Author Topic: [CLUTCH JUDDER] Opinions ~ Variator issue ?  (Read 3249 times)

cakebrake

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
[CLUTCH JUDDER] Opinions ~ Variator issue ?
« on: October 08, 2018, 10:01:05 PM »
I have a 2012 200i that i bought new in 2013.
A few months ago I started noticing a little hesitation and vibration
when going from a standstill.  Recently it became more drastic, where
it would kinda jump a little at low speeds.....so I stopped driving it.
I bought new rollers and belt and put them on.  Its decent now, but still
doesn't seem 100%.   I remember not being too impressed with the rest of
the variator and accompanying parts' condition,  but wasn't too worried about it.
Can anyone else help me narrow this down?
btw, engine runs fine, and its got like 5 or 6k miles
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 05:31:16 PM by Stig »

Stig / Major Tom

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14199
  • Rural Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: variator issue ?
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2018, 01:43:42 AM »
Sounds very much like glazed clutch pads....with dirty clutch bell.

New belt and rollers won't fix the juddering that comes when the clutch pads are glazed, sticking, juddering and acting up.
Clean the bell, lightly sand the pads to remove the glaze - reassemble and learn to be "brisk" with the throttle when taking off. Gentle throttle will slowly cause the pads to glaze from slipping - rather than quickly 'locking up' when pulling away.
Keep the pads clean by giving it the beans when pulling away from a stop.


Frankly - this cure for clutch judder seems more art than science sometimes....but if you get the pads clean and change your driving habits it should stay away for a long time.

(there is the "hold the brake and rev it !" - method of cleaning the pads - but I do not like to abuse my scooter in this manner)

Stig
Boston Strong
Rural Ohio

And, I'm feeling a little peculiar.

Amaro321

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: variator issue ?
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2018, 03:47:09 AM »
Ouuuuuu [emoji15] hold brake and gas it?!.... please explain *grabs popcorn * I’m a rebel. A little abuse can go a long way [emoji6] in moderation lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CROSSBOLT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7721
  • West Tennessee, USA
    • View Profile
Re: variator issue ?
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2018, 02:00:48 PM »
Ouuuuuu [emoji15] hold brake and gas it?!.... please explain *grabs popcorn * I’m a rebel. A little abuse can go a long way [emoji6] in moderation lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Means it heats the clutch shoes and drum, scrubs glazing of of both and seems to solve the juddering problem without disassembly.
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

cakebrake

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 14
    • View Profile
Re: variator issue ?
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2018, 02:47:06 PM »
not a bad idea, but if i were to do that, i should've did it b4 I changed the belt,
now i'll probably take your advice and check the clutch specs....or just use it as is

thanks

jeeves

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 341
  • Dubrovnik, Croatia
    • View Profile
Re: variator issue ?
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2018, 04:07:28 AM »
Tried the "hold rear brake and gas it" a few times.
It's a temporary fix, doesn't last long.
The only solution is to take the clutch bell off, sand the clutch pads good to remove the glazing, and clean the inside of the clutch bell.
Agility City 125

Stig / Major Tom

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14199
  • Rural Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: variator issue ?
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2018, 11:22:36 AM »
Tried the "hold rear brake and gas it" a few times.
It's a temporary fix, doesn't last long.
The only solution is to take the clutch bell off, sand the clutch pads good to remove the glazing, and clean the inside of the clutch bell.

Agreed.

Stig
Boston Strong
Rural Ohio

And, I'm feeling a little peculiar.

vespbretta

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 356
  • "Be the change that you wish to see in the world."
    • View Profile
Re: variator issue ?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2018, 10:52:08 AM »
Hey folks,
here is an advise from a respected Kymco dealer and senior mechanic in Germany who regularily is in contact with Kymco:

He recommends -seriously! - after sanding and cleaning the clutch pads and bell inside, to spray the pads with WD40 Oil. Let it soak in a few minutes and then wipe off the excess oil with a peace of paper towel or similar, so that the pads themselves arent "slippery oily wet" anymore. Do NOT degrease or clean it afterwards! Also give the inside of bell a short thin wipe with these used oily papertowel.
Then reasemble the whole clutch bell belt parts in the right and correct manner.

With this method your clutch judder problems should be solved longterm and you should have a buttery smooth operating clutch.

I know that this method may sound wierd a bit for many of us, yes it does, but this mechanic and several people in the german Kymco forum have used this method and have confirmed, that this method does the trick.

I myself haven´t tested it yet and lived with the judder for almost 20.000km now. My judder issue varies depending on temperature. To cold isnt good and too hot isnt good.

I have planned to replace my whole drivetrain wear parts next year at roundabout 22.000km. Then I will either use a better  aftermarket clutch or I will also use the trick with WD40 decribed above.

So, who is willing try it and report in the US?
Stig? Long boring winter days and nights are ahead of us all and your Like for sure estimates some cosy treatment from you.  :) ;)
Cheers,
Robo

Kymco Like LX 200i white/blue 2014; FACO Rear Crash Bars; Kymco Front Crash Bar; Puig Windshield Traffic;  Shido Battery LTX9-BS LION; 13gr. Dr. Pulley sliders and sliding pieces; Throttle control; Full synth. 10W-50 Motor- & Synth Gearoil; modified Topcase; Italian Badges and Stickers

Stig / Major Tom

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14199
  • Rural Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: variator issue ?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2018, 11:27:51 AM »
Well Robo - if anyone but you had suggested this, I'd be suspect.
Hmm.
Fortunately I've not had an issue with a juddering clutch on 4 different scooters once I learned to be brisk on my pull aways from a stop. The Burgman 400 would misbehave the quickest if not treated right.
I suspect that because I ride so little in congested city traffic my scoots are less prone to glazed friction surfaces.
I imagine that "brisk",  and 'stop & go', do not mix well.
I have a new fully assembled Kymco clutch and bell for my LIKE200I - purchased at a good price from our old member who worked in a Kymco dealer in Oregon some years ago. Still in a box. But, not sure I'll ever get to use it - the original is wearing so slowly. (same with the set of brake pads !)

WD40 on a friction surface of my scooter? ?? Well.....please let us know what you discover!
 ;)
Stig
Boston Strong
Rural Ohio

And, I'm feeling a little peculiar.

CROSSBOLT

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7721
  • West Tennessee, USA
    • View Profile
Re: variator issue ?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2018, 02:00:12 PM »
Yeah, YOU try it! Definitely I gonna wait until PROVEN by someone ELSE has tried this! I know how gummy WD-40 gets after it sits in open air. Yager 200i had some lube he put in his clutch a few years back but I just tossed that off, too!
Karl

Three motorcycles 1960-1977 (restored a 1955 BSA)
Agility 50
Yager 200i
Downtown 300i
Navy tech, Ships Engineer, pilot and aircraft mechanic

Viper254

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
  • Moped Pirate
    • View Profile
Re: variator issue ?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2018, 08:46:07 PM »
The clutch on my Like200 juddered like hell, I just ignored it :|
Rides;

Suzuki GW250 Inazuma (2016)
Honda C70C (red, 1983)

Amaro321

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: variator issue ?
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2018, 03:51:09 AM »
I just sanded both pads and Bell today. Runs smooth as ever. Did have some WD 40 grease get everywhere including some surface areas. But I said screw it, and put it back together. I figured the heat and friction would eventually dissipate and oil.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stig / Major Tom

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14199
  • Rural Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: variator issue ?
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2018, 04:56:40 PM »
I just sanded both pads and Bell today. Runs smooth as ever. Did have some WD 40 grease get everywhere including some surface areas. But I said screw it, and put it back together. I figured the heat and friction would eventually dissipate and oil.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I just sanded both pads and Bell today. Runs smooth as ever. Did have some WD 40 grease get everywhere including some surface areas. But I said screw it, and put it back together. I figured the heat and friction would eventually dissipate and oil.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OK, then.
Stig
Boston Strong
Rural Ohio

And, I'm feeling a little peculiar.

KymcoRockr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 122
    • View Profile
Re: [CLUTCH JUDDER] Variator issue ?
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2019, 02:40:00 PM »
Most clutch judder is because the clutch bell overheats, and not because pads get glazed, etc. These bikes were designed for 150-170 lb riders in busy stop and go traffic. Not two up, 400 pounds holding it open for miles. So if you have clutch judder it is because your riding style is harder on the clutch bell than it was designed for. The solution is a better clutch bell.

If your clutch bell is blue, replace it. It no longer evenly dissipates heat. Nothing will get it back to how it was before, and you will spend more time taking it apart when it starts juddering again, than it's worth. Unless your time is worth absolutely nothing, then keep taking it apart and scraping it out every couple of weeks when it starts juddering again. And a bell that judders breaks down the pads faster, so plan on replacing your clutch sooner too.   

A very light coating of grease inside the clutch bell can get rid of a lot of noise and judder for a while. It burns off the first time you apply the clutch, but conditions the metal for a while.
Changing to a slightly heavier contra spring also helps. Also, replace the clutch springs with a good set of aftermarket springs. Not the racing ones, but ones that are close to the original. The springs work hard, and after thousands of miles, metal fatigue starts to affect them. 

If you replace the bell, one of the new ones with cooling fins will help a lot.  Or any top quality name brand aftermarket bell. Most big scooter clutches will outlast the bell, but the bell doesn't look broken, so it doesn't get changed. 
 
If you replace the part that wasn't able to hold up to the way you use the bike with the cheapest one you can find, remember that it was made with the cheapest steel they could find and will start acting up sooner than the OEM one did.

The clutch bell can easily get to 600 degrees or more under hard use. That's a lot of heat.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 02:45:01 PM by KymcoRockr »
Been riding for a very long time.
AK550
Yager 200

Stig / Major Tom

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14199
  • Rural Ohio
    • View Profile
Re: [CLUTCH JUDDER] Opinions ~ Variator issue ?
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2019, 05:41:46 PM »
I have removed this from the sticky category - as there are so many differing opinions regarding the reasons for clutch judder - and as many differing opinions on how to prevent it, and how to fix it, to make for a definitive repair 'sticky'.

Clutch judder posts for the LIKE200i would now best be described as a discussion of this common scootering subject.
Readers are encouraged to read through the posts and to decide for themselves how this applies to their experience.

Stig
Boston Strong
Rural Ohio

And, I'm feeling a little peculiar.

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function split()