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Topics - Yager200i

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1
Technical | How To / New idea... give me your thoughts...
« on: August 03, 2015, 09:48:28 PM »
Ok, so a little background. I'm looking at ways of evaporating (at least some of) the fuel prior to it hitting the engine, to increase fuel efficiency. In addition, given that water is an integral part of the combustion process (http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=2431.msg33797#msg33797), I'm looking at ways of adding moisture to the intake air to facilitate efficient combustion. And a third goal is to get rid of the PCV valve and put a slight vacuum on the crankcase to reduce windage losses, increase the effective pressure across the piston during the power stroke, and sweep blowby gasses out of the crankcase before they can contaminate the oil.

So as an experiment, I'll be doing something like what you see in the attached image:


The crankcase gasses are routed to an oil catch can, then to the top of the gas tank through a check valve.

The gas tank "burp line" at the top of the filler neck is tapped into (the original function, to burp air from the top of the tank during filling, is left intact) and routed to the water tank through a check valve.

The water tank "burp line" at the top of the filler neck is tapped into and routed through an En-Valve (which maintains a consistent 6 inches Hg of vacuum), which is then routed to the intake manifold.

The crankcase blow-by gasses and any oil vapor are dissolved into the gasoline in the fuel tank. Any gas that evaporates is routed through the water tank. Thus the gasses being pulled through the En-Valve and into the intake are fuel and water laden.

There's little risk of explosion, the crankcase gasses are low-oxygen exhaust gasses that slipped by the rings. There won't be a lot of flow... just the amount of blow-by past the rings, which is a product of engine speed... the higher the engine speed, the more blow-by gasses, thus the more flow through this system.

I'm considering putting a small venturi in the intake, so even at WOT, there will be a bit of suction on this system. Thus, at low throttle, the intake vacuum will maintain vacuum on this system. At high throttle, the venturi vacuum will maintain vacuum on this system.

The ECU will sense the extra fuel being added via this system and cut back the fuel injector PWM duty cycle to compensate. Eventually, I'll have a new programmable ECU that'll let the engine run lean, but for now, it's just an experiment with fuel evaporation and water vapor intake.

The entire premise behind this is that a good portion of the fuel injected into our engines is used not for propulsion, but to cool the combustion process prior to it hitting the exhaust valve. As combustion progresses, the fire goes out because the fuel:air ratio becomes too rich... not because all the fuel is burnt up, but because all the oxygen is consumed. The fuel droplets injected via the fuel injector have only a few milliseconds to absorb enough heat to vaporize, and some of them don't... by design. They continue to evaporate after combustion has ceased, thereby cooling things down so the exhaust valve doesn't get burnt. That's why we have such things as the PAIR system on our scooters... it injects extra air into the exhaust to burn off that fuel that didn't burn in-cylinder because the droplets didn't vaporize in time.

That's why, as you lean out the engine, it actually runs hotter... there's less fuel after combustion ends to vaporize and absorb the heat of combustion. I propose to replace the cooling effect of that extra fuel with water, which is needed by the combustion process anyway, and is an end result of the combustion process in any case. The water vapor in the diagram above won't do much to help cool the cylinder, it's there strictly to facilitate more efficient combustion. Eventually, after I get the new programmable ECU installed, there will be an ECU-controlled water injector on the bike.

And before you go all wild-eyed and start issuing warnings about water in the engine, you should know that I've dumped 90 ml of water straight into the gas tank the last couple tankfuls... an amount that is small enough that at prevailing temperatures, the ethanol in the fuel can absorb it. My fuel efficiency is at an all-time high, and the engine is running stronger than ever.

So... what do you think?

2
Technical | How To / Anyone ever tune their engines using this?
« on: June 09, 2015, 08:46:22 AM »
ColorTune:
http://www.gunson.co.uk/item.aspx?cat=1356&item=1854

Apparently, it's a clear spark plug that lets you see the flame color. Orange means too rich, blue means just right. I'm not sure what color means too lean, though.

3
Technical | How To / Tachometer...
« on: June 09, 2015, 04:33:50 AM »
Hi, all.

Does anyone know what voltage the tachometer on a Kymco Yager GT 200i works at? I know it taps off the "downstream" side of the ignition primary coil, the wire that goes to the ECU that dumps voltage through the coil to ground to induce the high secondary coil voltage... so is it just measuring how many times per minute the 12 volts drops to zero, since the "upstream" side of the ignition primary coil is +12 V?

Or is the tachometer relying upon the secondary coil inducing a higher voltage in the primary coil as it discharges across the spark plug, and reading that (the back-EMF off the primary coil can reach as high as 300 volts).

The reason I ask is because I'll be replacing the OEM ignition coil with a Pertronix FlameThrower HV 60,000 volt 1.5 Ohm coil. It'll have a higher back-EMF voltage than the OEM coil, so to protect the ECU and tachometer I'm going to put an "ignitor" downstream of the ECU that'll act as the switch for the primary coil, and as isolation protection for the ECU and tach. But I still want the tachometer to operate, so the ignitor will have a tach connection on the protected side.

But in order to do that, I need to know what voltage the tach normally uses as its signal. If no one already has the info, I'll break out the digital voltmeter and tap into the yellow/black line on pin 12 of the ECU.

4
Hi, all.

In light of the fact that my OEM ignition coil is weak, and since I'll be doing experiments that'll require a pretty hot spark (ie: alternate fuels and lean lambda), I've bought a Pertronix FlameThrower HV 60,000 volt 1.5 Ohm coil and a MagneCor R-100 CN 10 mm ignition wire rated to 80,000 volts.

The OEM coil looks like the first attached image. The red lead comes from the battery's (+) terminal via a fuse and the keyswitch, and the yellow/black lead goes to the ECU's pin 12, and branches off to the tachometer as well.

The ignition on this bike isn't really CDI, it's more akin to the old-style Kettering ignition with solid-state "points" (which is actually an SCR triggered from a Hall Effect sensor that gets its signal from the flywheel magnet). The "points" merely short to ground, causing current to flow in the primary coil, which induces a high voltage in the secondary coil.

You'll note there's a diode on the "upstream" side of the secondary coil, to prevent back-EMF from feeding back into the primary coil and blowing out the tach or the ECU.

The new coil doesn't have that diode, so I'll have to come up with some other means of preventing bEMF from smoking the tach or ECU. I considered putting a series of high voltage diodes on the "downstream" side of the secondary coil (where the spark plug wire connects), but finding diodes that can withstand that kind of voltage isn't easy.

So, I've come up with the idea of putting essentially the same setup as is in the ECU (an SCR) downstream of the ECU and upstream of the coil, except one that can handle much higher voltages than the ECU can. I'll call it the "isolation unit".

The ECU's SCR will trigger the isolation unit's SCR, which will then shunt the primary coil to ground, causing current flow, which induces the secondary high voltage.

The tachometer will connect to the upstream (protected) side of the isolation unit. When the ECU's SCR dumps to ground to trigger the isolation unit's SCR, the voltage drop that triggers the isolation unit's SCR will be read by the tachometer.

In this way, we can use hotter coils (and we're not limited to merely coils for scooters... the FlameThrower HV is for car engines up to 10 cylinders), we can wire them up without worrying about blowing out the tach or the ECU, and the tachometer will still work.

After my electronics guy gets a circuit mocked up, and after I get the new coil installed, I'll offer the circuitry plans and instructions for sale for $1, to recoup my design costs.

5
Yager GT 200i / TCI vs. CDI
« on: June 01, 2015, 04:05:10 AM »
We're talking ignition systems.

http://www.sportdevices.com/rpm_readings/CDI_and_TCI.htm

CDI (Capacitor Discharge Ignition):
----------
CDI Ignition makes the spark by discharging a capacitor loaded with high voltage (200 - 450 volt) from the ignition coil (negative pulse) by using a SCR (Thyristor).

CDI coils have low impedance and inductance (XL< 1 ohm) and can reach high RPM. This type of ignition makes high power and short sparks.
----------


TCI (Transistorized Coil Ignition):
----------
TCI Ignition charges the coil with a current before the spark is triggered. Spark is triggered when the current is cut suddenly.

TCI coils have high impedance (>1 ohm) and can reach lower RPM. Spark duration may be longer.
----------

Looking at the wiring diagram, it appears we have a TCI (also known as a Kettering) style ignition (with solid state "points"), since 12V runs straight from the battery's (+) terminal to one of the connections on the primary coil, goes through the primary coil, then goes to pin 12 on the ECU. The ECU then cuts the 12V power to the primary coil on and off to build and collapse the primary coil magnetic field, inducing a voltage in the secondary that then goes to the spark plug.

BUT, the service manual says the primary coil resistance is only 0.57 to 0.66 ohms.

So it appears Kymco used a TCI style ignition in our case, but mismatched it with a CDI (low resistance) coil. It appears to work, though. Perhaps they beefed up the primary coil to take the extra current?

Looking at the coil, it becomes apparent that you have to be careful to put the (+) voltage to the right lug on the coil... reverse it, and once the ECU has triggered the first spark, that ionization path is open and can carry even a voltage as low as 12V (which is how a lot of those "spark enhancers" work... they just inject 12V (through high voltage diodes and an IC circuit to cut off the low-voltage, high amperage spark after a set time) after the high voltage has created the ionization path across the spark plug gap), and you'll quickly burn out your coil's primary windings.

It also becomes apparent that aftermarket CDI coils might not be up to the job in our scooters, since the amperage at 12 V is going to be much higher than the usual CDI voltages of 200 to 400 V. Unless you use an old-style automotive coil for a points-type ignition system, which will handle it just fine.

Yeah, I'm thinking of dropping a 60,000 volt FlameThrower HV 1.5 ohm coil into FrankenYager. Since it's only got to drive one spark plug at 9200 RPM max (which would be equivalent to driving 8 spark plugs at 2300 RPM, due to our waste spark), it should easily be able to handle the high RPMs.

Alternatively, I could use the 60,000 volt FlameThrower HV 0.45 ohm coil and a 0.25 ohm ballast resistor in series.

Then I could open the spark plug gap more, giving a larger spark and quicker flame front spread.

6
Technical | How To / Water in gas... intentionally.
« on: May 19, 2015, 04:33:22 PM »
Hi, all.

I've been doing research into fuel additives to improve fuel efficiency, and I ran across the genius of Sir Harry Ricardo. He gave us large parts of the technology that are used even today in modern high-compression engines. In 1921 he patented the Racing Discol 1 and Racing Discol 2 (RD1 and RD2) fuels. Apparently RD1 gave as much as 20% better fuel efficiency, and more power.

It was comprised of 80% ethanol, 10% acetone and 10% water. Apparently, to protect their IP and patent rights, they also added a bit of finely ground bone meal, which confounded chemical analysis, but made the exhaust stink to high heaven. Of course, that needn't be added.

Given that most fuel is 10% ethanol now, that 10% ethanol in regular gasoline can be converted into RD1.

This can be done by adding ~38 ml of acetone and ~38 ml of water to each gallon of regular E10 gas. Unless my math is off... please correct me if it is.

{ EDIT: My math was off... it's not 47.32 ml, it's ~38 ml.
One gallon = 3785.41 ml.
10% of that (the 10% ethanol in E10 gasoline) = 378.54 ml.
10% of that (the 10% water and 10% acetone) = 37.85 ml.
So there would be ~76 ml of 50:50 water/acetone added to each gallon of E10 gasoline. }

So for each fill-up of ~2.5 gallons for a typical scooter, something on the order of 95 ml of water and 95 ml of acetone would be added. A small amount of Lucas upper cylinder lubricant, to ensure fuel lubricity, would also probably be a good idea.

Apparently the complete miscibility of acetone in water and ethanol binds the water to the ethanol, and the ethanol to the gasoline, making a homogeneous mixture that doesn't separate out. The ethanol and acetone add to the octane rating of the pump fuel, while the water provides an expansion medium that far exceeds that of combusting fuel in air (water expands to steam at approximately a 1:1600 ratio, at the same pressure), adding to cylinder pressure.

Given that gasoline itself and the ethanol in the gas are solvents, the relatively mild solvent acetone shouldn't affect any o-rings, gaskets, etc. But it, along with the steam in-cylinder, should help to keep combustion deposits from forming in the cylinder.

What do you guys think? Has anyone tried this?

7
Technical | How To / How hard would it be to...
« on: April 25, 2015, 02:34:46 AM »
Hi, all.

I had an idea just now, I don't know, it might be crazy...

As background, I'll be reworking my engine. Ceramic coating on piston crown, valves, head and intake/exhaust ports, hybrid ceramic bearings, roller lifters to replace the flat tappet lifters (and a new cam with faster lift and seat, and slightly longer open duration), and hopefully (eventually) a Desmodromic valve actuation setup to get rid of the power waste of having to compress those valve springs 4600 times per minute at WOT, with the Desmo cam grind using the parameters of the new roller lifter cam grind.

So, how does one find the perfect cam grind to maximize fuel efficiency? For such a small engine, it'd be pretty hit-or-miss (pardon the engine pun).

Unless... if one were to remove the camshaft entirely, and mount a modified valve cover on the engine with large solenoids that would actuate the valves. The solenoids would be driven by control circuitry that would let one vary the intake and exhaust valve opening and closing to achieve maximum fuel efficiency as the engine ran in a test stand.

Likewise, the spark would be controlled such that one could advance / retard the spark timing.

The rear drive axle would be coupled to an alternator that would act as load (so the entire drive train including the CVT is included in the tweaking, for maximum realistic effect), feeding a large resistor-based load bank. An Arduino controller would automatically vary throttle position, valve timing, spark timing, fuel injector duty cycle and alternator load while monitoring power output and fuel consumption to achieve maximum power output with minimum fuel consumption.

This wouldn't be a permanent setup... just to tweak the valve timing and spark timing so the new ECU could be properly programmed and the new cam ground.

So, the Arduino would start the engine, tweak for maximum fuel efficiency at idle, then step up to the engine RPM to where the clutch engages, do the same, step up 500 RPM, etc., etc., all the while compiling the results into a database so the data can be transplanted into a permanent setup later.

What do you think? Doable?

8
For Sale / MicroBlue bearings, 10% off and free shipping offer
« on: April 06, 2015, 03:10:57 PM »
I'm posting this with permission of the owner of MicroBlue Bearings. I'm not affiliated in any way with MicroBlue except as a customer.

Since I've ordered new hybrid ceramic bearings for my bike and gotten the rear gears micro-polished and tungsten sulfide coated by MicroBlue, I got a special offer from them for 10% off my next purchase and free shipping. Since I don't have anything to buy from them right now, I asked the owner if it'd be alright to post the offer here, and he agreed.

So, quoting from the email offer:
======================
From 4/6/15 through 4/13/15 go to www.MicroBlueBearings.com and enter the promo code "Faster" in the Coupon Code box, on the store checkout page, and receive a 10% DISCOUNT on your order, as well as FREE SHIPPING in the United States.
======================

Hope this helps anyone on the fence about ordering hybrid ceramic bearings. They last longer, run cooler and help your vehicle to get more of the engine power to the ground where it can do some good, rather than being eaten up in friction.

9
Technical | How To / ArchOil AR9300... anyone used it?
« on: March 10, 2015, 12:15:33 AM »
Anyone used ArchOil's AR9300 Nanoceramic? It's supposedly got a Coefficient of Friction of only 0.003, which is lower than any other oil additive.

It's 4 ounces for $49.95. Each bottle treats 5 quarts of oil, and the treatment should be done once a year.

Its component ingredients, according to ArchOil, are:
SiO2 42%
MgO 38%
Other 14.65%
Al2O3 1.95%
Fe2O3 3.50%
CaO 0.30%
Na2O 0.30%
TiO2 0.11%
MnO 0.09%

Think any of those would cause problems in our scooters?

10
Technical | How To / Mini-lathe?
« on: February 22, 2015, 05:19:11 AM »
Anyone know of a good quality mini-lathe for not too much money? I found a Grizzly 4"x6" for $350, but that's a bit high for such a tiny lathe... I'd expect to pay that much for a 7"x10" or 7"x12".

I don't want one of those cheap Chinese things that use the 12 volt motor... I hear they burn out after a few uses.

I want to be able to custom-turn my own variator weights... once I get good at doing it, I could even make them for anyone here who wanted to experiment with their variator weights... for far cheaper than buying new weights... a 12 foot section of machinable brass to lathe the weights from is only ~$63, and you can make about 12 to 14 weights per foot of round brass rod. Lathe them to the correct OD, excavate the inside to get the weight near where it's supposed to be, then use a Dremel and a gram scale accurate to hundredths of a gram to tweak the weights so they're all within 0.01 grams of each other.

It'd make it easy to try out odd-weight sliders or rollers to fine-tune the variator to exactly how you want it to perform.

Just press out the brass center of your slider or roller, freeze the new weight to reduce its diameter a bit so it presses in more easily, press in the new weight, install the slider or roller in the variator, and go for a test ride.

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Technical | How To / Needle bearings...
« on: February 22, 2015, 04:10:58 AM »
Ok, so while I've got the FrankenYager apart, I decided to splurge on hybrid ceramic silicon nitride ball bearings. They'll be micro-polished and coated with tungsten sulfide to make them rotate even more easily than ceramic bearings already do. The new rear gears that Jan Vos cut for me will also be micro-polished and coated, thus no gear break-in and less friction. This is from a company named MicroBlue.

I'll be doing this for all the bearings on the bike eventually... when I drop the new head on, I'll tear the engine down, do a full inspection, and drop in the new bearings there. For now, the new bearings will go into the wheels , clutch and rear gears.

Anyway, the bike has 12 bearings total, two of which are drawn cup needle bearings. They're the typical cheapy needle bearings that come on most GY6-based scooters, with a nylon roller cage... and the one on the clutch is worn out. Since there are no hybrid ceramic needle bearings, I'm stuck using conventional ones, but I want to go with ones that at least have a metal roller cage so they last longer.

Here's the measurements of them:
14mm bore, 20mm diameter, 12mm width
20mm bore, 29mm diameter, 18mm width

Anyone know of better drawn cup needle bearings than the cheap Chinese ones? I've tried SKS, FAG, INA, Timken... seems only the Chinese factories churn these out... strange, given that everyone riding a GY6-engined scooter has these bearings, and a higher quality replacement would likely be a big seller.

12
General Discussion / Totally, completely off topic....
« on: November 10, 2014, 04:48:18 AM »
Ok, it's not *totally* off topic, as it has to do with an experiment I'll be doing that will go on FrankenYager if the initial experiments work. So it's scooter-related, at least tangentially.

Most of you probably won't even know what I'm asking about, but if I've learned one thing, it's that KymcoForum.com is home to a lot of smart people (some may even make the connection between what I'm asking for to what it'll be used for; and I'm hoping someone here works in a chemical manufacturing facility that has what I'm looking for), so here goes...

Does anyone know where I can get my hands on about 20 pounds of Beta-phase Polyvinylidene Fluoride Tetrafluoroethylene (PVDF-TFE) copolymer in 10-micron granule size?

13
Hi, all.

I've got a 2010 Kymco Yager GT 200i. That model bike's been discontinued. I was ordering a bunch of parts from KymcoPartsMonster.com today, and they informed me that part:
39301   39301-LEA6-900   HOLDER ASSY FUEL INJECTOR
is no longer manufactured for my scooter... so it's time to start hunting for a fuel injector from another bike that'll fit this one.

Anyone know of any, or have any experience with this "using parts from one bike on a different bike" thing?

14
Yager GT 200i / Fuel Injector from another scooter?
« on: October 27, 2014, 06:01:24 PM »
Ok, so a part is no longer being manufactured for our scooters:
39301   39301-LEA6-900   HOLDER ASSY FUEL INJECTOR
So we can no longer order replacement OEM fuel injectors for our scooters if ours become damaged or clogged beyond cleaning.

So... we've got to find a replacement fuel injector that is manufactured for a newer scooter that'll fit ours... anyone know of one?

15
General Discussion / Gearing calculator spreadsheet
« on: October 01, 2014, 06:33:00 PM »
I'm planning on getting new rear gears cut for my 2010 Kymco Yager GT 200i such that I can cruise at 65 MPH at 6500 RPM, the engine's torque peak. That'll give maximum fuel efficiency at highway speed. I'm also planning on getting them spiral-cut, to get rid of the gear whine of the OEM straight-cut gears.

There were three scenarios I was considering:
1) New rear gear set with OEM variator
2) Wide range variator with OEM rear gear set
3) Wide range variator *and* new rear gear set

I created a spreadsheet to do the calculations. It's in OpenOffice.org Calc format, instead of Microsoft Excel format. I like OpenOffice much better than MS, and it's free.

This will allow you to see just how fast your scoot is capable of going. For instance, with the OEM variator and the OEM rear gears, if I push the engine to its rev limiter, I should be getting about 79 MPH... but I've only ever gone that fast once. I recently found that a very tiny outer section of my variator isn't being utilized, the belt's not riding all the way up... so I've begun shaving the variator little by little to rectify that and get the full speed capability out of the bike.

The fact that I only ever hit that speed once despite regularly hitting the rev limiter if I'm not careful also tells me I need heavier Dr. Pulley sliders. I'm running 18 gram sliders now. I'll buy a small bench lathe and turn my own custom weights to insert into the sliders (I'll also have to find a small Dake press for pressing the cores in and out), so I can test out a variety of weights. I'm betting about 20.5 grams will be just about right.

See the attached "Gearing.ods" spreadsheet, in .zip zipfile format (because KymcoForum.com doesn't allow .ods files to be uploaded, but they do allow zipfiles).

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