KymcoForum.com
Offroad => Side By Side => Topic started by: jdub0813 on June 22, 2017, 05:05:25 PM
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I have read mix reviews on whether to run premium or not so my first fill up was mid grade. Wondering what everyone else uses?
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Kymco engines are designed to run on 87 octane gasoline in this country. 85 octane above 3000 feet elevation. Higher octane than manufacturer recommends is a waste of money and returns lower performance.
Karl
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But I also read it doesn't affect it, so might be a waste of money, which isn't too much more say you spend 25 cents more a gallon so $2 every fillup? But you get longer shelf life, meaning if you're not riding every day the, regular gas loses it's integrity over time.
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Use whatever grade you want. For what ever reason. I do not really care. Why ask the question if you are going to argue with the answers? This octane discussion was finalized in the 1920's by engineers and technicians developing what turned out to be some of the most highly refined aircraft engines in the world. Things have not changed since. What has changed is electronics which allow some enormous comression ratios on some surprisingly low octane fuel. Pilot training back when we had available 3 or 4 grades of avgas would tell us we COULD use gas of the next grade UP if our normal grade was not available. But NEVER use any grade lower. We were cautioned to expect LESS PERFORMANCE using a grade higher because of the slower burning rate.
Karl
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Wasn't an argument, I asked for people's opinion and I thank you for yours. I just mentioned that higher octane has higher shelf life so maybe a reason to use that? I don't know, it's up for debate, which is the reason of my post.
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If the owners manual calls for 87 octane, that is what I would use. Karl is right, higher octane gas has a slower burn rate that decreases pre-detonation. (pinging). This slower burn rate decreases the engines performance. Higher octane has no other benefit and is unnecessary unless it is called for. As far as storing goes, I believe that is a separate issue best resolved by using non-ethanol fuel and perhaps a little SeaFoam. In short, go with 87 octane, ideally non-ethanol.
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Absolutely, Mr. Paul! Seafoam, Sta-bil and such products lot cheaper than higher octane. Separate topic, definitely.
Karl
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Okay, and I do use Seafoam periodically in all my vehicles. Guess I will just stick to regular and keep using Seafoam periodically.
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You will NEVER have any problems with any Kymco because of 87 octane fuel. Now, you may have a raft of problems caused by marginal battery/starting systems, stuck fuel vent valves or weird electrical gremlins!
Karl
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when I drive 450i to the gas station it gets regular 87, if I add some from my spare gas container at home, it gets premium, my spare container (holds 7+ gallons) is fuel for a myriad of small power equipment, motorcycles, cars & trucks, some of which use premium
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Okay, and I do use Seafoam periodically in all my vehicles. Guess I will just stick to regular and keep using Seafoam periodically.
Good plan! :)
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"...higher octane has higher shelf life...." Says who? A higher octane rating is strictly a measure of the fuel's pre-detonation ability, which high compression engines require or they will knock and possibly self-destruct under acceleration. The fact that 91octane is called "premium" and costs more doesn't make it better, more powerful, cleaner, etc. I wonder if the higher price for 91 is nothing more then Big Oil gouging us, like they did for a while when diesel was more expensive then gasoline. I know people, even mechanics, who believe 91 is better gas then 87. "Hell, it's got a bigger number and costs more so it must be better, right?" Duh.
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Many sites and mechanics... but like you said, who really knows as mechanics seem to be 50/50 about premium vs regular. So I guess really it boils down to what I choose to do and I am just going to run regular with occasional seafoam from time to time. I have always ran premium in my motorcycles and never once had a problem, so let's just test the Kymco with regular and see if I wasted money the entire time with my bikes.
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Many sites and mechanics... but like you said, who really knows as mechanics seem to be 50/50 about premium vs regular. So I guess really it boils down to what I choose to do and I am just going to run regular with occasional seafoam from time to time. I have always ran premium in my motorcycles and never once had a problem, so let's just test the Kymco with regular and see if I wasted money the entire time with my bikes.
Not a waste if your mfgr recommended a higher octane fuel. My older atv's all called for premium 91 octane fuel but the 450i just says regular fuel. I have used both 87 and 89 octane in it and see no difference.
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"Not a waste if your mfgr recommended a higher octane fuel. My older atv's all called for premium 91 octane fuel but the 450i just says regular fuel. I have used both 87 and 89 octane in it and see no difference."
The "difference" is the money you wasted buying higher octane for no valid reason.
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The "difference" is the money you wasted buying higher octane for no valid reason.
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I have other toys that do require a higher octane fuel so I keep it on hand. Had to try a couple tank fulls to see if it really made a difference.
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The lowest octane we have here is 95. Premium is 98, some gas stations have 100.
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Bet that is straight octane, Jeeves, instead of the R+M/2 nonsense we have in the US!
Karl
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If a manufacturer recommends regular, then regular is ALL YOU NEED. If they recommend mid grade or Premium, then THAT's what you need.
Remember this: a manufacturer has ZERO interest in ruining your engine and having a warranty claim. So if it needed premium, you can be certain that they'd recommend it.
If 87 octane is recommended, unless you ENJOY spending extra money, buy 87 Octane
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Bet that is straight octane, Jeeves, instead of the R+M/2 nonsense we have in the US!
Karl
What does R+M/2 mean?
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Valid question, Jeeves! R means research and M means motor. Research uses some kind of lab technique to determine the Octane rating of fuel while Motor runs a single cylinder engine with variable compression ratio to determine Octane rating. Both these methods are used to maintain production octane rating quality. Since the octane ratings are different, one being higher than the other, they are averaged. This way we, the consumers, get one number for regular and cannot be cheated by unscrupulous retailers by somehow selling us a fuel with a higher octane rating number that really does not perform as well. This scam was made possible by ignorant people thinking a higher octane number automatically meant higher performance. Same is true about higher octane number not breaking down as quickly. Pure fantasy started by ignorant people. Nothing wrong with ignorant except staying that way.
Karl
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Forbes, you are SO right!
Karl
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All my small engines get non ethanol and the place I get it either has 87, 89 or 92 but only one octane at a time, so mine will get all three. :)
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I find that if a vehicle is driven regularly, the particular brand and whether or not it contains ethanol (10% or less) or not is not that important. But if it's sets up for any length of time, ethanol content becomes very important. In that case, I strongly advise using a fuel stabilizer.
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I've found that in some cases off brand fuels sometimes seem to decrease my fuel economy in certain vehicles. But that seems to apply across all their grades of fuel.
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Stick my toe in here:
If a guy uses a top tier fuel station (ie. not a Bettie's Burgers and Gaz) to fuel his fuel injected bike. .....he should have zip to worry about. Right? No autos have carbs any longer?
All the additives and worry about the age and octane of gas is related to carbed engines. Yes/No?
Stig
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Stick my toe in here:
If a guy uses a top tier fuel station (ie. not a Bettie's Burgers and Gaz) to fuel his fuel injected bike. .....he should have zip to worry about. Right? No autos have carbs any longer?
All the additives and worry about the age and octane of gas is related to carbed engines. Yes/No?
Stig
Octane is unrelated to whether an engine is carbureted or not. If an engine requires a certain octane, that's what it requires carburetor or no.
As far as additives go, fuel injected engines are even more sensitive to deposit build up because of the location of the injectors (closer to (or even in) the combustion chamber and their precise calibration. But as you stated, most name brand fuels are fine. But Even the cheapest fuels are ok if they are not used exclusively. Go to a top their station every so often.
However. NO VEHICLE likes old fuel. The octane AND the overall quality tends to degrade as fuel ages. So keep it fresh. Drive it!
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Stick my toe in here:
If a guy uses a top tier fuel station (ie. not a Bettie's Burgers and Gaz) to fuel his fuel injected bike. .....he should have zip to worry about. Right? No autos have carbs any longer?
All the additives and worry about the age and octane of gas is related to carbed engines. Yes/No?
Stig
Side note. The government (which many people seem to despise) regulates the claims on motor fuels. They make CERTAIN that 87 octane is 87 octane and 93 is really 93. However, the refiners are allowed a certain VERY SMALL amount of wiggle room. So bargain fuels may have for example, 86.9 octane and 10% ethanol while a top tier fuel may have 87.1 octane and 9.8% ethanol. (My numbers are simply off the top of my head examples) . But no fuels can have more than 10% ethanol although they are allowed to have less. Again, our often despise government regulations keep them honest (A GOOD THING, in my opinion)
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The simplest solution is just add an ounce or two of ethanol fuel stabilizer such as stabil to your fuel then forget it. Unless you are going to leave your equipment sit for more thn 90 days without running then drain the tank. If ethanol fuel is a worry to you add the stabilizer and be done. I have been using ethanol fuels in all my toys for a good many years without any issue, including my old 1983 boat engine. It sits all winter and starts right up in the spring, I did convert all the hoses to ethanol rated hoses, and do add some stabilizer on a regular basis. Only those that neglect their equipment are the ones having problems. Been a small engine mechanic for a long time and neglect and failure to follow a few simple rules are the main cause of fuel/engine problems.