Scooters - 125 to 300 > People s200

Elec / Starter Issues

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pedrazo:
Hi all, been trying to get to the bottom of some electrical / starter issues and am stumped.

The main symptom right now is that the bike seems to struggle to turn the starter motor. It will hesitate before turning, sometimes with a little "charging up"-type electrical whine, with a resulting large voltage drop at the battery. This is leading (I think) to bad batteries - I've now replaced multiple over the last few months. It will turn after this struggle and and it will start, especially with a jump pack. It also seems sporadic and seems to crank easily sometimes too. And once running it operates just fine.

Initial thought of course is "bad battery"; a new battery does help but then the bike kills it.

What I've replaced so far:

* Starter motor, thinking that might somehow be a cause of excessive draw
* Starter solenoid, thinking that it might not be engaging correctly
* Regulator/rectifier: the battery was measuring <13V while running and thus not charging. I thought this may be part of the dead battery issue but seems like it may be unrelated. Battery now measures between 13 and 13.5 when revving
* Starter clutch, due to a likely unrelated problem discussed in another thread where starter clutch was clicking / skipping / scraping / not engaging
* Stator, replaced along with starter clutch to try to fix aformentioned low voltage at battery. In any case it now sends 30-40 volts AC to the regulator as it revs
* Battery, far too many times
Some remaining hypotheses:

* Bad starter system ground; however motor and solenoid bolt both show same voltage to ground as battery, ground point in frame seems fine and I added some dielectric grease just in case
* Bad ground elsewhere? Ignition coil shows 0.1V drop vs. battery ground but it runs fine. Would one of these ancillary grounds lead to a hard start?
* Kickstart interfering. This is an interesting one. I haven't opened up the kickstart yet but it does not function. It doesn't seem to engage nor spring back to position. Could something here interfere / add friction to make it more difficult for the starter motor to function?
* Valves out of spec; however I had thought this would lead to lots of cranking and not hard cranking
* Too much compression?
* Bad CDI?
* Cold weather exacerbating things?
I had also seen references to an S200 recall for electrical issues but can't find details and am not sure if it might be related.

For my next steps I was planning to 1) pull the spark plug to see if it cranks without the hesitation and 2) open up the kickstarter to see if something is engaging there. But do you all have any other thoughts? I'm even less electrically-inclined than I am mechanically-inclined but have now had this bike apart more times than I can count trying to figure this one out. Thank you!

Ruffus:
@pedrazo welcome here within this hive!


--- Quote --- For my next steps I was planning to
1) pull the spark plug to see if it cranks without the hesitation and
2) open up the kickstarter to see if something is engaging there. But do you all have any other thoughts? I'm even less electrically-inclined than I am mechanically-inclined but have now had this bike apart more times than I can count trying to figure this one out. Thank you!

--- End quote ---

To 1: good idea to check how your motor cranks without plugs
To 2: if the kickstart would be engaged, there would be a rattling/ grinding noise to be heard.
BUT, to eliminate this as a culprit take off your CVT cover and have a look into.
Try to start without it, let's see.

Go direct with small jump cables from an external battery direct on your starters plus and minus. How is it behaving?

Try to put an additional cable from  battery minus to your starters minus/ ground. Dielectric grease helps only when the ground parts are mechanically clean/ blank and not corroded.
Also within one of your power cables might be corrosion, therefore direct.

Pls see this link, maybe some idea comes up.
https://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=31637.0

With starter solenoid you mean this relais on the scoots upper frame with a fat red and black cable?
If this clicks only, then too less energy is coming even a new battery is installed. Cables corroded or not tightly fixed.
Pls give us a feedback to learn.

Iahawk:
I believe Ruffus has shared pictures before of a cable that appears perfectly fine from the outside but is really a corroded pile of powder inside the sheathing. With all the parts that have been replaced this seems like a great place to look.

pedrazo:
Thank you Ruffus and IAHawk! This forum really is a wealth of knowledge.

First off - yes by solenoid I was referring to the starter relay (starboard side of bike with the two bolts and fat cables).

Last year I did have a similar problem to the thread you posted, where the rear ground was poorly connected. Power would intermittently flow to the starter but fixed that by locking down with a new bolt. That ground point shows same voltage as the battery so I think it's OK.

Before it got dark tonight I took off the left crankcase cover and though the kickstart parts are worn and rusted a bit, that's not the issue. The starter motor still struggles to turn just the same with the cover and kickstart apparatus off the bike.

I think I may be on to something though: the variator is quite difficult to turn by hand and rotates with uneven difficulty. It will be very difficult to turn, but after you force through that difficult point, it becomes easy to turn. It's then easy for ~2 revolutions before it reaches the difficult spot again. So that is why the starter motor is sometimes able to spin relatively freely, but then other times hesitates and uses a lot of juice to crank.

Now am I just describing powering through the compression stroke and it in fact should be this difficult, and we're back to an electrical issue where there's not enough power flowing to crank it? I didn't have a chance to hit the starter with the sparkplug out but can test that tomorrow. I also just got some feeler gauges in the mail and can try out adjusting the valves if that might be the culprit - I don't fully understand this stuff but would a very tight intake or exhaust valve make it difficult to turn?

Iahawk:
pedrazo, I think you're describing just what you said..you're feeling the 4 stroke motor go through each stroke, with the compression stroke being the hardest to push through. If you try it without the spark plug it should feel different.

Another random thought...I had (have) a pretty severe parasitic draw on my S200. It killed a couple of batteries far too quickly until I figured it out. Could it be that you also have a stronger parasitic draw that is affecting your battery more than you think?

https://www.wikihow.com/Find-a-Parasitic-Battery-Drain

(my draw was traced to my lighting control module. I replaced it with a new Kymco part and the draw continued...so I just disconnect my negative battery cable between rides. takes about 10 seconds and lets my battery live a nice, long life)

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