KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 125 to 300 => Downtown 300 => Topic started by: TANWare on May 05, 2011, 09:34:13 PM
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Well the topic states the stock plug for our bikes. I am kind of dissapointed they didn't go with the CR7EIX though. The Iridium plugs have proven themselves over stock. So I've ordered mine............
NGK Iridium sparkplug dyno test by cyclesolutionsonline.com boxoflube.com (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A9_7RtFoZ4#)
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I should note, Taiwan has a spark plug but it isn't available here. VTA 3D now this looks like a plug.........
VTA 3D SPARK PLUG vs NKG DENSO BOSCH Champion SplitFire BRISK SPARK PLUG (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HikB3eXBb78#)
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I got my new plugs last night (NGK CR7EIX) and put it in this morning. What a pain to do the plug but is can be done without removing tupperware.
Impression once warmed up.
1.) Idle can now smoothly go down to 1,600 RPM.
2.) Power is much smoother from low RPM.
3.) Cruise at 25 MPH, apr. 3,500 RPM, is generally smoother, it did not feel like it wanted to stall before but at the throttle it was holding back.
4.) Acceleration form any roll speed is noticeably stronger at 50% throttle.
5.) Acceleration from a roll before seemed progressive, it started pulling but took 1/2 a second or so to build the pull, now it is immediate.
6.) I was not comfortable enough with the rolling acceleration at 50% throttle to ride in the speed lane on our local highway, now I have no hesitation in doing so.
7.) The sound is slightly throatier when accelerating, has more of that high performance sound.
Now there is no miracle here making the bike into a rolling rocket but it is amazing what a simple low cost change can do.
(IMHO) I attribute the change to our small combustion chamber. A normal plug can fire on any edge of the electrode and this then changes the plume profile inside the cylinder on every stroke. On a small chamber engine this makes for an even greater variance as the plume has less time and volume in the chamber to even out compared to larger cylinders. With the inconsistency the ECU and EFI are constently adjusting themselves for the worst case of the firing. This is probably also why those split fire or multi electrode plugs usually do nothing for these engines.
With the small electrode of the Iridium plug the spark location is fixed and therefore the plume is more consistent. This allows the ECU and EFI to keep the engine running more optimally for the relative RPM and throttle position. Hopefully in time this may result in even better gas mileage from having to get into the throttle less. Hopefully not worse mileage from having fun and getting into the throttle more........... :)
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I too noticed an improvement with the iridium plugs in my scooters , but some of the forum members insisted that it was not true . I am glad you were not only able to confirm the improvement and explain the reason so eloquently . Thanks .
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I think you really need an ECU and even EFI to truly benefit. Since others are timing and/or mixture locked for the worst case scenario, unless you go out of spec with those. Specifically tune them for the plug or you probably will see little to no difference at all.........
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What is the easy way to get to the spark plug? Under the seat?
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Easy I am not sure of. I took a ratchet wrench from underneath.
1.) Place the bike on the center stand
2.) Lie down to access underneath from the air cleaner side. Feet to the rear.
3.) There is a forward plate underneath going to the rear swing arm where there is a gap before the swing arm. Use this area for access.
4.) Pull of the plastic/rubber cap of the wire from the plug.
5.) Use the ratchet wrench to loosen the plug.
6.) Remove the ratchet and us the supplied spark plug wrench to spin out the plug.
7.) The new plug needs the end cap removed to just show the threads.
8.) Start the new plug by hand.
9.) Use the supplied sparkplug wrench to spin in the new plug
10.) Tighten with the ratchet wrench.
11.) Replace the plastic/rubber end cap for the plug wire.
Now with the ratchet wrench you may one get 1-3 clicks or so at a time but that is enough to loosen the plug. Twist back and forth as you press the cap back on the plug, if you listen carefully you will hear it slightly click as it goes over the threads while it presses in.
Edit, this video best demonstrates what I mean by the spark can be anywhere on the plug and this naturally changes the plume profile.
Normal plug(left)　Iridium plug(right)　Comparison (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS4MV2pELyU#)
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It sounds like these plugs are getting the job done! I have a friend who thinks Bosch plugs are the best around. He tells me I should put in the Bosch plugs. What do you say Tanware?
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I have no real brand loyalty, though I have heard good about Bosch as well. It is more the materials but there can be between the brands quality issues. If bosch makes an Iridium I wouldn't hesitate either so long as you stay in the heat range......................
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These are the Bosch hybrid Iridium/Platinum plugs:
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-FGR8DQI-Platinum-Fusion-Spark/dp/B000PL2AZC (http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-FGR8DQI-Platinum-Fusion-Spark/dp/B000PL2AZC)
These are the Denso Iridium plugs:
http://www.amazon.com/Denso-IK20-Iridium-Spark-Plug/dp/B000M6UR82/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1305673407&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Denso-IK20-Iridium-Spark-Plug/dp/B000M6UR82/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1305673407&sr=1-1)
These are the Pulstar Iridium plugs:
http://www.amazon.com/Pulstar-be1i-Iridium-Pulse-Spark/dp/B003MOA25O/ref=sr_1_5?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1305673407&sr=1-5 (http://www.amazon.com/Pulstar-be1i-Iridium-Pulse-Spark/dp/B003MOA25O/ref=sr_1_5?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1305673407&sr=1-5)
It seems that there are quite a few manufacturers of these plugs.
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The Bosh or Denso should be fine. I have an issue with PulseStar. here goes aand will ry an keep as lay as possible. They use a high dischargecapacitor to for a lack of better term flahs a high voltge ark. There in lies issues;
1.) to let this flash off time needs to be spent charging the capacitor.
2.) since RPMs and the capacitor charge time doesn't the flash will occur at various timings off/after TDC.
3.) capacitors as they electronically wear out will hold less before the flah again varying timings off/after TDC
So essentially without a remap the plugs may do little to nothing or even be a detriment over a regular Iridium. even with a proper remap it may need remapping again as the capacitor wears.
Now the advertise a faster plume, which is great but again what is the benefit is the plume starts later from charging the capacitor?
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I have changed the spark plug to CR7EIX.
Now I feel the different what you have talking about. (In hungarian we have a frase for this "the diffenrence is like sky and earth")
I felt before this hesitation between 4000 and 5000 rpm, now it is disappierd. The engine is smoother. Totally different feeling...
So thank everybody!! And let's buy IRIDIUM plug, just the best for our baby!! :D :D
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Putting mine in tomorrow. :) ;D
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What doesn't matter much to a car... matters a lot to a small scooter engine.... fuel quality, spark plugs, battery size, tires, even the weight of the rider! Before, I was a sceptic that all gasoline brands are the same as long as you get the right octane... However, after making lots of experiments on different gasoline brands, I found out that each perform differently from each other in my scooter... One may not see a big difference between copper and iridium plugs in a car but a big difference in a scooter...
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I always looking for the cheap modifications. Less money, much changing. Optimizing the system. The spark plug is like that. And the Dr. pulley rollers, the hot grips, etc... I won't buy a sport-exhaust for 500euros :(
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What doesn't matter much to a car... matters a lot to a small scooter engine.... fuel quality, spark plugs, battery size, tires, even the weight of the rider! Before, I was a sceptic that all gasoline brands are the same as long as you get the right octane... However, after making lots of experiments on different gasoline brands, I found out that each perform differently from each other in my scooter... One may not see a big difference between copper and iridium plugs in a car but a big difference in a scooter...
How true, with my TNG I could never use gas from SA because it would always gum up the carb real bad. Have not used any in the DT either , not worth the risk of maybe clogging the EFI jets.
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I just replaced my stock plug with the Iridium, major difference on the Kymco. Smooth idle and acceleration so far.
A bigger difference than on my old Piaggio MP3.
Well worth it. I found them at www.sparkplugauto.com (http://www.sparkplugauto.com) for $5.66 for a CR7EIX + delivery. very good deal.
This cheapest price I could find. I just order 2 today.
I only have 200 miles on the bike so it's the plug a new bike with new plug that is the onkly change I made and what a difference.
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I just replaced my stock plug with the Iridium, major difference on the Kymco. Smooth idle and acceleration so far.
Are you sure it wasn't just putting in a new plug that made the difference? I am not saying it didn't, but if the original was old, just putting in a fresh plug can make a big difference.
I can tell when my Zuma needs a new plug by how well it accelerates off of idle.
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Are you sure it wasn't just putting in a new plug that made the difference? I am not saying it didn't, but if the original was old, just putting in a fresh plug can make a big difference.
I can tell when my Zuma needs a new plug by how well it accelerates off of idle.
i think it is the plug. I just replaced mine a few days ago and the old one was really black after only 350 miles on it. The perfomance of the new plug is a lot better then the standard plug.
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If your plug was real black, you need a tune up, talk to a mechanic, your new plug will get black too,.
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(http://performanceunlimited.com/illustrations/img106.gif)
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I just replaced my stock plug with the Iridium, major difference on the Kymco. Smooth idle and acceleration so far.
A bigger difference than on my old Piaggio MP3.
Well worth it. I found them at www.sparkplugauto.com (http://www.sparkplugauto.com) for $5.66 for a CR7EIX + delivery. very good deal.
This cheapest price I could find. I just order 2 today.
Haha I like this price-differences around the world... You paid 5,66USD for a plug. In Hungary, the cheapest price was 23USD for the same item :o :o... If somebody can tell me why, I pay a beer...
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Haha I like this price-differences around the world... You paid 5,66USD for a plug. In Hungary, the cheapest price was 23USD for the same item :o :o... If somebody can tell me why, I pay a beer...
In the Philippines, around 12-13 U.S. Dollars... Lots of factors dictate prices Sir... Taxes, middle men, premium on fad, supply and demand...etc.
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If your plug was real black, you need a tune up, talk to a mechanic, your new plug will get black too,.
After 350 miles?? It's brand new.
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it is brand new ! if it is out of tune , it is not worn out , just needs tuning
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After 350 miles?? It's brand new.
The more you need to consider tuning... ;)
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Good day!
Im about to order this little miracle,
I want to get the right one 🤥
Is this it?
www.ebay.com/p/NGK-7385-Iridium-IX-Spark-Plugs-CR7EIX/171244823 (http://www.ebay.com/p/NGK-7385-Iridium-IX-Spark-Plugs-CR7EIX/171244823)
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Yes. CR7EIX
Good day!
Im about to order this little miracle,
I want to get the right one 🤥
Is this it?
www.ebay.com/p/NGK-7385-Iridium-IX-Spark-Plugs-CR7EIX/171244823 (http://www.ebay.com/p/NGK-7385-Iridium-IX-Spark-Plugs-CR7EIX/171244823)
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Yes. CR7EIX
Thanks kneeslider!
Ordered know, halfprice vs sweden
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Cheers.
Thanks kneeslider!
Ordered know, halfprice vs sweden
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My main gripe about the Iridium spark plug is that....on a rainy old day - with wet flurries expected - and you're wanting to do something good to your scooter - you'll feel pretty dumb if you change your Iridium plug.*
Dumb things'll probably last till the Rapture.
Stig
* and WHY do you even have a second Iridium plug? You'll be too old to remember where you put it- before you'll ever need it!
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My main gripe about the Iridium spark plug is that....on a rainy old day - with wet flurries expected - and you're wanting to do something good to your scooter - you'll feel pretty dumb if you change your Iridium plug.*
Dumb things'll probably last till the Rapture.
Stig
* and WHY do you even have a second Iridium plug? You'll be too old to remember where you put it- before you'll ever need it!
Sorry Stig but i dont really understand what you mean?
If it was to me i have the orginal spark.
As a Swedish bloak i dont get everything in English 🤠😄
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Sorry Stig but i dont really understand what you mean?
If it was to me i have the orginal spark.
As a Swedish bloak i dont get everything in English 🤠😄
No worries mate......I joke around too much. (the "you" was me)
Yes, good plug.
They're not magic - but, for the $, a good addition to a scooter.
Stig
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No worries mate......I joke around too much. (the "you" was me)
Yes, good plug.
They're not magic - but, for the $, a good addition to a scooter.
Stig
👍🕺
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He could send it to me before he loses it..........
Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk
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Thing with an Iridium plug vs a standard plug. I feel that the only advantage is the convenience of it for having a long service life. I am not too concerned of an additional 1hp on the butt-dyno.
Assuming it has a 50000km service life and that it won't have a failour is those 5yrs, perhaps then it would be worth it, but I rather a fresh plug every 15000km.
Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk
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Thing with an Iridium plug vs a standard plug. I feel that the only advantage is the convenience of it for having a long service life. I am not too concerned of an additional 1hp on the butt-dyno.
Assuming it has a 50000km service life and that it won't have a failour is those 5yrs, perhaps then it would be worth it, but I rather a fresh plug every 15000km.
Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk
Some real strange owners replace an Iridium about that often....I've heard.
Get bonus of Iridium plus fun of tinkering with scoot!
Stig
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Thing with an Iridium plug vs a standard plug. I feel that the only advantage is the convenience of it for having a long service life. I am not too concerned of an additional 1hp on the butt-dyno.
Assuming it has a 50000km service life and that it won't have a failour is those 5yrs, perhaps then it would be worth it, but I rather a fresh plug every 15000km.
Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk
I have replaced a NEW standard spark plug with a NEW iridium plug. I could not tell the difference. I am certain though that if I replaced an OLD standard plug with a new iridium, there would be an increase in performance. ;) I believe many people do this and assign the performance increase to the plug type, not the plug condition. I would like to hear if someone else has done an apples to apples comparison and get their feedback. Personally I like to change plugs a little more often just to see if the engine is burning correctly but there is nothing wrong with the iridium's.
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Seldom will changing the plug make a huge difference in flat out performance . That would require bumping the displacement, and/or changing the factory programming, changing the final delivery gearing, slider weights and such. What I did notice was faster start up, when cold, and a more consistent idle, plus the iridium plug will last longer the any other type of plug.
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Way back when my LIKE200i had just a few miles on it I replaced the plug with an Iridium. Did the same on the Burgman and the Piaggio when they were new. The only reason I did not make the change on the Forza was because there was no Iridium version.
In each case I noted a smoother idle going from new to new.
By far it is the least expensive, easiest, mod to three scooter engines (and two Scions) - with noticeable + change in my limited experience.
Plus...threading in these tiny plugs in alloy engines always makes me a little nervous. So, the less often I have to do it ,the better I like it.
If I notice no other performance improvements - $10 once every few years to obtain a nice, more stable idle, while sitting in heavy traffic on my scooter is, to me....$ well spent.
My cheap tachometer did pick up the change in idle rpms, and rpm steadiness - when replacing the new NGK with new Iridium NGK in my new LIKE200i engine. Also, my new Burgman never died at a light again after making the change. True, not an unknown, and a temporary issue for new Burgman engines - but I only let it happen once before parking the Burg till I bought the Iridium plug.
Stig