2005 People 150 - Carburetor - Help!!

[Dimi_CA]

Good Morning Gents,

I have scoured the interweb for a replacement carburetor and no one has it. One of the sites had the courtesy to tell me item is on backorder from Kymco with no ETA. Carburetor part number is 1610K-KHB5-M30.

This is the issue:

I let it sit for years in my garage. After replacing the battery it kicked over, would hiccup, then turn right off.

This is what I did to try and fix it:

I took apart the carburetor and cleaned the jets, serviced everything I could per a step-by-step youtube video. After reinstalling the carburetor the scooter fired up and would run anywhere from 5-30 seconds before hiccuping and stalling out. Seems like its initially getting gas but then nothing afterwards. I can keep it running if I keep my hand on the throttle and push the scooter forward on its stand so that the tire is free to spin. So something is going in with the idling, I assume.

I then found some carb on ebay that looked exactly like it for 50 bucks and the listing said it was guaranteed to work on a People 150. When I received it I noticed it had one extra inlet/outlet for a vacuum line, I spent far too long searching for the missing line before I realized I should compare to original carb. Once I saw the original carb didn't have that pipe I just capped that off and installed. The bike won't even try to start with the new carb. I gave up and left it as is with the old carb sitting on my desk as I type this.   

Two questions:

1. Knowing that the jets were cleaned what is happening here and how do I fix it?
2. Are there any leads on where or *when I can get a new and/or functioning carb for this thing?

Appreciate any insight you may have for me.

[Dimi_CA]

For info/entertainment purposes this is the carb I ordered from Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/263850368845

This is a rebuild kit I am thinking about purchasing from Ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373730273365

[Iahawk]

carb issues can be frustrating...lots of things gunk up when sitting for a long time. You said you've cleaned the carb per youtube video instructions. Have you gone back and done it a second or third time? Have you tried replacing your pilot jet? Those are a bear to clean out that tiny, hair sized hole. Have you cleaned your idle air control passage? Have you shot carb cleaner and compressed air through every single hole you can find in your carb?  Totally disassembled everything, inspected all rubber for tears, pinholes, etc.?

Have you verified that your vacuum operated fuel petcock is delivering fuel? (Assuming you dumped any old fuel in your tank and replaced with fresh fuel?)

Is your airbox clean and free of obstructions?

I do see a carb available on kymcopartsonline.com..but I know it can be hard to source old Kymco carbs.  If you can't clean it have you tried all available Kymco online sources? Your local Kymco dealer?

1610K    People 150 - CARBURETOR ASSY - 1610K-KHB5-M30    
1                                                                                             159.37

[Dimi_CA]

Thank You for the response.

Have you gone back and done it a second or third time? Negative. If you are suggesting to do so, I will.

Have you tried replacing your pilot jet? Negative, where can I source one?

Those are a bear to clean out that tiny, hair sized hole. Have you cleaned your idle air control passage? - Where is the Idle control passage? If it's on the carb. probably. Please let me know where it is and I'll hit it again.

Have you shot carb cleaner and compressed air through every single hole you can find in your carb? Yes.  Totally disassembled everything, inspected all rubber for tears, pinholes, etc.? Yes.

Have you verified that your vacuum operated fuel petcock is delivering fuel? (Assuming you dumped any old fuel in your tank and replaced with fresh fuel?) - Where is the vacuum operated fuel petcock? Yes, I dumped the fuel.

Is your airbox clean and free of obstructions? I have never ridden it since replacing the filter. Will check it.

I do see a carb available on kymcopartsonline.com..but I know it can be hard to source old Kymco carbs.  If you can't clean it have you tried all available Kymco online sources? Your local Kymco dealer? I ordered from that site, as well as powersportswarehouse and they both denied the order. Nearest dealer is 50 miles away but there are a few within 200 miles. I didn't even know there were dealers around here as I bought this scooter used as a project for paint restoration. I will give them a call.

[Ruffus]

@Dimi, welcome here in this hive.
As Iahawk already said, it's sometimes nasty to get an old carb operational again.

Swapping jets is pretty easy, IF they are the same thread as the jet-stock. Has to be checked before.
There are not so many different thread sizes in this range of carbs, either 4 or 5 mm thread. Except pilot screw, its 6x0.75mm fine thread.
For carb testing, air intake hose off from carb.

Pls give us some pics of your new carb to see what we can do about.
Your "new" carb has how many small inlet pipes?

Pls see pic, is this exactely the carb you have?
-should be a 26mm CVK carb for 150ccm
-red arrow indicates fuel IN line, all other tubes there need not to be alterated
- the lowest, coming from bowl is the drain tube
---two others, shorter, support your idle and vacuum system
-you need a vacuum line between your fuel pump and your "intake " between carb and cyl head

This service set you show there is for a completely different kind of carb, a PWK-type, will not fit on any modern KYMCO.

Maybe this helps you to ....
https://www.kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=31762.0

[Iahawk]

I would definitely give the carb a full 2nd or even third cleaning. It's very easy to miss a tiny spec on the first go around.

here's a link to Jetsrus.com..  https://jetsrus.com/a_jet_kit_scooter/honda_250_CN250_helix.htm     they sell Keihin jets (which is what we have). You'll need a 35 pilot. (you can also source from your Kymco dealer). That seems to be common on the 50/125 and 150 cc Kymcos. Your pilot jet will have a number stamped on it..it should be 35. Don't worry about the Honda Helix reference on this page, these are the jets that also work in our scoots.

The idle air control screw / idle air mixture screw will be somewhere around the engine side of carb, around the round outlet where the carb attaches to the rubber intake.  It is a small brass screw with a fine tip. It will be either vertical or horizontal. It should have a spring, tiny O ring and tiny washer. You may have to gently dig in to pull out the washer and O ring after you remove the screw. I have found a paper clip, cut straight, with a tiny bend in the tip can help fish out the O ring. You should count how many turns out the screw is before removal...you do this by gently turning the screw in (clockwise) and counting exactly how many turns it takes to seat it in completely. It should be around 2 1/2, 2 3/4, etc. When reinstalling you want to seat it completely then slowly back it out the correct amount of turns.

I'll attach a generic pic of an idle mixture screw to show the parts. I'll also attach the Kymco recommended # of turns out..it looks like 2 3/8 to 2 3/4 for 125cc and 200cc Kymco scoots...so I'd guess your 150cc would be the same.

Finally, your fuel tap / fuel petcock is the fuel valve that is attached to the underside of your fuel tank. Follow the fuel line from your carb back to the fuel tank. It will attach to the fuel tap. (Highlighted yellow in pic) Your fuel tap is vacuum operated. The engine pulls a vacuum and the fuel tap opens, allowing fuel to gravity drain to your carb. From sitting for years the fuel tap may be clogged or stuck shut. You can pull vacuum on the line (attach a mityvac type device or maybe just put in mouth and suck hard?) to see if you can get the fuel tap to open (disconnect fuel line from carb so you can see if fuel comes out). You may need to remove and disassemble and clean the fuel tap (not highly likely, but a possibility).

You need fuel to flow freely, you need a perfectly clean carb, no obstructions in the air flow and no vacuum leaks in the engine. Double check all your vacuum lines on the engine (there are quite a few) to make sure none are cracked or have tears or holes.

[Ruffus]

Good points hawk, only one thing:
-our vacuum pumps do not work on permanent suction, for its diaphragm depends for pumping on oscillating moves.
- Needs the OFF/ON suction from its intake manifold, to be reached also by using the starter motor.
-only suction direct (bypassing fuelpump) shows effect
(att pic shows right pilot screw)

[Iahawk]

Good points hawk, only one thing:
-our vacuum pumps do not work on permanent suction, for its diaphragm depends for pumping on oscillating moves.

Great point, Ruffus!

Thanks for showing a correct pic of the idle screw, along with the proper orientation of the parts that go with it.

[Dimi_CA]

Happy New Year, Gents!

Excellent information in all the posts. This forum is awesome! I'll be tearing into it today. Pics and info to follow.

[Dimi_CA]

Hello All,

Sorry for the long delay but I was unable to get back to the scooter until last week. The carb that I ordered from ebay was non-op so I went ahead and opened the original one back up. Both jets appeared clean but I hit them with carb cleaner and air for a second time as suggested. When I buttoned it back together it was able to fire up for a few seconds and then die out just as described in my original post. The only way to keep it running was by adjusting the throttle cable screw to keep it open to the point where the wheel started spinning, thereby taking it into some kind of mixture that allowed it to stay running.

I went ahead and decided to change the spark plug as well as all the vacuum lines except the one going back to the canister and that didn't help.

Eventually I said why not unplug that black thing with the green + yellow wire and voila - It started idling nice and easy.

Questions:

1. Is this a cold start thing? If not, what is it?
2. If it is a cold start unit of some sort do I need it? Is it ok to leave unplugged and ziptied away from harm? I have tried starting it in the morning and it fires up if I open the throttle a little. I live in CA and I don't daily it or drive it in freezing weather.
3. I noticed there are two screws holding it in place which tells me it is adjustable. I tried adjusting it counter-clockwise and clockwise but it continued to repeat the same symptoms when plugged in no matter how it was pointed. How is it calibrated? Is there some signal other than power it is supposed to be receiving?
4. What is the recommended idle speed?
5. I used 10w-40 4T full synthetic for oil - is there not a filter on this scooter other than the metal suck between the drain plug and retention spring?
6. How often should final drive oil be replaced? I'm at 19k KM and I've only put about a small fraction of those on the bike. Might as well reset the clock on this too since I am able to service it I can track it. Is Lucas 80w-90 good for this? I've seen conflicting info on the forum.
7. There were some links to a service manual I found in other forum posts but they were all dead. Could anyone please help or email it to me if a small document?

Long story short I detailed it, took it for a victory spin and that was pretty sweet. All thanks to you, Gents, so hats off. I definitely wanted to follow up with the solution to get it idling! Any additional info would be appreciated.

[Ruffus]

@Dimi,
ad1) yes, it's your electric bystarter
2)let it unplugged and start with little gas
3)it's not adjustable, screws just holding it in place
4)idle 1800rpm
5)full syntetic 10-40 any brand is fine
6)gear oil change every 6000km with any 80-90 NON hypoid gear oil
7) manuals lib.com have a lot of similar scoot manuals in it
Congrats to your success.

[Iahawk]

Dimi - congratulations! If feels great to get one of these running correctly. The bystarter is a cold start fuel enrichment device. It has a needle that is retracted when cold, allowing more fuel to flow through a passage to help cold starts. as the scoot warms, the needle extends out to block off the flow of additional fuel. Not sure what is wrong with yours but if the scoot is working without it, who cares?

Your final drive / gear oil quantity should be stamped on your cvt case. Drain out the old and refill with the correct amount...and you're right, there is no oil filter on these little motors, that's why regular oil changes are important.

Post up a pic of the scoot if you can..we love pics!

[Dimi_CA]

Thank You, Ruffus and Iahawk for the answers.

I have a couple more questions -

1. What is the interval in km for motor oil change?
2. I thought non-hypoid oil was GL-4 but it doesn't seem to be the case, and everything I find on amazon is made for hypoid gears. Can you share what you personally use?
3. The left handed lever is broken and I can't find a replacement anywhere online. Has Kymco stopped making parts for these older People 150s?


Now on to the pictures. I took a pic of the brand new generic ebay carb next to the carb that came out of a People 150. Only difference is lack of port on the bottom for emissions, I think - It still failed to start the scooter.

The scooter was originally silver but I dismantled and had it painted white for a more expensive look. I chose the powdercoated wheel color and liked it in the past but not so sure I like it anymore. Might have the wheels re done one of these days!

[Iahawk]

the brake lever is the same as on my 2010 S200 and is probably used by many different Kymcos.
People S 200 - BRKT ASSY HNDL LH - 53178-KFA6-E00. I pulled a parts schematic and our brake handles are the same part #. Looks like the Kymco Agility also uses the same rear brake lever.

Oil change? 1000 km would be conservative...maybe up to 1500 km?  Manual for mine says change at 2000 km.
I use synthetic 75W-90 gear oil, 80W-90 works...Honda recommended 10W-30 motor oil for their gear oil for years...so I think most anything would work back there. Manual calls for 90 weight oil and 4000 km changes.

Scoot looks great in the white paint! You did a very nice job.

[Stig / Major Tom]

Nice job on your People!
Aaah....
I agree with you about the need to change the wheel color!
I think the silver/grey rims on the white Piaggio Liberty is a classy look.
See what you think.
Stig