KymcoForum.com
General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: thebatman on February 12, 2010, 10:28:00 PM
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im havin issues with my carb...no choke or airbox at all...runs, not right by any means. took carb to shop, he changed carb and now is running but he says i need piston and rings to be correct. says bottom compression wrong.the fault of no airbox....is there any truth to what he says or just trying to work me for more? still the carb??...plz help. any and all will be greatly appreciated..
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There is no way to tune it properly without the airbox! The first step is going to be getting whatever airbox or open filter you plan on using and then go from there. You can then move on to dialing in the main jet size and getting the rest of the carb adjusted. The only way to tell if the piston or rings are bad is by doing a compression or leak down test. If the motor is running you should be getting ok on compression, but if you find the carb is hard to get dialed in correctly, you may have a vacuum leak somewhere between the carb and the engine, or through the crank seals. The only way to properly diagnose these is by doing a leakdown test. Once again, the first step is to get an air filter on there!
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hey, thanks for the answer.. well the guy at the scooter shop did change carb, choke and airbox are in place now but running shoddy at idle or low rpm. thats why he said i probably need new piston, rings." its not bringing enough gas into chamber from bottom".. if i do that, THEN it will be right... whats the average life of a stock oem piston. want an exhaust but he told me its useless till i change/fix first, he is the seller of the exhaust .... said compression good on top, lagging on bottom.. ruined by my riding w/o the airbox,choke on previous carb.. ...see, im trying to learn this..lol. bought a manual but was told they are wrong sometimes, you just have to learn exper.....thanks for the help...
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It sounds like you are not getting enough vacuum to draw in the proper amount of fuel at low rpm's. This is probably due to worn rings. You may be able to just replace the rings and run a little extra oil in the fuel tank, but this may be just a temporary fix. Really it sounds like you may be best off replacing the cylinder and piston. I was running into the same symptoms with mine after about 10,000 kms. I bought it used and it didn't appear to be well maintained. I just replace my cylinder and piston with a 72cc big bore because it cost about the same, actually less than the stock parts. With the big bore you have to replace many other parts as well though. ie. carb, exhaust, cvt parts. It all comes down to what you want to spend and how fast you want to go! Your mechanic sounds like he may be correct in his diagnosis though. Typically these engines will last a very long time as long as you run a good quality oil in them! I'm more than happy to help, offer advice, just keep posting!
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mine has 14,000 on it...its been good, but i want faster of course, only going 47 right now..was told that big bore kits are short term..have to change again in 6-8 mths. for longevity/reliability, change pipe,weights,springs, leave stock head,etc.. he told me today he was 98% sure thats whats wrong,(piston,rings) not the carb now.. said pipe useless right now,id think he was crazy when i put it on, woundnt run any better..
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Man, we need to consolidate these two threads into one! Anyways, mine has a little over 14,000kms on it now and I think I put the big bore on about 7 months and maybe 5,000kms ago, can't quite remember. Mine has been running strong! I've gotten close to 55mph top and cruises all day at 50mph! I still have some more work to do!
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The way the batman is describing it , Sounds like the bottom of the barrel may be scored. If a ring hung up on a down stroke it is possible there is a groove cut in the bottom of the jug. Can you pull your cylinder head to take a look? If you see anything odd, pull the cylinder next to inspect the piston/rings. At that point you can do the necessary swaps your self.
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Makes sense, that just the bottom of the cylinder may be scored. Still seems unlikely due to the heat build up coming from the top side. Maybe I will learn something new though!
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Thats what i was thinking. Melted the top near the exhaust, hung a ring, and cut.
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Yep, makes sense to have the scoring below the exhaust port! However, I just looked at my old stock cylinder, and I had scoring from top to bottom between the boost and transfers. I'm pretty sure that was the end of the ring.
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hey man, thanks for the help out there. i will try and see. i hope i at least get my mpg back with the carb "fixed".. what have you done to yours so far?. i saw one on youtube i think, went 68mph.. thats better right there..lmao.. oh yeah, was also told that when i do put the exhaust on i will not need to rejet carb.. whats your take?. i live in the mtns...said i should get 55 without the big bore??
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Wasn't my youtube video, but 68mph is possible. I have done a 72cc Airsal cylinder, Technigas Next R exhaust, Arreche 19mm carb w/ K&N Filter. Malossi multivar & belt, CVT tunning, Motorio intake manifold & reeds, removed oil pump, and one of my favorites- Avon Viper Stryke tires in 130/70-12 & 120/70-12! Probably more I'm forgetting! I'm only getting about 50-55mph tops with the current setup, primary gears are next on my list! If you put on a new exhaust you will probably have to rejet. You should do an open filter along with the exhaust more max effect, which will definitely require rejetting! Only plug chops will tell for sure!
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man, sounds like you have everything on there.. see, thats whats getting me.. you have some cash in the ol girl..only going 55. i saw at scooterdepot.com, 150- for like 600. brand new and will go speed limit.i get discouraged with my zx, cuz its slower and harder to find parts.. dude said id get 55 with stock parts, just weights, pipe added... hows your takeoff? mine sux, but thats y he said piston,rings. wide open good
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My take-off is pretty awesome! You definitely have to be holding on! I can out accelerate just about anything on the streets, up to 50mph! I had some lighter rollers in there, but it was hard to keep the front wheel on the ground from a take-off! ;D I had to detune it a little to make it more "daily" ridable. Once I do the gears I should get another 10-15mph or so top speed! ;D You can just only spin the engine/rear wheel but so fast with the stock gearing! Changing to lighter rollers and heavier small clutch springs will help tremendously with your take-off!
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Forget about the 600 buck 150. The only way to get parts for them is to buy tree scoots. Parts for your zx are everywhere! 3-5 days shipping form all the shops we deal with here. Shaka hit all the hi points for you, and there are no drawbacks that i can think of. Mine is set up VERY similar to shakas. 47mm Malossi jug/head (70cc), technigas pipe, Malossi reed cage w/ Boysen reeds, Delorto 27mm carb, same tires as shaka, complete Malossi cvt, and polinni final drive gears (8.3-1) Forgot the racing coil/cdi/storage cap. With the gears I get 62 on the flat, and better down hill. Also whips a$$ on anything around here. It wouldn't make sense to do anything in upgrades till you find the problem you have. If it is a jug then This is what I would suggest http://www.malossiusaonline.com/CYLINDER_KITS_s/292.htm (http://www.malossiusaonline.com/CYLINDER_KITS_s/292.htm) I have the cast iron kit. 2+ years on the jug, and just replaced a piston (my fault I burned it). Keep us informed what you find, and we can get you back up to kick as$ performance in no time. Besides we need more zx's here. The Ag's are breeding like roaches.
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Besides we need more zx's here. The Ag's are breeding like roaches.
Amen brother!
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daaaaam, sounds sweet on both of your scoots.... i have a long parts list before i could compete...lmao.... the guy at tge shop said i couldnt have take off AND top end.. the pipe and weights were for friday buuut he says this. even said changing gears was a waste(actual gear)???. must have been crazy to me, said i should hit 55 good wit pipe. guess i have to wait till monday, snowed AGAIN. couldnt pick mine up yesterday.. is there a difference on the variator itself over a oem?(roller weight cage)?? so an 8.3.1 over the stock 7.3.1 gear is a big deal.??.last thing on list??well i weight 220 myself.. should i go with 6 rollers??..sorry for all the ?? dude...
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I have 5.5gr Malossi rollers, and the medium Malossi springs in the clutch. It is in the fine tuning that you get the best of both worlds! NOT in a one size fits all KIT. Most dealers are one size fits all. Some artermarket pipes alone will destroy your engine in no time. An expansion chamber or tuned pipe uses sound waves to PULL the exhaust out of the cylinder. this can avalanche into pulling the intake charge out. So a pipe alone will not do it for you. Work on your oem running issues, and get it back in shape. Then I would suggest good cvt parts. They don't cost too much to tune. If you need a jug kit, it will work with your stock carb/pipe (70cc kit that is) It just won't scream YET.
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Zombie has the gearing done in his scoot, so his cvt setup will be a little different. My current cvt setup is malossi multivar variator (which is different than the oem, larger face & more progressive roller ramps) with 9g Dr. Pulley sliders (a bit on the heavy side, to keep the front wheel down), Malossi kevlar belt, stock clutch with 1500rpm Jasil small springs, Malossi 1000 main spring, stock final drive gears. I doubt you can hit 55mph with the stock motor, best I ever got was about 47mph even with everything else tuned! Even as she sits now, I have to have perfect conditions to hit 55mph! Changing the cvt parts will not increase top speed only acceleration! It seems breaking the 50mph mark on a 50cc is where the extra mph get expensive!
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i cant even imagine the zx coming off the ground...lol for real, seems to heavy... yeah, im way behind then...lol.. i was gonna change the clutch springs, lil ones but he said those were tight enough and the stock var was ok... it seems more an more HE wants it totally stock.. i did choose the 1500 main spring. should i go 1500 or 2000 for the clutch springs? so i can put a kit on even before the carb..whew..lmwo cant do it all at once, unfortunately :'(
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I would say to go w/ the 1500. It will be more ride-able for now. You have a devil on one shoulder, and a demon on the other. Which one is which?
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more ridable for now??????...im lost, imagine that...lmao you mean ill have to get more?..ever any used parts available?
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I ran the stock variator for a long time, even after I did the big bore. It really didn't make a huge difference. You should be fine just changing the weights in the stock one. I would go with the 1500 small clutch springs and wait on the main clutch spring (it comes with the Malossi Multivar). I'm sure you could get away with running a big bore with the stock carb, but it will have to be rejetted! I bought all my major stuff as a kit from Moped Hospital. It is much more cost effective to upgrade that way! I totally understand not being able to do everything at once though! I had to save for awhile, while driving around with a weak motor!
Ps. I doubt you would be able to get the front wheel up with the 50cc, the 70cc has a lot more torque! Headwinds and hills aren't much of an issue anymore either!
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I would say to go w/ the 1500. It will be more ride-able for now. You have a devil on one shoulder, and a demon on the other. Which one is which?
...still trying to figure which is which......lmao
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Zombie has the gearing done in his scoot, so his cvt setup will be a little different. My current cvt setup is malossi multivar variator (which is different than the oem, larger face & more progressive roller ramps) with 9g Dr. Pulley sliders (a bit on the heavy side, to keep the front wheel down), Malossi kevlar belt, stock clutch with 1500rpm Jasil small springs, Malossi 1000 main spring, stock final drive gears. I doubt you can hit 55mph with the stock motor, best I ever got was about 47mph even with everything else tuned! Even as she sits now, I have to have perfect conditions to hit 55mph! Changing the cvt parts will not increase top speed only acceleration! It seems breaking the 50mph mark on a 50cc is where the extra mph get expensive!
..same here...it sux....
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what up guys? ok, got the piston,rings..being put on today, should be good..lmao.. now in what order do any of you say to putting parts on??(do have new springs already,of course unrescricted)...whats the purpose of removing the oil pump?..oh yeah, whats both of your body weights?..im 220, surely thatll change things?..
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I would put in the springs, next go to lighter rollers. They will give a higher launch rpm. you will be closer to the power band, and have much better acell. I weigh in at 200lbs. and my scoot has plenty of power to pull. I zip tied my oil pump open to keep the max mix at all rpms. I also run about 1oz oil in the fuel. I also have changed to a hotter plug to prevent oil fouling. Shaka pulled his pump because he runs straight pre mix, and wanted the extra rpm's the pump might have been stealing. What is the dealer charging for the work? Just curious...
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Exactly what Zombie said! I weigh about 155lbs.
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sounds like a plan then....well, the carb work was 65.. said the piston job should only take him an hr.(panels were off). 50 for that part. he charges that an hr. i know. said he was 98% sure itll be right now. i was thinking of some 6 rollers. i want to put that technigas next exhaust on with it, but you said not to, he said it would'nt hurt at all, said it'd help it alot an run a pod filter with a rejet.
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That is the way to go on the pipe. Install your air filter, and re-jet at the same time. The six gr rollers will do a lot better than the stock 12's. I would get four jet sizes to try to dial it in.88, 92, 95,and 100. With a stock jug one of these will get your top end correct, and you can tune the mid range by moving your needle height. I would also suggest running your idle mix screw 1/2-3/4 turn on the rich side. That will keep the piston cool on de-acell... You should be running close to 50mph with that set up. Pull back a little, and you might see some wheelie action.
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I think the 6 gram rollers may be too light. I would go more for 7 - 7.5g. You will notice a big difference with the Technigas pipe! Just be sure to rejet the carb! I'm also not sure you can change the needle height on the stock carb, I'd have to pull mine out and look. Actuallly, you said you got a new carb, is it a oem replacement?
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really, i see that these stock ones are 8.5.. guess one g can make a difference tho huh?... the carbs not actually new, it is to my scoot.. supposedly when i "cleaned" mine, i "cleaned" to much and opened holes to big??? i opened up every hole inside, made sure it was clear..idk?,. said that honda dio, dailim's(sp??) are same motors. still a keihin tho, lil bity thing...lmao...so you agree i can put pipe on and rejet before kit,( may have to ride for a day or two to get the cash up for kit)...lmao.. 7 rollers, pipe, rejet, pod filter.
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You will just have to re-jet, and maybe re-tune the cvt after the cyl. kit. That 1gr is per roller so when you add them up =6gr. The pipe will only work when you change the jets/intake filter. so doing them together will be perfectly safe. A pipe alone could go bad for you
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cool, thanks dude.. yeah, i cant wait to see how its running if its finally correct...rlmao... i may have to wait till friday for pipe, etc.... have any suggestions for co. for jets or would it matter?
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1g off each roller will make a noticeable difference! Like Zombie said, 1g is actually 6g of rotational weight. You will also want to install probably 1500 rpm small clutch springs with the pipe. These will allow the engine to rev up to the powerband of the pipe at take off. I have ordered my jets for my Arreche carb from provoscooter. I see they also have Keihin jets as well. You may want to email them with the model # of your carb so they can verify fit for you. They have always been very helpful answering tech. questions. http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/keihin-round-main-jet-99101-393.html (http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/keihin-round-main-jet-99101-393.html)
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got my scoot back tonight.. only rode in the parking lot but i could tell a BIG difference that quickly from the way it ran last week...think shes correct..cant wait till tomorrow so i can take it up the rd and see and make sure i still have my 45-47 mph.(hope a bit more).i should have pipe,rollers this week. dude still told me that i dont have to rejet with pipe, and to go with 6-6.5 rollers: said i could even go 3 12's??? did put a 130 tire on also..
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I'm sure you will notice a difference with the 130 tire. What kind of tire did you get? Don't run the 3 roller setup! They will prematurely wear, along with other issues I've heard! You may not have to rejet with just the pipe, but you will not be getting the full advantage unless you also replace the air box with an open filter. You will definitely have to rejet with both! You can't get more air out without letting more air in!
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DDidn't you mean 25-27? Just messing! I see another EBay junkie... Here's a link to what your spark plug should look like http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:GWxVkWUBzb4J:www.paradrenalin.com/Spark%2520Plug%2520Color%2520Chart.pdf+spark+plug+color+chart&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESij0N5FFPocWiwf4VDFupy6mWSfW6Y9XR0I_Ymp64WOx9D72jUqD0kdOAEnh0fH7FRyozRn6oa_BFhYYouLdpfkta1EnqOVruCfhs02ooOG3qCxPLQkfktjuf4Q_pCJn7iBOWun&sig=AHIEtbQIrrHzVlFaomFOfOEef_UncivxVg (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:GWxVkWUBzb4J:www.paradrenalin.com/Spark%2520Plug%2520Color%2520Chart.pdf+spark+plug+color+chart&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESij0N5FFPocWiwf4VDFupy6mWSfW6Y9XR0I_Ymp64WOx9D72jUqD0kdOAEnh0fH7FRyozRn6oa_BFhYYouLdpfkta1EnqOVruCfhs02ooOG3qCxPLQkfktjuf4Q_pCJn7iBOWun&sig=AHIEtbQIrrHzVlFaomFOfOEef_UncivxVg) CCheck it after 3--5 miles, and see. Check again after 10 or so. you will see that your plug will tell all about your tune. You can narrow your tuning by checking a new plug after 60 sseconds at a particular rpm range. Ask shaka! I think he is still selling "slightly" used plugs!
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yeah, i didnt even like the 3 roller idea.. shop guy had said the pod filters let in dirt, if i hit a puddle, rain, that itll kill my motor..i try not to run through puddles...lmao but i have been caught in rain,hail several times..still swearing the kits arent good. EVEN said about your longevity with both of your two kits.. said you was lucky.. oh crap, fine tuning will probably kill ME...lmao(multiple plugs,multiple sets of rollers,etc.. )...eh, it had a parts unlimited, drag specialties, tag on it but its a taiwan?? tire.. not a michelin for sure...lmao. i was in need of one badly.. i see snow AGAIN outside sooooo, hope i can get it out..lol
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hey guys, well i tried to check out that link you sent...im on my phone,puter died so im not sure why i couldnt pull it up. so why am i looking at plug?? look for??....i actually lost 5mph with the new main spring?? normal loss??.. take off is way better tho. hope pipe and rollers will give it back and then some....ill tell you now, i am a box of rocks on sum fine tuning, like i know if its "right"....lmao....hmmm, next to do list plz....lmao
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I'll post the link again for the plug chart. The color of the plug will tell you everything that is happening your combustion chamber. When you see the chart you will understand. http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:GWxVkWUBzb4J:www.paradrenalin.com/Spark%2520Plug%2520Color%2520Chart.pdf+spark+plug+color+chart&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESij0N5FFPocWiwf4VDFupy6mWSfW6Y9XR0I_Ymp64WOx9D72jUqD0kdOAEnh0fH7FRyozRn6oa_BFhYYouLdpfkta1EnqOVruCfhs02ooOG3qCxPLQkfktjuf4Q_pCJn7iBOWun&sig=AHIEtbQIrrHzVlFaomFOfOEef_UncivxVg (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:GWxVkWUBzb4J:www.paradrenalin.com/Spark%2520Plug%2520Color%2520Chart.pdf+spark+plug+color+chart&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESij0N5FFPocWiwf4VDFupy6mWSfW6Y9XR0I_Ymp64WOx9D72jUqD0kdOAEnh0fH7FRyozRn6oa_BFhYYouLdpfkta1EnqOVruCfhs02ooOG3qCxPLQkfktjuf4Q_pCJn7iBOWun&sig=AHIEtbQIrrHzVlFaomFOfOEef_UncivxVg) Which spring did you install? It may be too strong for your set up. The take off is better because the spring is holding the ramp closed longer. With a new pipe/intake filter/jets you will gain the power to compress that spring. If you go lighter on the rollers now you will loose more top end. The larger tire will add to your top end once you have the torque to spin it up. I believe I see 2-3 mph from the 130.
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Like Zombie said, if you go too firm on the main clutch spring you will loose some top end due to the variator not having enough pull to compress that spring and open the torque driver. If you go with heavier rollers you will get your top end back. Like I said before, everything has to work together!
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i installed the yellow 1500 spring... i thought when i put the pipe on, i wanted lighter rollers???. the factory ones r 8.5...i definately dont want to go slower.. dude still says no pod filter, well i even had on my car and i didnt destoy the engine..lmao. makes sense tho. more air, more fuel,, more power.. has anyone removed front turn signal and wired to euro covers??
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I'm running the white Malossi spring "1000" so I can imagine the yellow one slowed you down! Are you still running the stock 8.5g rollers? When are you getting the pipe? If soon, then I would just wait till you install it to do the final cvt tuning. With the pipe you will also have to change your small clutch springs. These will allow you to take-off from a stop in the power band. There is not really much point in doing the pipe without the air filter. The air filter will be your "restriction". Can't flow out more exhaust, without sucking in more air! I do have just a pipe on my Vento, but I'm trying to keep that relatively stock. I may end up changing the air filter out it, but I haven't gotten that far yet. It's a project in the works. It definitely needs the cvt tuned though! You might find you like it with just the pipe, and no air filter. It will be much quieter! If you want to squeeze some more performance out of it you will need to allow more air into the motor!
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Ok I think I got it. With the pipe you do want lighter rollers they will allow the rpm to reach the point where the pipe, and porting build the most torque. (powerband) with that extra power there is enough torque to open your ramps. If you clog that all up with a factory cork, you would be better offf forgetting the pipe for now and tuning the cvt to the max. swapping springs, and rollers is much cheaper than plugging up an expensive system. The second problem with that is you will never be able to tune something like that to run correctly. And Yeah! you just cut the wires going to the l/r stalks, and run them up to the lamps. Those round reflectors will fit into the mount holes left by the stalks
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tis i again... ok, since i put the yellow 1500 in, should i keep the same with small springs?(i dont think he has white in stock,just 1500-2000)...i have a REAL DUMB ? for you...cvt,(clutch,vari,timing)???? i hope to have pipe, rollers today, if not then on monday. maybe the shop wants more stock than tweaked performance...idk..pfft--i want take off, speed, looks...seems sum parts are cheaper than others but i assume it would be pointless to get before other things????(tunable cdi 50,coil 30,etc..) any weight reduction besides carry rack?
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I try to answer last to first. I haven't even thought about weight reduction. The only way to get it is VERY expensive parts. (wheels, Aluminun flywheel...) I dont think there is a tunable coil for the superfever./ The best one I found is the factory "race" programed. (Suitai). The coil can be gotten here http://myworld.ebay.com/kingstarscooters/ (http://myworld.ebay.com/kingstarscooters/) It is not in there listing at the moment, but email them, and it is $19.99 shipped. There are 2t, and 4t versions of the same coil so be sure to order the 2t version. Which pipe did you order? That will determin which rollers to use. I would go ahead and use the yellow set up Contra spring/clutch fly springs for now. The pipe (depending which one) will lite up your engine so they will work. Just post with what you have to install, and we can get it sorted out with you. Tuning is very individual, and it may take several set-ups to find what you like. The good part is it will go from 1+ hours to trade rollers to 15-20 minutes. once you see what each part does you will start to make sense of what you need.
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CVT = Continuously Variable Transmission
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I meant a tunable cdi (not coil)
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yeah, i liked the idea of high rpms. the 50 for a cdi may be easier than 200 for kit..imma have to buy something every week looks like..lol.. ok then, yellow it is.. i am getting the technigas next chrome, which ill get rollers and small springs too.. i have to wait till mon now, closed on sat too.. thanks for the answer shaka.. i was way off...lmao... is there any REAL EASY way of getting the stickers off the panels?? too many kymco stickers ..lmao...
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I have the Next R chromed as well. It did come with rollers, but they were too light. I think they were 6.5g. I think about 7-7.5g is ideal. You will get better take off if you change the small clutch springs to 1500 when you install the pipe also!
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The easiest way to remove stickers is with a heat gun or good blow dryer. Move the gun around over the surface and it will soften the adhesive enough to peel the stickers off. Any glue left on the panels can be removed with de natured alcohol, or mineral spirits. They both make a mean Bloody Mary also... (kidding)
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WD-40 works really well for removing the sticky residue also!
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what up fellas?....im baaaack...lmao.. ok, got a pipe(technigas but different tip). was gonna put in 7 rollwrs but none in stock, so im working around with 3oem, 3 6's.. have total of 42.6 g rollers...what am i looking for, listening for now to know im on the right track with rollers??i havent done a pod filter, still stock..local shop advises against one..initial start up was real smoky, ASSUME just cuz of sitting for week,etc..
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I hope you got a couple of jets for the carb! Just the pipe alone will lean your fuel ratio. W/ the stock air bow I would think 3-5 sizes up should do it. When you install the pipe take a quick top end run w/ a new spark plug. About 60 seconds will do. Cut the engine and close the throttle. The color of the plug will tell if you need re-jetting. You are looking for an even tan color from tip to bottom inside the jacket. For the rollers you can mix them to find the best weight but do not continue to run them mixed as premature wear will result on ALL the variator variator parts. I am running 5.5's with a gear kit, and shaka is running 9.5 sliders w/ a stock gear, and I believe he is spot on w/ the 7-7.5 sugestion. Your own riding style will determine what you need in the end, but don't keep the mixed weights. What you will notice is as you go lighter you will require more throttle to get the same speed. The advantage is the 2t engine requires high rpm's to create its power. Same thing w/ your pipe. it is designed to allow the engine to turn higher rpms. You will feel where your engine creates it peak power, and will want to match your rollers, and clutch to make the engine run at that rpm range where you want it. Meaning twisting the throttle coming out of corners, or power at top end of the throttle only. That part is up to you
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dam, can i pay you to roll up here an tune it for me??...lmao...he said i wouldnt have to rejet,.w.t.h? even said it was fine to mix rollers..i have the equivalent to 7s in now.. wasnt trying to ride in this cold weather.. so in other words you leave the scoot apart too?? (if having to disassemble every 20 min)...
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You can pay me! ;D You just have to bring it to me! ;)
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:D yeah, see everybody lives way apart.im about ready, cuz im dumb when it comes to these things..i thought i was learning but everytime i stop i have 20 more ??..lmao.(sratches head) maybe i can get this page printed off so i can re read over and over...i do wonder since i live in the mtns an not the "flats" if there is going to be a difference??..i thought "bolt on" parts were going to be "BOLT ON"??.....lmao
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I swear there ain't nothin "bolt on" on these things!
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Don't stress it Bro. It will all come together for you. I believe you allready know more than your dealer. You can leave the cvt cover off to test ride, and tune. Just remove the jack shaft for the electric start or it will fall out on you. Try the pipe, and check your plug. that is the only way to know if, and how much to re-jet. Ps get yourself a small bottle of blue Lok Tite. Use it on the nut for the variator. Can't tell you how many posts I have read where the nut came loose. If you like the way the scoot performes w the rollers set for 7g's Just order a set of sevens on line! I use a pre paid debit card for all my on line shopping. In fact if you get a green dot visa/mastercard using a promo code I can give you. You will get $10.00 free put on the card. That ought to cover 1/2 the cost of the rollers.
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..wonder why the local hop guy insists against a high-flow air filter.....
???
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he says that dirt,water,etc. will get inside an damage my motor. says it dont help any.BUT, i know he used to race dirt bikes, ride them, even sells pod filters for them...idk, its nuts.. even told me didnt need or have to change small clutch springs, said oem is good... hes the only one around here that i would even consider cuz another local shop sux bigtime. nothing but issues in town..idk if he just loves oem or what, its frustrating in my world, I DONT WANT O.E.M, I WANT TWEAKED OUT!!!!...oh, does super9 parts fit on zx???. seen wrecked one, had motor parts...
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Super 9 is different. Some small parts may be interchangeable, but the majority are totally different. I'm sure if you're any good at fabricating stuff from scratch, you might be able to "make" stuff fit otherwise, it's not a direct fit.
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my take off sux STILL!!!!.... do i need lighter rollers(runnin mix set3-5.7,3-8.5. have sum ordered ) or put my oem spring back in..
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Yeah, that contra spring may be too stiff. You are using the Malossi yellow one right? You may try the oem one and if that helps, go with a Malossi white.
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Agreed, untill you get the pipe tuned at least. I think your shop guy is somehow related to Jprestonion. He doesn't advocate mods either. The problem with mixed roller weights is the heavier rollers are doing ALL the work, and the lighter ones are literally floating around doing nothing. You are going to take a step back, and get one part right at a time. Since you have the pipe I would start there. Get the pipe on, check your spark plug color at top end, richen your idle circuit. Once that is set go on to the cvt to take advantage of your new power curve.
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hey shaka, thanks for answering..i was thinking of trying ALL the 5.7rollers since its easier...lol its like it trys to take off in 2nd or 3rd gear(for lack of a better term).. it pulls hills better tho.. we have bunches here in the mtns..lmao ..its not malossi but yes a 1500 yellow, even had small yellow 1500 clutch springs installed today.. from dead stop, garbage,..like belt "tugging","slipping","jerking" for a sec then itll take off. if rpm high enough at red light itll go, otherwise bogs..
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what up zombie? ...lmao, maybe they are..i did pick up a couple plugs, imma try that test..i did like the mid range alot better, top end seems the same(windy and cold 2day). oh yeah, whats up with oil residue on my pipe, seems excessive for me. scott said theyll do that sum,(like spit residue). (my pipe and wheel have the residue)
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2t's will make a lot of residue to clean up. About once a week I take a rag to it all. Go w/ changing the yellow as per shaka. Try that 1 thing alone. Then you will start to narrow down the affects the parts have. Oh yeah my bad Wazz Up?
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My pipe spits oil everywhere! I'm also running very rich intentionally! As I posted earlier, est. 26mpg last tank! I use carb cleaner about every week or 2 to clean off the pipe.
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what up? well that just sucks about the residue... the smoking too??? idk if it smokes more or just more noticeable now...daaaaang, you mean i may have to purchase ANOTHER set of springs?? how much would the white 1000 reduce my climbing ability??..wasteful money isnt it??craaaaap... i have an actuall set of 7 & 7.5 rollers on the way also
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Buy a good synthetic 2t oil and that will get rid of the smoking. I have a box full of springs/ rollers. Be glad there not 100.00 a set The white may give you back some torque at the wheel, and the small clutch springs will give you more rpm's when you find the correct set up of roller vs contra vs clutch fly.
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well, i tried to change the spring but i cant break the nut.. so i guess i have to ride to shop and pay him to get it.. so everybody thinks its the main spring and not the rollers to heavy still??? this is getting real aggrevating up here..take off better wit stock pipe
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To get mine apart, I wrapped a rag around the clutch and clamped it in a vise being very gentle! Then I used a 40mm flat wrench (I think it's actually a 39mm, but that's what I had and it worked) to remove the big nut. That's gonna be a big tuning headache if you have to take it in every time you need to take the clutch apart! You could probably also use a strap wrench to hold the clutch!
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Iv'e been using a nylon strap wrapped around an old 6"x3/8" drive extension. Its also easier to break the clutch nut loose while the housing is still on the shaft. You will find a set up that works for you. Have you looked at any of the utube "how to " vids. There are are dozens on clutch/cvt tuning. You HAVE to keep tweaking untill you find the magic set up that you like. That's why I say you will get it. Practice practice practice. First time takes 1+ hours, 10th time takes 5-7 minutes. By the time you get this one right you will be posting the how to for others.
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what up guys? sorry i been away.. well for the sake of argument, i tried sum 6g rollers, way sucked..doing like 20 mph.. anyway, put the oem spring back in, not a real change at all!!. definately did not like the weaker torque..W.T.F???? needless to say, i had the new 1500 put back in. of course i had to run to the shop, never could get it broke lose, scared id mess it up tho too..lmao(kept twisting)(.need a new vise).. now id swear that boy did SOMETHING. definately not revving as high??.. i could rev it up to take off more than it will now...is it the clutch itself??? even tho it has new springs also? my speedo broke?? today somhow...AAAAHHHHHH!!!!!.....
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Glad to see you back! For my setup 6g rollers are way too light! I've tried them multiple times with the same result, super high rpm's and going nowhere fast! They don't have enough weight to close the variator. I've found a good trick for testing whether your getting all the way into "top gear" is to take a marker and draw some radial lines on the variator face and go for a top speed run. The belt will wear off the lines up to as high as it climbs the face. I've also experimented recently with "variator notching", it looks promising, more on that later though! It's still in the R&D phase. ;) The clutch fly springs control the engagement point of the clutch. If you are not revving high enough before take off you need stiffer fly springs. If you rev up and then drop down or bog as you take off, the contra spring may be too soft and allowing the variator to begin shifting before you take off. Kinda like trying to take off in second gear.
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exactly.!!!!!. 6s were terrible.. right, it was trying to take off, bogged, in 2 -3 gear, then it would go..when i left yesterday, it seemed, that one boy(NOT SCOTTY EITHER)(his new help).. now it doesnt rev as high before taking off, trys to take off wit HALF THE RPM as before i went..still in "second gear" also.. i put yellow 1500 (both springs).. scott seems to think i need a new clutch itself??? dont see that tho, it has new springs,plenty of pad left too..lmao.. i put the oem spring back in, VERY SLIGHTLY better, torque was worse, now the revving to take off way lower.. you cant put the spring in wrong, slight glaze on discs also but dam, it would still work correctly..oem discs are smaller than aftermarket, mine is anyway. pointless to go any further with any mods till i figure this out.. mid range and top is ok, (i guess, wonder if better wit 7.5g rollers or not)..
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AALLLLLLLL RIIIGGHHHTTTY THEN.......
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I think the 7.5g rollers are a step in the right direction. I think that the revving being lower at take is due to the oem contra spring. It is shifting into "2nd" gear before the clutch engages. You don't have enough torque to keep the engine in the powerband just after the clutch engages.
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Glad to see you back! For my setup 6g rollers are way too light! I've tried them multiple times with the same result, super high rpm's and going nowhere fast! They don't have enough weight to close the variator. I've found a good trick for testing whether your getting all the way into "top gear" is to take a marker and draw some radial lines on the variator face and go for a top speed run. The belt will wear off the lines up to as high as it climbs the face. I've also experimented recently with "variator notching", it looks promising, more on that later though! It's still in the R&D phase. ;) The clutch fly springs control the engagement point of the clutch. If you are not revving high enough before take off you need stiffer fly springs. If you rev up and then drop down or bog as you take off, the contra spring may be too soft and allowing the variator to begin shifting before you take off. Kinda like trying to take off in second gear.
..awesome idea!!
..aannd variator notching???
..come on man, spill th beans!!
;D
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I'm almost done with it. It is very tedious work! I've only tested it once and it seemed to work real well, actually better than my Malossi! I'm still working on cleaning it up and testing again. Maybe later today! ;)
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It's like that, then...
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Yup, like that! ;)
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I'm used to that...
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No dis-respect! I already showed you anyways! ;D
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:( :'( :-\ :( :'(
...i feel so left out.....
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Sorry man! Maybe if you get a 2T I'll share with you too! Just kidding, I'll send you a pic if you'd like!
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...but i'm having so much fun and at least a little success with this 4t!!... i can't stop now!!!!
;D
...but HECK YEAH!!...SEND ME A PIC!!!!
:D
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Haha! I hear ya! I'd be doing the same! Check your email.
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so whats up with this notching idea... how are you not gonna kill the belt???....... yep, i keep taking off in second gear...was revving high enough, then bog at takeoff, then not revving high enough , bog at takeoff still in "second gear"..sanded clutch discs, 7.5 rollers, seemed to help some. i dont think its right..have new 1500 thruout
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I'm getting lost on this one batman. heavier rollers will lower your rpms. Liter will increase. Are you getting full rpm's at full throttle? Top speed at full throttle? There are no GEARS so the analogy of second gear dosen't fit in my mind. Do you mean just a slow roll w/ low rpm's? or a slow roll w/ High rpm's? Stiffer clutch springs will get you further into the throttle before thee clutch starts engaging, and a stiffer contra spring will hold a lower ratio longer. If I'm lost it must be hell on you. Try going all stock, and trading the parts out 1 at a time so you can judge where the ill behavior is coming from. As you trade out parts post back w/ what you have, and what you would like it to do. Maybe it's just me But I don't follow where this tune went south.
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well your nemisis is back...lmao.. my take off seemed to be better wit the stock pipe, went to sh** wit the pipe added..i said "second gear" for lack of better term...slow ass roll, LOW rpms, then it picks up...im assuming im getting the right rpm speed. mid an top end seem good.. actually hit 52 today, (flat straight)...i do seem to like the 7.5s better then the 7s..seems to run better, dont hear the rpm "whine" either with them. the scooter shop wants to sell me a new clutch, said thats maybe the issue,idk.. new 1500clutch springs, 1500 contra spring.....
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I agree w/ your shop. You can add stiffer fly springs to allow more revs before rolling, and see if that gets you closer to what you want first. New is deff. more fun, but tuning will show what you need. Try the springs, and you may well do good. (That was some arch enemy kinda talk) MAY WELL DO GOOD!
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I agree somewhat w/ Zombie. I think that your contra spring may be too stiff and/or your clutch springs not stiff enough. After talking with Steve @ Moped Hospital about my setup; he recommended just changing my clutch springs to stiffer ones and leaving my contra where it is. I'm experiencing a bit of the same tuning issues as you after changing my final reduction gears. Steve also said that going with a stiffer contra spring is essentially the same as going with lighter rollers and vice versa which makes sense. I should have my new parts installed next Tuesday, so I'll let you know how I made out on the lower end acceleration. I don't know that you necessarily need a new clutch, but you might try changing the contra to a softer one first, like a 1000 rpm. I will be trying 8.5g sliders, with a Malossi white contra and Jasil red (1500) clutch springs.
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what up zombie?? what up shaka?? im back,.lmao.. i did notice that the oem clutch pads are way smaller than any aftermarket, whether cheap or good.. i had put my oem contra in for a bit, didnt really help any, should i have went to 2000 on the fly springs???. of course mine are 1500 yellow ncy brand...i dont have a card to order sh** so, in stock was my option...lmao.. i notice sum "spitting", a "slight spudder", in the carb, idk???? just once each time you gas it.. all these co. use different colors for diff strenghs...w.t.h?? shaka said RED 1500 jasil..red is 2000, ncy.. im assuming any kymco clutchs r the same, finally found a malossi white contra wit out buying the whole kit.. was also told they(white) are same as oem?? oem is like 800?!?!?!... i have to ask this to you both tho, do u work here, moderator or summmin??? naturally i was told not to listen to ANYBODY here,there, anywhere.. told just somebody wit money, bored and someone else does the work, no clue, blah, blah, blah.i am getting good stuff.
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...malossi white is 1000...
;D
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WOW BRO! I post here cause I needed a third opinion on trouble I was having, and the response surprised me! To see people willing to help others w/ no strings meant soooo much to me I felt I had to join up and return the favor. It has just become part of my life now. Skadamo is the guy that runs the show here. He also runs several other tech. sites. Well anyway... The stiffer fly springs are the next step. You are right about them all being rated diff. It is easiest to stick w/ one brand, and try them untill you get what you want. The sputter may be in the jetting. Try a new plug, and run it for 60 or so seconds at the exact point the spudder happens. The condition of the plug will tell if you are rich or lean causing it. Oh hey, see if you can get anyone that miss-trusts the motives here to sign up and post for awhile. Haven't had a real good flame war in quite some time. Also I use one of those pre-paid debit cards for my shopping. I have a good set up w/ a top company in the business, and if you want to sign up for either Visa or Master C. I can give you a referral # that will give us both $20.00 cash on sign up. You can Email me for info on that if you want.If you keep only the amount you need for your purchase there is no way to Hi-jack your funds.
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+1000 zombie, I was looking for a little advice and was overwhelmed by the advice and assistance. unfortunately I dont have much to contribute at the moment but maybe some day.
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Even the ?'s help others. Sometimes it will trigger another way of looking at a problem. I can only imagine how many people use the site w/ out joining or posting. As long as it helps, it is all good.
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I'm in the same position as Zombie. I found this site looking for info on doing some upgrades to my scoot and was extremely surprised with what I found! I guess scooter tuning has become a new found passion for me! I learn something new everyday by reading through the posts and answering questions for others. My goal is start my own scooter shop within the next year. I can say I know the inner workings of many other scoots on the market just by reading and helping others! I've never even worked on a 4 stroke scoot, but I'm confident I can troubleshoot and repair one!
As for your scoot batman; I think maybe trying either a 1000 contra spring with your current weight rollers may help, or keeping the 1500 contra and going with heavier rollers and also possibly changing to 2000 fly springs. I think ultimately your contra is too stiff though! I'm not sure what the oem spring is rated at, Slinger says 800, but Idk. I don know the Malossi White spring is longer as well as stiffer, however I have heard it called a 1000. The other problem is that the rpm ratings are all guesses. It ultimately depends on your individual components. That's why it's best to stick with on manufacturers parts. If your running NCY springs now stick with those, just go to their next size, don't switch manufactures and guess solely off their rpm rating.
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+1000 zombie, I was looking for a little advice and was overwhelmed by the advice and assistance. unfortunately I dont have much to contribute at the moment but maybe some day.
..i came here in july of last year...not knowing a dang thing about my scooter, except that i had just broken a belt and installed a malossi variator that "rattled" and i was trying to figure out why...thot i had done something wrong....
..i came in with a flourish and was truly amazed and excited so much that i posted night and day..for days on end and kinda pissed some ppl off and made a big deal of my member status and whew!!..what a treasure trove of information did i find...
..I had little or nothing to contribute to the forum, but these guys accepted me for the big-mouth, pompous turd that i was (am?) and helped me figure out every issue i came across with patience and a unbridled willingness to assist...
..i've learned a whole helluva lot since then and now i'm so glad i came here, and it's a good feeling when I can lend someone a hand in figuring out some of their own problems...
..you'll know soon enough sid, and i'm sure there are ppl reading your threads, and going..."hey...that sounds like what I have"...
peace
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what up?? iiiiimmmmm heeeeerrrree...lmao. sorry about being away...get irratated at the scoot sometimes..crashed my scoot bout 10 days ago..woman bowed up in front of me, slammed her ass..ouch!!. i HAD to have a rider wit me that day..that couldve been WAY nasty for me..whew!!. got all parts back on yesterday..while i was at this shop, told guy to ride it and tel me.. even he said it should rev higher before takin off.. yes i still have all 1500 springs in, i seem to like the top..i live in mtns, BUNCH of hills everywhere. afraid 1000 will kill my climbin ability???.idk.. i thought of 2000 fly springs, (this shop says no, too stiff,have to rev to high before take off). is it possible to get a bad batch of springs?? could i have bought the wrong ones??... think imma change brands. did think of 2000fly an 1000 contra..hmmm???..anybody have a used starter?. whats link to upload a pic of my scoot?? thanks guys, shaka, zombie, wordslinger, looks like sid now..
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What up Bro! Glad you /the passenger/scoot came out OK. I worry about that all the time. I think you should try the 2000 springs since the 1500's don't do it for you. You do want to have more rpm's to climb the hills. The springs should be pretty darn tight when you install them. If they just kinda wobble around they are too big for your clutch. Most of them are made for the after market clutches. I do know the Malossi spring kit works on the kymco clutch. Not sure about the NCY tho. It cant hurt to try them if you have them. Generally the mid weight springs work best w/ a stock set up. Your starter is rebuild-able too. any good starter shop can fix yours up for you. (about $40.00). you can upload your own picts. by clicking the Additional Options thing on the bottom left of the post screen. There is a free program called Picture Resize. http://download.cnet.com/Free-Picture-Resize-Starter/3000-12511_4-10297789.html (http://download.cnet.com/Free-Picture-Resize-Starter/3000-12511_4-10297789.html) It is the easiest to use for me. I think the kb size has to be under 190kb. It only takes a few clicks to re-size, and post. Hope some of this helps you out bro!. You can pm me if you need help w/ the pict prog. It is pretty easy.
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hey man...my passenger wasnt from here, higher up or summin...lmao somebody saved my ass, i was alone on it.. the parts hurt me this week for sure..lmao..see dont u even live in the flats,seems 1in fla and 1 in wilmington?? flatlands..lmao..my ass in the mtns, always climbing hills somewhere.. ty btw... im thinking the 7 rollers helped better out of turns but 7.5 rollers helped top end. maybe im not revving high enough to engage proper??.. sh@t, im like a dam broken record i know, dude i apoligize. may change brands tho, maybe i got a bad batch. i do know the contra is diff sizes, not sure which to get..lol what up with this jasil brand??
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Damn that sucks about your accident! Glad your alright! My current set-up is 1500 Jasil fly springs, Malossi 1000 (white) contra, Motorio clutch, Malossi Multivar, 8.5g Dr. Pulley sliders. I'm pretty close on my set-up. I think it could still be a little better though. I will try a stiffer contra, probably the Malossi green, when I get around to it. Also, may try the 2000 Jasil fly springs. I just recently got the new clutch and 1500 springs so I'm gonna run those for awhile while trying to sort out getting the engine tuned and mildly ported. I've also got some new piston rings to install when I'm done with that. I do live in the flats here in Wilmington, but hills don't phase me too much as it currently is. Jasil is available through Moped Hospital, as well as Motorio. From what I've gathered they are Taiwanese manufactured parts. They seem to be of decent quality.
Ps. Forgot to mention that I have a lower final reduction ratio so my set-up will vary from your stock.
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Nothing but flats here! If you liked the 7's for pep but had better top end w/ the 7.5's then the 7's will work better w/ a lighter contra spring (Malossi white) allowing the var to close easier. That set up will also give you slightly higher rpm's. 2t's LUV rpm's. That, and the mid range fly springs will really set you off.
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hey guys, whats the deal wit springs..been lookin at sum, i thought the fly springs were all the same, the contra is different, how do i know which one..seen sum for zuma,minareli,horizontal,qmb? ,etc,wth?? very seldom have i seen the name kymco on any springs, especially not a zx....seen scooter assasins ebay store, springs, but says puegeut?,stricker..difference???
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..dude, glad to hear you're okay...i've had some really close calls, but fortunately, no impacts yet...
..ain't looking forward to that day....
..i know that Leo Vince parts swap out with my clutch...as well as malossi...
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thanks dude, yeah that scared the sh** otta me.. couldnt see nuttin but the car,like tunnel vision..WHEW!! thanks for the answer.,i know i have seen different size main springs,(dia.).. do u think its possible to get a "bad spring"?
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Kinda doubt that! if it got bent during the install it would make a difference. Funny how life slows down when eminent danger is staring you in the face.
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Try honda dio or sym dio. yesterday we had a car coming at us on the wrong side of the road passing two trucks and a heap of cars, my wife was not impressed, trying to learn you dont need idiots like that. but hey, thats life, we are still here after all.
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..!!YIKES!!!!!
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:o glad you made it thru sid, hey slinger, dont think yikes came out of MY mouth..lmao...it can be nuts out there...
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http://www.malossiusaonline.com/category_s/23.htm (http://www.malossiusaonline.com/category_s/23.htm) That page has the spring sets you can use. Also note the brands that they fit, and you can cross shop using those models. Those are the same springs I run in mine.
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:o glad you made it thru sid, hey slinger, dont think yikes came out of MY mouth..lmao...it can be nuts out there...
..yeah, i was just tryin' to be cooth...lol...
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my phone must be killing me on here.. i looked at those springs, swear they all look the same...lmao..it only showed springs, didnt say any applications for them.. so black is 2000 in malossi brand.. want to trade out main springs also..whats the green??....goes white, yellow, black, purple, green?????
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Forget about the stiffest springs. They are for hi hp applications only. I am running the mid weight fly spring, and the Malossi yellow contra. Either the white or yellow contra, and the mid weight fly should work out fine for yours. The heavier the rollers the heavier the contra.
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Malossi does a few different sets of springs. I believe the ones you want are either the Sport Set #29 8746 or #29 9605. I think either one of these will work.
For the Contra spring they do:
White- 29 8360.WO Reinforced
Green- 29 8323.GO +60%
Violet- 29 8324.VO +82%
Blue- 29 8325.AO +106%
This is all per the Malossi catalog I have, It's hard to understand because it's in many different languages!
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they have yellow also tho..thanks, figured green would b way hard and for race apps.... how many of u are everyday riders of these scoots??..im havin to depend on mine for a while longer, lookin better an runnin way better to....lmao
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..i NEED to try the yellow (1500?) spring......
..i ordered one back in th' day, but the one they sent was the wrong O.D.
..too small...so they sent my some rollers in it's place cause they couldn't get a spring with the right od...
???
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Maybe... I just posted that on the other thread. 7.5 rollers, and the yellow contra.
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they have yellow also tho..thanks, figured green would b way hard and for race apps.... how many of u are everyday riders of these scoots??..im havin to depend on mine for a while longer, lookin better an runnin way better to....lmao
..it's 35 miles round trip to work and back...and i'm always goin' somewhere...
...50+ miles a day average....
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They do have a yellow spring as well, it's under a different category though. It's either white, yellow, red, or just yellow red, depending on the category. This catalog is super hard to decipher!
Ps, I ride my scoot daily, it's my only transportation!
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hell yeah...guess i just need a better job then... wish i had the $400 itll take for kit an carb..oh well, imma gettin closer..
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...i wanna try a "1500" spring...running the white "1000" now...
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They do have a yellow spring as well, it's under a different category though. It's either white, yellow, red, or just yellow red, depending on the category. This catalog is super hard to decipher!
Ps, I ride my scoot daily, it's my only transportation!
..don't feel left out...that's me too...
..got's 2 vehicles in the back yard and i can't drive either...
..kinda don't really want to so much....
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hell yeah...guess i just need a better job then... wish i had the $400 itll take for kit an carb..oh well, imma gettin closer..
..put a kit on dat bitch!!...
;D
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hell yeah...guess i just need a better job then... wish i had the $400 itll take for kit an carb..oh well, imma gettin closer.. One bit at a time... There is no problem doing it like that.
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..i wouldn't be gettin that carb if i hadn't hit on th' race pool at work...lol...
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..don't feel left out...that's me too...
..got's 2 vehicles in the back yard and i can't drive either...
..kinda don't really want to so much....
I got one in the backyard myself! ;)
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I got one in the backyard myself! ;)
..kinda sucks when it's raining.....
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I'm kinda used to it now! ;D
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..yeah, me too...
..it'll be 3 years in december....
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You guys HAVE to set up your OWN businesses! Start at home- get the word of mouth out there- Torrent an office program for fliers/cards... Any Business! When it rains I call the computer phone #, and leave myself a message "I don't give a cr*p how busy it is... I'm not coming in" That always makes me feel better. I'm sure I'm gonna fire myself one day because of that rotten attitude, but till then. Raises EVERYDAY!
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..yeah, i do a lil work on th side from time to time....
..capital....need monies to get it going....
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...and I make a damned good wage...
..then there's child support and alimony....
..which i take off the top....
..i get what's left.... ;D
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Depends on what you do. I took a wax job on a 48' Ricker sport fish @ $15.00 per foot. Got paid friday,(by my regular job) bought a $49.99 buffer, 20.. on waxes. It took me 9 hours to finish the job, and had 3 more jobs by the end of the day saturday. That was 12 years, and three states ago. Working in Carrabelle is the worst it has been, but I still pay the bills, and feed my dogs. If you don't mind HARD work in the sun then Yacht detaling REALLY DOES PAY. Most Marinas will let you use a little shop space for keeping tools, and such. A case of scotch/wine for X-Mas, to the owner/manager of the Marina. A few Hi ticket meals thru the year, and you are in like Flynn. Every job I get that is over $800.00 bucks, I leave a bottle of wine, Good Cigar, or maybe a pair of tickets to Celtic Women in the cabin w/ the bill. You can even train a buddy to help, and pay the fella/gal $150.00 a day. For that money most people will work the entire job for you, while you go and play w/ the scoot.
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...im googling Carrabelle...
..gotta spare room ???
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No Doubt!!!. Google will tell you it is a Little drinking town w/ a fishing problem. No traffic lights-2 gas stations-2 southern food restraunts-1 food store (IGA)-1 bait shop-dollar store-Western union-2 motels (for the adulterer's)-5 marinas, and 2 bars.
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...a Little drinking town w/ a fishing problem...
..ssssso...you gotta spare room??
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And a police phone?
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And a police phone?
..no 5-0....
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You saw that HUH? The worlds smallest police station! They used to park next to it and wait for calls. till the mid 80's. If you were a jack off kid you had to stand in there for up to 8 hours. (1 shift), and the whole town knew. Slinger I have a spare room, and 2 empty single wide 2 bedroom trailers. The room is free (split the bills), and the trailers are $400.00 @ month. When can I expect you? Oh wait there's a knock at the door...
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...brother, if it weren't for my girls, i'd head south in a flash...
..i lived in fort walton beach for about a yr, back in th' day....
..if BP don't get their sh** together, that beach may be ruined....
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I shoulda stated the police station was one of those old phone booths. Ps The Chief of police is my next door neighbor. He has stopped me from ball batting more than one of my ex's boyfriends. (come on over and have a beer w/ me) Not for nothing he is the most level headed person in this backwoods town! A been there done that kinda guy!
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You can smell the fuel in the air from here. There are 2 types of people in this town. Those that don't work, and drink 24/7, and the guys that make a living on Appalachacolla bay. In a few days there will be one type .
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...for real...you can smell it??
...that's baaad....
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I wanna come detail boats! I've got experience! I used to do a little of that in Seattle! ;D Just got done cleaning the carpets in a restaurant! Man, my back hurts! Back to the real job in a few hours! :-\
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My house is about 1/2 mile off the gulf. We were sitting out on the porch, and could smell what I thought was diesel. We went down to the "Old Beach" and it straight up stunk. They are saying maybe another day before it physically arrives on the beaches. It's funny that anyone would want to come here, when I can't wait to get out. My door is ALWAYS open! (no lock anyway)
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lmao...imma try for a kit one day soon, to dam many kinks..lol.... how in the world r u riding in the rain AND use a pod filter???? and not gettin damage?....oh yeah, got 2 in the yard myself and a go cart, broke down goldwing... cant stand another d.w.l.r.. bitches try and give me 5yrs for it...
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Broken down goldwing sounds interesting
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..i've ridden in rain so hard , that i couldn't see 50 ft in front of me...
..once a state trooper followed me for about 5 miles...
..guess he felt sorry for me..lol..
..lose a little speed in the heavy rain, but other than that, no problems...
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yeah, of course i was gonna custum the goldwing(well, help in it anyway) but it still sits too....... ..i have been in 2 hailstorms on mine here,that sux ass!!!!!!!!!!!! seems i ride in rain everytime i leave home..everybody here says thats y u dont run a pod cuz the wettness will destoy ur motor..said ANY weather at all, only sunshine ability.... oh yeah, whats the approx life span of a belt??
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I dont know but mine is 1,5000+, I bought it at 7,900 and I havent changed it yet.
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..my original belt broke at 30,000km
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i should be good then..i have about 7500km on mine, have an old one wit 6000km(oem)..
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hey guys, figured id mark my var to check distance wit paint mark..well i pulled it off and seems to b a load of belt dust inside the var..i dumped it out, quite abit since non supposed to b there ???? w.t h is that caused by..i know the belt..my "new" rollers have a nasty flat spot on one side (bout mth an half old)..y one side?? are carbon fiber any good?? have a set of 7 guess i better put in
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I run rain or shine with an open K&N filter. I've never really had any problem running in the rain, even torrential downpours! I did have an issue once of getting water inside while it was parked. I had the scoot on the center stand so the filter was more exposed to the rain. Now if it is going to be raining hard while parked I put a zip-lok bag over it just to be sure! As for the belt I replaced mine at about 10,000kms. The dust you are seeing in the cvt is a mixture of belt, roller, & clutch dust. It is pretty normal, I blow mine out every time I take the cover off as there is always more.
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Carbon fiber $ucks for rollers. It is toooo hard, and wears faster than any other roller. The Polyurethane rollers are the best in my opinion. There are MANY different formulas for polly, so even these are not all created equal. I have used 6-7 different brands, and none out last the malossi. When I was tuning the var I bought 4 cheap ebay sets from 4 different sources. They all turned out to be the same rollers in different packages. (made in China). So far the only bullet proof rollers I have used are the Malossi.
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ahhhh sh**!! dont say that... they were more...lmao..the brand in is "athena"evidently thier rollers suck, 1 1/2 mths old, bad flat spot.. the carbon ones r "adige".... remember yesterday i mentioned she didnt run as good as day b4? today.. she ran better than yesterday, had my 5-6mph back, THE ONLY THING I DONE....WASH IT AGAIN!!!!! see y i flip out, she is different DAILY!!!!...W.T.H??..mtn air???......check this, i took and sanded my clutch "disc", and lightly around cover..my take off was better wit the same springs as b4???...possible the 350+lb. owner b4 me hurt it???(the actual clutch,an the springs couldnt help) oem disc r smaller than the aftermrkt ive seen...that is wierd to me..i done that once b4, when i changed springs,takeoff better for a day or so then sh** again
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..the idea being, is that you get what you paid for...
..dunno what you paid for your scoot, but new, KYMCO is one of the pricier...
..the inherent quality is already built in..
..can't put cheap chinese parts in a KYMCO and expect it to perform....
..my brake pads that i took off th marshin are a perfect example....
peace
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o, i got a real deal on it...lmao.. didnt run, been layin in yd for yr or so.shes come A LOOOONNG WAY!!!...lmao..second owner, got it wit 6600km on it...alot been from here, i rode her messed up for awhile and screwed it up..imagine that..lmao....see those brands in shops around here...HEY, IM FROM THE MTNS., IM A BIT SLOW!!!!... RLMMFAOOFL!!!!!!!!
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..sometimes it's best to take things slow, and learn from your experiences...
..damn, i didnt know sh*t till i found this forum....
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oh absolutely, i have learned a bunch here, just wish i could memorize every word everytime...that would help me.i been gettin alot printed up ..lol
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...yup, i gotta 3-ring binder that includes my service manual, and numerous posts from this forum...always good to have a hard copy of what you find prudent....
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i know thats right....lmao...i started a folder, just found a post from shaka an zombie i need all 9 pgs....lol
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...those guys help me make my scoot what it is today...
8)
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Thanks for all the props guys! ;D
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..y' wecc'm my brother...it's true....
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I thought Cathroiexerzst was a girl! Thanks anyway~~~
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..spittin green spew even....
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imagine that i have a couple ?...1.) ever heard of/know of why the 2t "pop", as i seen u referr to it, on de-accel the pop is virtually non exestint at times, actually silent!!.... hey z, i seen on a post wit u an shaka bout how fast we should go, well shaka had the kit on an STILL only going what i am going NOW wit stock jug untill the reed cage was changed: would a reed cage help even wit stock jug since a, my speed same even BEFORE a kit,and b, cheaper than a kit for now to aid the scoot??....3.) since i an a jr on these on you all done all this work to yours, wel what have u done wit old parts?? how bout a tuned oem carb shipped?? got one anybody??....hmm?? really, what up wit old parts that may help ME?? i will buy!! the carb tuning, sounds whack, z makes his own jets?? oh sh**, wth? i buy sum!!.. i know alot to write, only like 3 ? tho...lmao..
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Reeds may help a little. I was suffering a power loss because I was running the stock reeds and manifold with a larger carb. It was creating a restriction so the additional fuel couldn't flow through. Malossi makes a reed cage that will fit the stock manifold. I have all my old parts, not really sure how they'd help you though? As for tuning a stock carb, there is not much to tune without the trial and error process of actually running it and doing plug chops. The only thing worthwhile I may have is some green Jasil clutch spring installed on my stock clutch. I have a set of new 9g Malossi rollers also.
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yeah, thats the part that scares me..lol SOUNDS very difficult and a severe pain in the backside...i sanded my clutch discs a touch seemed to actually help takeoff, wonder if IT'S the culprit.... id say 9s are way to heavy...lol...never had a silent pipe huh....was windy as hell today but has done it b4, just odd..i try to notice any an all sounds from it...
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Usually when the pipe is silent on De-accell, it is because the idle mix is too lean, and there is not enough fuel to burn. The thing to do there is go up 1-2 sizes on the idle jet, and re-adjust the mix screw. MOST stock scooters are silent at that point. You just don,t notice w/ a quite factory pipe. Getting my idle circuit correct was the hardest part in tuning the entire scoot for me. Mine is now way rich, as the mix screw is barely 1/2 turn out to maintain a good idle, and give me a decent mix on De-accell. something that would help alittle w/ all around performance is to replace the stock reeds w/ some lite weight carbon graphite. you can buy a few sheets of "stock" from most bike shops. I use .o29" Boysen reed stock. and simply trace the original reed on to the stock. It cuts easily w/ a razor knife after a few passes. Use epoxy to re-seal the cut edges, and holes. I use my old parts to make Zombies (dead scoots that I bring back to life). They would do you no good anyway. Tuning what you have to run it's best is the way to go until you upgrade some of the parts. Reeds are a good start. Rollers, and springs, variator, clutch, air filter, jets will keep you just under 50mph. The jug kit will add almost 5mph, and get you there quicker. I know it is intimidating at first, but the more you get done the more you will learn to do. You have all the right questions. experience will supply MOST of the answers. Look at sidthesloth! He doesn't need anymore help.
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Dont be so sure
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Got your back Bro!
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??? well if that keeps me only under 50 & kit adds ONLY 5mph($275 4 5mph)..why even mess wit that much since im at 47mph NOW. with only pipe, rollers, springs, no rev limiter?????? .....just changing reeds on that oem cage will help?? seen you mention the 2 petal, of course the oem is 3........ you say too lean, ok does it make a difference that my oil pump is running rich (i go thru lot of oil..lol)... so i was told, thru the cable at the pump...
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Every little bit helps, but once you get to the point your at it seems like every 1 mph costs $100 and many hours of tuning! The stock reeds are 3 petal, but they are comparatively small to the 2 petal set-ups.
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One thing I noticed when I derestricted the cdi was that it would do 80kmh (indicated) but that little engine was screaming her little tits off, when I put on the larger cylinder it will go faster but does not sound to be overworking, almost like it has a lot more to give, I just can't seem to get it yet. I guess what I am saying is if you can afford it, it would be worth doing. Just make sure you pick a better brand than the one I got.
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I totally agree Sid!
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seen you mention the 2 petal, By that I am referring to 2 STAGE reeds. This first page has SOME good info on them http://www.allthingsmoto.com/forums/f-62/reeds-2-stage-single-stage-37543/ (http://www.allthingsmoto.com/forums/f-62/reeds-2-stage-single-stage-37543/) This second page has some photos of 2 stage reeds. http://www.boyesen.com/cwo/OFFROAD (http://www.boyesen.com/cwo/OFFROAD) They are actually 2 reeds per side. 1 is VERY thin to open quickly, and give a better throttle response, and the "main" reed is stiffer to prevent fluttering at high rpm's. The draw back for us scooter 2t'ers is there is no low rpm range for us. var expands/clutch locks, and the wind blows. so the extra material on the 2 stage reeds is actually too thick to allow precise response at the high rpm's that we run. They do work very well on tuned bikes w/ a gear box but not for us
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your tryin to confuse me rnt you??..lol....i was thinking i coyld change all these 30-60$ things and be ALOT better untill i can go further...$50 is easier to get than an extra $275..i have a extra reed cage, maybe i am reaching way to soon, but some stuff would b easier to get than others for me at this time. am gonna get new malossi springs, rollers, was thinkin a reed cage may help also for my dam near stock rig,was thinkin reed cage, carb to go to.obamas killing me up here!!!!!...hope i dont offend you if your radical......i know i know, you wanna scream at me, i could b a burntout tho or maybe he rode the short bus, shhhhh!!!!!...RLMMFAO...
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anyway, check this....i was looking at malossi and seen a 70cc mhr replica cyl kit, will that fit a zx?? it doesnt have a head just jug,piston,etc.. could i use oem head?? they on closeout...this my kit??????.....
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They do make one that will fit. Post up the part #. It is not uncommon to reuse the stock head. That's what I'm doing with my Airsal kit.
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I didnt think you could use the original head, mine is a lot smaller.
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Your cylinder is also a lot bigger! My piston is machined flat around the edge, so it still works with the original head. Airsal doesn't make a kit that includes a new head for the ZX. It is specifically designed to work with the stock head.
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Ah, that is interesting. I had thought about trying my old one but it is too small.
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hey shaka......no sh** huh?...hmmm.. but is that why u are/were going as fast as i am NOW????... i didnt see a part number but i am on my phone i seen a product code: 318640... im pretty dam sure i cant see everything wit phone cuz i been to web sites and nothing shows up..i tried contacting them for the apps and the springs but the code to put in to submit wouldnt show, soooooo...what causes clutch disc glazing??.. clutch, set up, my fat ass??? i have gotten rid by sanding twice but surely it shouldnt happen in a few days......
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clutch, set up, my fat ass??? That is the cause. The more slip in the clutch the faster the glazing occurs. Also the material used in the pads, and the bell. Harder steel will resist glazing, and softer pads will reduce the effect more. The stiffer springs are a great big bennifit, a reed cage will help all around, if you buy some good stock, and throw away the reeds that come w/ the kit. All you need is the cage, and two sheets of carbon fiber at ..028-.034" thick. Shaka's kit wasn't pulling as hard as it could, because he never finished tuning the jug. Once he gets that all squared away you will se his post of 100 smile faces, and one of these ( ! )
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so my clutch sux wit my setup AND i need to lose weight????....hmmm??? what a pal you are!!!!....lmao...he is also using a stock head..i found a kit but no head a mhr replica 70cc..........hey also, i looked at sum springs at malossi and they confuse a touch..seen several sets..i want i guess is 1000- 1500- 2000.. the sets have, white, yellow, black..another has white, yellow, red!!... then u got green, red, blue (clutch springs)..seen two different white and yellow mainsprings, different prices too, looks like same spring, a red one was longer i saw....my phone us killin me i guess..
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Well I Meant NO diss respect to your fat A$$. You posted it... I would strongly suggest saving for another week or two, and getting the cast iron Malossi 47mm (70cc) kit. Just install the parts, and run. The spring colors apply to as you said 1000/1500/2000, and the reason for the different sets is different lengths. You would have to measure the stock lenght, and ask them for the appropriate set for you.
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well i am 6'2, 225..idk??? :P well that kit does come from malossi, just a mhr replica it says!.. guess im screwed until i can get to a pc, sum pics dont even show, to order springs..wanna try sum 2000fly for the sake of argument..i can either get this kit or a reed cage..... which is gonna help more at this time????.....oh yeah, z ive seen where you talk of a unrestr. cdi ordered one,etc.. well you said urs was tuned to the 04 factory settings... mine is 04, so my cdi should be good for the hall, right?? how the hell u gonna tune a box wit no settings to anyway????
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Yes, I'm using the stock head. Here is a pic of my cylinder. You can see where the piston is machined around the edge to allow the use of the stock head. (http://www.scooterperformance.ca/crv/img/454-02160246.jpg)
For the clutch you may just be best off with a new one! The glazing is cause by excessive slippage. You can try cleaning with rubbing alcohol or brake cleaner and lightly sanding it as well as the bell. I'll PM you a little tip on a cheap clutch, I don't know if it's still available though. The different Malossi spring sets you are seeing are for different clutchs. I think you want what they call the Sport Set #298746, they are green, yellow, & white. Otherwise I think set #297454 will also fit. It has green, red, & blue springs. I'm not sure of the difference between the two. They do one other set they list as their MHR racing set #298747, black, red, & blue, I don't think these ones will fit. I think deciding whether to get the cvt tuning done, or the reed cage now depends on what you are looking to accomplish. If you want to get higher top end, the reed cage may help a little. If you want to improve overall performance with the same top-end go for the cvt parts. Keep in mind that by changing the reed cage you may have to tune the cvt anyways. I always like to re-tune the cvt after I do any engine performance upgrades so I can see what exactly I have accomplished before I move on to the next mod!
Oh yeah, Zombie! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got the spacer fabricated and installed yesterday. I haven't put a whole lot of miles on it yet, but it definitely seems to have greatly improved my low-end and mid-range!!!! Haven't yet had a chance to do a top speed run. Also did exactly what the software said and raised my rpm a few hundred! She takes off like a bat outta hell now!!! Pretty sure I can wheelie if I wanted too!!! I ended up running a 1.6mm base spacer and no head gasket all sealed up with that anaerobic sealer you recommended. I ran out of time to port match the case, but that will come hopefully later this week if I find some time!
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what up shaka? well i plan on getting that same race var that sid has and changing the whole spring set up. gonna try sum malossi rollers, my last two sets have sucked of the brands i have....seen that mhr replica kit and was like thats me!!!! but thought of a reed cage too, didnt know which to get..lmao...kit or reed cage?????...hmmmm...the kit is on closeout for CHEAP on malossi so i figured it would be good quality stuff..guess i better go look at the pic again to see if that piston is machined on top for stock head too...i will order somethin this week lmao, wanted to today buuuuut this phone wont cooperate...i didnt see the w, y, g springs..saw w, y, r & w, y, b.... i cant even see parts numbers i guess(wit phone)..
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Is this the cylinder you are seeing on closeout? http://www.malossiusaonline.com/Peugot_70cc_Cylinder_Kit_CLOSEOUT_p/318640.htm. (http://www.malossiusaonline.com/Peugot_70cc_Cylinder_Kit_CLOSEOUT_p/318640.htm.)
That one will not fit the ZX, it's for a Peugeot. It also requires the use of the Malossi head. They offer that kit with or without the head for some reason.
Here is the MHR Replica kit for the ZX: http://www.malossistore.be/Prodotto.aspx?type=M&MM=MO/KYDY50&C=31%208473. (http://www.malossistore.be/Prodotto.aspx?type=M&MM=MO/KYDY50&C=31%208473.)
I believe this is the one that Zombie is running: http://www.malossistore.be/Prodotto.aspx?type=M&MM=MO/KYDY50&C=31%20847 (http://www.malossistore.be/Prodotto.aspx?type=M&MM=MO/KYDY50&C=31%20847)
This one says it can use the stock head: http://www.malossistore.be/Prodotto.aspx?type=M&MM=MO/KYDY50&C=31%206998 (http://www.malossistore.be/Prodotto.aspx?type=M&MM=MO/KYDY50&C=31%206998)
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>:( well i guess that settles that one then..that was it...i saw the peugot(sp?) name but.....
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oh yeah, thanks for the clutch info if you find it....
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Abso Frigin' Lootly, Shaka ! http://www.malossiusaonline.com/product_p/316405.htm That is the kit I have... If you Get the kit you can get the xtras later. If you get the extras first you may need to get them again later. A 28mm carb wont even run on your scoot. A set of 5.5 rollers would blow the engine in a 1/4 mile. A reed cage will improve the overall performance w/ the reeds it comes with. but the reeds it comes with will not work well w/ a kit if you don't upgrade the reeds. So batman I would suggest you buy good kit/ tune it / and get the extras last. Thanks for the 100 smile faces, and a whole bunch of these (!)
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ok, imma hold off on any kit or carb upgrade for now..i am getting different var, and reed cage, gonna REDO all springs again with rollers BUT!!!!!!!...... (she runs good now thanks to you!!)...the fine tune on a carb sounds way freakin hard but at the same time sounds easy!! if done by a shop, whats a good price??...what YOU charge?? oem 14mm.. just afraid ill end up throwin it across shop and REALLY hurting my chances...lmao
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Sounds like you made a good decision on getting the variator and reed cage. Another thing to throw out there, when you do a BBK and larger carb, you will need to replace your reed cage and intake manifold. What parts are you going with? The part # for my Malossi Multivar is 51 9988. The Malossi reed valve you want is VL9 part# 27 7740.CO.
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ok, now im ill.. i just got off the phone wit malossi parts dept.. said theie ISNT a reed cage for the zx.. NO listin for zx AT ALL.. tried to also get spring part numbers, said they dont have a listing for zx so he doesnt know what i want.. of course he asked how i knew it even existed, i said forum, ahh he said, thats the first problem....am i missing sumthin or was he just a dick???? thanks for those numbers shaka, thats the same as zombies correct?? (the reed cage)
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Those are the correct part #'s. The problem you are having is probably that Malossi doesn't list any parts for the ZX50. You have to cross reference off of known fit. I know for a fact the variator is the correct part # because that is the one I'm using. I'm about 95% certain that reed cage will fit. I don't know what reed cage Zombie is using, he has an intake manifold for his 28mm Delorto, but not sure how the reed cage sits.
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M2711796 That's the # for my cage. The var is the same as shaka's. The delorto manifold is a straight bolt on
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hey guys, big issues this evening... rode out to the scooter shop wit those 7 rollers i had to install(7.5 much better).. left omw home i was coming down rd at about 48, ALL OF A SUDDEN SHE DIES!!!! rolled to a stop.. at glance, everything appears ok so far BUT my cdi strap broke and i guess the cdi slapped the fan housing or exhaust plate, idk... could o have "popped" the cdi???.. all was good, completely dead engine wit the flick of a switch???? i did get a new clutch and bell today tho. ;D 2 more new parts to add...
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Do they list it as a Super Fever? Maybe look for the parts for a Honda Dio, being the bigger name that might be what they list under. Just a thought.
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Zombie- That # M2711796 is for just the reed petals. Are you still running the stock reed cage with just the Delorto manifold?
Batman- What variator and clutch did you end up ordering?
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i cant remember if zombie said he is using a malossi cage or a yz 80 cage?? pretty sure its a malossi tho..... getting same var that sid found on ebay, coupled wit a reed cage i may be ok..lmao.... got a polini clutch and clutch bell.... check my new issue......please and thank you, gotta have her runnin....
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I think Zombie is using YZ80 reeds that he cut to fit, but not sure on which cage he is using. I'm near certain that that part # I posted for the VL9 cage is the right one! Sid had to grind a little on the case to get that variator to fit, I'm sure you know that already though. It'll be good to get some feedback on the Polini clutch, I don't know anyone that is running one. Good luck!
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G'day thebatman, sad to hear about you breakdown, hope you get up and running soon. I have had no hassle with my variator, yet, but like zombie says, if you want quality you gotta pay for it. I will try to put up a pic of the two vars. I am using a different computer now so I may have to download a resizer first.
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Hey, that looks familiar! Wait it's sitting right here on my desk! ;)
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..the variator on the right looks like it would be much heavier...
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I never gave that a thought, certainly runs good though. :)
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...that's ALL that matters...
;D
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Batman- Here's a link to the reed block you want. I'm certain it will fit!
http://www.malossistore.be/Prodotto.aspx?type=F&F=-1&C=27%207440.C0 (http://www.malossistore.be/Prodotto.aspx?type=F&F=-1&C=27%207440.C0)
(http://www.malossistore.be/img_prodotti/27%207440/27%207440_mstore_g.jpg)
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...wtf is that ???
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wouldn't a vee reed block be better?
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yeah i was thinking it would be ALOT heavier too but hey it works...lmao yeah ive read that thread a few times also...... now thats pretty......hell yeah, wasnt it like $70 or sumthin??? i heard a v reed wouldnt fit cuz of the hole...think zombie said sumthin...
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wouldn't a vee reed block be better?
It would, but Batman is running the stock intake manifold. That reed block is designed as a direct replacement of the stock one.
...wtf is that ???
That is a reed block Slinger. You don't have one! ;)
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... You don't have one!
...i wouldn't know what to do with it if i did...probably try to squish it...
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... You don't have one!
...i wouldn't know what to do with it if i did...probably try to squish it...
Lol!!!!
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my dam plug...why would my plug cuz motor to just up and completely die, no warning, no spit, sputter, NOTHING????...wth?? if running lean on de accel, ah sh**, i pay somebody to fine tune my oem carb!!!!! any takers???....
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i pay somebody to fine tune my oem carb!!!!! any takers???....
..me me me me me!!!..i'll do it!!!!
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...but seriously...dude, you gotta do chops...at several throttle positions...
..it's really easy once you've done it a cpl times...and it's amazing how your plug can can be one color at a particular throttle level..and completely different at another....then you change your jet or your idle mix and make it the same throughout...
..the plug don't lie....
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What happened? Is it running now?
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Was the plug all fouled up? Did you put a new one in and it started? I'd be happy to tune your carb for you, the only catch is you gotta get the scoot to Wilmington! ;)
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zombie, idk what happened, cruising down the rd fine, then a light switch killed scoot...coasted off rd.... FINALLY got her home, all appeares fine, even the plug was a deep rust ish color, dry, didnt look bad AT ALL!! after all else, put a new plug in and she finally started, kept smelling gas but it started, hope she starts again this a.m that plug has approx 2200kms...WHY SO SOON TO DIE OUT??..... DUUUUDE, SOUNDS EASY BUUUUUUT...LOL I WAS HOPING YOU HAD A STOCK SCOOT SUMWHERE AND I COULD JUST SEND THE CARB!! i mean she runs good i guess, but if its running lean on de accel???...idk chops sound hard to figure but i guess ive not done it before... maybe its easier since oem.. ill sent it to you.... :-\
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chops sound hard to figure but i guess ive not done it before...
..for instance, a WOT chop...get yourself in a safe place, where you won't get ran over...
..get your scoot good and warm, shut it off and pop in a new plug..
..now haul ass up th' street for a ways, making sure that you get up to speed...really wind it out..
..while you're at WOT, winding it out, hit the kill switch and keep your throttle in the Wide Open position until you brake to a stop...
..release the throttle, pull your plug and see what it's telling you...
..see, simple!!
;D
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hmmm...ok then, i can handle that part...lmao...any adjustmemts,idk...lmao, imagine that.. finding a good place around here tho, pretty hilly....
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What makes you think you're lean on de-accel? If it is you need to increase the size of the pilot jet. You can also do a 1/4 throttle plug chop to test the pilot jet. 2,200 kms is a lot on a spark plug. I change mine about every 1,000 it seems. Even if I did have a scoot I could put your carb on I would end up with a different "tune" than your scoot will most likely need. The engine itself, weather, elevation all play a part in the tuning of the carb. That is why there is not a set rule on carb set-up per level of engine tune. All you can do is listen to what your spark plugs are telling you!
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All mine ever says is "feed me". You may have a short in the lighting circuit. That could pull the voltage down enough to miss fire the stator. Maybe the plug was just worn tho. If your idle circuit is too lean you will see 2 things, 1 is the scoot will make NO running sound when you are cruising, and shut the throttle. 2 is the idle will rev high for a few seconds (10-20 sec.) before returning to normal. you should be able to fix that by adjusting the air mix screw. Do the standard adjustment, and give it an extra 1/2-3/4 turn counter clockwise. Then bring the idle speed back up using the slide adjustment screw. Also check the 2 green wires,, where you did the de-restrict. If they are not soldered, then do so, or at least use a BUTT Con. to secure the joint. you can loose output from the cdi if that joint gets funky.
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good evening...tis i yet again...pleased to be able to update sum and answer shaka.. z said it may b lean on de accel, only reason i even know?? i did 2 "plug chops", 1 at wot, 1 at 1/4 throttle... the plug from wot (besides being FREAKIN HOT!)..lmao the curved piece(electrode?) on the plug was WHITE ish, otherwise virtually brand new looking, only the curved piece was colored AT ALL. no nothing.... plug from 1/4 was(looking down from bottom) blackened sum,(that flat portion of curved electrode lookin down is blackened sum) SIDE VIEW of it shows the curved pieced to be white ish still, just duller shade.. yes my cdi is soldered together, i did clean it tho an rewrap, started BASICALLY right up each time.. whew, did i do right???...lmao...
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...white is LEAN!!!
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The wot chop is saying lean. Go up 1 jet size on the Main jet. (if you have an 82 go to an 84) the engine will run hot, and can shut itself down if it gets too hot. You should also get yourself a compression gauge to check that the rings are still working. A local shop should do it for a few $'s. you want to see 100 psi or better on the gauge
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..what should my pressure be, i wonder...i've never checked...
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i guess the oem main jet is 80... DONT EVEN KNOW HOW TO TELL A SIZE(manual said 80)....i knew it would come up.....NEVER, NEVER ,NEVER HAVE I GOTTEN 100lbs...i have a gauge...even borrowed one, never 100... manual says 11.5kg/cm2.... dont know how to convert but. ive never gotten 100 or more... 2shops, me, never.. i gotta argue there
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...google "metric conversion"....
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...an 80 jet (.080mm) is mighty lean...my stock A50 was an 80 jet...
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You should definitley have 100 psi minimum to run! Have you checked it with the engine warm? On the plug chops you really need to look down in the end for the "mix" ring around the center electrode. It's almost all the way down and sometimes hard to see! The white on the electrode may indicate a lean condition, or just too hot a plug if the mix ring is right. I just pulled the main jet out of my stock carb and it is a 90 by the way.
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It's almost all the way down and sometimes hard to see!
..i use a magnifying glass and a penlight...
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ok, i try that......i am running the factory 14mm wit stock jug, head to... (2DIFFERENT SHOPS TOLD ME TODAY, NO REASON TO, WASTE OF TIME, POINTLESS... told you cant really tune oem carb to make ANY sort of change)
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...that's not true...
..i tuned my stock carb to run my A50 over 50mph...
...downhill...lol...
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I'm sitting here with my stock carb opened up now after checking the main jet. It appears that the pilot jet is not replaceable?! I guess it is tune-able to a point.
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ok, just looked at plugs.. are you talking about a ring shape thats IN BETWEEN ceramic portion and steel "case"/"body"?? looking straight down into plug!... if so, then the wot plug was a tan ish color........ the 1/4 plug was black...
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My stock carb had an 85 jet, but had already been played around with before me. I was just next in line. :-)
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by pilot jet, you ARE reffering to the brass rod that runs alongside the main jet??? it is removeable, ivr done it... supposedly thats how i screwed up the other carb.. there are 4 cross drilled holes (2 & 2 )in the head of it that sinks into carb..
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Yes, that is what I was referring to as the pilot jet. It's the closest thing I see to a pilot jet! It is pressed in, doesn't look like it's designed to be removed. However, I'm sure you could get it out if you wanted too! Getting it back in may be a different story!
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...got me a big hammer...mhhmmm...
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ill just be dam.. shaka i bow to you, ur right, i still had the main jet (shop kept rest) from the ORIGINAL carb when she was real punny, (you all have helped tremendisly), and it is a 90 jet..i took a presision handheld drill bit kit and reemed the hole out, seemed to be same size at time but was told bigger and sh**, these bits dont have the sizs, guess to small....lmao
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The conversion shows 163.5 PSI. so you were good when that 11.5 reading was taken. I would strongly suggest going up 1 jet size from whatever is in there now. There are tiny #'s stamped into the jet. If yours dosen't have them, you can bring it to your local guy to have him measure it for you. A little xtra fuel is better than too little
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...im finding that a lil extra fuel on the main can work out to be beneficial through mid throttle, in relation to power available...
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It's easy to tune it back out using the needle. Getting the wot is the most important bit too me
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...i couldn't do that with my original carb...needle wasn't adjustable....
..and that vid you posted the other day helped me see that...
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ok, just looked at plugs.. are you talking about a ring shape thats IN BETWEEN ceramic portion and steel "case"/"body"?? looking straight down into plug!... if so, then the wot plug was a tan ish color........ the 1/4 plug was black...
ill just be dam.. shaka i bow to you, ur right, i still had the main jet (shop kept rest) from the ORIGINAL carb when she was real punny, (you all have helped tremendisly), and it is a 90 jet..i took a presision handheld drill bit kit and reemed the hole out, seemed to be same size at time but was told bigger and sh**, these bits dont have the sizs, guess to small....lmao
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:o :o :o :o ....zombie, your kidding right, whered you go to convert?? dude, ive never even heard that from ANYWHERE.. was told once 120 for compression... mine dont have NOWHERE NEAR THAT but will start on first kick, runs good, (besides you all saying its lean )...
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...google "metric conversion"....
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ok, just looked at plugs.. are you talking about a ring shape thats IN BETWEEN ceramic portion and steel "case"/"body"?? looking straight down into plug!... if so, then the wot plug was a tan ish color........ the 1/4 plug was black...
Yes, but it will be up on the ceramic a few mm from the very base. You should see a distinctive ring about 2mm wide. It should stand out against the white porcelain of a new plug.
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The conversion shows 163.5 PSI. so you were good when that 11.5 reading was taken. I would strongly suggest going up 1 jet size from whatever is in there now. There are tiny #'s stamped into the jet. If yours doesn't have them, you can bring it to your local guy to have him measure it for you. A little xtra fuel is better than too little
He was saying the manual states the good compression number at 11.5, not that he had 11.5. I think the manual may be wrong with that anyways because I've never seen an engine with 165 psi of compression. I just know anything below 100 psi and it won't usually want to combust the fuel. 120 psi seems to be a good health engine.
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http://joshmadison.com/software/convert-for-windows/ (http://joshmadison.com/software/convert-for-windows/) Free, and TINY
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That looks useful! I'll check that out later.
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I wouldn't last a second here w/ all these foreigners talking all that mmmm ccctm jibberish w/ out that program. Just kidding guys, I like some foreigners... Just not that one guy!
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ok then...can anybody tell me why i have NEVER had more than 75psi from ANY tester?????? even last night, 75psi , will start first kick today.. runs good....top speed hit 52!!! avg 46-48....how then? you just killed everything i been going by....lmao.....NEVER more than 75psi
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... Just not that one guy!
..mm..ain't from around here izzhe....
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Idk! Your tester may be suspect, possible head gasket leak?
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mine came from harbor freight just like yours....the other was a nice one...lmao chinesse scoots suck, BUT we go to harbor freight and buy chinesse....RLMFAO.... a shop even done this last set, i did first ones...lol... hell, needing that much compression, 75 wouldnt even start it, would it, much less good?????
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Not from 'round here. I'm ok with feet and inches (cant walk without em) but when you get down to thou. I'm cactus.
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That guy moved, 75 is way low. 120 is the number for a new set up. if you turn your engine by hand it should not lose compression thru the stroke. if I turn mine it gets harder as the piston gets higher. check yours
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hey shaka, i think i found it... i looked again, the wot plug ring was a beige ish color the 1/4 was a darker charcoal ish color
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mm are easier to convert for our stuff.
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mine came from harbor freight just like yours....the other was a nice one...lmao chinesse scoots suck, BUT we go to harbor freight and buy chinesse....RLMFAO.... a shop even done this last set, i did first ones...lol... hell, needing that much compression, 75 wouldnt even start it, would it, much less good?????
Might be suspect! Haha, I know I have a lot of harbor freight tools, but I don't expect much from them to begin with. That way they usually exceed my expectation. Seriously though, If you had multiple tests done with different gauges I guess 75 psi it is then. Just seems too low to run well! I would try a leak-down test just to make sure. You can make a leak-down tester for less than $20.
Beige is not a bad color for the mix ring. You still probably want to go a little richer though just to be safe. You want a nice brown color!
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i checked...yes it gets harder, both by turning fan and rotating kick...idk...never been that high
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If it's good it's good!
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If it's good it's good!
Very true! Still seems fishy to me though! Ring end gap? ???
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is that where zombie says to set it standard (1-1/4)and turn out 1/4-1/2?? care to crash course......again, i am sure its in a thread sumwhere..
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i just thought of a real good, dumb ?..... how in the world do you mess with the 2 screws to find wot AND THEN turn right around and mess WITH THE SAME 2 SCREWS to fix the 1/4 and get it in sync with wot????? seems it throw the other off??.... rode motorcycles, dirt bikes, but never did much work on them, can you tell?? RLMFAO..... like workin on cars....guess i better not even ask about this "indexing" the plug i saw......
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The ring end gap is the gap between the ends of the piston rings. If they are too wide you will loose compression, as they let too much air squeeze past.
The 2 screws on the carb only effect the idle circuit. They have no effect on WOT. Once you set them for idle, you leave them alone. The main jet is the only adjustment you really have on the stock carb that will change anything above about 1/2 throttle. That is one of the benefits of an aftermarket carb is they are much more tuneable!
Indexing the spark is real easy! You just make a mark on the insulator in line with the open side of the electrode. This way you can tell which way the spark plug is opening when it's installed. You want to align the open side of the spark plug with the exhaust port. Don't over-tighten the plug trying to get it lined up though. That is why you may need some thin washers to get it to line up right. Some plugs index with no washers. You have a little "wiggle" room with the torque to get it where you want it, but don't excessively tighten it down trying to get it lined up!
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i thought one was idle, the other the air/feul mix... glad i just kept staring at it last night.. thought/ hey, the air mix screw controls the oil inlet right?? is there even a benefit to indexing????
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All mine ever says is "feed me". You may have a short in the lighting circuit. That could pull the voltage down enough to miss fire the stator. Maybe the plug was just worn tho. If your idle circuit is too lean you will see 2 things, 1 is the scoot will make NO running sound when you are cruising, and shut the throttle. 2 is the idle will rev high for a few seconds (10-20 sec.) before returning to normal. you should be able to fix that by adjusting the air mix screw. Do the standard adjustment, and give it an extra 1/2-3/4 turn counter clockwise. Then bring the idle speed back up using the slide adjustment screw. Also check the 2 green wires,, where you did the de-restrict. If they are not soldered, then do so, or at least use a BUTT Con. to secure the joint. you can loose output from the cdi if that joint gets funky.
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Very true! Still seems fishy to me though! Ring end gap? ???
thought about this again, got up warmed her up and checked compression again.... i do stand corrected TO A POINT.... made a tight connection and i did get 95psi but not anywhere near this 120+psi......
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i thought one was idle, the other the air/feul mix... glad i just kept staring at it last night.. thought/ hey, the air mix screw controls the oil inlet right?? is there even a benefit to indexing????
The air mix screw only effects the mix at idle. Once you begin to open the throttle the slide controls the mix from there on out. There are no adjustments to be had effecting the oil.
There is a benefit to indexing the spark plug, but it's not going to be very noticeable in an un-modified engine. It directs the flame front towards the exhaust port which can help prevent detonation as well as slightly increase efficiency! It is more noticeable in a larger displacement cylinder, or a cylinder where the bore is wider than the stroke. In a cylinder like that the distance from the spark plug to the exhaust port is greater. It is the same idea as the off-set spark plug in the head. Notice they are always aimed at the exhaust port.
95 psi doesn't sound as bad as 75 psi! I think it is still a little low, but in the "it will run" range. Might not be the "healthiest" of engines though. Is it a new cylinder? I can't remember what/if you did anything to the engine.
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what up shaka?.... ok this may b a touch long, sorry.. well this a.m after the (4 sake of argument retest)..i did index the plug and i did turn the mix screw counter 1/4 turns.. i rode about 70miles today and I WOULD SWEAR it was different, carb actually sputtered couple times, i used sum oil too, bout 3-4oz today!! gotta be to much..and i think it was a bit slower and top end was "flatter"...... i have A jet from previous carb. i "cleaned" this jet supposedly to big, i thought it was gonna be same size but guess not?? idk, it was clean tho..lmao.. i tried to use same size to clean buuuut.. how do i know if it is to big?? figured id throw it in.. y is spacer hole bigger than intake & carb hole??.. guess i have to do another set of chops?? what will it look like if sh**?? i have only redone stock with new piston, rings, gaskets, cleaned cyl walls, different oem carb, technigas exhaust on the engine....(springs, rollers,tires,as of today: getting sids var, all new springs & rollers, want reed cage)
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If you're still running the stock engine and the only mod you have changed is the exhaust. Your main jet shouldn't need to be much bigger. If you run a K&N filter you will have to up-jet for sure. I'd think if the stock main jet size is 90, you may only need to go with a 92-94 with just the exhaust. With the filter also, maybe as big as 94-96, just a guess though. The cvt tuning is where most of your improvements will be had beyond the intake and exhaust. You won't need to re-adjust the carb for any changes made to the cvt.
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thanks for answering, well i put the jet in just now, it is a "cockhair" bigger.. i put a sewing needle in it and the eye caught the hole in jet for the oem one, for the one thats bigger, the needle went thru.. so i have no clue what size it is, only one i had to even try at the moment, hadnt cranked it yet... why the plastic "spacer" in between the intake, carb?
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Those jets are stamped with the size around the edge. You have to remove it to see it. Mine had the little Keihin star and then the #
That spacer/gasket is there to possibly help seal, or to add length before the sharp bend in the manifold. Not really sure looking at it! The hole in mine is exactly the same size as the manifold hole and slightly bigger than the carb outlet. It doesn't restrict the flow in any way. The sharp bend in the manifold and the tiny reed block are much more restrictive! You can try without the spacer, but it probably won't help anything!
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no, i seen that..member this is a 90 but i had cleaned the hole out to big supposedly on my last carb,(b 4 pipe, etc..) i was using it, it was a 90 till i removed debris...lmao, i thought it was same size i guess...
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That's right! You can try it. If it is too big you need to get some small drill bits or torch tip cleaners to open it up. That way you'll know what size it is!
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It is very minute! Do you have some digital calipers you can measure your bits with? I'll pull that 90 jet back out and measure it for you if that helps. I just checked my Arreche jets out of curiosity and as I suspected the numbers don't correlate to the hole size. I think those are one of the jets that are sized by flow and not hole size.
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Just checked the Keihin is based off of hole size. My 0.90mm bit fits real snuggly in the 90 jet.
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It is tight, but I could squeeze it in there. When I measure the bit it is 0.88mm which is 0.035".
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i found that bit also, this jet i have in front of me, the one i took oit earlier.. i cant even get it in the hole... i used a sewing needle too, the needle eye caught this jet and stopped, the other it went thru fine, hair to spare
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well today i was gonna test that other jet, sounded good on center stand, took off, i could tell already, slower, not the revs as before, boggish, turned around put oem back in....i got sceeeeered, idk what to do soooooo.... runs better since i changed back...lmao
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That plastic spacer is an insulator.
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That plastic spacer is an insulator.
Insulator for what, vibration?
well today i was gonna test that other jet, sounded good on center stand, took off, i could tell already, slower, not the revs as before, boggish, turned around put oem back in....i got sceeeeered, idk what to do soooooo.... runs better since i changed back...lmao
Do a plug chop just to make sure you're in the "safe" range. Keep in mind you are running the stock cylinder, so you're not going to get a SCREAMING fast scoot no matter what! All you can do is tune the carb properly which will get the acceleration up a little and help the cvt perform at it's best. Then the cvt tuning will really help improve your acceleration. You can only get but so much out of the stock engine!
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Insulate from heat I do believe
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Insulate from heat I do believe
I know my intake manifold gets SUPER cold! It has iced up in the winter! That doesn't make much sense to me. I could see for vibrations, but not temp. IDK what that part is really for? ???
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she was slower, boggish, no rpm... 3/4mi, turned around, no point in a chop didnt figure.....wasnt better,,,,was worse
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That was with the bigger of the two jets, right? You put the smaller one back in now? You already did a plug chop with the smaller one and it was slightly lean? You can try soldering the larger jet back closed and re-drilling it smaller. Keep in mind it will run the best with a slightly lean condition!
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The jet in my stock carb was an 85, when I took it out to 1mm it was too much. with the stock cyl. the slighest increase in size will make a big difference, especially with the air box and 14mm carb. Try going up in a smaller step.
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hey shaka...sid.. yes, it was the bigger jet, worse, yes i put regular one back in...oh hell, idk bout soldering the jet, sh** i can barely understand sum of this anyway...lmao R THE COBRAS ANY GOOD??? LOOKED OK, LOOKED ALL STOCK WIT 34,000km FOUND ONE PRETTY CHEAP,
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Keep in mind it will run the best with a slightly lean condition!
..FINALLY!!...SOMEBODY ELSE SAID IT!!!!
;D
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evidently so, even richened my mix screw, she spit, sputtered..went back to normal, i guess i take my chances, runs better this way...which even confuses me more................ what bout cobras?? good kymco? buildable???
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shaka, you were right wit part numbers....got a few things ordered from malossi BUT he said he dont have any white contras, they dont stock them...W.T.F?? i seen them, do i need to ask for a certain kymco model??? got a yellow coming, told him 2t, cobra should work..watch that b wrong....no zx listing at all, sooooo..... should b here next wed
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Do a plug chop if you haven't already with the jet you're running now. My guess is that with only the exhaust you should be pretty close. I know on my Vento I put a Technigas pipe on it and it runs fine with the stock jet. Honestly I haven't done a plug chop with it though! I haven't gotten that far into tuning it yet. I was just happy that it runs! I'm not sure about the Cobras, I've never seen one. 34,000 kms is a lot though! I bet the engine is pretty tired, all depends on the maintenance really though! I'm pretty sure the contra for the Cobra will fit your ZX50. What is the part # for the yellow spring you ordered? Is it 297042.YO? I think Zombie is running a yellow contra in his. It's confusing because the yellow is in a different category in their catalog. It lists Kymco, but no models. The other category lists Kymco as well as the models and now yellow spring in that group. Here is a link to the white spring: http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/malossi-torque-driver-spring-white-kymco.html. (http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/malossi-torque-driver-spring-white-kymco.html.) I'm curious how the yellow spring compares to the green spring that I am thinking about ordering? Here's the green one: http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/malossi-torque-driver-spring-racing-green-60.html. (http://www.provoscooter.com/scooters/malossi-torque-driver-spring-racing-green-60.html.) It is supposed to be the next stiffest from the white. Where did you order your Malossi stuff from?
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what up? i did the chop with the original jet....tan color on the ring, didnt do one with other jet, run worse sooo, i didnt, just changed back. did gave the stock air box on to if that matters... indexed plug and im wondering if i didnt lose power fron it, idk......i ordered from malossiusaonline, called this a.m......i wanna try both white and yellow..r u saying green is in between those 2??....said he couldnt fill it till fri then ship to me.
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You should be fine with a tan plug! You won't loose any power from indexing the plug, it can only help! Malossiusaonline has the best prices I've seen, however I've never ordered anything from them. I'm not sure where the green spring falls in the line as the yellow is in a different category. I think it may be a little softer than the yellow.
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well thats the ring you spoke of..the other day, u said it wasnt... never seen one huh....lmao...well then....
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That ring is the "mix" ring. That is really what you want to be looking at. It's real hard to see though! Get out a flash light and look for a ring around the center electrode porcelain a couple mm's from the deepest part. The ring is about 2mm wide. Like I said it's hard to see! They call them plug chops because to see that ring well you have to "chop" the spark plug in half! That ring is the true indication of your mix. On the end of the electrode there are other variable involved with the color, like the plug temp and the gap. If the end of the plug looks good and you are using the correct temp plug with the proper gap you should be fine!
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i saw that part, thats how i told u the color..............where is the link to the porting, etc,??????? i saw it but cant find it again, i wanna read that just for gp.....
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oh yeah, got a white spring ordered today, finally...thanks, i had forgot to even look there...!! i should get to play around in bout a week...lol redoing cvt will be easier....lmao
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http://edj.net/2stroke/jennings/ (http://edj.net/2stroke/jennings/) I think that is the link you asked about. Here's a little info on the Cobra....http://www.motorcycle.com/specs/kymco/scooter/2004/cobra/cross.html... (http://www.motorcycle.com/specs/kymco/scooter/2004/cobra/cross.html...) The Malossi Delta is the only one I know that uses the Yellow spring. I don't think it will fit the stock Kymco clutch as it is slightly larger in diameter than the oem/standard Malossi fly clutch spring. The "F'ed" up bit is even Mal USA can't give an answer on that. I order the yellow contra for the Air Cooled Super9 Delta clutch. Twice I have ordered it, and it comes w/ NO part#. The package/invoice BOTH say "Delta Spring"
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what up?? got a ?.. is there an easier way to remove fly springs?? cuttin them is easy but i may need em again
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If you figure one out let me know! ;)
I use a pair of needle nose vise grips, still a huge PITA!
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If you figure one out let me know! ;)
I use a pair of needle nose vise grips, still a huge PITA!
..same here...same pain too...
..i did have to cut the yellow +100 Leos to remove them...
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well... guess that answers that one..i have a air saw, gotten from good ol harbor freight........hey uh slinger, i think your pic looks familiar....hmmm?????....lmao.
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hey uh slinger, i think your pic looks familiar....hmmm
..yeah, that's my fwend's...z....he's a hippie....
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hey uh slinger, i think your pic looks familiar....hmmm
..yeah, that's my fwend's...z....he's a hippie....
You just wish you had one too! ;)
As for the springs, I've never been hard up enough to think about cutting them off! I just wrap a rag around the clutch, clamp it in a vise and get some good needle nose vise-grips clamped about as hard as I can on the end. I keep a small flat screwdriver near by to help pry the hook up if it's caught too.
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As for the springs, I've never been hard up enough to think about cutting them off
...i got tired of f*kin' with those yellow ones...
..they sucked in my scoot anyway...lol...
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Would someone please throw me a Bongo! It's Darrk in Here...
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what up? ok, i am still waiting on a few things, put in a new clutch and white malossi spring..put in a more progressive ramp plate untill i get my var...now, should i delete this post and start over now since my scoot is better than before...i want to try and get ur help on tuning my oem carb right...or should i just go with part 2(new thread)...i want to tune carb, maybe get in depth with tuner handbook (printed it too.) so, what route?? OH YEAH, am i the only person that STILL has that plastic back "fender"????? every zx i seen has it cut off up to the inner part....
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...well, don't delete the post!!!
???
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I still have my back fender! I want to shorten it up to above the reflector though. I need it to keep the spray down as I don't have the inner fender after putting the larger tires on. ;)
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what up? ok, i am still waiting on a few things, put in a new clutch and white malossi spring..put in a more progressive ramp plate untill i get my var...now, should i delete this post and start over now since my scoot is better than before...i want to try and get ur help on tuning my oem carb right...or should i just go with part 2(new thread)...i want to tune carb, maybe get in depth with tuner handbook (printed it too.) so, what route?? OH YEAH, am i the only person that STILL has that plastic back "fender"????? every zx i seen has it cut off up to the inner part....
How is it running w/ the new parts? I think a new thread for the carb would be a good idea, as it may get lost in here, and I too have cut the fender leaving just enough for the Lisc. plate. Thought about cutting it flush but the plate would be there anyway.
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what up? yeah, im starting to dislike that rear fender...lol. shaka, i still have my inner fender with the tires, didnt have to lose it, still fits.. zombie, do you have to run a tag in fla.? wth?.. i was thinking of cutting mine flush, was lookin at utube, all were gone, does look better w/o it i think.. as far as scoot, im sortof stuck till rest of stuff gets here.. it is better.. got my rpms back for take off wit white spring..new clutch has 2000? i think.. seems to rev TO high at take off with that.thinkin 7.5 may tame it down a bit...better grip than oem for sure sadly, im having to use the 7 rollers, want my 7.5.lmao....gonna try to mix match rollers to try sumthin till then..its been a week, over a week, still nothin in mail..wth? tried callin today, no answer.. that dude in parts is trying to charge me $15 more for the cage than the web site price..waitin there too...guess i better order a few jets for oem carb.. maybe i could get a bit out of it!! im thinking the ramp is ok
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...i've seen some kits that have....3 rollers...in like, three or four different weights...
..now, does that really work??
???
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i have heard that the 3 roller set up sux...lmao think sumone around here said similar.. i have even seen a 9 roller deal(no clue what scoot that was)....wonder if that would work to your advantage?? hell, im overwhelmed to this point with what ive got!! lmao..
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..>>>!!!DON'T RUN JUST 3 ROLLERS!!!<<<...
..i tried thay happy crappy, and it's what damaged my variator...
..i think the idea is mixing different weight sets of 6....
..seems like 3 of them would work harder than the other 3...
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oh no!! im not... i just been mixing the ones i have to see whats up.. hoping 7.5 is still the ticket you wouldnt think that if they are close in weight that 3 really wouldnt work harder than others...ie: (3-8.5, 3-7.5)..but idk.. waiting on sum new STILL!! lmao
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..all the ones i've seen were in .5 gr increments...
.. 4.0, 4.5, 5.0, 5.5....etc....
..maybe its not so bad, i dunno...hhmmm...
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right... .5 just testing, dam people slow.. the ramp came from hawaii... youd think malossi wouldve been here first..lol
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...aaaannd, do you put the heavier rollers in the leading or trailing slots??...
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The 9 roller set up sucks. It is too sensitive to changes. Mixing roller weights sucks tooooo as the heavy weights do all the work, and the lite ones float. Stay w/ s sucky set up until you get the weight dialed in.
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Stay w/ s sucky set up until you get the weight dialed in.
..that really does sucks...when you have to deal wit a sucky setup for a day or two....
...itsa labor of love, i reckon...
::)
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Better than wearing out new parts!
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...true..i did that...
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yeah. i took out the clutch till my rollers get here, IF EVER!!.. (left ramp plate, spring).. i put sum chrome end(both ends) hand grips on her yesterday too, looks way better... could any of this tech tuning be done on the stock jug to see that improvement??? maybe i could have just a bad ass stock scooter (PROBABLY ONLY ONE TOO): get tech stuff done, run a 17mm carb.. could be a bad ass stock class guys?!?!?!?!? lmao till the day i could go any bigger, if ever. see where z said 2-1/2hrs for the work.. could I do it?? lol (assume this is in the "handbook").. still trying to grasp the spacer discussions as well..
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yeah. i took out the clutch till my rollers get here, IF EVER!!.. (left ramp plate, spring).. i put sum chrome end(both ends) hand grips on her yesterday too, looks way better... could any of this tech tuning be done on the stock jug to see that improvement??? maybe i could have just a bad ass stock scooter (PROBABLY ONLY ONE TOO): get tech stuff done, run a 17mm carb.. could be a bad ass stock class guys?!?!?!?!? lmao till the day i could go any bigger, if ever. see where z said 2-1/2hrs for the work.. could I do it?? lol (assume this is in the "handbook").. still trying to grasp the spacer discussions as well..
...huh?...
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Dude You can fine tune the Ball$ out of your scoot. Slinger is reping the same results as most of the kits posting. Just keep on it, and you will be much more comfortable w/ changing bits at your own pace. There is NO one size fits all here. That's why the forum works.
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..it won't run there every day tho...
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slinger, i didnt mean to confuse you..lol the talk about head and cyl spacers for higher rpms, etc... porting, scaveging?!?!?!? see, i am not the only one saying huh??...lmao.... yeah, but i would say i cant get but so much out of a 14mm carb.. i have tools, not much cash...lmao bore it out and get my power from stock jug
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...14 mm carb...isnn't that kinda small??
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ahh, sometimes size does matter. Still trying to sort out my 24mm.... Carb that is. :)
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...24mm...you da man sid!!
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oh yeah, thats way small.. its a pissy lil thing... see, i could have a bad ass "stock scoot"(mild mod).. ported, scaveged, carb....hmm, could b nice idea
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doesn't matter how big your carb is if you don't tune it right, but hey, I'll get there, eventually. Must like frustration and punnishment. ;)
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...its true....fuel mix is the major concern....
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i was just thinking of tweakin engine (TRYING TO LEARN THAT PART)....ill still be slower than you all id say but id be a bit faster than now.....lmao gonna start a carb thread for my oem tho to tweek it sum
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...batman, if your prety much stock, the maybe one or two sizes above stock speck will do y'fine...reckon??
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maybe, had the one i tried but it bogged.(was a 90, but i opened it up, to ?)..BUT did have stock air box on too.. idk.. ill go start that other
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...itsa happy medium once you go to a filter...
...or at least, my scoot wasn't as sensitive until i put tht k&n on it...
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good evening.... tis i again... i found a k&n filter today but he wanted $30 for it... isnt that a bit much?? i didnt get it cuz of that. i swear i seen em cheaper on net sumwhere(15-20)... hey zombie, so what chapters in the "handbook" do i need to study to do any porting, etc. to get ME sum power?!?! you had said it took you about 2-1/2 hrs.?? maybe i could make it a 60cc...lol whats up wit the tag you run?? gotta have one in fla.?? imma cut the whole fender flush i think. cant decide if she looks better w/o the "rack" on the back or not
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...30 for a K&N isn't way off base....
..there are other free-flow filters that are less....
..google....
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porting only refers to opening the hples (ports) inside the cylinder. It does nothing to change the bore size. I don't have the book on my new system yet, but I would suggest reading some of the posts on scooter invasion. They take a lot of photos, and post alot of detail on porting all sorts of jugs. The 2 1/2 hours was to clean up any jaged edges/chamfer the ports so they can't catch a ring /and make the cyl base match the crank case. It is all easy work if you know what needs to be done. I don't think I added any real speed to the scoot, but may have added 1-2 Hp, and definitely made it more reliable. Most of sidthesloth's thread is about getting the ports to line up w/ the piston stroke. In Fl. you have to have a valid Dl., and register for six month spans. If you want to ride w/out a helmet you also need personal injury insurance. The Only difference is you don't need a Motorcycle endorsement for 49cc, and under. I also took off the rack, and found some Chrome caps at Ace Hardware that fit into the mounting holes in the plastics.
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but I would suggest reading some of the posts on scooter invasion
..i've been hangin' out there some lately....
..some of those guys can push them 2-strokes.....
..Josh has been really helpful to me in my O/Range variator concerns...
..imma get that kit...with some variations that i've already learned my scoot needs...
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yeah, but i had this filter in my hand, wouldnt had to order it, guess i should have grabbed it. well crap, again not the right answer there zombie! RLMAO!! cuz i guess after the cage, only a intake and/or carb(tune oem till i can get one tho) will be about it.(to stay w/stock jug, not a bbk)
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...ummm..you can tune your stock, and get ...decent ....performance outta it...
..it's not a guessing game but more trial and error...
..gotta play.....
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Your stock jug can work just fine w/ the rest of the mods. done. You could easily get 45-50mph in bed.
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well, i can play but i may need to know all the rules to go with any trial and error..lmao.. anybody gotten jets from jetsrus.com? well crap, this is why i started the carb thread
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...in bed...damn...
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...yes, jetsrus works in bed...
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well see zombie, id like to STAY at LEAST 50mph.. cant wait till a "good day" so i see if what gain so far..windy, rainy spots sux. cant wait till i get mail.NOTHIN TODAY EITHER. tried callin yesterday but no answer.. is that guy in parts at malossi reliable?
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Malossi usa on line? They are great w/ all my orders. I have heard they have jerked some others around, but so far they are my first choice for malossi parts. I ordered my belt yesterday, and wanted it next day. It was too late to get it done w/ the holiday so they are sending it next day on tues. for no extra shipping cost. ($45.00 for next day)
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yeah, i ordered it like last tues. but it was being sent out fri. still not here. the ramp plate came from hawaii...lmao
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You most likely won't see it till wend.-thurs.
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thats great. 2 weeks.... so what kind of tuning can i do to my motor... seen you all discuss spacers and such but hadnt really studied or understand the concept, etc.
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Look up the latest posts for today. Sid shows two port maps of the same jug. The first is w/ the jug installed as most are on the crank case. the second shows the same jug w/ a spacer under the jug to get the port heights correct. The line thru both maps is the piston at bottom dead center. Shaka need to adjust his jug in the same fashion.
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..it's more involved than just spacers and squish...
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yeah, i uh just looked at that from sid... yeah, im lost..no clue about those numbers or the map... guess the cage and jet carb/bigger carb will be the end.. hope ill get constant 50 from it
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..it'll be very hard to get a "constant" 50 from stock...
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i got a taste of 50+ with this scooter before.. surely i can beat the 45-48 avg. ( think the 1500 main helped that too)... (the 50+). dam, i keep gettin beat down on my brainfarts....
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Insert Quote
i got a taste of 50+ with this scooter before..
..tasted good didn it....
..i hear y' man....
;D
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Hey thebatman, those numbers on the port maps are the distance in mm from the top of the barrel to the top of the ports, I know, my scrawls are not too good, in fact, my wife calls them chicken scratches, but hey, that's life. You shouldn't need to adjust the height of your cylinder, it should be correct from the factory, I bought a cheapy off ebay so that was what I had to work with. With your cdi derestricted you will get 50 but she will be SCREAMING.
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but she will be SCREAMING
...like it when that happens.......
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If you really want to do some fine tuning to your stock engine you have to start reading through some posts on Scooter Invasion. I'd also recommend reading Gordon Jennings Two-Stroke Tuners Handbook and Bell's Two-Stroke Performance Tuning! There are links on this site to pdf files of the books. They are very good books and IMHO required reading if you're serious about 2T tuning!
All you may need to do on the stock engine is match the cylinder to the crankcase. You just have to grind the transfer tunnels to match so the flow is smooth from the bottom end all the way through into the combustion chamber. I know my crankcase was pretty poorly matched ever to the stock cylinder. My boost port tunnel was way off! There was also a slight mis-alignment between the two halves of the crankcase which I evened out. You shouldn't really have to do anything to the ports themselves though. It's pretty risky to port the inside of the cylinder also. One slip and bye bye cylinder! There is not much risk involved in matching things up and smoothing them out, other than getting metal shavings down inside the crankcase!
Ps. I got a new project! It's a 587cc 2T that goes in the water!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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..itsa stock engine he tuning...
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..itsa stock engine he tuning...
I know, the principles are the same no matter what engine you are tuning. I Jennings book, one of the first chapters talks about tuning a stock cylinder and first "bringing it up to factory spec" as there are always slight imperfections in the manufacturing process.
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...i need me a 2-stroke....
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hey shaka, sorry i missed you.... ok, sounds FAIRLY easy, but the "cyl tunnels"?? is that the "over hang" on the cyl that slides into case first?? match it??? what grind all overhang off??? im so close to 50+, damitt man!! i know you think im crazy saying i had reached 52mph wit this stock ass scoot... i do believe that 1500 helped, seems to have dropped a tad wit the 1000. i did print the jennings book, hadnt ever seen the other. was hoping that cage would get me there with other slight mods. well sid, how did you even GET the numbers?? those strange formulas on jennings book?? how you check, my calipers dont fit everywhere...
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Hey batman, don't grind off those guides. I know what you mean about the calipers don't fit, it would be so much easier if they did. When I read Jenning's book I didn't understand a lot of it, the maths will have me bamboozled every time, but it gave me a better understanding of how the engine works which helps with trying to improve the engine, when Shaka said about matching the cylinder to the case I think he meant grinding the crankcase to suit the cylinder so that the port tunnels line up and give a better flow.
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What Sid said, match up the port tunnels, you don't grind the cylinder skirt off! To get the measurements you have to make a port map. You do that by rolling up a piece of paper and putting it inside the cylinder. Then you make a transfer rubbing with a pencil to outline where the ports are. You then remove the paper and take the measurements off the paper. Here's a good starting point for learing about cylinder porting: http://scooterinvasion.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=708 (http://scooterinvasion.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=708)
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so does everybody use the ngk br8sha spark plug?? wit all getting indexed i used bosch in my car, why couldnt i use those, they are good plugs, or sumthin... bosch has the 4 way electrodes too, wouldnt that help on 2t?? burn more
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I currently am using the Champion equivalent BR9HSA plug just because that is what I got for plug chops when I bought all they had! I've just been running through those and then I am going to try the iridium. I think it is a BR9HIX? You will run the BR8 though in your stock motor. I had to go with a cooler plug with the aluminum cylinder. I'm not sure about fitting the plugs with multiple electrodes.
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i cant never get to the local shop for sum plugs but napa is down the rd.. seems like those splitfire type plugs would be ok... i have heard that word iridium... maybe they could match it
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well i tried going over to scooterinvasion....logged in, read sum stuff, went to post, KEEPS telling me to log in OVER AND OVER!! BUT at the bottom of page, im right there.... guess im getting MANY omens not to even touch scoot again, cuz since cage wont help, why bother getting one of those too????.. was hoping to get a laymans terms explanation on that... if i remember my jug, theres ONE HOLE: exhaust.. not the 6 hole drawings i saw
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You may not have had your account activated by the moderator yet, so you can log in, but not post yet. Your cylinder is the same as all the ones you see on there. It has an exhaust port, which is the biggest and leads directly out the side of the cylinder. The other intake ports are routed out the bottom through the transfer tunnels into the bottom end. You have to remove the jug to see the transfer tunnels, they lead out the bottom. The new reed cage may help a little, but won't make a dramatic improvement without changing the manifold and carb as well. If you want to keep the stock carb, it has got to be a slight improvement. I can't speak from experience on that one, as I changed my carb and ran it with the stock cage and manifold; then changed the cage and manifold after I realized how restrictive the stock ones are.
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yeah, id like a bigger carb but running stock jug, surely i couldnt go up much... figure about a 17mm??????? this gets real frustrating on my end..i love to see the work/any work being done so i can really learn how to do it myself
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well i tried going over to scooterinvasion....logged in, read sum stuff,
..takes a minute to get all their settings squared away...hang in there...
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cant never get to the local shop for sum plugs but napa is down the rd.. seems like those splitfire type plugs would be ok... i have heard that word iridium... maybe they could match it Who Lopvew ya daddy! You can go to 28mm on the carb w/ no trouble. How much do you want to spend. Fix the bits first,
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theres no way i can put a 28mm on a stock oem jug... thats like puttin a double pumper on a go cart????? oko carbs are reasonable, but i know...delorto, arreche... what bits?
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.....the bits ..you know......all those BITS!!
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What Have You Seen Here? Buy Any Kit You Want, and it will work out!Get the Mallosi
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...or the polini??
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remember..... i had gave up on the bbk for it... was going to upgrade all and leave it but then i wanted work done on oem jug to boost my ride buuuut...... so ill just try rejetting oem carb, even here said big carb wouldnt work/help cuz of oem jug( figured i could handle one screw but they werent right in looks)
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my high idle when cold isnt there.. she just idles while warming up, not the high cold idle. is my electronic ckoke dying on me?? i dont know the meters for checking, cant ever get those right either.
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Does it drop down at all after it is good and warm? It is really easy to check the auto choke with a multimeter. I want to say there should be 5 ohms between the two wires. It is in the service manual under the carb section.
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you misunderstood me... I DONT HAVE ANY HIGH IDLE AT ALL, WHATSOEVER
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That's what I understood. I didn't know if after it warms up, when it idles does it sound like it wants to die? Other thing to check is the mix screw may be too lean. It will raise the rpm's "falsely" when the auto choke shuts off. Lastly, put a multi-meter to your auto choke and test it as per procedure in the service manual.
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what up? no, she idles the same all the time, weather cold or hot still starts fine an easy but no cold idle.. oh steve called me yesterday, he found me a clutch, shipped out this a.m. THAT WAS AWESOME!! i left a lenghty email thanking them for going beyond call of service.. wooo hooo, another new clutch.. i am becoming clutch poor, lmao
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what up guys? not sure if you wanted to know. been playing with cvt some.. you will not believe this, i think alot of my rpm problem was in the spring sortof. the ncy springs are 1-11/2 coils longer than malossi springs BUT, the "torsion washer" was on the side of the clutch NOT the pulley side, changed that got rpms back. also got screwed on my new clutch and bell. supposed to be polini but the clutch is actually a adige an bell is polini(dont fit). so i have 7.5malossi rollers, a ramp plate(until var gets here)--malossi white contra w/1500malossi fly springs, adige clutch, gates performance drive belt, 130/70rr,120/70ft tires(kenda) technigas next r chrome exhaust, removed rear rack & center stand(less wieght), eruo lights, chrome handgrips. (want a malossi reed cage but not sure if a waste).. next plan is rejetting carb or bigger carb, reed cage. want to learn portin since gonna run stock jug/head to increase sumthin.i can tell i am a bit flat at wot(carb?)anybody lookin for polini bell & air 4 zuma/vento
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You got quite a bit going on there bat. Try posting the bell on Scoot. Invasion. They sell a lot of parts over there. Did you see your last post over there? I suggested going to DSL Reports to see if you have configuration problems w/ your tcp/ip. http://www.dslreports.com/ (http://www.dslreports.com/) It's my first site when I tune/reformat. Win soc xp fix is also a good tool if you have xp. Glad you caught the spring issue too. Thing sometimes work better when they are installed the way they were meant to be.
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hey zombie, i cant remember where the pic is but did you only use gasket maker to "glue" the tube(from oem box) to your air filter??? yeah sorry bout that, ive learned alot, can do it after i see it done...lol i do believe that the 1500 contra aided in my day of 52mph tops. cant seem to get it wit the 1000. now the speed is what shaka had then but seems to be stronger
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I used the stock air box tube to attach my K&N. After I installed my intake manifold I had to "rearrange" my intake. I used Gorilla Glue to glue it together. It worked great and is still holding strong!
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yeah, sounds good... i have gorilla glue and sum epoxy.. i did put gasket sealer around it to hold it w/a clamp.. a bit bigger than i wanted but itll work i hope...lol
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has anybody had the tip inside spark plug wire break off???? idk what happened,snapped a min ago,now not.. i just did a plug chop, now my wire isnt "snapping" onto the plug, seems way loose, did start thankfully
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If you are talking about the spring inside the cap, yes, mine broke, had to replace it with an NGK one, can't get the genuine parts here. Ten months for the carb insulator, I don't think I will bother trying for a spark plug cap. The local bike shop had a look but couldn't get one.
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what up sid? idk about a spring, but the inside of the spark plug wire/boot(l-shapedpiece).. im thinking why its so hard to start now and not the jetting/filter part... shop has one but it was a long ride and started raining so i turned around. dan sid, is the mail that screwed up around there to cause a 10 month wait on sumthin?? even if i order, i havent had to wait months, maybe a week or two..lmao(still waiting on sum fly springs from 2 wks ago)..
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The problem here is that no-one gives a s+@t and aren't bothered, if it isn't hundreds of dollars, then zero interest.
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The one on my 2002 kymco people 50 is a bit week,around here It's about $2.00 usd to get a sparkplug cap,screws right in just have to decide if you want a resistor or not may have to cut a 1/4 inch off existing lead wire,from napa auto sure you have an = there somewhere theres nothing special about the cap.Spark happens!Good luck
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Yeah, have replaced mine with NGK, just not the correct one.
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Ha!another thought.My sister bought one of those vietbog job vespa's from asia.The sparkplug was literaly screwed right in to the end of the coil wire,It worked fine till motor siezed!Long story short It's mine parts are on the way!
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Remins me of when I was a kid, no money, do what you could with what you had.
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There was literaly beer cans used for shims throughout the motor,driftpin put a beer can in it!Cant believe it ran at all,just long enouph to be called a running bike when delivered.Decent paint thats about it.
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I've seen the horror scenes from the Viet's.It always amazes me that most people see a good scoot in the paint, and not in what it is. Bat You can go to the local hardware, and get a boot for a lawn mower. It just unscrews from the wire. Cut off 1/2", and screw the new one on.
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There was literaly beer cans used for shims
..dang...that's direct recycling on so many levels...
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ok, quick ? for you. (imagine that huh?!?!?) anyway, i changed my cvt again and now she seems to take longer to return to normal idle. she did this before the cone filter swap, takes about 15-20sec to drop back.. why would my cvt change the return to idle????
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The cvt changes the pre-load on the engine. Taking time to drop is usually due to a lean idle setting. I posted in the other thread how to set it for the best idle mix. Your carb's. pilot jet may just be too lean for the pod filter. Try adjusting it the best you can, and save for a bigger carb. A 19mm will sort out alot of problems for you
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ta daa...guess what? im back. anyway, providing my carb is ok till i can afford one. (did you know the oko brand carbs are really a kiehin??, cheaper price too). well i do want to go to another project. i been trying to read up on squish plates from jennings handbook and here with sid. finding a shop to make me one may be fun.. but how do you know how thick to make it?? i was told today from a shop that does europeion mopeds(vintage style) that a squish would only get me 1 maybe 2mph. w.t.h?? no way, really?? but i could match case and cyl and get way more than that.. he showed me what i trim (on those anyway).. not really much to do, i dont think.. dont remember what THIS scoot looks like to match, been awhile since I took it apart. should that or the squish band be my next obstacle???
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OKO is a Keihin knock-off. The Keihins are generally better quality from what I hear, they are also 2X the price!
Your stock cylinder has a squish band by the way. It is not a huge noticeable machined ring, but it is there! You check the squish band by fishing some solder down the spark plug hole to the very edge and cranking the motor. The piston will squish the solder against the head. Pull the solder out and measure at the thinnest point to get your squish clearance. It should not be less that about 0.7mm, about 1.0mm - 0.9mm is ideal. You can change the squish clearance by changing the base gasket. That will raise or lower the cylinder. It may be worth checking, but it should be about right on a stock engine already. I think you will see more of a performance gain from matching the case and cylinder.
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That was one of the first things to do in one of those two cycle tuner books. Setting all the tolerances to spec. Basically "blueprinting" the engine. I can tell you for a fact that Blueprinting does as much for ANY engine as any other mod you can do. If you have access to a machine shop, and are VERY good at math/engineering, you can sometimes double the rpm's an engine can turn, and gain as much as 10% more HP, and torque. Us Buffalo eaters, would rather cut metal off until it is tighter, and tougher than it was from the start, but imagine if we had all the tools, and time to correctly build a 13'000 rpm 20hp 50cc based engine! Most 125cc engines cannot come close to those numbers. This is my very long way of saying the BATMAN has grown beyond all expectations!!! The squish is as good a place to start as any... Rock on Bro!
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i do remember a ring around the head but it definately wasnt any 50% covered. my understanding, the squish band is the diameter of the bore(cyl. wall) + 50% covering the piston itself, leaving a smaller hole. would i only get 1-2mph from this?? crap i could get upwards of 10mph from matching........ as far as the matching, i can still do this with the rod/piston, etc. in place(just cover all insides with rags, playdoh).. guess id need to grab some gaskets also before hand...... as any of you seen in book about simply cutting 20mm from the manifold side of the exhaust pipe??? (that would be an easy project,lmao) its supposed to work good too, according to handbook.....
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Hey bat thats what im working on for my next build with a machinest the first thing we did was set the squish,instant gain on stock barral,went from 85 main to a 105 and about + 4mph the next step is the exhaust port(supposed to be done today!)the delay has been he had to make a jig to get the angle set right (This guy is very precise).This is a bit over my head,whats this magic book you speak of?Sounds like there is some matching in my future ;D Good luck.I'll let you know how it turns out.
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het art... you are huh? cooooool!! yeah, i believe this is going to be MY issue, not having a spare scoot(almost had one but was sold before i got there).. id be ok if one of my ladies would stay for a few days, instead of a night...lmao.... you had to rejet, AGAIN??? OH HELL, HERE WE GO!!!! what scoot you building?? assume its not a zx... so what was your squish? did you measure like shaka spoke of or did they do it all??? its jennings' 2t tuner handbook. there is a link in this thread sumwhere...lmao.. what, he just opening the exhaust port to match pipe??
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I'm working on another peoples 50,this was on a stock jug don't panic yet!I had the machinest do it,but was there to watch same method.He took 40thousants off and said I could run without the head gasket.The exhaust on the other hand is where it gets over my head.something like setting the angle and opening to the piston to allow free flow to pipe,all i know is it = more air out ;D
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ok, heres an update.. went out to measure squish as per shakas way. if i measured correctly, MY squish right now is .050in./1.27mm. and if .035in./.90mm is ideal then i m thinking i need to reduce it .015in. to get this .90mm, correct?!?! and if its only .015in. , i know the base gasket is thicker than this....
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just had a brainfart...idk what thickness the base gasket is. providing it isnt usable, why couldnt i make a gasket out of rubber, which is like .033, but once i tighten her up again, squish SHOULD be at .90mm?????? see there, imma thinking!!! (watch out).. :-\ :o :-\ :-\ :o
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Don't use rubber for a base gasket, use paper. By adjusting the thickness of the base gasket you will be changing your squisg, compression, and also your port timing. Last week I took out 1 gasket which was 0.4mm. It has increased my compression but has also brought back that dreaded preignition which gives me more work to do.
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You can mill the .015 directly off the head. I shaved .5mm off mine, and it worked out great. I used a band saw table as a base, and ran the head over 600 grit emory paper. It took about 20 minutes of careful circles to get .5mm. Changing the base gasket will as sid pointed out change everything. If you really want to blueprint the engine make a port map to inspect the timings then you will know if there are any changes needed that will affect the squish.
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well zombie, im getting nervous again...you said myself?? table, 600 grit paper, circles?? how did you make sure you didnt actually "warp" it??. did you measure the whole head (bottom 2 top of fin) to get your measurements??.. i only have this one head also btw....so the idea i spoke of(w/50% actually being covered, a plate over piston)), isnt right then?? oh no, what do you mean change everything?? id have to start all over again?? is this where i WILL HAVE to know these formulas?? god i hope not... wonder if #s in the manual could be used( if i can figure the formula) i assume the matching, port map, math, etc. is gonna take a day or so
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Hey bat I took my head to the machinest and after b.s.ing with him for awhile he did the shave for free!I broke the motor down for him of coarse,but he quoted a price of $40 for the exhaust.I figured what the hell at those prices!He normaly charges $150 to $200 for port and polish,When i told him I could get a whole kit at that price he decided to work with me a bit to see what we could do since not to many are doing these mods on scooters at this time.He seen my interest and it peaked his too!Anyway he did the head shave in about 2 min.once he figured the squish.The exhaust is still not done yet :'(
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If your squish is 1.27mm then the easiest way to only change the squish is use a thinner head gasket. You will need to measure your head gasket then you will know what you are working with. I know that both my head and base gaskets for my Airsal kit are 0.5mm thick. I actually ended up making an aluminum base gasket that was 1.6 mm thick then removing my head gasket to get optimum squish while also raising my ports timings and duration. I read the part about the exhaust, but don't really want to go there.
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Bat has the stock head/jug, and the only gasket available is the stamped steel one. Like art said you can get someone to shave it for a few bucks or as I did use a known flat surface, and work it slowly on oiled Emory cloth. I measured from the squish band inside the head, as this part is machined, and true. the cooling fins are all off square. Even if you forget the rest of the porting/timming for now doing the squish will pay off w/ more pep, and quicker response
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Bat has the stock head/jug, and the only gasket available is the stamped steel one.
But you can always fabricate your own gaskets, I did! ;) The hardest part is finding the correct thickness material!
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Oddly enough for us scooter'ers Beer cans make excellent gaskets. Two of my nc/50 engines have them. The oem gasket is going for 24.00
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i dont even have a clue as to my head gasket.. it is alum??,idk, pretty thin i remember.. well i wws waiting on a call, trying to see if i can haveit done before i try it myself(squish band). i thought of this tho...is the .90mm squish gonna be ideal for all scoots, or for the bbks??????? id hate to take .015in. off and it mess me up.. this is one of my issues with my scoot, i cant afford much down time with her since i dont have a spare...oops..lmao. figure the squish band, then try to match cyl,. maybe i wouldnt have much down time.... oh yeah, since my cvt changed with carb adjustments, guess its gonna change again with squish and/or matching?????....
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Mine has changed so much i'm almost back to stock weights
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Mine has changed so much i'm almost back to stock weights
Me too! ;D
Batman, I think the stock head gasket is aluminum. At one point I trimmed the stock head gasket inner diameter bigger to use with my BBK. I just scored it with an exacto knife and used pliers to snap off the inner circle. Pretty sure it is aluminum. I also believe it is 0.5 mm thick. The paper base gasket should be about 0.5mm thick also. The squish clearance should be greater than 0.7 mm. I think a lot of it has to do with the head and combustion chamber volume. You should be good with about 0.8 - 1.0 mm though. You won't know for sure until you try. If you get detonation then you either need higher octane fuel, or a larger squish! I know on my SeaDoo the factory recommends between 1.3 mm - 1.7 mm, they actually make many different thickness base gaskets to achieve the proper squish! Man, I wish Kymco did that!
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Oddly enough for us scooter'ers Beer cans make excellent gaskets
..i got's gaskets for sale!!
..how many you want!!
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whaaaat up??? ..ok, i found a local guy that will shave my head pretty cheap(maybe$20),(he has a rod shop here,knows the boss). anyway, i havent tore anything apart, since i didnt have anything set up.... now shakas making me nervous again, detonation???.. what detonation??. now is the .90mm squish really ideal for a stock cyl, or is it another guessing game(if so, maybe i should play w/gaskets instead).... he did ask me first thing if i was gonna be able to still use pump gas!!! u told him i hope so, i will wont i??? i already use 93 w/ 1/2 oz of octane boost(half the time).. now should i shave head or play with gaskets???? cuz i cant put the metal back..lmao... ....
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You can always add gasket to head if needed.The the predetonation is more of a problem if you change the cylinder hight.If your guy is good he can calculate the squish on the spot for you at that price make him work Ha!While your there have him do the exhaust port too!Just got my people back with the squish and exhaust mods.Nice low and mid gains dont have the top dialed in yet(veriater)but I'm in the over 50 club!
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i was gonna take the head to him, do have gaskets on the way today also, and just shave the .015in. off..my measurement of squish revealed a 1.27mm/.050in. oem squish... what about the exhaust port??? how long does that take??..cant really have much down time right now, just match holes up???..easy/hard??...i wanna be in that club....lmao
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That squish # is based on a 50% squish band. It is a generic # but it will work just fine for you bat, as the kymco stock compression ratio is lower than it needs to be. They do this so even regular pump gas will not pre detonate. Once you do shave the head the only draw back is you can never use regular fuel. Either hi test, or as you already do add Octane boost to regular. Cutting the exhaust port can be quite easy on some engines. I have used diamond blade hole saws for cast iron, and regular saws for aluminum. Its basicly the same as most shops will do. Cut an angle to match the flow of the gases. I haven't done this jug, but I have an nc/50 (sold) that I did. Just a few minor tweaks, and it went from 25mph tops to 32mph.
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so i should be good then since i run hi test anyway???guess that means i need to call mike eback and ask about the exhaust port then huh...since he has a car shop, this should be way easy for him...lmao.. got a set of gaskets be here in about 30min...well sh**, guess its on now!!. guess this will suck cuz i guess i will have to break down again to match in afew days later...maybe i can still use same gaskets till then... there wasnt much for matching on a euro ped, cant remember inside mine, never paid attention either tho...lol
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If you let him cut the exhaust BE SURE he dosen't touch the port inside the jug. You just want to open the passage, and match it to the angle of the header.
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Ha I'm not a machinest,The mods my guy did were very minute but that was the hold up he had to make a jig to determine the angle,and for $40 bucks I like.(he may be too precise)I know it's a different motor but,here's where i'm at.Still running pump gas(reg)great low and mid.Now running a #115 main could go bigger(don't have)running 8g rollers.Lifted the needle as much as possible(used gasket material)I think I'm running into the limmits of my stock carb,could use bigger pilot,richer needle and 1 to 2 sizes bigger main,at the moment running a bit to lean throughout,but just under 54 mph.I need more gas!ha!Anyway I'm pretty impressed out of a stock jug and carb with pod and pipe.
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Hey art, sounds like you have got it all going on pretty good.
You have done it now zombie, I think I will have to buy that die grinder now after all and see what I can do with the ex port, as well as the piston.
Good luck batman, when you get good results it makes it all worth while.
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Ha! I got alot to learn,but I'm having a great time!My old dirt bikes only needed a couple jet changes to soot my needs,This is pushing my limmits and loveing it!
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..just wanna make mine roadworthy right now....
..smoke is scary...but ya'll all say it's to be expected....
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Yeah, I am learning lots. I bought a cheap cylinder from an ebay seller, cheap, not much good but with a hell of a lot of help from the people on this forum we have got it up and running pretty good.
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...smoke is scary...
..upgrading would be a frickin nightmare right now!!...
:o
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Go with the smoke, just hang a piece of fish behind ya.
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..i'm talking.."fumigating level" smoke....
..that seem ok?
..i haven'tseen a mosquito all evening...
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Don't be scared!Ride it!If theres a problem it will show.Smoke is common after sitting for some time.Hedge your bets with the basics and some seafoam ;D If the top goes you were going to kit it anyway Ha!They are tuff little motors.
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..yeah, imma listen to you guys...
..i'm a 4t transplant, and smoke has always been bad...
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Nah, once you get it all sorted out and bit of running with a decent oil she'll be ok. At least you know you have oil in there.
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..but it's like..coming out the exhaust...oil, i mean...
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Yeah, that sounds like you have too much going in, check your pump setting or disable it and run a premix until you get it worked out. I may also be the exhaust is gunked up.
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They tend to ooze when running ritch.Pipe probably needs a cleaning.I think riding it is your best option.See what happens If it gets worse pull the pipe check that exhaust port out.And the canister,or is that a stock pipe?
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...stock pipe...stock 2001 scoot...
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Well there ya go you need a rs2 Ha!Gots to gets the torch out for the stock,that is a good stocker pipe though breathes better than the newer ones.(when not full of oil) ;D
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..i just ran up to the store and back...
..wwwoww...cooler air made a difference...itsa good 10 degrees cooler than my earlier ride...
..didn't smoke NEARLY as much...
..i'm kinda kickin myself in the ass right now...
..i coulda gotten a ppl when i bought my A50 new...
..liked the body styling of the A better...
..had no idea the difference in stock performance....
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Like I said stumbled into my first one,Fell In love first ride,The competition is on for the first 100mph ppl!Ha!
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..yeah, it hit 75kmh indicated in about a eighth mile...
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Ha!Just wait till you get it dialed!
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yeah, i tried to call, no answer...maybe i can get it done tomorrow or next..if arts guy had to make a jig, idk if this guy has one or not.maybe he does..wanna see what shell be like with just that..maybe the club material..lmao.(crossing fingers)...lmao... congrats slinger on the ppl.. maybe ill have a spare one day too...lol
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..thanx batman...smoke scares me, but imma ride th scoot to work tomorro....
..wish me luck!!!
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Hey bat My guy was a bit too meticulous,Glad he's a pro,but shouldn,t be that hard I seen the work It was very minor But he was not familiur with the engine so he did the right thing.Now he knows and can do it without all the drama.(Don't tell him you don't need it right away) ;D
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well sh**, good luck homie, dont know how much smoke you got going on...mine smokes, but not a freight train...lmao.......well this guy here has a hot rod shop, so idk if he even oknows, id say so tho...have to make sure when also, so he dont keep it for days an days...lmao..id like it to be about an hr deal...hey art, you need to holla at slinger about your carbs...seen he asked in another thread about em...
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Hey, Slinger, don't worry about them guiltys at the lights,,, youll smoke em. lol. All the best with your maiden voyage.
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...yup..i'm smoking just about everything off the line!!!
..tops out at 45mph indicated...flat land..downhill..uphill...
..UPHILL!!!..doesn't drop speed like my guilty does...so that tells me it has power, just needs a bit of cvt tweakin'..
..coaxed it to about 47 down a very steep hill one time, and it didn't sound like it was very pleased with me doing so...
..so, imma look in the cvt...see what i've got goin' on in there..haven't even opened it yet...
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Thats bloody amazing if it doesnt drop speed uphill. With the stock cyl. in mine, at top speed she would sound like a whirr, just overdoing it.
Sounds like you are going to have a ball with this one.
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..i love it already...
..i've been trying to get just that outta my guilty all along....the uphill sustain....
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..oh, and it's stopped the freight train thin too...
..choo-choo no more baby!!
;D
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daaannng, i want something that doesnt have that uphill drag...lmao sounds like you may be on to something.. anyway, an update on my next ordeal:... i havent gotten my head done yet, thought was going to happen but says he has to finish other first, so i have to wait bout 10 days and hell do the head AND exhaust that eve. and i get back next a.m! sounds good to me,(that way I dont have to worry bout being correct,mike knows how..lmao)+(the price..whew).that way i wont have any down time either. need to change sumthin in cvt but thought bout waiting since i will have to do it all over again anyway..lmao.. maybe i can be in the over 50 club (consistantly)then..lmao(fingers crossed)..
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That should do and you'll get there quik too.deffinetly wait on you cvt,it will change now running 8g on the stock people.I know you don't want to hear this,but might have to go bigger on the jets too :o
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what up?? yeah, i sure hope there is a big difference from now, i hate i have to wait another week, buuuuuuut, what can you do?(feel safer waiting..lmao) oh crap, you had to mention those jets didnt you?!?!?..lmao if so maybe it wont be as bad this go around..lmao.(if i have the right size bit too)...
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You should be an expert on those jets by now.I'm running a #115 main and its too lean! Might be looking for some bits today myself.
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I'm closer to 150 on the main. It was a 144, and is opened to?
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Ya the stock carb is a pain but I'm determined to go as for as possible to keep this build on the cheap side.
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wow, somebody is alive around here...lmao...went riding this weekend, man i lost 3-4-5mph sunday..guess its all the humidity, heat...i keep thinking back when i first started and even went faster than i do now, lost total of 3-5mph after modding...crazy sh** there, now i know what shaka keep speaking of by only getting that 45-47...sh**!!!(ill get that back next week!! hooah!! (i guess/freaking hope)). lmao, i feel ya there art..cheap is good.. id like a bigger carb i think... it feels like my carb still has a bit inside somewhere, something does..lmao just have to wait till this time next week.!! ;D sqiush/exhaust.. dying to see the difference already!!!!!.....
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well its thurs now..i have planned the engine work for monday, so now im getting nervous bout it..lmao.. do want to recap i guess cuz it will be dead in here this weekend..lmao..so i want a .035in/.090mm squish?? ideal setting?? on the exhaust part, just the outside side of the exhaust and not near inside towards piston, correct?.... still havent found a bit inbetween my sizes for a future rejettin..lmao kindof hope i do have to, may get more out..lmao... hey art, i found your thread,lmao..big ass site aroung here...lmao hows your new project working?? i was told about a built ppl 50 the other day for 800$ but i dont have it. :'( :'( :'( ::) ::)
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You got the right #'s bat, Just pay attention to the jetting.
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ok then thanks zombie.....how much should be taken off the exhaust port tho??? gonna be nervous about jetting if i cant find an in between bit(my next bit is 2 sizes up)(goes from like 914 to 965)...... i believe it should yield about a 5mph gain tho correct?!?!?!?
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Yeah tah is what you should expect... In opening the exhaust you only need to match the I.D. of your pipe. Most jugs are smaller than the pipe header, so you want to match the size to get a smooth flow out of the jug. No science there, Just use the exhaust gasket to get the size, and machine it all smooth, and round.
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good morning zombie, thanks for answering... well today is my day...woo hoooo... now since i kept thinking about it, i wish i had a dremel..i SHOULD match the case while its tore apart for squish....DUUUUUH!!!!!..oh well, at least i can inspect things.....gotta go to parts house and pick up more chop plugs($2.19 at napa, 4.00 at scoot shop, crazy sh** there)(if they open today, everythings closed..know mike will work today for me! i cant wait man!!!!.. oh yeah, whats the projected life of a set of rings??? mine only have about 4600km...
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well crap.... nothing was done today, i was put off till wed. oh well... im thinking of going ahead and matching while its all apart, is there anything else i should know about on the matching end??? also wondering if i should start another thread on this oem build, dont tink there is one on a zx oem. should i do this?? with pics too...lmao(if i can get a new puter by then to upload them) also has anybody ever experianced a "wa-wa-wa" sound out of the pipe at lower rpms(fast an slow wa wa)?? im thinking just to atribute it to needing to update cvt from recent carb work...... thanks for the replys......
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I'm iin california for a few more days,Still stuck on my stock build jets showed up day I left,and I brought my hot rod with and no parts!Did'nt account for the 30dagrees shift in weather and no real scooter shops in town,gps to 60 tops then running out of gas,still haveing a ball at 3/4 throttle!I'll have some picks and info when I get back home.Had to steal my niece's lap top to get this out ;D See how those machinest are ::)
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im starting to want a ppl art....lol.. i just hope i could even be IN the ballpark after this work AND matching.. hope today is my day. going to call here in a bit to see!! of course it does seem the ppl is alot faster than a zx,(for now..ROFLMAO).... dude, you lucky ass, i know a couple of hotties in cali... wish i was there!!!.....
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afternoon folks...well, I FINALLY recieved my fly springs... they are the sport set, #298746. these look udifferent than my others...the hook dont seem as long...look smaller all around... are you all SURE these fit the zx??????? i have an adige and motorio clutch.....they sent the wrong filter before so i just want to make sure about the springs before i opened them
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I got a 2005 with less than 800 miles I'll let go for $1000 in perfect shape(no delivery)
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..my 2001 ppl will do more than what's on the speedometer (60) with nothing but a free-flow filter and a 96 jet...
..i haven't gps'd it yet, but It's way faster than my guilty, which i did gps at 52...
...hmmmm.....
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daaaam...i wish i could go 60!.. :'( :'( :'( i dont tink art was using a 96jet.., hmmm, could be interesting.. i may need sum answers fellas... i took my cyl. head off a min ago to have it shaved for the correct squish band... my plug AND the top of my piston are COMPLETELY HARD CORE rust in color, pretty dam dry.. is that way lean?? head gasket looks wore/burnt (not round anymore either)on very inside edge. mike did not take the cyl itself for opening the exhaust port. he said may need to make sure how much/how.. was told that the shape inside is needed to flow the exhaust. said he would do it but wasnt sure what... the hole inside cyl is round at the opening BUT quickly goes "taco" shape(lack of better term).. do i want the taco shape gone?? completely round and shiny??? just match to the step washer on pipe?? thanks for the replys men!!!.. im slowly trying to catch up wit ya!!....lol
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..i think art is running a 95...i drilled my stock jet out to a 95, which will actually measure 96 due to my unsteady hand....
..i think my 01 has a less restricted exhaust than the later model ppls too...
..still learnin' m'self...
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yeah, between you and art, the ppl seems to be good choice all around!!! i did inspect my head gasket just now, NOT a real gasket, looks like beer can! (for real)!! a scooter shop did my rings/piston about 4000kms ago.!!.... the top of piston looks good(no burns, etc.- just RUST color).. man, im wondering bout that exhaust exit, hmm. looks like shell come apart again..lol didnt match yet anyway.
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..i dunno what the "rust" means...
..though i do know my spark plug chops are all of a "rust" color..
..on a side note, the 2t plug chops are more responsive than chops on a 4t...
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its just a rust color, its dry anyway...lol just got my head back, gonna put it on and see if she starts..lol only have 1 plug 4 a chop. :'(
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what up? just got back from a test run on squish... i did not get ANY power at all, nothing. even seems a tad slower(rpms drop more) at the slightest incline... W.T.H? wheres any power at?? what happened?(cvt almost right, know i need to tweak)my plug was: the curved portion was white again, the mix ring was ALOT darker than before, a real dark brown...
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while i was waiting and hoping for responses, i went out and checked my squish: i may have answered my own ?....oh sh**/ my squish was .021in/.5334mm. how in the hell, .015in was taken off, did i go from .050 to .021in. how in the world can i correct this???????? it would take probably 6 head gaskets to make up .014in? AAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!.. master(s), please help the lowely apprentice.... :-\ :-\
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it would take probably 6 head gaskets to make up .014in
..maybe a 24 oz bud light..........can........
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thanks for the reply..ok, now the mtns are showing...lmao. my math is ALL messed up here.. check this: i started with 1.27mm/.050in...i now have .533mm/.021in..BUT supposedly the ideal squish is .9mm/.035in....which is a difference of .355mm/.014in. which would take 7 .5mm gaskets to make BUT if i have .533mm and i add one(1) .5mm gasket you get 1.033mm.?!?!?!,!?!?!? do you see my issue?? lmao. what the hell is wrong with this equation???? i can have the gaskets picked up tomorrow from a motorcyle shop(if still in stock), BUUUUT my math is ALL WHACKED OUT SOMEWHERE. (i swear i went to school).lmfao....
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..maybe a 24 oz bud light..........can........
..i dunno...however...
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DAAAAM, i am dumb...lol a .5mm gasket is .019in. which would be more than i really need.. then squish is 1.033mm....damnitt man, oops. maybe i rode the "short bus".. (i see you smiling at that too).. guess a can would work since i think thats what was there from that dam "local shop" anyway(dam sure wasnt a real head gasket). you ever opened up exhaust(header side)??? ???
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You will need to up jet,not enouph fuel,had to go up from a 95 to a 115 on my stock build and still to lean.Just got home will be figuring it out this week.It would run the bike out of gas after the squish an exhauet on the stock build with the 95 through 100 main and had to mod the needle 2 gaskets worth of lift to get it to the main without bogging bad.
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You do have to check out the torch tip cleaners,there great!I'm now a believer and cheaper than those micro bits,you can file out to any size you want,and you will be soon ;) Play with your jets before you start playing with your gaskets.I think he took 40,000nts off mine and was to be run without a gasket,running it anyway,ti'll i get my jets straight.I'm close.
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rejet carb w/o a closer squish??.. u was wanting .9mm, from what i understand from here, i now have .533. of course, slinger suggested a can gasket, which i am going to try this a.m, then have one brought if better.. should i start a new thread on this chapter also(called "stock" build??) in my saga??? plz check posts from yesterday as i had a ? about the exhaust exit... thanks for the replys...
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I don't know why the upjet with the squish,but it needed it!check that plug.I have not opened the exhaust my self.,you just want to match the ports or expand and smoothe things out I gather to increase flow.
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Hey check out words look out world post for some fun.
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i have to get some more plugs today, i been sitting here with her tore apart, making gaskets(SUPPOSEDLY have some coming tho). with the way she running, if i upjet again, im sure it will kill her out.. it already bogged at wot some what.. sh**, i need to at least put it close to what it "suppose" to be, right?!?!?!?....
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i have seen some of that...i was getting into it..lol..i want to print that out and maybe i can learn a bit there too..... our motors/carbs are different arent they?? from zxs and ppls.....
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Not sure Its a keihin pb,thought my super fever was the same but could be wrong.hang out for a bit I'll post ya a pick of some tools ya might want to pick up.You got this for,you'll figure it out!
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Here's a pic The torch tip cleaners are great and cheap.the caliper about $20 helps alot to determin just where your at and what will be best for your next guess ;) If you have the pb carb I'd tap it to except the standerd keihin have some #s if you want.Or you could just come and get my silver 2005 people 50 Ha!
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i have no idea what carb this is!!. nothing on it....lol... i have those tools, thats why idk what happened wit the squish, been measuring sh** all day.. torch cleaners i dont have(have micro bits).. will go look at parts store at sizes before i buy one tho....lol..
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Here's a pb attomizer tapad with a standerd 125 main next step on my stock build if i had any energy.
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Not a good pic but it can be done.the letters should be on the intake side of the carb around the mount.
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i will look for that... from memory my atommizer is different..looks like a plain brass rod(bout 2-1/2??in) wit a tit on the inside end where the 4 holes are in the carb......mine has PA on the outside edge of the mount
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should be right here
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I think the pa takes the standerd jets.In my first pick those are jet kits from sip scooters about $20 a kit starting at #120 going to #169 and a pilot jet kit
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can't get a good pic with the size limmit on forum.I'll see what i can do later.
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best i could get,This is with the main seeted in the attomizer
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cool thanks, yeah they must be different..my main jets home is cast, and the pilot is about the same as a ink pen cartridge(supossedly non removable, but they will come out, may break tho)... i am still lost tho, i dont see what your saying about squish, hows rejetting gonna up my compression??? it cant..
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best i could get,This is with the main seeted in the attomizer
..that looks absolutely nothing like mine....
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..art, i put together that same jet drilling kit...damn...
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It was you I got the info from ;D didn't help me to much down there needed one size smaller and thought whats the point without the weights,but did the k/n and up jet on the bro in laws and it was awsome.Ps the k/n kicks ass on the uni I was running a new believer there also!
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..really, there's that much difference between the k/n and the uni??
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Oh ya on mine still had a tiny sputter on the needle with the uni couldn't go any leaner on the jet.The k/n eliminated it and added a little better responce to mid,never got the main ironed out down there,when the belt started grabbing the front was comming up or it was going to break the belt on fast starts!
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...and, i bought a lower priced pod filter...
..can't recall what brand, but it was detachable from the boot that clamps around the carb...
..rolled up in th' drive one day and looked down only to see that the filtering part had left me somewhere on the ride home...
..live and learn...
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I liked the uni (black chrome cap) but I have seen the differencs and got it for about $2 more $40 out the door.Never thought there was a differense ran them in all my dirt bikes.
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well.......... i have one of those lower price cone filters! hope mine dont fall off.. :-\ i passed up a k/n for $30 cuz i didnt know if price was good, mine was $10. ;) (at a diff. place)they still have some k/ns i think...
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..i reckon i will stick with th' k/n from now on...lol..
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hmm, may have to try one, idk how long this one is "supposed to last".. you have made me a believer before on things.. the auto ones are good i know... wonder when z and shaka coming back, need there zx feedback too.... ;D
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..where th' hell are they??
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..zombie's probly kickin out sea-worthy vessels for all the ppls down there in th' gulf...
..shaka's probly doing some more internet how-to vids...
..such is th' life..............
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Hey bat you saying you lost compression,jetting will do nothing for that,think i missed that part.so exhaust is most likly open before the stroke so a gasket is in order.
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..a 24 oz bud light...
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hey word, shaka makes vids?? hmmm, now that could be a good thing..like to see those.. yeah, id say z has his hands full there.. hey art, idk about LOSING it, the shaving was supposed to increase it tho, BUUT, i know low range was slower, wot almost same except for a few bogs. here somewhere with #s about the .9mm/.035in. is ideal so i wanted that. get me some power going.(still need exhaust exit done >:( :'( . i should have the .9/.035 when i try again(got a new gasket from cycle shop,made 4 out of soda cans,lmao.not bad either..lmao). i didnt even get any plugs today, which blows..
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..yeah, shaka's a internet sensation!!
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When I did mine had to re jet big time and think i had to go back to stock weights,it had nothing going for it at first,Don't now the #s havn't got the magic book yet,Let the machinest do all that.and I'm still tooo lean!Wouldn't run past idle at first might want to raise that needle,don't know your carb though
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on this carb i found out in my oem carb thread that its stationary..may have to open that one back up now!..lmao hey word, is he on youtube, under?? like to see what hes got going on for the zx! ;D
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..nope..not on youtube, i don't think, and it's not scooter tuning that he's doing...
it's bicycle stuff...he's a big bug in that field...
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this machinist does have a nice hot rod shop, but according to squish test, he must have shaved TOO much. idk?
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So is the peoples just have to shim it take all the play you can get out of it.The people is spring loaded so gives a little play.
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The people is spring loaded so gives a little play.
..huh??
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cool!! i did not know that.. heeeeyyy word, THANK YOU!! ......HUH????...
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There is a little spring under the cap on the 2002 and newer scoots that holds the needle down into the slide,You can raise it a little with a couple beer can shims
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..my carb has needle adjustments...per a clip and grooves in the needle..
..2001..and judging by those pics you posted, art, my main jet assembly looks nothing like yours..
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Cool you may have an aftermarket or the carb they use in the rest of the world,damn federal laws!What is the model,no wonder you got such a boost with the open air.None of my stockers are like that.
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..this scoot is stock, except for the changes i've made...
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...it has BA10AD(US) printed on the front fairing, just below the headlamp...
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...i did get one helluva kick from the k/n..
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Got to look that model # up! Could probly find a used one at the wrecker around here
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Hell yes ya did,talking about the carb model,the keihin pb is chocked down so you can't do what we do easily,and seem to be made for mopeds and starter quads only I figure any outher model would be better and easyer to get parts for,You scored!
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..the service manual i have, has the same ID numbers...
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Might need to look at the carb Yours is a bit older,don't order any needles with that manuel.Your mains are probably different too.
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..my main jet is the same as the one in the 20mm keihin i bought for my a50...
..i have 3 "95" jets to play with...
..itsa thin head with a slot for a screwdriver...
..small mm diameter threads..
..4mm i think...maybe 5.., but smaller than my oem a50's jet's threads...
..don't look like the ones you posted...atomizer might be similar, but that's all...
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...itsa tiny jet, with a big ol' hole!!..lol
:o
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That was a tapped one,I think they are calling an 8mm don't know how they get there #s It's the most used size for keihin,best selection I think the makuni'es will fit it also.
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Hey batman, when you increase compression you will get detonation, the idea of increasing fuel, (larger jet) is to keep the piston cool. If you have gone too far with shaving your head you can then start using extra shims to adjust it to what setting you want, more compression=more power, just have to get the best compromise between power and detonation.
Oh, if you go down to the beach and look out to the horizon, that thing bouncing over the waves? That would be Shaka on his hotted up Sea-Doo. Lucky Bugga :)
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THIS ONE PIECE IS FOR ZOMBIE AND SKAKA(if they ever return)..lol.. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D...........LMAO.. i figured iut my squish issue, they gave me the wrong gasket to begin with, put a real one on today and BAM, got my .035in./.9mm squish!!. :o ;D i instantly got around 4 mph, and i havent tweaked anything. i could tell a BIG difference already... should i start another thread talking about my oem build???? i cant quite see shaka..lmao.... maybe he is too fast to see..lmao..
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should i start another thread talking about my oem build
...hell yeah, in the super fever board, no doubt...
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i guess your tired of me asking that one...lmao
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..well, not tired of...
..but i saw that you asked it a cpl times...lol..
..build the zx board some...lol...
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..i read nearly everything posted in th' forum...at some point.....
;D
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i couldnt even try to read everything..lmao.. scared to post to much cuz i am still learning zx and others are different in ways..............kinda iffy to start another cuz this one has been around a while now too..lmao.. i had seen that several people have done seperate threads on basically the same project.. ssen somewhere awhile back where z had wanted smileys from shaka, thats why i done those in my thread...that project worked!!!!!! he wanted a 100 of em...lmao...
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oh, i had forgot to add this: today, i seemed to have changed a couple of the issues, 1- my long return to idle was shortened a bit, idk how,why??. 2- it put most of my "stall" back in the cvt... cvt almost right i think but i can feel "belt tug/slippage", i believe, at take off. doesnt GRAB like i wonder if it should.... i wonder if 2000 flys would fix??? 7 rollers will probably TAKE away top end again(bout 3-4mph)..... whats your suggestion???? oh, it was suggested to rejet before adjusting cvt........rpms drop at start of an incline, dont rev as much going uphill( still faster tho).
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If belt is slipping you need bigger rollers and or contra,You will find that you are making power at differnt ranges know,Getting it all to work at the same time is the trick,Just went through it today on my hotrod running a 10g now with the new clutch.
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i think it is...i could feel a tug or something for a sec.......... now heavier rollers wont "throw" the variator out enough to go will it???(i do have a var coming from s.a) i have a malossi yellow also if needed, i used a 1500 for a long while, which seemed to help with my top end BUT my take off suffered some(slower)..
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I'd try the weights I did both today at the same time(mistake)ran a green and a red than put the white contra back in and gained most back plus some heavier flies,still not done it's close,Mine was slipping at take off than would catch real hard thought the belt was going to break or the wheel was ready to come up.Thats gone now,just not sold on the rest of the drive range yet.
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sh**, i am a looong way away from getting the wheel up but thats kindof how mine is now...felt a tug??,(if i push off with my feet, thats helps take off) but she goes on real good quickly, just that initial 1-2 sec at take off, thats why i was wondering about stiffer flys to get rpm up and grab it.... oh, do you know of the malossi sport set flys??? #298746??? these fit right??????.. the hook is shorter than the ones from nyc and the adige clutch ones.... they all said these fit.....could be why they all say they are such a pain in the ass....lmao..i didnt have much trouble with the ones i have, but these here,idk...........
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Weights first i think,running the dr slider now,had to have a friend help with the heavier springs,I didn't have the streangth thought that tool was for sissies Ha!.But your symtom is the same as mine was.Didn't happen when the belt was new zombie said the gates belt tend to slip a bit,I't does
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seems like if i put 8s in (or any heavier than these 7.5s) that the rpms would go further down and suck at take off.. 7s were giving me better in corners, etc. but slower top end. need that top end for these travels here...lol to dam far to go up and down these hills.......got a gates belt too(think the local shop screwed me on MINE,switched it on me, even put in the oem bando belt, still felt that "tug" for a split sec. untill i push off
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When you make more power you can go bigger on the weights all my modded bikes are running stock or heavier now,Another thing that dont sound right,but im running a 10g now on the hot rod,Im giving up alot of take off at the moment,but can cruise pegged at 1/8 throttle,threw an 8.5g in before trip and struggeled to get 60(pegged).Once again getting it all to work together is the trick.I don't have it yet either,my belt was still slipping a bit with the 9g 9.5 next or more spring fun or make the 10g work!!!
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thats one reason i wish i had a spare pulley to have 2 different clutch set ups to try out, save some time...lol...yeah, i am trying to keep as much top as possible........ i still have to get exhaust exit done......maybe i can get 1 more mph from that.....wonder if I could handle that?? (and matching)...
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Your going to have to tell me how its done aint tried yet,got the books linked though reading math puts me to sleep 8)
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matching is supoosed to be easier than PORTING, thats where the math comes in..lmao....tooooo scared for that leap right now...lmao....... match the cyl and crankcase up.... supposedly the zx can get upwards of 10mph....
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Thats a mod worth doing will look into when i tear down the stock build again( I forsee some more jetting in the future ;D ) ps my dremmel finaly showed up
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a new toy????...lmao.. sweeeet, i have access to a dremmel kit when i want to try to match
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Shiney new,back orderd knew the price was too good,wanted to start cleaning the vaspa cases a month ago,Untill word told me about the longer belt for the people!Starting to look like a fall project
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good deal...gotta love it. on the exhaust, im thinking of just trying to open it myself. will i still want the "taco shell"shape??. just open up to the step washer w/ the same shape or completely round?.. that will only help flow, not any sort of performance, right???.. the reason cuz my guy was wondering if it would hurt in anyway....also I wonder cuz if i need to be ready for cvt yet again then..... want to get exhaust open, cvt adjusted, THEN matching!! (then new carb,id say! :D ;)..)... clean the cases??????...
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Here's some machinest #for the people exhaust don't know what they mean or if they will help in your case.your guy might know what it means.This applies to the angle to the piston from exhaust port.(ex 167 26.6) (tr 126 31.82) ( stock 42m) (low .0/0) He had to build some sort of special jig to get these measurments and havn't been back for an explanation,thats all ya gotta do ;D .Doing a full big bore build plus krank and seals on a 63 vespa vbb soon to be 175cc some day(the parts are here) got to finish my other stuff and maybe sell a bike or two.
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:o :o well then....those #s lost me..lmao.. i hear ya, thats all you gotta do!!.. lmao... did you only have the header side done, right?.. or did you have the port also?.. my guy builds hot rods, dont know if hed know about this or not...thinking i am the 1st scooter for him.(does great work tho w/the cars, did me right so far too. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;) )...... sounds like you have it going on up there wit scoots.....must be nice :D :D
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This applies to the angle to the piston from exhaust port.(ex 167 26.6) (tr 126 31.82) ( stock 42m) (low .0/0)
...wtf.........................................................................................uck ???
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:D :D :D .....I FEEL YA!!!...
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...X..Y..Z...
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Ya header side This is a proper angle formula for the people it should apply to all combustion engines,if you have a place to measure from,thats were the jig came in and took for ever to get some results,If ya been following me and word on look out world i got some pics,got like 7 runners and about 16 total,in various states of disrepair,Wish i started with the people first they get most of my attention,got 4 honda aeros 50 to 125cc and a real dio from canida,titles are a problem here.(parts is parts) This is my full time hobby im all busted up,can't hold a real job do to injeries,i used to ride dirt mostly but cant get my leg over the seat any more let alone the back problems,had to ride so the switch to scooters and love it,my little sence of freedom and the work keeps me half sane ;D
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O.K it's not the formula it's the results,don't know thr formula,thats what machinests are for and slowing your projects from completion :D
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,my little sence of freedom and the work keeps me half sane
...i hear you bro...wanna rent out that scooter room??
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Used to be a garauge hasn't seen a car in years and have several more scoots on the side of the house.Got a old horse shed out back,that will be converted to a three car 50 scoot Shed some day It must remain a shed for city ordinace purposes ;D Need to get some help my carpenter days or over,can't do the lifting but know how to supervize well with a beer in one hand.
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..my grampa and his grampa before were carpenters...
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Sounds like you guys have been very busy! Sorry for the absence!
Batman- congrats on getting the squish figured out! On the exhaust you just want to clean up any irregularities, keep the original shape. It just needs to make a smooth transition from the "taco" shaped port to the header. The diameter of the cylinder outlet needs to match that of the pipe. It can get real tricky getting into fluid dynamics and such. The main thing is to make the smoothest flow from the combustion chamber to the pipe. Keep in mind that the header has a bend not far after entering the exhaust side. You want to factor that into the cylinder shape as well. You don't want just a straight passage out of the cylinder and then into the header for a sharp bent. That will disrupt the overall flow. Looking at my stock cylinder the exhaust port is pretty clean! The only thing that may need to be changed is the diameter to match that of the pipe.
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crap, i was thinking THAT part would be pretty simple..he may know. at first i was thinking that you just wiped it all out.(not totally to the inside port)......i couldnt imagine that many scoots, be nice to have more than ONE for sure!! :D or even some parts to learn with(in case i screwed it up,lmao)...... be nice to find a "scooter graveyard" i know the feeling about keeping sanity! ;) mmmmm, cold beer!!! 8) im thirsty now
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HEEY, SHAKA!! WELCOME BACK... thanks for the reply, hope all is well on your side.... if it only needs to match that "step washer" on the pipe( just that one part), i should be able to do that.. yeah, i could tell a nice difference on the squish, I WANT SOME MORE!!.. lmao... may pick up a bit w/a 1500 main..idk which part, gotta play i guess.. thinking 2000 flys....she is starting to run nicely, i wish she was mean....lmao
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All is well here! Got the Seadoo running for the first time on Friday!!! WhooHoo! It's a beast, 580cc of liquid cooled 2T greatness!!! ;D Still haven't got it in the water yet, hopefully into the pool tomorrow!
I've thought about going to 2000K fly springs myself, but I think they may be too much! As it sits now with the 1500's the clutch engages at about 7000 rpm. I too get what I believe to be the occasional belt and/or clutch slip. I still need to get a stiffer contra, I think that will remedy the slippage. When mine hooks up, it launches hard!
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What shaka is saying,you can do at home,I guess i did have the port opened a bit for more top sapposedly Thus the angle i mentioned, and # which i don't understand,I'll get more info when i see him next.I think i'm starting one (graveyard)I have a buddy that cant seem to pass up an untitled scoot for under $150 I make them run if possible then they sit here.I think i got through to him no title it's not worth more than $50 and is a parts bike only,It's hard to impossible to get a title in this state without some paper work ::) I do have a 1989 honda elite 80 motor you can practice on with a sledge hammer :D It was my biggest failure to date and still won't go over 45mph.Was glas to see it go at a $100 loss.
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that sounds like a beast... :o thatll be fun... at least someone else feels the tug, oh did you happen to see about the sport set flys, are you sure those fit??? malossi#298746 the hook is shorter than on the others i have.. i have the malossi white contra in now myself... hadnt ran a 1500 in while but when i did it suffered at take off(never been perfect yet anyway) but id SWEAR i got top out of it...mmm, wish i had two complete setups to try..lmao
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The exhaust is easy to do at home with a dremel. You shouldn't need to do much more that about 1/4 of the way in. Just so the transition between the cylinder and header is smooth and the same size. You'll also notice there is somewhat of a hump in the floor of the port. I would leave that mostly alone as it probably helps direct the flow into the bend in the header.
I'm not positive on the Malossi springs as I have not used them, but I think those are supposed to fit. The stiffer contra will make you suffer on take off, as it essentially does the same as making the rollers lighter. You need to go heavier on the rollers to compensate for the stiffer contra.
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man, art i wish you were close, people here dont care about papers, they ride em anyway...s&h would be a bitch too..lmao that built ppl didnt have any papers and he wanted 800...
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oh crap, i bet they wont fit then..just like the air filter from them also and a polini clutch bell...shhhhhhit...im getting some useless parts around here...lmao.. yeah, its in here somewhere we (me,you,z) were talking about them(IT TOOK ME TEN WEEKS TO GET THEM), idk, the one side of the hook is a touch longer on the ones im running now and the ncy ones i have, these are the same on both sides..
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I wish,Once i get my three car (shed) done thats what i will probably do,break them down label a and part them out,The stuff i dont want!I've heard there are some cheap alterntives for the shipping,got to know the right people zombie has a line on something might be worth looking into.They ship whole cares all over the place,truckers going home empty try to mack a little cash for the trip.I got a motor he's interested in,but technicaly i don't own it,my buddy does and he's missing in action right now, a coast to coast venture,I'm hopeing all will work out. Got to run catch ya all later
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the pack of malossi sport set fly springs have on the back:......cx-dink-djx/y-heroism-k12-sniper.. then also.....ppl-super9lc-topboy-cobra..#298746... of course i have a different clutch in..have an adige at the moment..will be putting in a motorio this go round..those fac springs are CRAAAZYY stiff........ shaka, are you using those plain fac springs or have you swapped out?????
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That should be the right set. Those should fit on the Motorio clutch as well. I swapped out the springs that came with the Motorio clutch from the get-go. I'm currently using the red Jasill springs. They are the middle ones, theirs go green, red, blue.
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hey shaka, imma gonna play wit cvt this a.m a lil bit.. i just changed my flys to 2000??(green adige).. the one side of the hook is longer as is 2 coils longer.. they are pretty easy to change, not much effort at all..i remember you/word saying how big of a pain in the ass they were to change, i am wondering if the shorter ones are wrong from the get go.... bet you never noticed a length difference huh?? the ncy 1500 are same way as the oem/adige..(pack says gy6)
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ok, just went on a test run wit different springs(2000?). it seemed to help the "tug" i was feeling, have a touch more "stall" again, BUT somethings missing..take off is a bit slow at FIRST(rpms r higher)(w/o the tug),then she goes.. and rpms drop when your going up a hill. ill go from 50 to 35 on a hill(gets steeper toward top) bout 1/4-1/2 mile long...... wonder if the 1500 main would help that part.....wheres the "launch" at, if any... seen built ones have high rpms and a bit slow take off, then GONE!!
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My built bikes don't have great take off,going more for top speed,could try to drop a 1/2gram before swapping the spring,I'm still new to this cvt game,sprokets and gears were my thing
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yeah, i have been trying different combos..gonna go back to 1000 main and try a few more, got a few errands to run, was hoping to dail it in 1st.... one set up stayed in second longer, one hit 3rd quicker. one was almost same..hmmm.. thanks for the reply....yeah, i am new at this too...lmao.......
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with my 1500 fly springs I got a slightly better initial take off, but when I put in the 1000 torque spring I lost some top end, will need to go to a heavier roller, am currently running 6 gram Dr. Pulley sliders.
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i am back for another round of ? for all of you...lmao. still trying to adjust my cvt.. what should i be listening for anyway?? i want max rpm at take off, correct??... tried 8.5w/1500 take off a bit better, but the tug is back., seems to have lost 1-2mph(maybe just heat,humidity today,idk) from the 8.5. does seem to have helped my hill climb tho. i have many hills going up an down but i NEED topend cuz of the backroads and distance of travel for me to town, get there quicker. need to zip in and out of traffic in town...dam, i want both worlds huh...........gonna try several 1000 set ups today.. the shift pattern changes everytime. last one hardly had 1st,looong 2nd,o.d. how do tou get EQUAL "gear shifts"? thats what you want, right?
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With that set up i'd try a 9g,To the best of my knowledge Your contra spring changes the rpm your clutch enguages at,but also acts like a weight change(heavier spring = to lighter weight)so not that I know what I'm doing,get the spring that starts to grab about where youd like it to(rpm) than start with the weight changes,of corse after modding they don't make the weights that works best for your set up,get that as close as possible.Now its time to get your micro gram scale(dope scale) and start shaveing some metal out of each roller,With your saldering skills you could add some weight also ;D .The tugg you are feeling should be weights are too light(belt is slipping)Reality I've been chaseing mine around in circles for three days now and still no closer after the race clutch and longer belt change,can't find my stock spring to start from scratch ::)
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what up art? thanks for the reply.... well, i guess MY last few days are shot...lmao...just received my "race variator" from s.a.(same one that sid runs).(took me awhile just to order the dam thing). seems to be pretty good shipping time too.. it came with 8s in it, ill try them for sh**s an giggles. seems the 1000 gives me a bit more top, but the 1500 helps my hill speed.. only have up to 8.5 rollers right now. hey, i have those scales..lmao..work reall good too...lmao, BUT idk about shaving rollers, a 7.25 may be nice tho.....
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I havn't found a perfect roller yet,if you have a old unused light set you can fill them with salder and the fun begins,think they will need to be brass and have the potentual to be over 12g,with my race clutch I moved to the 9g and over club 8.5 belt slips and power peaks too early,that why im thinking the stock spring again if i could find It :P
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Batman- The 1500 contra is probably what you want to try and use. It is giving you the extra umph on the hills and a slight loss in top speed because your rollers are too light though. Try some 9 gram rollers with that 1500 contra. You should get the top end back.
It is pretty easy to lighten the rollers on a drill press. I took .5 g out of my slider. Idk about adding weight back with solder though. Never tried, but it seems like it would have to be evenly distributed or the rollers would wear on one side.
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G'day Shaka, with drilling out the rollers, wouldn't that be a bit risky with taking too much too easily? I remember you managed to strike a winner when you did yours, but would it really be something you could do with reasonable control? On a side note, you must be hangin' to try out that Sea-Doo :)
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??? :'( HOLY BREAKDOWN BATMAN!!!!!.. i know its friday eve. but i sure hope someone is in to point me in the right direction.. installed the new race var from s.a(dam rollers..lmao),ANYWAY, ran good, today i left, stopped to get gas, when i wanted to leave the pump,MY MOTOR IS LOCKED?!?!?!?. ran fine till then, all i did was stop for gas, cut it off,filled up, locked down!!.....omw out to start tearing her apart.....ANY IDEAS FOR ME??...THAT WAS JUST WHACK........THANKS IN ADVANCE...
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With some luck hope it's something stuck in the starter gear or drive face,left some thing in there by accident,didn't tighten the nut fully.Look there first.After that see if it will turn over with the kickstart,if still locked up may have some more serious issues.check all tranny side first.
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;D WHEW!!!... i think its simple...i just threw the panic button out...lmao anyway, it looks like that new var was hitting side of case and stuck.. i took some off knowing it had to b done.. ran good, then lock down.. i can turn the crank with my hand now with the var off. i took a hair more off of the case.looks like it free spins again, have to look closer to make sure, thankfully i was only a few miles from the house getting gas.... thanks for the reply art, be back in a bit....
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man.....that was scary, sorry for the panic button...she started right up again, seems ok, guess i need to get her hot again CLOSER to home in case before i head out..lmao...
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Ya got to leave a little room for expansion,didn't know you had to shave the case,glad it worked out for ya!
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Yep, you warmed the engine up. When you turned it off- no cooling, heat soaking through a touch more expansion,just enough to lock. Hope all is good now.
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thanks....i had no clue.. rained hard today so i didnt get to ride it, i sure hope i shaved enough off THIS time
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yeah, hope so, if not you know where the problem is. Is that touching on the moulding by the starter?
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Ha! if you ride in the rain it will keep it cooler! 8) You might be on to a whole new mod ;D
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Sorry couldn't help my self :D
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yeah but riding in the rain sux...lmao...anyway, cooler would be nice, i still havent found a "air induction", i think that would help.. i did mention that to mike but thats all so far......oh yeah, its all good..rlmao... hey sid, yeah right there on that hump is where it touched.. at first i thought i was gonna have to shave a different spot till i put it on.
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Yeah, I was worried about grinding it at first but then I just thought "bugger it, do it". Then I found out that the other side of the part you are grinding is only the outside anyway. So, if you did go through it wouldn't do any harm.
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i never thought about that...dam, i may just take it bit more off just to be safe, that way i wont have to worry about it when i do take off somewhere....
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Ya i got a basket case vino 125 the guy literaly cut the cover off of to save weight,although i think that was the downfall of the motor he caught a rock in the drive face and kickstarter at speed.
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Nah, it's all good mate, just a bit of a shave and you're fit to go.
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Grind away batman just dont go crazy! It will run without a cover,if you start with your finger on the starter gear it will run,but any outside interference at speed could be Bad!!!The reason for the cover.Think of a belt driven harley,great ti'll a dingo gets stuck in there!!! HA! Someone should put the keyboard down ;)
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i got it i guess..took her out today and never froze up......thank goodness..... BUT it did to seem take forever to catch up...
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Hey batman, I just replied on the other thread. I just had a thought (few and far between), the variator is not still touching the case is it. Just thinking not enough to lock but just drag.
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took her out today and never froze up
..i knew a girl like that once..
;D
..i'm just sayin'......
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HEY......i know SEVERAL of those in these parts!!.... ;) :D :D :D :D
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well guys, i am back for more abuse......lmao. i will play with crb/cvt once more but i would like some guidance..i do believe shaka and z have performed this act on the zx( by now i think). .i did learn that getting alot of top end was unrealistic( had heard 6-8mph) but bottom, mid would be noticably improved......any body have any experiance in this field??... told about 2-1/2 hr job.. want to port exhaust at the same time but dremmel wont fit in cyl. cuz of the bulkiness( believe i recieved a crash course in porting exhaust on another forum...lmao)...any help will be GREATLY appreiciated..........
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well i thought i was gonna do my next project tonight but now i am totally lost on this matching thing..have motor tore down, ALL appears to match up..sides, back, all seem right?? damnitt man, wheres zombie and/or shaka????lmao...........anyway i took cyl off and it had a nasty amount of carbon buildup on exhaust port!!!. got it off finally, what in the world is that from?? plugs indexed, was lean tho....it was crazy amount..port dam near stopped up: half way anyway!!!....my cyl. wall looked to have a bit of "burning","scorching", cyl has like a goldISH color right now(no dam honer either :()........ tried to make a port map and that was a complete failure..need a secret ther...lmao
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Your a little over my head there,I know sometimes just polishing and making all transitions as smooth as possible can help. The carbin build can be the type of oil your useing I notice this with bel rey more than others and of corse all the changes you have been doing. Mybe it will fly right now ;D
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well i thought i was gonna do my next project tonight but now i am totally lost on this matching thing..have motor tore down, ALL appears to match up..sides, back, all seem right?? damnitt man, wheres zombie and/or shaka????lmao...........anyway i took cyl off and it had a nasty amount of carbon buildup on exhaust port!!!. got it off finally, what in the world is that from?? plugs indexed, was lean tho....it was crazy amount..port dam near stopped up: half way anyway!!!....my cyl. wall looked to have a bit of "burning","scorching", cyl has like a goldISH color right now(no dam honer either :()........ tried to make a port map and that was a complete failure..need a secret ther...lmao
...huh?...
.
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well i actually have used different oil...belray mostly...lmao....had some motul, told to try the 800?motul....sh** i only get around 12tanks of gas per bottle of oil, my sh** burns it up somewhere, it gets expensive...lmao....oh yeah, couldnt get a truck to go an pick up those parts bikes yesterday, damnitt..theres 3 waiting on me(the 150 runs,its a maligutti w/a kymco engine,broke rear brake mount tho)......... sh**, i can hope she flys right now....lmao.....oh yeah, how many miles you figure on a set of rings with all dhese trials and tribulations
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:D :D i confused word again i see.... :D :D at least i am good for something.. :D ;)
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...yeah, i'm 2-stroke stupid...
..really, i am...lol...
:o
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i had wanted to match cyl and crankcase but tore it all apart and dont see what gets done on this zx..think z an shaka have done this before.
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Not sure on the miles,i've had dirtbikes that i rode the hell out of and they are still out there running. The 50cc class is all new to me. Once dialed they actually work better with less effort.If not wot all the time!
Who needs brakes anyway. I'm running motul now havent had it running long enouph to give a review. The bel rey always clogged my old bikes and I usually ran yamalube with good results and i'm a honda guy. No place to get local.
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Just another thought on oils I would not recommend blensdall (performs great but leaves a sticky residue an everything) and redline (overpriced and poor performance ta boot) Would not burn worth a damn even at 40to1 left an ooze trail all over the place.
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And yet another thought on your matching. When i took mine to the machinest with the porting and all on the kymco there wasn't allot to do he said opening the exhaust was the only bottleneck he could see. I know he could have done more but the biggest bang for the buck was dialing in the exhaust port. Which i'm having him do right now with an oversized piston. For my sorta stock build(wont be to stock when im done) but using all modded stock parts cept the piston now.
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well luckily i have only used belray and motul..gotta get out of the belray, shesh!!!....thanks for the oil tip.. yeah,i think i had gotten a crash course on the exhaust port but my dremmel wont fit, need a angle dremmel or the flex shaft, idk...... i want it done..still debating on a reed cage w/malossi one or mh one or just change reeds for oem..you can port those supposedly...lol... oh yeah, at least i can say i can tear my motor down and put her back together and start 2nd kick.......HOOAH!!! :D ;D ::)
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Your doing better than me right now. I think i glued my reeds shut on th 50+ :P
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oh sh**, you cut your own i guess??? using the stock cage??
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Yep,had it torn down for the stater(no spark)and decided to throw some new reeds in it while there(had a couple sheets of material). I now have spark and no vacume. I remember they were a little tacky still,but didnt think they would stick
Ha! At least i hope this is it. If not i'm stumped.
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Hooah, I dont think there is any matching to be done on the stock cyl. unless you want to be very fussy. with the after market ones there is some to be done. once you get the ex. cleared you will notice a hell of a difference, that is why your cyl. is over heating. If you can, use a synth. or semi synth oil, mine costs $17.50 per litre and using 250ml per 10 litres of fuel.
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hey sid, whats up?. thanks for the reply, (you too art..lmao)........yeah, i had seen the parts to match on a euro model but when i tore mine down i was like, w.t.h? i didnt see anything either. need to get that exhaust ported for sure, woukd love to send off and get whole cyl ported but im sure thats expensive as hell......... i did use the belray s7 syn oil a few times...lmao...... damnitt man, hope its only glued shut.....i wanna change that somehow myself via, new cage or just reeds....maybe get something out of ut...lmao
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hey art, how thick are your reeds??? i remember z saying to get like .028/.029..malossi cage comes with.030/.035..just measured oem(have extra) reeds, they are only .007...wth?
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Ha! Lost in some research. IT says they are 10.4 mm I didn't mic them but appear to be = to stock width maybe a hair thicker not much I'll get the inch readings .014 and are the same as the stock but carbin fiber. Ha! if ya double them up they will be the same as mine.(It could be done)
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dam, i wish i had a puter.id take a pic of mine and show you...gonna have to get your # and i can send you a pic of stuff...my scoot too...lol anyway, im gettung lost here...why are MY oem reeds soooo dam thin(.007) but elsewhere should be around .028-.035.... guess your cage is different than a zx??... a guy told me you can port the cage itself, get 1mph an help flow, was gonna try and see but the thickness of my reeds had me...
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It do seem thin.I know for awhile in the dirt bike world they were useing doubled up reed sets and 2 stage sets, What do you need to send pics. I have no cell phone (I'm old school that way) and a cheap basterd ;D . I worked as a tech for some time and was on call 24/7 hated the leash!!! Never again!
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...bat, send me your phone pics, and i'll post them...
..pm me for my cell #...
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You do need a computer when ya can check this vid out http://www.youtube.com/user/1PizzaFace#p/u/17/oddlfjtZBYo (http://www.youtube.com/user/1PizzaFace#p/u/17/oddlfjtZBYo)
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whats up guys....hell yeah, thanks word....i only have a couple of the scoot that turned out anyway, one of head after shaved and top of piston when apart.. want to take a pic of reed cage also to see how different.and the polishedISH belt cover...lmao.... UPDATE THO: went out for a ride today....HELL YEAH, i could tell a difference today..either the adjustment on jet or the removal of all that dam carbon!. ::) chunks of it..if she runs like that everyday, then we shall be getting somewhere..hella difference!!!! mid better, top even better..take off sluggish tho, maybe 6.5-6..idk wondering about those shims now for the carb. ;)....DEFINATELY GOTTA GET THAT EXHAUST PORTED NOW!! ;D way digging the ride today, pipe is even louder....again...lmao
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Ahh, thet's good to hear, small job, big results. With regard to the reeds, your stock ones are stainless steel and are therefor thinner, when zombie said 30thou he was talking about fbre reed material. Apparently you can get the material in varying thicknesses and zombie suggested .030 as the best selection. If you were going to get your cylinder worked on, I would consider going to a larger kit, it probably wouldn't cost much more, in america you are lucky, more choice, less cost. When I was having trouble with mine I sent email to MHR and he replied with a quote of $121 for a cylinder kit and shipping
to Australia $126. Give it a go bat, you will like it, just be careful which one you buy.
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Hay sid noticed you mentioned some crazy quotes for a topend. Check out sip for some great deals I get almost all my stuff there now. They are located in germany and shipping to the states has been real reasonable and pretty damn fast no more than 5 days to west coast of the u.s. if in stock. Don't know about down under but there prices may make up for it. My faverite shop for after market stuff. Kinda a pain in the arse to navigate and half is in german,but once you get the hang of it you'll get some of the best prices in the world. check it out http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/M319987/Racing+cylinder+72cc+MALOSSI.aspx (http://www.sip-scootershop.com/EN/Products/M319987/Racing+cylinder+72cc+MALOSSI.aspx)
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Hey, thats cool, if its in German I could order a conrod and receive a pair of handlebars.:) But, seriously though, I might check them out.
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..batman's pics...
..bat, you'll have to add any commentary...lol
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..more batpics!
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...nice looking scoot, btw...
peace
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Looking good! Wow my reed cage looks nothing like that,If you get that people see if ya can swap them out.
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If you get that people see if ya can swap them out.
..i believe the bolt-hole patterns are different..
..the ppl's are offset on one end...
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Ha! who needs bolts. Batman has a dremmel and aint afraid to use it ;D
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;D :D :) :D ;D
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thanks guys.....thanks wordslinger for posting for me....... guess any statements made here: 1 is my piston top just before squish setting(idk y just wanted to see the color)..1 is of my TINY exhaust port(GOTTA GET THAT OPEN AFTER THIS CARBON DEAL,BET SHELL REALLY WAKE UP THEN).. 1 is my semi polished belt cover,(gave up after 12-13hrs trying to polish, looks great at a distance..lmao)(w/my TINY ass carb in the pic)...thought i sent 2 of the scoot.. she has came A LOOOONG way.. believe it or not, when i got i got it, i unloaded off truck in couple pieces, finally got her oem again, THEN STARTED MODDING... ;D ;) ALREADY WANTING ANOTHER MOD..LMAO ;)
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..you did send 2 scoot pics...they looked the same to me....
???
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so thr reed cages are off...well dam....the malossi one #m2711796 looks very similar to this oem one, just a 2 finger/petal tho..told to get a ovforce 2 sided one instead..dont see how itll fit tho.... i did take my other oem reed cage today and port it outome, havent tried it yet tho, wanted to make sure she was gonna still run like yesterday... i see if i can get a pic of the ported one up........hey word, ALMOST...LMAO slightly different, its all good... can i send the pic
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...send the other if you want..
..i'll process it...
;D
peace
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..can you text to email??
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i guess i can..idk.. dam phone does everything else..lmao thanks man..
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..the pics may be better if you can send them to my email, as opposed to my pissy little fone....
:-\
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..the two scoot pics i still have in my phone's inbox are identical....
..hmmm...
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i sent a few to the email, dont know if any better or not,.need to take more..lmao....
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i may have found a oem rescriction...went to put ported reed cage on, happened to look at intake/cage side..my intake gasket is larger than the opening for the reed cage...couldnt i port that material off the intake?? to match intake/reed cage....WOW....the intake holes into case are WAY SMALL...bet thats a good rescriction to but dont see how i can port THAT and not get anything inside, unless i had a vaccum there also to suck debris away......any input on this anybody???...i know another forum, they praise ALL porting there but hardly any kymcos...lol.. the bottom of intake/top of cage dont match worth a crap, nor the gasket...lol
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You can deffinatly open the gasket to match Highly recomended :D . For the inside you may be able to cover with plastic and tape,have compressed air on stand by to blow out the flakes from time to time.
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..repost batman's pics...
...th' zx super fever...
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..dremel porting...
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..the polished cvt cover...
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thanks word....you are the man!!!. dam that scoot looks good...lmao.. small as hell...... see that difference in reed cages?? whoa..... hope it works..lmao.. i wish idda took a pic, the gasket stayed on the intake, gasket was alot bigger than oem machining..lol... may have to try that....didnt you do that last week art?? good results i guess..better flow anyway huh.... i do not see how a 2 sided cage could even fit but been told by SEVERAL ppl to use those instead..my case only has a curve in it w/2 small intake openings.. youd have to cut ALOT of metal out, dont see how unless complete disassembly either..
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ya the 2 stage is the most popular. You may be able to build the port up to fit one (couple of those thick gaskets modded),some kits may have the stuff you need. Not sure where i'm at on the hot rod chek my people post. The porting didn't hurt it but I'm back to square one. Should have parts for my other two builds soon so may be on the shelf for a bit.
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..holy sh** batman!! (I always wanted to hear robin say that..lol..)
..no problemo!!
..i got some pics of my brand spanking new oem ppl 50 reed cage i'm fixin to post...
..over yonder>>...
;D
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theres no open hole to EVEN insert one.. the way my oem curves on bottom, thats the way the case is, solid curve to the small intake opening..idk...
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When you buy the vee reed block (cage) for the four reeds you get the mount for it that mounts the block above the crankcase.
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really now??????? that part i didnt know..maybe i could have a v style cage then...seems like something would change, having the reeds further away from the intake/case side
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I would have to go over the two stroke tuner's habdbook again to find what the difference is, but by moving the reeds back it does alter your crankcase volume but I don't know what effect it has on performance. When I put mine on I went from the stock carb to a 24mm job, so any difference would have been from that. Once you put on that type reed cage and inlet manifold you open up new options with carbs. Having said that, I don't know how large you can go while staying on a 50cc cylinder. Have a look around, there is plenty of gear out there for you, and you get it a hell of a lot cheaper the we can down here in god's garden.
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hey there sid, thanks man, yeah i would like a reed cage..i want to leave it "stock"(50cc)(but built...lmao).. i am thinking a 17mm carb, reed cage and sooner or later oversize piston/rings..i am thinking/hoping that would be my wish list....OH YEAH, would like to change gears in the end for the added top but wonder if i actually need the bigger piston first..go ahead with gears(same as shaka) before hand??????? hmmm???? so you actually have a v style on your zx?? hmm? cool deal..shaka mentioned the same as his(but doesnt look like a regular v style)(m.h) but the intake wont allow my oem carb(he saud it would, but the pic?????).. i figure that should handle business.... :D :D ....cheaper. ;) :D i do have a print of that, dont think i saw that..hmmm???????
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...god's garden...
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got a ? about a 4t....WHOA...LMAO... anyway, guy said his brand new scoot quit, saw me trying to tune mine, asked if i look at it/what should he do?. well he brought it instead, its a jackel 150s..idk??. anyway, sometimes itll idle, ANY gas it stalls. sometimes it wont idle.when it does idle, dont give it gas..spark good, plenty of fuel reaching carb. did find vaccum hose dry rotted in half(75 dam miles).he said it was like mine, this is a 4t, NOT LIKE MINE....LMAO.. carb stopped up maybe???, or a aiir leak???
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All them hoses should be changed + carb for best results Ha! or trade it in for a kymco ;D Have heard the hoses cant withstand the pressure may suck them flat with vacuum Ha! Thats before you can attempt to tune ::)
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NO TUNNING.....JUST WANTED TO HELP GET CRANKED AND RUNNING AT LEAST
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...sounds to me like a thorough carb cleaning is long overdue...
..i had the SAME problem when i used some canned gas i had in th' shed...
..took me a cpl months of periodic cleaning (when it would f8ck up, usually in th' mornings leaving for work), ..and a new fuel filter before i got it all cleared out...
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wrll, i have fixed my first 4t... WOOO HOOOO.. ;D i did find some rotted vaccum lines and cleaned carb,and out of oil!! she started and ran.(only about 10mph faster than mine, maybe,hmmm??????)..carb jet gotta be off tho, pretty rich, plug pretty black at mix ring..bet a rejet, air filter, holes would make that chinesse thing go then.... i am sllloooowwwwlllyy learning these scoots..4t WAAAY FRSAKIN DIFF. FOR SURE..
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..yeah, way different...
..shoulda seen me crawling all under my 2t looking for a place to drain the crankcase oil...
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;D
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and now look at ya word, WAY past me on the 2t knowledge also.. :D ;)
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...no, i've never squished or ported...
:-\
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lmao...i can't DIAL in the cvt .......... ever seen going from 7s to 6.5 and the stall change??????????? figured te 6.5s would set it off BUUUT, stall was a touch less..did get a new belt yesterday ;) will see how that helps...to much rain this week to do anything so far..gonna be rainy today...word is probably getting washed away yesterday an today...hang on homey... :D
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well ill be god damned....changed my belt just now, my dam stall is completely gone now.....wtf?? explain that sh**........i lost my printout of the var settings too....not that i understood the thing anyway
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ALSO, i forgot to ask.........does anyone ever have a oily buildup IN BETWEEN the reeg cage and cyl.????????(on the inside)....
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No stall?-broken spring? You will have an oily build up in the crankcase, is from the oil in the fuel.
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springs look fine...i had put in 6.5 yesterday, stall half gone, put in belt this a..m all stall is gone....how can the cvt change with a BELT replacement..????????? also, topic #2: i have a bit of oily looking residue on one side of my reed cage, next to the cyl. seems to lay on top of case on the backside of reed cage.....am i leaking air at my reed cage???????....seems to have always been there...i had cleaned it off last week, now its back, so something, right?????.. thinking/hoping just a plain ol air leak......any suggestions....thanks for the reply sid, hope all is well on your side of the puter.....
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Not all belt brands are the same size if it's working for you keep note as to the brand. Maybe an airleak and air leaks ar'nt good,keep an eye on it.
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exactly the same belt........ aahhhhh, see. ???????????????????????????
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Maybe all those rounds of tuneing tore up the other belt. When I had mine all out of wack one ride around the block left belt dust everywhere.(slipping real bad)
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sh**, i have had belt dust from day one...the first day i started her up 2yrs ago.. nothing new there..lmao washed cover again today.....
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Yep, like art said, if you have a leak seal it up. I had some oil on mine around the same area so sealed with permatex no.3.
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You will notice less belt dust when hitting the right range for your cvt and less heat.
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yeah, imma go get sum gasket sealer right now just in case..lmao soooo art, good buddy, i guess your telling me im getting ready to be screwed again with this freakn cvt..........see why ppl love the hippie grass...lmao....
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word is probably getting washed away yesterday an today...hang on homey... :D
..no, actually it was dry yesterday......rained a bit today, and i gotta storm coming my way now...
..bat, if you have a leak, that may be the root of your consistency delima...
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i swear imma go get sum sealer...lmao.. had to try cvt 1st... check this out, i just put in a set of 5.7g rollers (wish i had 6s).. take off slower, a bit of tug again BUT the top great, mid great, rpms are jamming uphill(like suppose to do, i think). better than the 6.5.. would 6s fix that or should i try the 2000flys...imma try them, sh**...i pretty much like 5.7 except for the slight tug at takeoff..DONT WANNA FK THIS BELT UP....LMAO
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well, take off still sux....seems to be all "2nd",no 1st(slow ass tug) no 3rd......guess its not meant for me to have any take off AT ALL..... scotty said i could either have take off or top end NOT BOTH..maybe he was right after all..top, mid is great..all 2nd tho....according to the paper, thats not right either......
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Batman- You should really make yourself a leak-down tester! It's the only way to be certain of no air leaks! That could definitely be the root of your inconsistency! There is some great info over on SI about doing a leak-down test. I can send you some pics of mine if you like also. The clutch fly springs will not have any effect on your cvt set-up after initial take-off also. They play no role in the "shifting" aspect of the cvt. They just start the shifting process at a set rpm depending upon the stiffness of the springs. Keep that in mind!
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...damn...there's shaka!!!
long time no speak bro!!...
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..and there he went........
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dam, i done missed shaka.....WHAT UP THO??.. i put the 6.5s back in..if it wasnt for the takeoff, id be good to go(6.5s do make rpms drop sum uphill tho, like to try 6s, kindof dig the 5.7s BUT i have a bit of tug).. i have tried the 1500 contra but she seems to get worse,(seemed to bog/sluggish worse at takeoff) guess i need more umph for it....idk...... now i am only assuming i have a air leak by the residue on the back side of my reed cage.......runs good otherwise, i would think a leak would make it run worse....idk... well sh**, imagine that aye word?!?!? POOF, maybe he buddys with david copperfield... :D :D :D
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Sorry guys, just been busy! Back in school now along with everything else! ;) Have you tried a white Malossi contra? I think that 1500 may me too stiff to keep your stock engine in the ideal rpm range. I'm actually running that white spring on mine. You really do need to make sure you don't have an air leak though. Like I said the only way to know for sure is by doing a leak-down test! I test mine every time after pulling apart the motor and you'd be surprised at how often there is a leak! I would say for certain that $20 tester has saved my engine now a few times! I'm sure what would cause the residue behind he reeds. It may be normal. Take of pic of it if you get a chance, I'm curious!
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hey shaka, i remember a leak down tester here....somewhere!!!..i believe it was yours to be exact..idk where it is tho... :D anyway, yeah id like to get a pic/how to on making one if possible..idk if i can, may have to take a trip to harbor frieght. :D i will take a pic of my cage today and pray that word will do me the honors of posting for me...(he posted a pic of my scoot, cover. did you check it out?). of course its not as bad as it was when i cleaned it a week or so ago..wanna try my ported oem cage, STILL HADNT TRIED IT OUT..
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..sure batdude!!
;D
..gimme a few minutes...my pic program ain't resampling them smaller....imma reboot...
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thanks word.....
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..sorry for th' delay..
..hadda go feed th' dog...
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I don't think I ever posted pics of my leak-down tester. You may be thinking of my compression tester. You can't just go buy a leak-down tester either, it's gotta be made. Actually, I take that back, Josh at SI sells them, but they aren't cheap! From the pics though, I'd say you do have a leak. It may also be coming from the cylinder base gasket. Have you tried spraying carb cleaner in that area while idling to note any changes in rpm? I'll try and get some pics posted up this weekend of the leak-down tester.
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..i thought you did post one shaka!!
..i remember it...i think...
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...said something like.."my 20 dollar home-made leak-down tester...
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hey, thanks word.....well i just sealed up the reed cage w/ the ported oem one, cleaned everything off...i tried going around the cyl. also... maybe thatll work. my pipe slings residue everywhere but thats the wrong side.. ;D ....ny cyl bolts were tight, i did check but i guess that doesnt mean squat.... yeah, i thought he did too....idk...had a couple steel plates for carb/exhaust???
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..i remember, and just saw the comp tester pic he posted...but i remember the leak-down pic too...can't find it tho..
..searched for over an hour....
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well sh**, that was a hell of a search.....maybe he will pop back in soon.. :D surely we both arent wrong??????????
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oh.. i almost forgot, several times when i have unhooked my fuel line, itll pour the gas, sometimes it wont. whats up with the diaphram under tank and vaccum???? i remember seeing about vaccum for something.. of course this p.m when i took carb off to reseal, it poured gas..
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..vaccum opens the fuel valve...
if you have a semi-collapsed vaccum hose, that manifests itself more at a high rpm, that might cause the fuel valve to close...starving your carb...
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oh im not having an issue..i had just unhooked line when i took off carb...sometimes it would pour gas till i plugged the line, sometimes it would be dry as hell..it poured today..didnt know if that should be a concern or not.
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..i would reckon that would be relative to what state the valve was in when last shutdown...
..were you revving or idling..
..just a guess...
???
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It should shut down on most at the petcock(vacuum activated) if it dont clean that petcock,could lead to other problems if sitting for any time. Fill your crank full of fuel for one.
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hey guys, yeah i was idling whhen i shut off, but i do have a habit of giving her a slight rev, then shut it off.. idk if that makes a difference or not..... oh yeah, also on the zx fan shroud..the left side has an opening, from the factory was there a cover on there??????? it looks like maybe one screwed on that side, woyldnt know why, cant get access to anything...could be a custom way to make an air intake. ;D
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Some of them have a small rubber boot with an opening to let air in or out ??? with a bend to help keep foriegn objects out.
I don't know if the xz is like the people but the petcock has a small paper filter that screws into the bottem cap I woould check this asap. Once you remove vacuum there should be no flow if you have this filter I would remove it and put one inline somewhere.(AND CLEAN)
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??? ??? ??? i must be lost, i have a inline fuel filter...... the vaccum box is a round metal cyl diaphram lookin thing... ;D one line is fuel, one is vaccum????????
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Some of them have a small rubber boot with an opening to let air in or out ??? with a bend to help keep foriegn objects out.
I was refering to the shroud you spoke of.
Does the bottem of your petcock unscrew,there is a filter in there also if it does.
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i have no clue. :D never even paid it any attention till now.....ever used permatex that doesnt harden??. this is #2.(sid mentioned#3,but nobody ever heard of 3, saw 1,2,9,96).when i put reed cage back on, its still gooey..said for these apps tho.hope it works, been raining all day..hadnt even gotten to try her out today.. ::)
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g'day thebatman, The round hole in the shroud is for a pipe that goes to the carb boot, prevent freezing in cold weather I guess. The sealant I have been using is Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket No. 3, is a non hardening sealant. I am about due for a new bottle, mine must be nearly 10 years old.
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ok, so i guess im not missing something on the shroud. :D this is permatex #2, non hardening, i should be good then.. was gonna do the base gasket just for the sake of argument, just stopped raining..
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Yeah for sure, if you suspect a leak there, seal it up. With my shroud, I just plugged th whole.
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i will have to plug that too... ;D but there is that "access panel door" on the left side that isnt there. just a square hole..no access to anything tho..need a piece of plastic to cover that, may keep a degree cooler.. :D see, i am getting faster. :D :D while i was out, took motor apart, put a bead of sealer on and put her back together, now im posting. ;D
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Ha! i need you over here so i can drink more.
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if i had a job there id dam sure move too...but i may want to drink one with ya ;D ;)
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well art, you were right.....went out and took tank off, there WAS a filter in there...pretty dam nasty too...WHOA... i kicked it to make sure she would start, cut it off...still poured gas out of fuel line when pulled off carb...... does it need to be warm/ridden for a buildup to occur????....i didnt warm it, just cranked to make sure she would.....she did.. ;D ;)
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Hate to say but your petcock is going bad might be able to disassenble and clean, havn't tried to do a kymco yet. The old honda's you could.
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It works on a bladder. Vacuum sucks it down and holds it open (the passage for your fuel). No vacuum it should remain closed. So you got crud in there or you got a hole in the bladder. Try cleaning it first sometimes a little air will help blow it out,but got to be carefull not to shred the bladder with the airpressure. Just did this to a wood chipper I was working on lucky for me it was $3 part and on the shelf at a local mower shop. Petcocks are not that cheap,maybe you could visit one of your parts bikes ;D
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Gday batman, I dont think that is for a door, it is just a cut away to allow room for the carb boot. That permatex I use, I think is what zombie called OMC Perfect seal.
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well art, i see your trying to bust a bubble early this morning.. :-\ ;D.. i do hope your wrong.... i dont think these can be disassembled, it appeared one solid piece w/ the filter in the bottom of tank..if that IS the case, i wonder how much i am being robbed on performance/fuel, if any???????.....HEY, NOW THATS AN IDEA!!.(wonder if the same petcock). ;D ::) sure would beat buying one im sure...
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Could be robbing you big time,can lead to all kinds of little problems.
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gotta ride today, now i am all paranoid bout it.. :-\ but she runs good tho??????????? (of course except for same ol takeoff)...... manual of course says nothing about it at all.......
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Run it low on gas than pull the thing out and clean it good, or check one of those parts bikes.The whole tank might interchange,cause if that parts dirty your going to need to clean the whole tank at some point ;) (sea foam!)from now on :D
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:D i remember that thread...hmm, neeeever tried it...cant get to the parts bikes today, sunday, nobody there.....shhhhhhhit, got me all worried out here.. :D
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:D i remember that thread...hmm, neeeever tried it... :D
I know you can tell by the shape of your petcock and tank ;)
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We even got word to convert ;D
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there was some gritty sh** on that long filter... petcock itself looked ok last night, buuut....looks arent everything....yeah, its done that several times over the past when i unhooked carb, just always plugged line.....guess i have to sit and wait for this issue.. :D :D :D :D you got word too huh....oh sh**, ive been made a believer several times so far.. ;) does the parts house have it??(seafoam)..just seafoam, guess i better reread the seafoam thread, if i can find it. :D
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a dumb ?... i wonder if that could have ANYTHING to do with why one day, shell start on 1st kick, some days itll take 2-3????....example, last night when i put her back together started 1st kick, just now it took 2-3 w/gas..idle slow too.usually is till warm.. well lets test ported cage anyway, may not help if vaccum off.....
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Most places carry it,I hear startron is good also for a better price,you can ride it just repair as soon as you can. What happens over time is that crap will get stuck in the carb and worst case float needle,then it will keep flowing and fill your crank with fuel. This can lead to total breakdown under the right conditions.
As long as your floats are holding you should be ok,just not perfect ::) Restricting your fuel supply in anyway makes tuneing difficult at best and can be imposible to have any consistency.
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You might get away with just running some carb cleaner through the petcock openings and a little toothpick action.
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We even got word to convert
..absowootwy!!!
..i'm sold on sea foam...
..just put a can in my daughter's gas tank...
..been working on her car all week while she's at th beach..
..(driving it to work and back too)...sshhh....
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well took a ride with the ported rsed cage..my take off was worse today, more so than normal.. :D kept struggling more so for the powerband..idk, i know i need sum 6s to try tho..top was about same about 2mph slower today...
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yep, just pulled fuel line off....still pours the gas. :'( ::)
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How's the plug look? You changed things!!! By the way constant fuel delivery is a must :D CLEAN THAT PETCOCK!!! ;D
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oh sh**...i didnt even look..was a dark brownish/rusty color yesterday...i may have to rejet again??????????? oooh crap, here we go.....
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damnitt art....i changed things alright: new symtom, ran to store, now i have a looooonnng return to idle... ??? ::) ??? ::)
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..that's ok...so do i...
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that gets on my nerves as bad as my sh**ty takeoff...... >:( :-[
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..lol..i like it...keeps me in high revs...
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HA! Thats usually an air idle adjustment,If you don't have an air leak or fuel supply problem :D ;D ;)
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so i guess its back to square 1.. ::) :'(
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...dang...where's the second square...
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i know thats right.. :D :D :D wonder that myself.. :-[
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Ha! don't worry just keep an eye on that plug!
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well.....i have vaccum.. ;D ;D took tank back off this a.m..flushed it out(filter had sedement already)..cleaned petcock, FINALLY got vaccum back..didnt push it. :D put all together, AND added my first dose of seafoam to gas tank and oil tank.. ;D ;D ;) will do a quick chop to check plug..thinking of putting a shim in needle today..(with rereading/guidance from you all. ;D ;D ;)) also gonna throw in 5.7s, think id rather be to low as to high.. ??? ;D least rpms will stay put till i can get some 6s..
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Cool 8) Don't you feel better allready :D With your porting you may be moveing more air so plug chops deffinetly
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well i ASSUME the vaccum correct..when i pulled on vaccum, could hear diaphram going up and down..when blow into fuel, its blocked..soooooo, i assume anyway. :D hadnt started it yet............i need to port the intake since im to busted these days to order nice ones.. :'( maybe porting intake/ported reed cage also w/a shim in needle...maybe thatll help some, idk... hoping the vaccum helps the takeoff issue.... thats driving me absolutely nuts there now...... >:( >:( >:( >:( ;)
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ok check this out...plz.....this has happened numerous times..when i FIRST start her up(warmed just a min),and take off she is almost there..take off better, accel better, top better..BUUUUUT..when i take a short ride and shut it off(store,chops,etc.) and start it back, (still warm anyway),the take off is worse..up to 20mph/30km take off sh** slow/sluggish then hits and gone...even put in 5.7s today(liking these sum,hills rpm better,top great,rpms better ;D )....i have experianced this tho with multiple weights....start up,go, better...short ride, shut off, start up,go worse up to 20mph
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Let me comment here for the first time now since I am an old two stroke guy. It sounds to me like you've gotten it real close to dialed in. But, Bat man, 2 strokes always have run better when cold. MUCH better. That's why most racers went to water cooling long time ago and some street 2 strokes got water cooling later. It's just the nature of the beast and you should expect a lot more pep when it's not fully warmed up. Less when it is.
Gotta work around that at all times with your tuning.
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Let me be real clear. You may already have it dialed in as good as can be. Just gotta expect that drop off when warmed.
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This is tru to some extent but think about it,when cold it is running for 10 points please!!!! diing diing diing! RiTch! so a little clue as to what you need to do ;)
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hey hoolander...thanks for the reply.... where ya been... ;D well sh**, i was hoping it wws something fixable, but at aleast its not me... ;D art, you bro, have me a bit lost i think..ill reread your post buttt.....
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The wormer your motor gets the leaner it runs so to take advantage of it I would say go to even larger JETS! ;)
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symtom:.......slowing down to turn up into steep inclined driveway, sometimes goes up fine, today, along with once or twice recently, turn in and up, rpms never catch up, bout gotta help her up the steepest part...any rpms go right out the window... am i just catching it wrong?????? i do wanna try a set of 5g in the scooter. ;D this driveway will destoy my new belt like that there........ felt like it was slipping only then, up this driveway...
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Yep don't want the belt slipping that much. Your at that point stiffer contra or lighter rollers have you tried the contra with the lighest set of rollers yet? Could be the ticket sounds like your close.
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no, the 5.7s are the lightest ones i have..wish i had more..lol..maybe i can get some ordered this week......dam, i need a tuning kit........
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good title for a thread...dont ya think???? well, evidently i have issues, changed ALL back to before, took off awhile ago, dieing out STILL... thought it was gonna idle but she died, took about 10min and she started back, was able to limp her home...i was wot again when this happened, i had went around curve, she cut out/sputtered so i wot around the rest of curve, down the hill toward the end of the rd..never even made it to the end.(3/4 mi from here)...... ANY IDEAS on w.t.f. is happening here, somebody, anybody??????????????????? got a problem some where that wasnt there before.........
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Crap in the carb, a bit of a pain but time to go through and clean everything, maybe seafoam is the link.
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NObody????????? anybody?????????? bueler??? bueler??? :-\ :-\ need my baby back. :'( :'( :'( :'(
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hey sid, thanks for the reply.....i rode her again to the store..she ran fine(seemed too anyway), only went UP TO 3/4 throttle... if pilot was clogged, seems would do at idle?????? i did put seafoam in, the first time to..oil tank AND gas.. i thought this was suppose to be good sh**. ??? :-\ :D cant ride at that pissy ass 1/2-3/4 throttle..i got 35 miles to asheville, ONE WAY... this is crazy..NEVER happened before seafoam and vaccum corrected....????????????????
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??
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A-FKN-MEN @ word...........fk man, this blows BIG pe-tars.. :D ... manual says squat.......
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A-FKN-MEN @ word...........
..hippie grass.....helps...
:o
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what chu talking bout willis???? :D :D :D ....psst..i am a believer. :D :D 8)
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Have you looked at the actual spark is it constant and bright blue,You need good spark,fuel and air to run if you have all three somthing else is going on.
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no..i havent actually taken out plug..i figured since she started right off, ONLY is happening at wot, that spark was ok............ could the petxock shut down/stop working at wot, but ok other times?????????...surely it couldnt stop vaccum just bexause wot??
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I dont think you should have seafoam in your oil. Drain it and fill with fresh oil and run that through, it may not be the problem, but I think it might be.
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I dont think you should have seafoam in your oil
..oh..i missed that...yeah, what sid said.....
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Ya not sure on that one,can run in 4t oil but never ran in 2t oil. You wanted to get rid of that bel rey anyhow ;)
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HOLY OILY BREAKDOWN BATMAN... say what??? no seafoam in oil tank????....bottle said it could be, said for everything. :D only put 1-2oz. in the tank..well maybe 2... surely not that??????
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Ha! Not sure great for all other apps. Some oils don't mix well with anything else. Just a thought. Read the label again. I would put it in a 4t anyday just never did it in a 2t :-\ just the gas tank ;)
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i got the bottle in hand, says all 2,4cycle engines, add to crankcase oil, add to gas, shoot in carb, when used in 2-4t engines...could be a old ass bottle, happened to find 2 in the shop.....hmmmmm????????? dam, i wonder....but dam, how?????
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...does it say to add to two-cycle oil??
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yeah, i try to take a pic
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i sent a pic of the bottle word...idk why....same as you maybe? it says when added to crankcase oil......maybe not a 2t crankcase..says 2-4t engines, maybe it only talks about gas for small engines...idk, fk, wouldnt that suck???... be crazy tho........
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..i cdn read the first pic...
..but still, i don't think you wanna put it in ur 2t oil...
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Ya thats the way i was looking at it,best delivery through your fuel to get to crank. It will clean all it comes in contact with. Old 4 stroke motors i would add to oil and fuel with the intention of changing oil soon after.
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..agreed........
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When you put in in your fuel tank it is a measured amount, with your 2stroke oil it varies with your throttle position. I reckon give it a go.
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yeah. sorry word...phone dont seem to have a good focus. ::) so the front looks like the same stuff tho, correct???.......man, wouldnt that be some sh**??????? if having seafoam in oil is the problem, thatd be great tho for sure.....its getting drained this a.m......maybe i fkd up there, huh....i was starting to wonder why she was smoking now....hmmm maybe my piston, pipe are clean now... :D
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Drain dat bitch. Good luck, fingers crossed.
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Yep, good title, your ZX50 issues you a lot of challenges.
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hey sid, thanks man..my fingers will be crossed also... ;D amen there bro..always givin me a issue...she could be telling me to stop modding. :D ::)
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I like to think of gt as she is keeping you well excercised. When you get her going good again you will appreciate it that little bit more. Mine still has more to give but will just have to wait until I have more money to spend on her. Though having said that, I will start back on the free and cheap stuff tomorrow and monday.
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yeah, she dam sure trys to keep me in practice.......thats what i as trying.....the free and cheap stuff!!!!!!.... now look at me :'( guess i need a slightly bigger carb before i can go on...maybe....if oil is problem, ported reed cage will get tried once more. ;D i could tell a bit of difference now that oem back in right now.... :'( :P yeah., cash is becoming an issue with tunning... cost gets higher for sure.......... >:( where the cheap priced parts.. :D
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Careful, I tried cheap stuff, while it has been heart breaking frustration, it has also been a lot of fun learning. My cheap air filter decided to take a walk, now I gotta buy another, not so cheap after all. :)
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i had meant like a shim, ported cage, port the intake...that cheap stuff.. :D sh**, i still wonder if our variator isnt a issue with its heavy ass ......it was cheap...id swear it is..still cant get takeoff....
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Yeah, I think your ported cage is good, just make sure it is sealed. With the var. I am just going to use it for now, will go to 7 g rollers tomorrow and will look for 2000 fly springs to get more revs before take off. If I blow the clutch, I will be sure to let you know. :)
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Send me a pic of the top of your carb. I can send ya a people 50 one for cheap if it will work. The top throttle holder is missing had cut it off to adapt to my arrache so may not be a straight bolt on.
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Hey, thebatman, how did you go with the oil? Haven't heard yet, waiting for ya. I had mine apart today and changed the rollers, that variator isn't heavy at all. I finally put the 7's back in, massive increase in top. :)
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Hey, batman, here is a link for the 4 valve reed that I am using. I think this is the wrong thread, but you will get it anyway. :)
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Okay, here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-DIO-Racing-Intake-Power-intake-kit-4-valves-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cf13d2338QQitemZ330464830264QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-DIO-Racing-Intake-Power-intake-kit-4-valves-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4cf13d2338QQitemZ330464830264QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
I think zombie may be haunting the hallowed halls of kymcoforum. :)
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And what did he do to the batman!!! Someone lose there phone at the show?
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I reckon he is still trying to find his way home.
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;D ;D ;D HOLY HOMECOMING BATMAN.... DUDE, YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF JUST HOW RIGHT YOU ARE!!!!!!. man, left for the show sat afternnon, got there later than I wanted. ;D the dude thats with me left id in car so they wouldnt sell him beer, then he saw me talking to my ex(said he figured i was gonna leave with her), he got pissed AND BAILED B4 THE SHOW WAS OVER!!!. left me in the middle of charlotte, tried calling ex there for a ride, PHONE DIES. i walked about 18miles to the motel room,hes there, I FKN BLANK!!. i proceed to light into his ass, next door called security, his face, my hand is cut, im bleeding like a stuck pig, i walk out back door and proceed to hit interstate walking..FINALLY found a phone at DUMPY motel($65),couldnt use fone,local only,cn a cell fone,gave him 10 to use it, FINALLY got some fam on phone and finally made it home sun night. show was great tho, openers sucked but i was drinking lookin at ALL THOSE SEXY ASS WOMAN. ;D got drunk as fk, was great till the end >:( that friendship is DEAD!
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and we finally have an update:.. FINALLY got sone oil, brought me the dam belray tho >:( drained out tank, refilled, flooded carb out i guess, changed plug, fired up, went down rd, tried to get her hot, NEVER DIED. ::) ::) i just be dam.... imma go check plug to make sure jetting ok and see if she runs w/o dying out still and then i guess imma feel stupid. ::) :-\ i may have just comtaminated oil, back to square 1 for some dam oil. ::) :'( do have set of gaskets coming for reed cage (then i have a template to cut more ;D).... wonder NOW, if i could put ported cage back on(port intake a touch at that time), and put my 5.7g back in????????... had to put 6.5 back in today...hadnt gotten o ride in about a week or so, maybe i shoukd just drop it for a day or 2. :D
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Damn dude .Sounds like some of my early days! To old for that anymore. Thats one cool thing about portland lots a small venues and never more than a $20 cab ride from home!
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sounds like my early days too... :D :D hadnt went off in a few yrs., had been doing good till then :D
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HOLY HOMECOMING BATMAN
..wow...reminds me of the time i got left in Spartanburg SC...had to hitch..(walk mostly) all the way back to Charlotte NC...up interstate 85..in 90 degree weather with 14 bucks in my pocket...
..a trucker picked me up near charlotte and dropped me off at the highway 220 exit in Greensboro...where i again walked to the randolph county line...
..persuaded a Randolph county sherriff to take me home from there..
..about 14 hours total..
..i slept for 22 hours following...
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i hear ya there word, that way sucked ass........... NEW UPDATE:::: THAT OIL WASNT IT!!!!. went to do plug chop, rode her around to make sure she was warm enough, came back to end of rd, died when i let off throttle. >:( >:( >:( >:( :'( :'( started back rode a mile or two, died, wouldnt start for about 5 min. started, died again wot, came up drive wot with nrakes on, died as soon as i got to the top..... well THIS ISSUE has EVERYBODY stumped....evven any/all local shops have no idea..oh, well one shop said my belt was shot...W.T.F????????? UHHHHHH, NO!!.....well, in the middle of the countryside, no scooter
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That may be your stator going out. Got to check for spark!!! Thats the way mine started and finally died. Could be coil or plug cap also.
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..lol..well, we all know it ain't your belt, so don't go back to THAT shop...
:-\
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;) :D :D :D i know thats right.....he was a tech at the dealer here too...... well art, this stator is only about a yr old.(changed it before when i had no lights)... the plug cap is only about 2 mths old... the spark looked ok to me..it wws hard to start today but i figured since it sat for so long, changing oil...but even just now, she didnt want to start. came in cuz she didnt. she had started easy earlier today tho, just one kick several times......what about you talking about play at the crank shaft????....today, she seemed ok UNTILL she was real warm then she started acting up again...
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talking about play at the crank shaft
..my crankshaft on my a50 has always, since the first time i was in my cvt, moved in and out, laterally, about 3 mm.....
..the ppl's crank does not move at all...
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mine does seem to move but only about 1/2-1mm.... this is just fkn me up, i seem to be lost.....unless scotty was right by saying: "by fixing the petcocks vaccum, you may have actually "broke" it"???????????? how can you break something by fixing it????????. i have tried to spray w/carb cleaner everywhere, didnt seem to mess rpms up any.....
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I have slight up and down movement on the people 50(not good!) On the s200 there is a bit of in and out no up and down. That is how my stator acted sit over night and would fire right up try to make it around the block after wormed up and would start acting up limp it home turn off no start till next day. while its not starting pop the plug cap throw another plug in it to test for spark.
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..i just measured the crank's lateral movement...
..it's more like 1.1mm....
..no up and down at all...
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Yep up and down is not good. The in and out seems to be normal on the 4t. I'm wondering if hammering the veriator on and off a few thousand times has anything to do with it ;D
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I'm wondering if hammering the veriator on and off a few thousand times has anything to do with it
..i clamp my drive face with a pair of "Vise_Grip" vise-clamps, lodge it against my boot and remove the nut with a 17mm socket on a 3/8" drive S&K ratchet...
..never has a power tool touched my scoot...
..never will...
;)
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..can't do that with the people...the drive face is flush with the casing...so i have a special screwdriver that i lodge between the drive face's teeth and the casing...
..use the same ratchet and socket to work th' nut...
..yup..still no power tools...
;D
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Clutch holder, 17mm socket on slide bar, no need for belting.
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Some days I was poping it on and off 10 times an hour. You could hear the motor resignate almost like a fine crystal glass. I remember thinking that might not be good for all that was attached. Hmmm ;D
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not good for a zx or period???? dont tell me this crap, thats MAJOR sh**..... what yall do, go research somewhere just then? ;D i have taken variator off a 1000 times for sure, usually use my pissy ass portable air compresser...surely thats not MY problem with her. THAT WOULD WAAAY FREAKN BLOW!!!... i really cant afford to play the guessing game at this point, this week, or next week. ::) :-\ >:( i always hated playing the guessing game... imma go out right now and check spark in the dark....well the manual says squat anywhere, does say the bearing can have what looks like up to 1mm either way, up,down or in,out..hmm(id have to measure the manual lines. ;D ), trouble shooting is crap in it... ;D i just looked at plug with porch light on, its pretty and blue to me.. :-\ ;D :-\
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everytime i DONT TIGHTEN the piss out of that nut, minutes after i take off the drive face is rubbing the kick ratchet, so i have to PUSH back.
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This is out of my depth, but, if the seals are worn, once you get the engine running, it should stay running, starting would be the problem?
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The test i'm talking about is when not starting(on the plug) It was not constant for me until dead. If you have spark now will it start?
Don't worry about the crank Just thinking outloud ;) my bike still runs I just can't go 100 miles an hour the way it is ;D
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everytime i DONT TIGHTEN the piss out of that nut
..i tighten the piss outta it with th ratchet...
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I just can't go 100 miles an hour the way it is
..dammit..me neither....
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I can, just not on my scooter. ;)
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Maybe my goal is unrealistic :D but damn i know i was 3/4 of the way there ;)
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Yeah, but the higher you go, the harder each small increase gets.
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..dunno if it's so unrealistic or not...maybe, but 80 is definately obtainable....
..i have a stock 01 that hit 65+ out of th box with just an air filter and a jet..
...i mean.....
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Yep all looked to be on track than one thing after another.But the dieing thing and the play in the crank showed up around the same time, Once i really pushed it it got worse. So not going to push this one any further with out a new crank, bearings and seals. I think the rest is in line for a good show though.
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hey art, to answer your ?....went out, spark pretty and blue(checked again),put plug in, no start...finally started after about 25 kicks.....hmmm??, youd think fuel?? maybe, i guess. :D :-\
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What im trying to say is it's intermitent so do not pull the plug when it's happening,just the cap and put another plug in to the end of the cap at that moment to guage your spark.
If you have spark at that time then you need to test for fuel. Pull your airbox off and give it a shot of fuel through your carb if it fires right up than you have a fuel issue. from there its vacuum or its blockage. as it seems you have all ready tested for air leaks. It's back to basics. Must have spark,fuel and air to run. If you are missing anyone of these it's no go
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G'day batman, I am clutching at straws here, but, it may be worth a try. In remembering one of zombie's posts, he spoke of the cdi derestriction being a short, and in running in that rev range you risk burning out the cdi. If you are running your stock one with the rev limiter bridge in place, I wonder if it would be worth removing it for a test run, just to see what happens. I realise it may well be something else but as it costs no money it may be worth trying. If it doesn't change, at least you haven't spent any money and you can rule that out as a possible cause. as I said, it may not be it, but maybe worth a try, just thinking.
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good morning sid....it does seem to jar my memory about that...just undo the splice????, how do you know???? if she goes back to 34 mph it still works???....
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I was thinking of seeing how she runs at wot over a distance, if it is good, problem found, if not, no money spent and search goes on. I am just suspect about the cdi with this type derestriction. This must be frustrating for you being your only transport.
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hey sid, thanks man...yeah, this is real frustrating,so dam far back in the country now, i am fairly styck, i HATE asking ppl for help to get around, makes me feel like a bum or something and i finally wised up not to drive my vehicle untill "they" say i can. ;D (many times i get close to saying fk it and drive any dam way but that could lead to 3-5yrs in prison for ME, just for sum driving..uhh no!! unless for my mama or my daughter!!!.. well, i just tried to start her up....FIRST KICK, smooth as silk....last night it took at least 25 kicks...so now you and art may be one to something i wonder.....electrical...and of course i am dumb when it comes to using those meters to test currents...have a cheap one but all those settings.. ::) :D maybe i should try that out, i have a solder gun to redo the splice back... going 34 again is NOT in my wish list. :D :D :D :D
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Can you source another cdi? Trying to test it would mean getting it to the point of failure and then pull the scoot apart to get to it.
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3-5yrs in prison for ME, just for sum driving
..welcome to north carolina!!..
..annd don't drink and drive, huh?..
..i was looking at 18 months....
..10 months done with all that now, and still i scoot....
;)
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well i have yet gotten to find my problem, finally was busy this week, plus trying to get all my daughters b day ready...i did get a set of reed gaskets and a petcock yesterday..tried to see if i could tell a difference between the 2, not sure either.. ;D my old diapham is louder for sure..idk..here comes the guessing game men.. :D ::) :'(
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..if i were to even have a .08 BAC ..(1.5 beers).. and get stopped and checked..
..3 years would be coming for me..from that point...
..so, i no longer drink and drive..or, scoot, i should say...
:-\
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yeah, n.c has way cracked down...they frown on that sh** now......yeah, said id get the habitual misdemeaner for driving on revoked....fk that..i better hurt somebody for that much time.. ;D oh well, march is coming but i am scared as sh** about getting them back...sounds crazy i know!!!.....just gotta remember when.. ;) i may be like a binge drinker with license. :D :o
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..th' drink of champions...
..and legal scooter riders in north carolina!!
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Ha! no rum in that one :P Yep learned my lesson years ago(sorta) but it's not worth it. This was back when they just started cracking down. Today it would have put me out of cammision,with fines and restrictions! plus not to fond of jail. No d. tank in the county i was in,straight into a 8 man cell block over a loooong weakend and a paper work screw up with a couple of convitad murderers on the way to fed. prison(woo hoo not!). One week enouph for me.
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.. gaol always sucks, i reckon....
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Wordslinger, you surprise me. :)
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Wordslinger, you surprise me.
..huh??..what??..how??
???
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nice scoot word....btw, pepsi is better. :D :D went on 1 trail run, she didnt die. gonna go on another in a few. i sure could use that blessin this a.m. ;D ;)
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How are you going with it batman? Have you made any more changes to see what the problem was?
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well, im trying to mess with it now...i put the brand new petcock on and she hasnt died yet..got her real good and warm, even done a few plug chops so far, cant get a ring on there, idk whats the deal there, gonna try once more..NOW, she hasnt died BUT when i took apart to jet, free flowin fuel again, WITH THIS NEW DAM THING...so thats no vaccum, its new, and not dying.. so im kindof lost on this still but imma go rejet again..i should be at the same size as before..idk. can ya explain that one??? ??? ::) :-\
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now i must have an issue elsewhere ir something..........i have jetted 3 times, i know its bigger than before all this started and it STILL SHOWING A LEAN PLUG....W.T.F???????.. i have sprayed carb cleaner everywhere around all times today too...never a miss.....guess i shoulda put this in the carb thread huh?????... ::)
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what up fellas?..i feel like sid, this dam thread just wont die. ;D WELL BOYS: I SHALL BOW DOWN...YET AGAIN!!!!.....i did find an air leak today, head gasket... i am right now, have motor tore apart. the head looks ok, i sprayed it and bam, died right there..have new gasket for it and reed cage gasket.....but i took off my cyl and my piston is looking a tad rough on one side, the left???? looks burnt w/carbon. why the left an not the whole thing?. i guess that will be my next order then huh?. ::) :'( anyway, i couldnt tell the gasket had even blown when lookin at it. it even looks ok.. i also have a fkn crack in my pipe, right past the header bend. w.i.t.h would crack a pipe?????.....i have evidently gotten rid of more carbon. my exhaust port, could not stick pinky in, now index finger can touch piston????. i had thought that was oem, not buildup :o :o ::) i even have a pic, it had a half moon shape, fk my sh** was clogged worse than even i thought.
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..blown head gasket and a cracked pipe.......
..reckon that'd be a leak...dang...well you know where you are now!!
;)
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my luck sucks ass!!..(thank god for hippie food :D ;))... well i sure hope this helps, maybe i will back on track...i want to reinstall the ported reed cage....any idea on the piston??...id love to see how big your intake opening is on either of your scoots..arent the oem carbs on your scoots a 16mm???
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Make sure you seal that base gasket. How do the transfer ports look? It is a relief to see you found the problem, as wordslinger said, you know where youre at.
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those ports seem to still look new ish. ;D i will double check. gonna try again on making a port map, failed last time. i wish i could measure 1mm to heighten my ex.port. ::) too scared for that techy stuff w/only the one cyl. ;) man, i hope this works, i had thrown the fixed oem pipe on and dam i missed the noise. :D i am gonna try it tomorrow tho, it may not be bad, except for the weight. still gotta put this back together tonight. ;D
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..take ur time dude...you'll get it..
..you found your problem!!!
..that's awesome!!!
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BAM!!!... i have made my 1st port map. ;D ;D ::) ...dam, they are tiny lil things too. :D
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Cool, they are fiddly little things to make. See mine, pretty messy.
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naturally i havent actually measured it yet. ;D .....im still putting it back together. wish i had a hone to clean up the cyl. borrowed one but to big.. wont get my pipe back till tomorrow so i drilled 5 3/8 holes in my oem pipe(no cat.converter). at least i can tryvit anyway. want to put cage on but i guess id better wait till i make sure she normal again. :D
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Glad to hear you found your leak! Should make tuning a bit easier now! ;)
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:o WHOA.......good to see you survived earl dude...maaaaaan, i could use your input, we sure miss your ass around here...well sid and i fo so... thanks on the leak, i hope it helps buuuuuuut a few things havent ever changed tho, that drive me nuts. ::) ;)
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Cool! When things are running right it makes tuning the rest alot easyer :D
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well i had a crack in my exhauat pipe, so i had to reinstall my modded oem pipe..out on sone chops today, the oem pipe seems to compete with technigas pipe. w.t.h?????..alot heavier than the rs pipe for sure. i am actually thinking of running this pipe a day or 2. unless i am crazy, i would dam near swear my take off is a cockhair better with the oem pipe. how could that even be possible??. unless the air leak gone and i JUST THINK takeoff is any better. :D ;D i know a few of you are still running the oem pipe...when i reinstall my rs pipe, will it lean carb out any???..i have room to play if it does. ;D ;) i know the oem pipe is SEVERAL decibels quiter than my rs pipe even with the mods on it...thats crazy right there.....
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You fixed the air leak, that will give you better running, when you get your rs back you will be able to see if there is any difference.
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i just picked it up..my rs pipe.. yeah, i was wondering if this oem pipe or being on the ritcher side, she seems to be apporx. 2-3mph slower..didnt know if pipe, jet, was the culprit
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If it aint broke don't fix it :D The shim is for a little more gas just off idle. Get things back to what was working best last time it was up and running. Ride for awhile before changing anything and just one change at a time.
Running a little ritch is good compared to the bone white plug chops you were getting ;) The pipe will probably change things a bit again
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what up??.. i have been measuring my very 1st port map. :D ::) anyway, i have a real dumb ass ? for somebody... the port inline with the exhaust port would be ???.(the closest in size to exhaust port).the boost?. the pr of smaller ports to the side are ??.. transfer???... i have some small ass #s going on too. :D dam ports are tiny on mine. :'( ::) hey art, i done passed that again. :D i ported the intake some today.. :D ;D got the ported cage AND intake on right now with my ritcher plug. ;D 8) ::)
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Nice! take note if thing go tits up again ,you'll know what you did last. The shimm thing was for a little more on take off,may not be a factor now with the other mods.
The ports are over my head,the jist i get is you want to match them the best you can and open the exhaust a bit to let things flow out of that jug ;)
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yeah, i think today was a blessin in MY tunning world.. :D ....i took a pic of my cap on the carb, if it will fit, I WANT IT....maybe word could post in carb thread for me...idk??.
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Cool still got your info,Ill try to grt a pic up tomorrow for you to look at. (Too buzzed tonight ;) )
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i emailed word the 2 pics i took of the cap...do wonder since ones a 14, that the cap would be smaller, buuut, i could use it for the parts scooters.....if i ever get it here, or just get the dam things.. :D im out, catch you tomorrow......
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..th bat-pics...
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Woo hoo It looks right.The blow up pics go to hell :D I'll send ya something with a measurment tommorow
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thanks word.....i tried to get a close up in the dark......dam shame, my air filter is bigger than my carb!!!!. ::) :'( :D its true......
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heres a pic
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It's rouphly 15/16 of an inch(the cap opening). The carb is a keihn pb It will run about $35 Total if you want it.
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hey art, i just measured mine...mine is 11/16in...(according to tape measure).. .665in (according to calipers).........so it may not be looking good.. >:( it came off a ppl right???...hmmmm..
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Mate, take the carb, put your cable through the cap, make sure it is sealed and Bob's your uncle.
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make sure it is sealed and Bob's your uncle
???
..what does that meeannn.....
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i was just wondering the same thing..... uncle bob, where ya been??? ??? ??? :D :D :D
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Bobs your uncle means every thing will be ok.
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..well i be damn....
..SEE!!..we're always learning...SOMETHING!!
:o
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And never had so much fun doing it. Learning.
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... ;) ...
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well hell......we have alot of slangs here but i do believe thats a new one on me. yep, always learning...... SOMETHING!.. ;)
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Right up there with the pot full of necks.
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pot full of necks.
..dammit sid......
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that would be.....its on...like a pot of neckbone... :D :D ;)
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its on...like a pot of neckbone
..lol..that..i got!!..
..didn't make th connection...lol..
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Sorry, I muffed that one up, I still like it.
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..it's okay sid...
..you ain't from around here...
:D
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yep...its alllllll good sid..maybe we can teach each other some slang terms.. :D :D ;)
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Thats the problem sid I had to mangle the cap to get the cable out to swap carbs on my b. bore scoot. It did come off the 2002 people I a'm measuring to the outside threads don't know if that makes a difference and don't know the price of a cap. I think you get it with the throttle cable. That is quite a defference. I may have a complete setup from an aero 80cc If this won't work for you.
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Hope you can find one. Hey, art, would you be able to have a look at a ppl cdi and see where the wires go for me please? If so, could you post it in my ZX50 thread please. I think the one the fella sent might be the wrong one.
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Art, thebatman was saying he thinks the zx inlet ports might be smaller, does it look like it to you? What size piston in the ppl50?
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Ha! didn't think that would be a problem,I was worried about the cap not working. I'll be back with some pics for ya.
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Here's the intake side This is center to center on the mounts and the opening is just a hair under 11/16
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that looks similar for sure..the bowl is different tho....
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As long as it fits It should be fine. The cap was what i was concierned about.
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Just check the cap size.
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measuring the cap..i.d is .670in..just under 11/16..o.d is .815in.. 13/16... on the rollers, belt tug/jerking needs lighter....slippage needs heavier correct???????.....
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I dont know anything about belt tug, I thougt it was from slipping.
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That is about right bat unless springs are way off that should work. I re measurd the carb cap it too should work for you . The 15/16 I gave you was from outer thread to outer thread and a little generious to give you an idea
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hmmm....i did try to measure the inside threads...may just work art...
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i just thought.....i never asked but one leak was my head gasket..what could cause the gasket to blow???... everything??. :D
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what up fellas? sorry i not been here... gave some a break tho i guess. :D anyway, remember a few weeks ago i had a crack in my pipe?? well it got fixed, looked yesterday cause she seemed to be chockin somewhere... i bought a filter and took out packing in pipe just to see.... MY DAM PIPE IS CRACKED AGAIN IN THE SAME DAM SPOT!!!!!!!!!! now the ? is:........ HOW? sh**ty welds??? or a techy stuff with the soundwaves,etc..?? OR is being on the light mix ring STILL TO LEAN for the pipe and just getting hot??? was fine, all was well, started losing rpms uphill, real sluggish, cleaned var,rollers. still done it. removed packing in pipe, saw the crack.................. AND A GOOD? FOR YA; HOW IN THE HELL CAN YOUR PIPE GET QUIETER WHEN YOU REMOVE THE PACKIN??? SHOULDNT IT GET LOUDER???
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Hey, Batman. The thin steel gets so hot when it's welded that it gets brittle all around the new weld. It'll keep happening. I'll bet if you look close, the new crack is not exactly on the weld but right next to it. Only real solution is to come up with rubber mounts or something to dampen vibration. And even then might still have to get new pipe. . . >:( Maybe try to find one made of thicker steel.
Maybe a welder who knows how to keep things cool with a cooling gas during weld could prevent that.
Maybe got louder with packing cause exaust was being more forced out of crack?
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??? Forgot which pipe your running. The 4t's are usually pretty strong. Maybe try a sleeve or patch over the weak link.
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..i'm a fairly decent welder...and i had a fit re-welding my muffler back together after i cut it open that time...
..i used .030" stainless wire...which was too big, but all we use..
..i couldn't imagine trying to weld the pipe....
:-\
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where did you get the intake manifold and the boyesen reeds? Also, do you have a part # for the gears? Ive been trying to find gears for a while now.
Thanks
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..most Honda shops carry Boysen...
..i think art has a link to a site where you can get blanks, then cut and cure them...
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Here's one http://www.sip-scootershop.com/Products/P2130602/Reedvalve+plate+POLINI+04mm.aspx (http://www.sip-scootershop.com/Products/P2130602/Reedvalve+plate+POLINI+04mm.aspx)
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and another http://kymcoforum.com/index.php?action=post;topic=1702.930;num_replies=931 (http://kymcoforum.com/index.php?action=post;topic=1702.930;num_replies=931) . I forgot where i got the intake for the people 50 but ordered one for an s9 lc I think it will fit havn't tried it yet. Try here http://www.mhr-usa.com/intakes/manifolds/motorio-intake-manifolds-for-kymco.html (http://www.mhr-usa.com/intakes/manifolds/motorio-intake-manifolds-for-kymco.html)
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.....>>>??!!....holy sh** batman!! where are you....!!??<<<.......
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I think he has got his scoot running well and is out riding, the long way home. ;)
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Had some parts he wanted and never got any confirmation. Been awhile.
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im back. im back.... :D :D ;) my phone died on me andvthevloaner was ANTIQUE AS HELL. finally got a good loaner today....
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Welcome back, welcome back, welcome baack.
How's your scoot goin'?
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well i have yet to get my pipe fixed so i am running a modded oem pipe..it slows me by 4MPH, and seems to have increased my travel time again.. who said those pipes dont work....BOLOGNA!!!!!!!!!....so the scoots a tad rich running these days but otherwise she seems to be doing good....... OH YEAH...... i had my cover off, my belt IS NOT riding to the edge of the var anymore...... is that from a worn main spring????.....
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That would be too tight main spring or too light rollers. Maybe you are not getting high revs with oem pipe.
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i had thought about the pipe being the reason why it isnt now.. i am trying some 5g rollers now. cant remember if it done it with my regular pipe just before. take off still sucks with 5s,5.5s,4.5s also....was told a 50cc just doesnt have any power for takeoffs at all...
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I can see that about 50cc, but you can still work with what you have got. If you go lighter you will lose top and with your current exhaust, if you are not getting the same revs, that will make it worse. Heavier rollers, get your top, lose bottom. Sux. Has your take off changed with putting that pipe back on?
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take off has pretty much ALWAYS been crappy.. :D seems not to have changed with either pipe. top is lower with the modded oem pipe but at least i have one to use. ;) ... the 5g seem better than the 5.5s i had and top seems the same. have a set of 5.1s coming IF they ever get here.. 4.7 may be in order when i get my next pipe back on. ;) i have missed my forum... ;D ;) ::)
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Hey, bat! Welcome back!!! :)
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Yeah, welcome back! Missed the bat!
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Got a spare drive boss?
Maybe get 1.5mm cut off the end, might give more closure to get your top back. I said spare because I dont know if it will work.
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what up?? thanks rihanna and hoo...yeah, i had been having fits lately w/o my phone to hang here.. ::) guess that goes back to that exciting life. :D >:( hey sid, hadnt never thought about that...my belt used to ride all the way to the edge of the var. that just started recently sometime... i have seen a trick with shims/washers for the var.....same dia. as the boss. if put in FRONT of var. gives take off but will take away top. if put BEHIND var. gives more top cause it moves the whole setup outward.. supposedly this works....oh yeah, and BBs under the contra for a bit longer rpm stay...?????????? have yet to try either yet. ::) tho i am working on a "forced air induction" for my fan shroud..it came off a chevy blazer. :D ;) free mod, keep the engine a tad cooler... want to cut belt cover but sceeered at this time.. ::) dont want to screw up my polish job. ;D
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That shim behind the variator sounds good, just make sure it doesnt push the belt too faqt out of alignment. Give it a go, and post results, of course.
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now that i have another phone that will hit the forum, maybe i can try that now, ......in case i need help. ;)
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Coke cans, cut a few and add one or two at a time and see how you go.
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what up fellas?... went out today and installed my "forced air" induction. painted it gm lt blue.(figured wth since it came off a chevy :D). took a few pics but of course im on my phone. i lost ALL my dam #s also. :o >:( that way blows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. pics too, it was completely wiped out!!. >:( i also installed some "bearrings"(b.bs) under my main spring. it did seem to help but of course my top was dead by about 5 mph w/5g rollers, gonna try some 6s,6.5s before i take the bearrings back out, to see if my top comes back. ;)... thats 2 free mods. :D 8) figure maybe the fresh air will keep engine a bit cooler,easier. ::) whether or not it even makes a difference is unknown.
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Hi, bat. Glad to see you're making progress there...AND you gots yer phone back. YEAHHHH!!! ;D
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hey rianna... thank you, i hate i lost my sh** tho, oh well, shoulda had it backed up. :D ;) yeah, imma trying to make some progress on the scooter, want so many things for it too.... ::) ;D
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You will get there, bat. You already moddin' pipes, playin' with bearings and drillin' jets...lol...all I've managed to do so far is break a few tools. :D
Man, sorry about them phone #'s and all. I know how that is. Hate when that happens!!!
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yeah, but your scoot should be faster than mine is now.. >:( i gotta play catch up for awhile, since i had/have the slowest kymco made. ::) (it is true,the zx is the smallest,slowest). but i have learned much here from all these guys and a few still mia for MONTHS now. >:( :'( i have saved a bunch of cash doing it myself too. ;) :D
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Yes, save that cash! 8) That's the way to do it, bat. Yeah, these folks on here are great. And hey, I've only had mine up to 32 so don't feel like your the only one. ;D
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HOLY SPEED BREAKER BATMAN!! :o 32???? on a ag? mine did 34 wot,downhill when i started. with my next pipe on i CAN hit 53 now, not always tho. ;D ::)
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53!! WooHooo...I'm gonna be like you when I grow up!! lmao
Yeah, I just don't have any open roads close by and now I'm waiting 'til I get the front brake fixed. I'm dying to know how fast, though.
Your ZX got it goin' on hittin' 53, bat!!!
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well i have a small update........ i have a new FREE mod to share.. i took out my clutch and drilled 3 3/16in holes. 1 in each clutch shoe... it gave me more rpm (no tach, assume about 1000-1300)at takeoff. thought of going up to a 3/8in hole. make her engage at about 4500-5000rpm. really get the rpms up there... seems to be a good,quick, cheap mod to help you out on extra rpm. ;) i also was seeming to have issues with my torque driver... i removed it from the clutch, disassembled it and cleaned, regreased the inside. i can definately tell a difference now. that helped. idk how many ppl look over this but the shifting pattern is smoother, better.. i recommend this for all t.ds. i know the zx. figured i would also put that part in a thread in the zx board...nice improvement ladies and gentlemen..
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...that makes sense...anytime you can "lighten th' load", your scoot will benefit..
..may require further cvt tuning after lightening...but hey!....
;D
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those dam cvts are ALWAYS needing tunning. :D i am close but i guess its a zx soooo.. it gets better every time.. ;D :D do need a set of 5s. loose a bit of rpms uphill still. 4.5 seems to rev a tad high, top around the same tho
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...yeah, you're tuning to a hilly terrain...
..you need that initial take-off but good sustained low-end torque as well..
..that's a fine line to tune to, without losing top speed....
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i believe ya there... :D i still wonder about my ebay variator.. ::) i do have a luxury toy coming.. i FINALLY have a tach ordered.. one from trailtech, the one shaka praised, so ill find out soon.. i am excited about finally seeing my rpms...
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That thing looked cool, bat. I bet you're gonna love it!!
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oh i hope so.. i even asked the guy about the glitch they had(the one shaka had anyway), said that was corrected then..
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..where the hell is shaka?!...
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i think they left us..... :-\ :-\ :'( :'(
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Did anyone ever try to send them an email? I would, but they don't know me... :D
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shaka got off his crap and started school i know.. z was working...idk.. i havent tried.. it was tried awhile back, z finally answered then.