STIG- new parts SOLVED~!

[2wheelfun]

Stig, ask your buddy where does 1 buy that scanner and how much is it? Also where is the plug at on the scoot? That scanner has to be a simple creature compared to some car scanners.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Stig, ask your buddy where does 1 buy that scanner and how much is it? Also where is the plug at on the scoot? That scanner has to be a simple creature compared to some car scanners.

Part # is (I'm pretty sure) 3620A-LEB2-E00.
You can bing search this and find prices ranging from $237 to $375.
I did see an  eBay seller from Australia selling one for about $100.
Plug-in for the tool is found in the battery box of the LIKE200i.


Stig

[CROSSBOLT]

I got my scanner/analyzer from the dealer in Memphis, TN for $239.00 US which included an adapter to read the 4-wheelers. It will read TPS values as seen as voltages at the ECU as well as other parameters with engine stopped or running.

Karl

[2wheelfun]

Cool thanks a lot. Our local dealer has about as much knowledge as Stig's from what I hear. With towing and hassles associated with that dealer I think that would be a wise investment over time, just fix it myself.

[Stig / Major Tom]

I got my scanner/analyzer from the dealer in Memphis, TN for $239.00 US which included an adapter to read the 4-wheelers. It will read TPS values as seen as voltages at the ECU as well as other parameters with engine stopped or running.

Karl

Hey Karl and 2wheel and bet&losing,
All you guys..
OK, thanks to Karl I have the Kymco FI diagnostic Tool....
So, to make sure I've got this right....because my cyclepedia manual never mentions starting the engine in its basic instructions for using this diagnostic tool.....so, some questions:

1)  On this screen , with the key on but engine off - I am to advance the throttle slowly and watch for a smooth progression  from .23V at off/throttle to something @ 3.27V (+/- .05V) at full/throttle. Yes?

2) Do I have the option to have the engine on or off while doing this throttle position test?
 
3) And,if I see something in the engine-off mode is it OK to do this with the engine on if I want to explore that 23MPH speed area where it usually stumbles?

4) It also seems as though I am to run some other tests while the engine is warm and running. Engine running - yes?

If I find an issue with the TPS (& I hope I do) I will try to video the episode and take it to the salesman/son of owner at my dealer's. If there is an issue but I cannot get some visual evidence I will take the scoot to the dealer & request that they  test the TPS - so we can get the new ECU/Throttle body ordered from Kymco. There is no cleaning or repair for a faulty TPS in this scooter.
 Awaiting further instructions....the big box of cats standing by if this testing fails.
Sign me Plenty-0-Duck-Tape
Stig
(for something relaxing - I'm going to go change the oil & filter on my Forza...again)

[2wheelfun]

Can't help you I have no exp with a kymco scanner. On a car engine does not need to be running to check, scoot not so sure. Do you have a user manual? I don't see it hurting anything to try it with KOEO.

[Stig / Major Tom]

OK, first experience with the Diagnostic Tool:
Static throttle roll (key on , engine off) found very smooth progression of voltage from 0.24V to 03.24V through the full twist of the throttle (0 > 90degrees throttle)
With the scoot on the center stand and engined warmed to norm. operating temps and running - I tried twisitng the throttle and watching the screen again - this time I found & heard a lot of stumbling and saw the voltage figures jump up and back irratically a few times at the lower speeds - right about where my 23MPH stumbles would be happening.

This continues to be an intermittent fault - in other words it does not repeat each and every time at a low speed cruise...but it comes every outing during a 30 min. ride at some point if I try that speed repeatedly.
It is a pretty severe cutting out / stumble, removing your confidence in heavy city traffic.

I will let things cool and try again tomorrow, and for a couple of days. If I can get it on video with my still camera or cell phone I will be talking to the dealer late next week when I have some time off. Well, I'll be over there, one way or another - to have them run their own TPS test with the engine running at low speeds.

Looking at all the other values on the tool show that everything else is good and well within specifications of a typical LIKE200i print-out.

And the new replacement fuel pump ?....It IS a plug and play.
Went in easily and works great - but did not solve the stumble on the 1st test ride.
I'll go over there and post pix on that thread.
Stig

[BettinANDlosing]

Good to hear about a cheap fuel pump option. And about the diagnostic tool, the engine does not need to be running for measurement of most parameters other than rpm, and I would say seeing that erratic voltage is your issue. Does the voltage and the degree change or just voltage?

[Stig / Major Tom]

Good to hear about a cheap fuel pump option. And about the diagnostic tool, the engine does not need to be running for measurement of most parameters other than rpm, and I would say seeing that erratic voltage is your issue. Does the voltage and the degree change or just voltage?

I think both...but I had a few irons in the fire - so will be repeating for a couple of days to nail it down, if possible.
Stig

[BettinANDlosing]

Did you mount the diag. Tool with Velcro or something so you can see it while riding? I've done that before.

[vespbretta]

Interesting. Can you pls confirm that you use correct interference free spark plugs, -cables and -caps?

You might also check and measure now the alternator and the regulator/rectifier. Those little electronic hard workers (regulators/rectifiers) might also go bad in time as they have a really hard job to do and have to deal with a lot of heat during their lifetime. I guess they also tend to belong to the circle of the usual suspects on motorcycles.

Good to see, that you are getting closer now.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Interesting. Can you pls confirm that you use correct interference free spark plugs, -cables and -caps?

You might also check and measure now the alternator and the regulator/rectifier. Those little electronic hard workers (regulators/rectifiers) might also go bad in time as they have a really hard job to do and have to deal with a lot of heat during their lifetime. I guess they also tend to belong to the circle of the usual suspects on motorcycles.

Good to see, that you are getting closer now.

Yes, correct ngk plug, oem leads, cap and coil.
If I do confirm to myself that TPS is failing...it will go back to the dealer. At that point I am finished as a LIKE mechanic. The City  Grips will be in their court, as it were...

I am interested in how they will check the faulty TPS with engine running...without a Kymco FI Diagnostic Tool.... must be careful with those micro lead probes on their meter.
Things happen too quickly to try riding and watching screen at the same time... for those fleeting hiccups on the screen... it happens very fast.
Stig

[2wheelfun]

Sounds like your finally on track Stig. When an engine heats up that can affect the TPS readings. I'm on a quest to get one of those scanners now. Thanks for all your efforts, all of us Like owners have learned a lot.

[CROSSBOLT]

Yah, go, Stig! You asked four(4) questions. The answer to all is, "Yes." The tool gets its power from the ECU and then reads what the ECU says. Like I said in the PM, ya can't hurt it unless you run over it. I think it is significant that the TPS is smooth as glass with engine off and wonky with the engine running. I would jump to the conclusion that engine vibration is disturbing some function in what the engineering school calls "sympathetic vibration", and it could be like vespretta said some of the other hard workers in the electric /electronic area. Intermittent 5 volts can really upset lotsa stuff. You could look at 12 volts on the scanner to see what it is doing in the stumble range. I think you can also read the 5 volts somewhere on that thing. The stator, regulator and the rectifiers are off the hook if both are steady. Pretty quick YOU are gonna be the expert with the tool!

The dealer will not have a clue without the tester. You will need to show him on the tool what is going on at stumble speed. You are wise to show him as he can get that expensive three-parts-in-one thingy that includes the TPS. You are already working the warranty idea as well you should. And tell him to get his own scanner! He is supposed to have one anyway!

Karl

[Stig / Major Tom]

Yah, go, Stig! You asked four(4) questions. The answer to all is, "Yes." The tool gets its power from the ECU and then reads what the ECU says. Like I said in the PM, ya can't hurt it unless you run over it. I think it is significant that the TPS is smooth as glass with engine off and wonky with the engine running. I would jump to the conclusion that engine vibration is disturbing some function in what the engineering school calls "sympathetic vibration", and it could be like vespretta said some of the other hard workers in the electric /electronic area. Intermittent 5 volts can really upset lotsa stuff. You could look at 12 volts on the scanner to see what it is doing in the stumble range. I think you can also read the 5 volts somewhere on that thing. The stator, regulator and the rectifiers are off the hook if both are steady. Pretty quick YOU are gonna be the expert with the tool!

The dealer will not have a clue without the tester. You will need to show him on the tool what is going on at stumble speed. You are wise to show him as he can get that expensive three-parts-in-one thingy that includes the TPS. You are already working the warranty idea as well you should. And tell him to get his own scanner! He is supposed to have one anyway!

Karl

Hey Karl,
OK, just did another test with the diagnostic tool hooked up.
Cold engine, key on , engine off: pretty smooth progression of throttle degrees and volts.
Warm engine, key on, engine off: pretty much the same.
Warm engine, running: major drops & jumps in both throttle degrees and voltage - esp. at @ 4000 rpm.
Engine clearly cutting in and out - rather hard. Sometimes - not always.

OK...question remains: is the TPS at fault if I'm seeing erratic scanner read-outs only with engine running?
Re. the comments about vibrations of electrical parts being to blame: I have read a couple of places that engine vibrations can make worse a bad area in the TPS.
So, since the TPS seems to be a partly physical sensor - I'm thinking vibrations at 4000rpm may not be causing the stumble - but maybe making things worse in an already faulty sensor.
In other words : the TPS is bad at @ 4000rpm, and the vibrations are not helping any.

I suggest this - because in all my road testing - I have never felt an engine stumble that could be solely related to any engine vibrations,  bumps, bangs or road conditions. In a couple hundred miles I would have picked this up - since I was looking so hard for a reason for the issue.

To test?: remove seat and seat bucket - start engine with diagnostic tool hooked up. Run engine to 4000rpm and gently tap the TPS (or ECU) See if this has any effect.
Tomrrow will be riding it if it rains.
Ideas always appreciated.
Stig