny bit in a plastic bowl, and use a paint brush to apply. Just like water. 1oz will coat about 10 exhaust pipes.
Let it soak about an hour, and hose it off. New metal
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But one can acquire chrome paint ;)
As to torque/contra spring here is some good infos on what it does and how it affects the overall cvt performance:
"Torque spring has to compliment the rollers. The easiest way to choose the correct torque spring is this:
When you accelerate and the rpms jump up, then bog down and start to climb again, then your torque spring is too weak. You keep goin to a stronger torque spring until your rpms increase all the eay to your max rpm. I always get the correct torque spring 1st and then tune the rollers second"
via http://www.provoscooter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9024 (http://www.provoscooter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9024)
For instance, with the Jasil spring I currently use, having tried both 7.7g and 8g weights in my stock vari, once I start into acceleration, there is a slight dip and then a pull up around the 20-25mph mark. I expect when I install my new vari this will smooth out some, but I went ahead and ordered a 1500 spring from partsforscooters which should smooth it out completely. I don't know for certain that the 8g weights I currently run will be the correct weight, but have sets from 6.5g - 9g to get it dialed in once all is in place. Too, and I don't know if you have yet noticed, take-off tends to be a little sluggish, so I have a set of 1500rpm fly springs that I will be installing at the same time.
Also good info on how each component affects the whole of the cvt system:
http://highgaintuning.blogspot.com/2011/07/rollers-and-springs-how-to-keep-balance.html (http://highgaintuning.blogspot.com/2011/07/rollers-and-springs-how-to-keep-balance.html)
I can attest to the practical application of the maxim: "a clean scoot is a happy scoot".
With my initial attempt at installing the new vari, I cleaned the case out, got the glaze off the clutch shoes and cleaned the bell, and cleaned up the stock vari parts. After just doing that and reinstalling the stock vari and buttoning it all back up, throttle response definitely smoothed out some and performance is much happier.
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Quoting Slinger... "Its'a true!"
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Peters and wassonii, thanks for the info! And zombie! After reading the forums for a few days, it feels like somethin' special having these folks chiming in on the conversation.
Initially I was worried about it looking too obvious that the scoot is modded out, but I've been reassured by two shops that there are practically no laws on the book in my state (I'm in the US) about 49ccs being beyond stock regulation, and the officers here wouldn't know what to look for, anyway (though a BBK is low-risk on getting me in trouble, I'm putting the idea away... reduced reliability isn't worth it).
I got it derestricted today, topped out at 42 on a long down incline, holding 31-32 uphill if I have a good start. It holds the speed for uphill climbs much better at cruising 36 than it was at 30... makes me think weights are a little too heavy/contra spring too light, so first step lower those weights, then an exhaust, then a variator (one I want comes with a white contra spring), then to take zombie and wassonii's advice and get the contra spring switched out for a 1500rpm/red/22% along with 1500rpm clutch springs, then carb and open air filter. Jets along the way. Should I just get a weight set, from 6.5-9.5g or something? I was so excited to ride it I forgot to ask if they changed to a 82 jet... concerns me that my engine may be running on the lean side and I have to drive to work tomorrow and wait until Monday morning for the shop. 20 miles won't hurt it too much if it's running lean, will it? I'm also noticing a spot when first accelerating during the rpm ramp-up, near the very bottom, where there's some extra vibration for half a second occasionally.
I'm now looking at the Malossi multivar at RacingPlanet, and probably the exhaust Peters recommends. The multivar says that some changes in the panels or something may need to be made, due to the different size something. Time to break out the Dremel. The only problem is the multivar says in the description that it's for the 50cc 4-strokes, rather than the 2t, though it's listed as compatible on the site. RacingPlanet is out of the variator that comes with 9g weights for the 2t, but I think the only difference is the 6g weights which I won't need. I guess the variator itself is the same model.
Shopping list so far, not all at once:
Tecnigas Next-R & Flameproof coating
17.5 mm PHBG carb w/manual choke and cable included
1500 RPM Clutch springs
1500 RPM torque/contra spring
Spark plugs
Malossi variator
Variator weight kit
Jets as I mod up
Blue Locktite
Various tools
And I finally figured out the spring terminology thanks to a great simple guide on the CVT ... contra spring = control spring = torque spring != clutch springs = fly springs, but clutch and contra springs both work on the rear pulley. http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?8960-Variator-roller-weights-and-contra-spring-mechanics-for-dummies (http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?8960-Variator-roller-weights-and-contra-spring-mechanics-for-dummies) has helped a lot.
BTW wassonii, sounds like we have the same needs in our scooters. The wind you experience sounds pretty comparable to the hills I have to face here, only with an element of surprise! The graph you posted at the end is amazing... I LOVE GRAPHS. Is there anything like that for the engine we're running that anyone's found? I've searched and searched.
So much to read! Thanks everyone!
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So much to read! Thanks everyone!
We love to help! No condescending a holes on here... Well maybe a few... Darth axy :D
I'd goi for a 19 mm carb if you plan to go to a bbk eventually
I worried about cops getting on my ass about mods too. I've really never been bothered about it though. I've been stopped at several license checks. One time the cop said "damn that thing sounds good, what have you done to it" I replied "performance exhaust" He replied "ok you're good". Another time the cop said "you don't need a license for that thing do you?" Nope. "Ok you're good" ;D. They always get real close and smell my breath :D, but I never drink and scoot... never. I've passed cops doing 50 and tried to slow some, but they never bother me. I know wordslinger got hassled one time but really most of the time you have nothing to worry about.
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I'm now looking at the Malossi multivar at RacingPlanet
..2 week+ lead time on racingplanet multivars right now..
..awesome thread here...
..i just read it...
They always get real close and smell my breath , but I never drink and scoot... never.
..ne neither!!!
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Scratching my head now... Get the 19mm carb instead. The 17.5 will make no difference. The var is correct. I would buy a tuning kit for the rollers. Never buy cheap no brand rollers. With the tuning kit you can play till you get it right, and buy a GOOD set of rollers in the correct weight. The only issue is every time you change a part the roller weight needs adjusting so don't get too picky till you have it all together. The Contra/pipe make the biggest differences in rollers.
Here's the graph: OEM_______I--------pipe---I******contra***I......lean.....I^^^^^^^what the hell^^^^^I...damn it...I_______got it fixed!
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Scratching my head now... Get the 19mm carb instead. The 17.5 will make no difference. The var is correct. I would buy a tuning kit for the rollers. Never buy cheap no brand rollers. With the tuning kit you can play till you get it right, and buy a GOOD set of rollers in the correct weight. The only issue is every time you change a part the roller weight needs adjusting so don't get too picky till you have it all together. The Contra/pipe make the biggest differences in rollers.
Here's the graph: OEM_______I--------pipe---I******contra***I......lean.....I^^^^^^^what the hell^^^^^I...damn it...I_______got it fixed!
;D :D :o :D ;D
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Yo! Slinger! Does Mom know your up so late?
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Really, a 19mm? Why does that surprise me? Weight kit I'm looking at is Polini at http://www.racingplanetusa.com/variator-weights-adjustment-polini-different-categories-p-302-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26382&sessID=1dac4c31688d7efee7209886b8decc7f (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/variator-weights-adjustment-polini-different-categories-p-302-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26382&sessID=1dac4c31688d7efee7209886b8decc7f)
Goodness... I just thought about it... I work at a bar, drive home at 4 am. Looks like less booze for me. Never had to worry on a bicycle :'(
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"Really, a 19mm? Why does that surprise me?"
You tell me? You work in a bar so you KNOW... Bigger is better.
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Bigger is better because I live in 'MERICA!
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Yo! Slinger! Does Mom know your up so late?
..mom says hey boy, and leave her out of it!!
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Bigger is better because I live in 'MERICA!
Damn straight son ;D
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I'm now looking at the Malossi multivar at RacingPlanet
.2 week+ lead time on racingplanet multivars right now..
So what you're saying is that I should go ahead and order it now ::)
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..well, i guess...if you want it inna cpl weeks...
;)
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As far as the listed multivars at racingplanet for the Like 50, do note that they are different malossi part numbers. Malossi 519988 is the one for our scoot. Malossi doesn't 'identify' our scoot yet, but the engine on the Like is the same as the one found in people 50 2t, cobra, & super 9 ac. A lot of shops are currently out of it.
As to carb, the 17.5 would make a slight difference over what is currently in our scoot, since the fuel/air screw can't be adjusted and neither can the needle (without shimming), plus the stock carb is a 16. Although I have found on different forums where a bbk has been used with a 17.5, a 19 (at least) would be preferable. I know you are putting that off for now, but in the long run, for a few dollars more now (should you decide later that a bbk would be best) you will have exactly what you need then and not have to purchase another carb.
If, in the derestriction process, your shop did anything to the carb, you are likely on an 82 main jet, especially if they sell Kymcos. Given that you are on a stock exhaust, if they did not touch the carb (and assuming the previous owner did not as well), you would have a 78 main jet and should be okay, though a little lean (as shipped by Kymco for EPA purposes). I would def get a selection of main jets for tuning purposes. From experience, it is better to have a few on hand rather than having to wait for them to be shipped. For your current (stock) carb, this is where I get mine (and the link is for the exact size thread):http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_99101-116_main_round_small_and_38-xxx.htm (http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_99101-116_main_round_small_and_38-xxx.htm)
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I haven't found any dyno charts using a Like 50, but have found some good exhaust comparison charts.
http://www.tuningmatters.com/2012/05/17/review-the-ultimate-scooter-tuning-exhaust-comparison-test/ (http://www.tuningmatters.com/2012/05/17/review-the-ultimate-scooter-tuning-exhaust-comparison-test/)
and
http://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/stage-6-pro-replica-exhaust-triumphs-exhaust-shootout (http://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/stage-6-pro-replica-exhaust-triumphs-exhaust-shootout)
though the first link has a broader list comparison.
Also regarding variator removal/re-install (for when you are tuning), pedparts has a nice little write-up for something not to overlook:
http://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/variator-fitting-crankshaft-spline-damage (http://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/variator-fitting-crankshaft-spline-damage)
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thoughts on carb venturi size with some good links:
http://49ccscoot.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=2perform&action=display&thread=4428 (http://49ccscoot.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=2perform&action=display&thread=4428)
Compilation of data from Mikuni and Dellorto in graph form (bear in mind that totally stock, the Like produces about 4.5hp):
http://49ccscoot.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=carb&action=display&thread=1366 (http://49ccscoot.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=carb&action=display&thread=1366)
Pedparts dynos on an Aerox using stock (12), 17.5 and 19 venturi sizes:
http://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/yamaha-aerox-carb-comparison (http://www.pedparts.co.uk/blog/yamaha-aerox-carb-comparison)
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+1 :)
Great links wassonii
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Mille grazie. I've been doing some research and collecting infos, so it's nice to share when able.
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wass, you're a boss! Thanks for all that info, you're awesome!
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It's an awful lot to digest, but some of it I wish I had when I was just embarking on my scooterist adventures.
I don't have the practical knowledge some of these other cats have (yet), but I can at least pass on some knowledge while I am doing my own research. Heck, I only just delved into my own clutch and variator about a week ago for the first time.
But, knowledge IS power and there is much info lacking on this particular model. The more we do to and learn from our scoots, the more we can pass on, both successes and failures, for the next person. Too, shared knowledge is doubly powerful.
Always bear in mind that no 2 scoots are going to give the same end-result, even if they were assembled one after the other at the factory, but there are some fortunate commonalities.
I dig my little Silent Sport, but am interested to find out what an expansion chamber does for this model. Def keep the forum updated with your progress!
Oh, and as to technical manuals:
In the Like 50 heading of the forum, I linked to a 50/125 manual. Some of the info in it is golden, but many of the pics are exclusive to the 125, fyi
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In doing some further research, Scooter Invasion (an excellent forum in its' own right - def check it out) has a great entry about set-up profiles with good infos on recommended set-ups with different cylinders/exhausts/carbs.
http://www.scooterinvasion.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=253 (http://www.scooterinvasion.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=253)
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Yep!
They are actually based in my town. I think local members still meet monthly too.
To be honest I kinda forgot about Scooter Invasion. Zombie and Areomyst are members. I think I am too :D
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I sure am! :D
I never posted anything though
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In doing my own carb research, I am beginning to wonder if, regardless of the size I end up with, I shouldn't look into an aftermarket intake manifold. I haven't measured the diameter of the stock one, but I'm thinking it is likely smaller (i.e. restricted) than older versions of this Kymco engine.
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SI is great, though much of what I read there is way beyond my capabilities. Still learn a thing or two, though.
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Interesting, wassonii. One thing I realized a few days ago that's odd is that the CDI is not restricted on this bike at all, despite that all versions of this engine's use has had one in the past. It seems like the Like 50 is their first bike that uses a combination of restrictions besides CDI to slow it down out of the box, and even with the factory derestrictions it's not gone as fast as many of Kymco's others using the same engine would derestricted. It makes sense, too, that the intake manifold could be one aspect.
Been reading a lot of conflicting evidence for plug chops, but I found a really cool app for the iPhone that allows you to secure the device in the vehicle and do test runs to determine tuning efficiency. Dynolicious. Apparently it's nearly as good as an actual dyno and it's only $13. There are other comparable apps for the Android market, too. Wouldn't this work pretty well to dial in the right jets later on, as you know it's running at the right fuel ratio when it's at top performance (and this can measure performance much more accurately than we can through subjective methods).
Also besides the weights, immediately I'm not going to do any modifications. I'm still only at 400 miles and need to break the engine in more before I start pushing it.
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Not the first. My 2010 People 2t has no rev limiter(CDI restriction). Was also very restricted in other ways.
Tuning requires knowledge, keen eyes, ears, and ability to just feel how the engine is running. Experience is everything. I doubt a smartphone app can replace those things. Could be cool to play with though :)
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Two links regarding plug chops that I have found helpful are:
http://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Plug_chop (http://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Plug_chop)
and
http://battlescooter.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Tuning&action=display&thread=299 (http://battlescooter.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Tuning&action=display&thread=299)
With regard to the cdi, the jury is still out as to whether there is any restriction to it on these machines. The company line is, as you noted, that they are not. At the very least, the thought is that the curve is somewhat retarded. Offered through racing planet is an "unrestricted" version of our cdi, but there are other things I need to pay for before shelling out to try it out.
The app does sound cool, just make sure to have a case for the phone before trying it out, lest grease get in your ear:)
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Bunches of stuff... "Zombie and Areomyst are members." Areo owns the SI forum, and a business called "The Scooter Garage". He keeps the two separate, and I respect the HELL out of the guy for all he does for us. Areo has access to some of the worlds best tuners, and he always has a positive view point. I trust his advice.
As for the restricted cdi... There is no "rev limiter" on the People/S9/whatever model. They use a retarded timing curve that kicks in at approx 8k rpm. The same rpm that most after market pipes hit. Malossi makes a replacement cdi that is expensive, and addresses the issue but only till 9k rpm. Their cdi will let a pipe work but not for long. The only true "de-restriction" is using a custom programmable cdi, and that is only needed if you are nuts for a few more top end mph. $300-600.00 nuts.
The 13.00 "dyno app" can be made with a stop watch, and a stripe on the road. Crap!
I like the idea of tweaking the intake... That's the biggest design flaw on the engine. Unfortunately to re-work that takes some fab skills, and a welder. Lots of guys cut larger pipe, and weld it to the flanges of the OEM intake. If there is a better store made intake... IDK.
The only issue in tuning the Peop/S9 is the lack of parts for that Specific engine. There is some good stuff avail. but not alot of choices, and the intake has always been the weakest link. Perhaps you can find another model scoot that has one to adapt, and share it with us!!!
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Alright fellas, looks like I have a problem. Just arrived at work after riding six miles and it cut off as soon as I stopped and won't start. Battery is fine, kick start wouldn't work either. Tried using full throttle to clear the carb to no avail, let it cool down and it's still not starting. Never got the chance to adjust the idle screw and I did ride in rain last night, but it was fine on the way, riding nicely. I'm going to be here for the next eight or ten hours before I can start trying to figure out what's wrong, but I need it to get home :'(
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Check for spark, and then a compression test. Most auto parts will "rent" a compression tester for a few dollars. You need to be over 120psi for it to run. At 90psi it may fire but will not run. Below 90psi... nothing.
Hate to say ... Check the Kill switch!
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Hate to say ... Check the Kill switch!
Yep! That's the last thing the dealer mechanic said to me as I rolled off the lot. I thought "I know that". But he was right I've done it a few times.
If that's not it, I'm willing to bet the plug wire popped off the plug. Gotta be something stupid :)
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Well, uh, this is awkward. Kill switch was on :-\
Glad it was so so simple, though!
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:D :D :D
It happens. Glad it was simple :)
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It happens to everyone. Very glad that was all!
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Asshole! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D That will be 40.00 please. Donate it to the "Unwanted Ginger League"
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So, quite the long shopping list I have here. After reading all that's been said by wassonii and all you other guys, I've decided to include the intake manifold and 19mm carb as part of it. My only real concern, with all this, is that it's going to be too much to handle for a newbie. Setting up a carb from scratch with a new exhaust seems like quite the endeavor, so that'll be first. I have to have correct needle and jets, and so many little pieces and parts to make sure are correct... for someone who really hasn't personally done a ton of mechanical work, it seems like a lot. Also I've read most mopeds need a new throttle assembly to properly operate an aftermarket carb... one more thing to get.
Anyway, I'm ordering a LONG list of parts tomorrow afternoon so they'll arrive in a couple of weeks (including intake manifold and spacer wassonii linked and seemingly a million other little items), then I'm taking a week off of work for a little vacation time at home 'cause I need it, but mainly so I have plenty of time to work on the scoot and install each part piecemeal. I'm not really concerned about the money I'll have to spend on this, but I am concerned about actually getting it to run correctly, not killing it in the process, and getting all the parts I need in one or two orders. The carb is most disconcerting. How serious is it going to be if I start it up with the wrong needle, for example? Should I go ahead and order multiple needles, along with the jets? Also, like I said, money isn't really an issue for this (I saved so much buying slightly used that I'm waaaay under budget), so I'm considering the Leo Vince ZX-R rather than the Tecnigas Next R or LV TT. I've read the performance difference is worth it, but I'd rather ask the experts first.
SO MANY PARTS TO CONSIDER, SO LITTLE TIME! :D
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Check around the forum to see what jet set-up others are using with that pipe. I would think that a main jet selection from 88 or 90 - 110 would be a good kit with which to start. I know that Zombie has recommended a selection of needles in another thread.
Dellorto Links:
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/mg_manuals/dellorto_manual.pdf (http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/mg_manuals/dellorto_manual.pdf)
http://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Dellorto (http://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Dellorto)
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/dellorto_slide_needle.htm#gtb_slide_needle_specifications_for__phbg_motorcycle_carburetors_-w_slides- (http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/dellorto_slide_needle.htm#gtb_slide_needle_specifications_for__phbg_motorcycle_carburetors_-w_slides-)
One step at a time and you will be fine. Now I am jelly:)
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Forgive me if I have repeated myself in any of those links. You absolutely can do this. Make sure you have some good tools on hand and blue loctite. The world is your oyster with them. And rags.
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Don't even worry about repeating yourself. While I have seen most of what you linked, I'll be rereading again and again, and thisoldtractor.com's is the one I haven't seen. More info is always better! Thanks again!
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The one thing I can't seem to find is a 19mm plug kit, like this only bigger http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-mounting-dellorto-carburetor-plug-mounting-p-448-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-mounting-dellorto-carburetor-plug-mounting-p-448-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad)
... any advice? I think the 19mm Malossi carb kit would come with everything I need, but I'm not sure. I feel like it's missing a couple key parts for that aftermarket intake manifold. Racingplanet is out of it anyway, but I'm looking around the web.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-malossi-phbg-19mm-kymco-sf10-p-314-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-malossi-phbg-19mm-kymco-sf10-p-314-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=8daad231bd2b7945f800b06bc850e5ad)
EDIT: I'm sure with some parts from Ace Hardware or Lowe's I could make the plug mount, anyway.
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Where is the vacuum port for the fuel tank located on your bike? I ask because the Delorto may not have one in that "plug". You may have to get the one that fits the ZX50 instead. As for needles you really don't HAVE to get a set but if you like things to work their best they make a big difference. The best advice I can give is start HUGE on jets, and work down. Get a set from 140-120 to start. You will wind up with lots of leftovers but it is better than not having the correct one. Yoy may wind up at some random number like 107 but better to spend now, and save later. Also see what your pilot jet is OEM, and get one 2-3 sizes bigger so you have something rich enough to break the engine in on. You will want at least 200 miles of subdued riding (1/2 throttle max) to seat the rings before you even try wot runs.
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Vac for the carb is on the manifold. OEM pilot jet is 35
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I had actually written to Steve at Moped Hospital at the end of last week to see if the Motorio manifolds they have are compatible with the Like. He hasn't yet replied.
http://www.mhr-usa.com/intakes/manifolds/motorio-intake-manifolds-for-kymco.html (http://www.mhr-usa.com/intakes/manifolds/motorio-intake-manifolds-for-kymco.html)
I am primarily interested to see if the one pictured at center will fit.
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Vac for the carb is on the manifold. OEM pilot jet is 35
Get a 37-38 for the new carb. Ask what it comes w/ cause you may get one you want in it.
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I had actually written to Steve at Moped Hospital at the end of last week to see if the Motorio manifolds they have are compatible with the Like. He hasn't yet replied.
http://www.mhr-usa.com/intakes/manifolds/motorio-intake-manifolds-for-kymco.html (http://www.mhr-usa.com/intakes/manifolds/motorio-intake-manifolds-for-kymco.html)
I am primarily interested to see if the one pictured at center will fit.
It's none of those in the link.
This is what you want http://www.racingplanetusa.com/intake-manifold-20mm-racing-kymco-p-250-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=d52f2f8abc8a67d92c87650c279491ff (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/intake-manifold-20mm-racing-kymco-p-250-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=d52f2f8abc8a67d92c87650c279491ff)
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Yeah zombie, that's the intake manifold I'm ordering.
When you're saying to take it easy at 1/2 throttle for 200 miles or so, you mean after I get the new carb and pipe? I'm at almost 700 miles now, thought I'd be broken in by this time, but do you recommend that because the pipe will be pushing the engine so much more?
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It's none of those in the link.
This is what you want http://www.racingplanetusa.com/intake-manifold-20mm-racing-kymco-p-250-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=d52f2f8abc8a67d92c87650c279491ff (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/intake-manifold-20mm-racing-kymco-p-250-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=d52f2f8abc8a67d92c87650c279491ff)
I want one! ;D
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I want one! ;D
I'm getting it but it'll probably sit in a closet for a while... seems like one of the last things I should put on in this whole process.
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Given the main jets to which he is referring, I think he is still under the impression a bbk will be installed, too, though I wouldn't presume to speak for him. You will want a good range of jets for dialing in, though.
That intake is the one at which I have been looking, too. It seems that it is closest to what Kymco was putting on their early People model (which, sans the restrictions we see now, would get up to about 60mph once broken in. My local dealer/mech has a 2001 and that thing, with no mods, will cruise at 50-55 and never need full throttle).
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With all the posts I do get lost... The break in is done. You will be fine jetting, and beating it into the ground.
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To be fair I put 400 miles on it in two weeks. What do you mean you couldn't keep up with my mileage over the world wide interwebs?!?!
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In searching for part numbers I found this 19mm Malossi carb at Scooterworks. It doesn't list it as being compatible with the Like... but it's the same part number. I'm thinking it'll work and was just wondering what anyone here had to say about it. Looks like it comes with most everything I need... right?
http://www.scooterworks.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=2328&CategoryId=712 (http://www.scooterworks.com/Product.aspx?ProductId=2328&CategoryId=712)
Plus http://www.racingplanetusa.com/spacer-20mm-intake-manifold-insulator-spacer-20mm-with-oring-p-2284-1.html?sessID=ee481e9d17a7b2c765fd4563330df400 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/spacer-20mm-intake-manifold-insulator-spacer-20mm-with-oring-p-2284-1.html?sessID=ee481e9d17a7b2c765fd4563330df400)
for http://www.racingplanetusa.com/intake-manifold-20mm-racing-kymco-p-250-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=ee481e9d17a7b2c765fd4563330df400 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/intake-manifold-20mm-racing-kymco-p-250-1.html?cPath=2_26378_26380&sessID=ee481e9d17a7b2c765fd4563330df400)
But what am I missing here?
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Everything but jets. I have the same one, and it goes on all the projects I build first. I also use it for seeing what customers bikes can do.
You have to remove the float bowl to jet so order 6-7 extra gasket sets. The same for the slide cap. You also may need the 90* adapter for the cable. Otherwise it sticks up to far to fit under the plastics.
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90o kit for the choke or the throttle?
I'm guessing throttle.
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Throttle. The choke should come with a cable kit to extend/mount where you like. It's about 8" long (the choke cable for sure). I actually bought the choke conversion so it has no cable but I have room to reach the carb. Many scoots do not.
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Things finally went through at my bank and I can start ordering... but wouldn't ya know RacingPlanet is out of the 20mm insulator gaskets now... they had them 24 hours ago. Damn. Called Scootertronics and they're having a hard time getting them as well. There's this intake manifold kit at exportstrength.com that says they have it but I've not heard of anyone dealing with them. Are they reliable? It'd take a little extra time to get here from them anyway, so I'm going to hold off for the intake manifold at least.
http://www.exportstrength.com/product_info.php?products_id=662 (http://www.exportstrength.com/product_info.php?products_id=662)
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I hadn't heard of them as exportstrength, but as taipei scooter assassins they appear to have a decent rep at the 49cc forum http://49ccscoot.proboards.com/index.cgi (http://49ccscoot.proboards.com/index.cgi)
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ah yes, I see in the comments where they are referred to as exportstrength
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Thanks wass! Ordered it, all I'm lacking now is ordering an exhaust! Can't wait to get started on this...
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I had 2 orders that I NEVER received from Scoot Ass. Luckily I used Paypal to try them out. They mainly sell china junk but they do carry some good items, and their prices are great. I'd suggest paypal if using them. That way you at least get your cash back.
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Well, good reviews so far for the shipping at Racing Planet, Scooterworks, Treatland, and so so for Scooter Assassins. Racing Planet upgraded me to 3-day FedEx for free, even after already free shipping. All provided trackable shipping and are en route except Scooterworks which is already here (fast!). Scooter Assassins has been the slowest, but it is coming from Taiwan to be fair.
Can't wait for the exhaust more than anything, especially since I have the Malossi 19mm PHBG already. It hasn't shipped yet but I know the Like is gonna fly once those two are changed out and it's tuned! My guess is that it'll take a 110 or so, can't imagine after the intake manifold gets put on. The highest jet (125) I'll have might not even be enough. Still haven't ordered a variator, either.
I'm wondering if I'm really doing too much and am going to start sacrificing reliability eventually, especially with the manifold.
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You are not sacrificing reliability, just opening up the pores, a cleansing, if you will. You are allowing the 50cc to do what it was meant to do.
Just make sure everything is cleaned off before you install the new mani - no debris in the engine!
Get the mani, carb, and exhaust installed correctly (to where it runs a little rich) and then worry about the cvt. I would advise some aluminum tape to seal things off as you install the next part, etc.
This is uncharted territory for me, so I am learning through this as well.
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From all I have seen in scooters once you dial in the engine it is the CVT that takes all the abuse. Our cranks are great as is. Same for all the bearings. It's the rollers, belt, var, and drive boss that take a beating. A once a year full replacement of the cvt is the best medicine. Maybe a new set of rings too.
The real key is to install everything with precision. The more prep/measuring you do the longer the build will last. If you are unsure about a measurement ask. Get a set of calipers too.
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I've already bought a nice set of digital calipers that's sensitive to .01 mm +-.005. It's just a waiting game for parts right now. Gonna start a new thread with pictures for the build.
Random question, anyone have an opinion on this belt? It's already on the way and I figured it was probably pretty close to stock and just wanted to have an extra.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/drive-belt-naraku-kymco-4stroke-horizontal-p-5560-1.html?sessID=430ecb5ebcc6dff26a94d16f93caa680 (http://www.racingplanetusa.com/drive-belt-naraku-kymco-4stroke-horizontal-p-5560-1.html?sessID=430ecb5ebcc6dff26a94d16f93caa680)
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Gonna start a new thread with pictures for the build.
Awesome!!!
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Damn... so the carb I received has a 4-stroke atomizer and bushing in it, even though it has the 4 gram float made for 2-strokes. Have to order those parts new now which is pretty irritating, should I get the AU-262 here
https://www.treatland.tv/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DELLORTO-PHBG-ATOMIZER-AU (https://www.treatland.tv/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=DELLORTO-PHBG-ATOMIZER-AU)
and the bushing here?
https://www.treatland.tv/dellorto-PHBG-bushing-AU-p/dellorto-phbg-bushing-au.htm (https://www.treatland.tv/dellorto-PHBG-bushing-AU-p/dellorto-phbg-bushing-au.htm)
Maybe the shop near me will be willing to trade them out for me but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Still haven't heard anything about my exhaust from Speed Addict... patience is a virtue or something... GAH I WANNA DO THIS.
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I know how much it sucks. Waiting is the hardest part of scooter building here. Thank god for the net!
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According to this page http://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/How_To_Tune_PHBG_Carburetors (http://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/How_To_Tune_PHBG_Carburetors) :
"NOTE:If you have reed valves
If you're running the thick stiff reeds you will be fine with running the four stroke AN bushing just by running a richer or leaner AN atomizer, because reed valves reduce the intakes back flow/charge out the carb and back in. The soft reeds will reduce less of the intakes back flow/charge. ...But every set up and combination will be deferent to tune in. "
This is a small quote from the "Atomizers & Slides" section. I can't remember if you are changing your reeds, too. Forgive me if you are already familiar with this article, just trying to be helpful.
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Yeah I read that as well. Not sure which would be cheaper or more efficient, replacing the steel reeds with stiffer carbon fiber reeds or replacing the atomizer bushing and atomizer. I've already ordered the latter so I'm just going to go with that.
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As always, I wouldn't dream of speaking for Zombie, but I guarantee he'd say get some cf reeds.
As to the atomiser, you are prolly best off to just get what is right for a 2 stroke, so good on you!
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I've never had to mess w/atomizers for any engine. It a jet fits it gets atomized. Reeds you can feel. .030mm is great all around, and 035 is for higher rpm engines 10k+ rpm. I'm trying some home made 2 stage reeds. Using 020/035 Boysen
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Hey there. How are things progressing with the scoot?