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Messages - gtexan

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General Discussion / Complicated battery issue. Is it dead or not?
« on: August 22, 2008, 01:52:26 PM »
I am having a complicated battery issue.  I posted part of this in another thread, but I thought I'd start a new one just to clarify everything a little more easily (and no so many words!)

I have a 2002 bet & win 250.  The battery is a 12BS 12V10AH battery, which is 1.5 years old.

If I attach the battery to the charger and leave it overnight, the scooter starts up easily and quickly.
If I drive the scooter to run errands, when I go back to the scooter, it starts up easily and quickly.
If I drive the scooter around, and then try to start it 1 day later, it starts up easily and quickly.

If I leave the scooter for more than 2 days, when I try to start the scooter, it will not start easily.

If I try and start it, the "battery indicator" says it has 2/6 charge and this drops to 0 on the first push of the starter button.  The digital display goes blank, and the clock resets to 0:00.  If I prime the engine, and repeatedly try to start it, eventually I can always get it started.  Sometimes it takes a good 2-5 minutes of this and requires a lot of throttle twisting before it will start.

Naturally, I thought the battery was dead.  I put it on its charger, and left it overnight.  I took it to 2 battery places.

1. Nappa Auto Parts - They tested it and said it read 13V and 200 CC AMPs.  They said it was a good battery

2. Battery Specialist (local) - They tested it with 3 testers. 
The first said it was 12.8V and 180 CC Amps.  Good battery.
The second said it was 12.8V and 200 CC Amps.  Good battery.
The third test put something that he called a "mechanical load" on the battery, which he explained was basically a short.  As soon as he put the load on the battery, it dropped from "good battery" to "bad battery"

He then put it back on the first tester and it said 12.8V and 160 CC AMPs.  Marginal battery.
He said he thinks its a bad battery.




I would believe this guy, but he also tested a "new" battery he had sitting on the shelf.  He said it was a bad brand, and he had been having a lot of trouble with it.  It also failed the "mechanical load" test.  As I have no idea what this test is doing, and because the more sophisticated testing equipment said "good battery," I don't really know what to think. 

If a battery is dead and only holds a surface charge, will it still say 12.8V and 200 AMPs? 

2
General Discussion / Re: Electric Starter Problem
« on: August 22, 2008, 01:33:43 PM »
Wow!! You are a genius!  I actually managed to just try it using compressed air and pressing the starter a few times.  After a few clicks and a few sprays, it started right up and has been working ever since.  Thanks!!

3
General Discussion / Electric Starter Problem
« on: August 21, 2008, 04:12:32 PM »
Last night when I tried to start my scooter, I got no response at all from the starter.  Usually you have to hold down the left brake to connect the starter, and then press the starter to star the scooter.  If you don't press the left brake, there is no connection between the starter and the electrical system.  Last night, even though I was pressing the left brake (and the stop light was turning on) I got no power to my starter switch.  No noise, no anything. 

I put the battery into a tender and let it charge, and then put it back in my scooter.  The turn signals worked fine.  The lights worked fine.  The stop light worked fine.  I don't think its a dead battery (although the battery IS having problems holding a charge).   Still no noise at all from the starter.

I was pretty frustrated and tried pressing the starter button quickly to see if eventually it would do anything.  After maybe 10-15 presses, the scooter started.   I let it sit overnight, and tried it again this morning.  It started easily on the first press.  Weird, right?  Any ideas?  Loose connection maybe?

4
General Discussion / 15W40 or something else? Synethetic or mineral?
« on: August 07, 2008, 03:41:18 PM »
I have a bet & win 250, kymco.  The manual calls for SAE 15W40 for engine oil. 
I went to my scooter shop, and they carry 10W40, 10W50, and 20W40 engine oil.  They are all for scooter or motorcycles

I went to the local auto parts dealer and they carry 15W40 and synthetic 15W40.  All the 15W40s they carry say they are great for diesel engines

I purchased the Royal Purple, full synthetic 15W40 motor oil from Napa Autoparts.  Here is the website: http://www.royalpurple.com/motor-oil.html

Is that going to be OK to use? Or would I be better off using a 10W40 or 20W50 formulated specifically for 4 stroke engines? 
The Royal Purple says its for 4 cycle engines (is this the same?)

I'd rather use this as its much easier to obtain, and the one at the cycle shops are brands I've never heard of.  But I don't want to use something thaats going to ruin my engine

5
General Discussion / Re: Used 2002 Kymco Bet and Win 250 - What do I need to do?
« on: August 06, 2008, 01:07:39 PM »
WOW, Kawzak, I can't even begin to tell you how incredibly helpful you've been.  The ONLY thing thats been difficult with having a Kymco scooter is that its sometimes difficult to get all the necessary service information.  You've solved that problem!  Thank you!

As long as you are around, I feel like I should keep asking questions :)

Thanks for the advice on the brake bleeding system.  That really sounds useful.  The master cylinder for the brake fluid suggests Dot 3 or Dot 4 brake fluid, so I bought a bottle of Dot3/4 fluid.  I figured this would be ok

So as Im pretty new to this, there are a lot of things that I need that I don't have.  So far:
1. Brake Bleeding kit
2. Torque Wrench with proper fittings (?)

Anything else you'd recommend?

6
General Discussion / Re: Problems with the electric starter? or battery?
« on: August 05, 2008, 04:50:54 PM »
Ah, I understand.  What about the two smallish lights that are orange below the main headlight.  They aren't the turn signals (those are on the handlebars), but I can't figure out a way to get them to come on.  Any ideas?

Geezerbob, thanks for the quick answer.  It makes me feel a lot better to nkow that my bike isn't missing something vital!  I was hoping it wasn't draining the battery too

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General Discussion / Re: Used 2002 Kymco Bet and Win 250 - What do I need to do?
« on: August 05, 2008, 03:54:22 PM »
I thought of one more question (Im sorry!!)

When the bike engine is on, and its up on its main stand, should the rear wheel spin?  When my bike is idling, the rear wheel does not spin

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General Discussion / Re: Used 2002 Kymco Bet and Win 250 - What do I need to do?
« on: August 05, 2008, 03:21:36 PM »
Kawzak - thank you so much for all the help.  Its nice to know there are some friendly support groups out here!

I have a few more questions, if you don't mind me asking!

1.  I noticed you said to get some coolant for aluminum engines -- I have some 50/50 coolant that I bought a while ago, but am wondering if this will work in the motorcycle as well?  How do I know if its OK for aluminum engines?  Its this stuff: http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peak_longlife_5050.html

Also, I noticed that the Kymco Bet and Win 250 has one large headlight in the middle, flanked by two smaller lights on the sides.   You can see it in this photo:


When I turn on my bike, the front headlight and taillight are always on.   I don't have a way of turning them off. In the manual, there is a diagram with a switch for turning the lights on or off, but mine doesn't have that.  I can switch from normal to brights, but thats it.  Also, the "flanking" lights won't turn on.  I don't know how to get them to come on.  Is this normal?  I don't think they are turn signal lights, because as you can see, those are higher up

I read in my owner's manual that the scooter requires SAE 90 gear oil, but the closest I could find was 75 W 90.  I read on another website that this was oK, but was wondering your opinion

And lastly, I checked my brake fluid, and it looks OK, but I was under the impression that it absorbs water over time, and should be changed.  I can't find any information on flushing the brake fluid lines, so I was wondering if you happened to know hwo to do this? 

Should I purchase the service manual for the specific bike I have, or is it OK to use the People S 250 one since its so similar.  Thanks!!

9
General Discussion / Re: Problems with the electric starter? or battery?
« on: August 05, 2008, 03:13:22 PM »
Thanks so much for all the helpful replies!
I agree that it may only be taking a surface charge--as for the age of the battery, Im not really sure.  It came with the scooter, which I purchased used.  It looks fairly new (no corrosion or anything) but again, the scooter was very rarely used.

As for other power sources draining the battery, Im really not sure.  It may be that Im not using the scooter correctly.

After riding, and I supposed to leave the engine kill switch in the on position (where the scooter engine will NOT run) or in the off position (where the scooter engine WILL run)?  In the manual, its very confusing, but it does say leaving it in the incorrect position can overcharge your battery

Also, is it possible to turn the headlights off?  My scooter manual shows an image of where the lights on/off switch would be, but my scooter doesn't actually have this!  Is this something strange with my particular scooter, or is it normal?  When I turn off the scooter, the lights go out, but as soon as I put the key in, they are on (as running lights I guess?)

Thanks!

10
General Discussion / Problems with the electric starter? or battery?
« on: August 04, 2008, 05:23:18 PM »
I currently have a 2002 Kymco Bet and Win 250 scooter, and have been having some very slight trouble with the electric starter.

The way the starter works is:
Place key into ignition and turn to the right.  This turns on the digital panel
Turn the engine stop switch to off.  This turns off the stop, allowing the engine to run
Depress the rear brake.  This connects the electrical system to the starter.
Press the electric starter until it starts

If I've been running the scooter, the battery panel lights up with a full charge before starting, and it starts very quickly (less than 2 seconds)

If I remove the scooter battery and attach it to my maintainer before putting it into the scooter to start, the battery panel lights up with 3/6 lights and it starts very quickly (less than 2 seconds)

If I leave the battery in the scooter and let it sit for more than 2 days, the battery panel initially lights up with only 2/6 lights at first, and then these quickly drop to 0/6 if I depress the left brake.  I cant even get the starter to attempt to start it when its like this.  The panel dims to almost nothing, as if there is no battery power.

If I let it sit for a while (usually around 1 minute), the battery seems to get slightly stronger, and eventually it starts.  It usually takes a few seconds longer when starting (maybe around 4-6 seconds)

Im wondering why it seems like the battery drains when I first turn it on, and why it seems to increase its charge before starting.  Is this normal?

11
General Discussion / Used 2002 Kymco Bet and Win 250 - What do I need to do?
« on: August 04, 2008, 05:12:58 PM »
Hi all,

Im new to the forum, so go easy on me please!

I just recently purchased a used 2002 Kymco Bet and Win 250 from an individual, and now am wondering what service I need to perform before I can really start riding it. 
The only service I know for sure that was completed was the first 500km engine oil/gear oil change.
It now has just under 4,000 kilometers on it

I am planning on changing the engine oil, the gear oil, the air filter, coolant, and brake fluid.  My questions:

1) Where can I find a detailed service/repair manual for this bike?  The owner's manual is extremely insufficient

2) How difficult is it to perform these basic maintenance procedures?  I have done a lot of home repair, but no auto repair.  I think working on a bike will be much easier than a car, but I don't want to mess anything up.  Are there any books you'd recommend purchasing prior to working on the scooter?

3) Other than the parts I listed, are there any other things I should be checking for?  Sparkplugs, etc?

4) The last one is a bit stupid, but I still can't really figure it out.  The scooter is "Liquid" cooled, and the book seems to indicate distilled water.  Can you use other coolants (antifreeze for example) or is distilled water recommened? 

Thanks!!

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