KymcoForum.com
Scooters - 50cc => Super 8 => Topic started by: tbrdmann on November 15, 2008, 06:53:54 PM
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Anyone know of a resource with specific instructions on how to derestrict
the Kymco Super 8, 50cc?
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I know resource in Russian, they have a lot of useful info but nearly of no use for english-speaking audience.
Yury
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I assume that the Super 8 is much like the People S 50 and the Agility 50. I'll look into this and see what I can find, but it's probably just changing the drive boss, modifying the CDI and changing the main jet. I think the People S 50 came with a needle too, but can't remember for sure.
~Josh
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I assume that the Super 8 is much like the People S 50 and the Agility 50.
Mostly, yes. I do not know of other restrictors in S8 besides main jet, pink wire on CDI and drive boss.
Yury
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For information, I recently bought a super 8 50. I spoke to UK distributors about restriction methods on this bike and in particular the CDi portion. The super 8 50 has all three restriction methods in place from new here in the UK. The variator boss and carb main jet have been discussed in detail in Chinese Scooter Forum so I wont go over those again. The problem I had was that the CDi on the super 8 50 has 8 (eight) wires not 6 and none of them are "PINK"! Anyway, for anyone wanting to do the de restriction on the CDi what you need to do is open the battery compartment in the footwell (2 phillips screws) and locate the CDi box at the back of the battery. disconnect the multi plug from the box and then carefully strip back the insulation tape around the 8 wires. Then locate the wire that is VIOLET with RED tracer, You will notice there are two, either will do. Ensure you cut it and leave it in such a way as to be able to rejoin it at a later date should it be necessary. This removes the rev limiter circuit on the bike. This on its own gave me 40mph on the flat. PLEASE NOTE: I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY IF YOU DECIDE TO DO THIS MODIFICATION TO YOUR BIKE< DAMAGE IT OR WORSE GET POINTS ETC!!
Enjoy!!
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Has anyone actually followed the instructions for derestricting the CDI for the Super 8 50cc listed here. If so, what was the result? How did you go about cuting the Violet / red stripe wire? Details Please.
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Don't you beleive me?
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I have removed one of the pink/purple wires and yes it does derestrict the CDI.
You only need to remove 1 of the pink/purple colored wires and it dossent matter which one.
(http://scootergrisen.dk/scooterhjemmeside/billeder/billed0196.jpg)
Here you see the cdi coupler. You need to remove of the wires with no text on them.
(http://scootergrisen.dk/scooterhjemmeside/billeder/billed0293.jpg)
Use a very small screwdriver inside the coupler to get the wire out without having to cut it. then put som tape around the end and you can reconnect it if you want to.
I have read that its not a good idea to ride with deretricted CDI and restricted variator så be shure to derestrict the variator bush also.
Have a look at http://scootergrisen.dk (http://scootergrisen.dk) its my site and theres alot of pictures comming from the Kymco Super 8 course i have one my self.
You can use Google translate to translate the website to you language.
Also look at: http://scootergrisen.dk/scooterhjemmeside/begrensninger.html (http://scootergrisen.dk/scooterhjemmeside/begrensninger.html) for the re-restriction page. The pictures them self might help even if you cant read the text.
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hey i am new here i have a kymco super 8 50 2t, and was wondering if the variator bush thing was one you need to replace with a smooth one or one that is like a small washer type thing that gets in the way.? and if its the first one what shoud i do ? thanks for the information so far : )
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hey i am new here i have a kymco super 8 50 2t, and was wondering if the variator bush thing was one you need to replace with a smooth one or one that is like a small washer type thing that gets in the way.? and if its the first one what shoud i do ? thanks for the information so far : )
..the variator boss should be smooth...the only washer that should remain is the thin one on the outside of your flywheel, where the nut is..
WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!
peace
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can't i just unconnect the wire from de connector so i can connect it agian later.
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!00% correct!
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yea but how do i do that ?
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A local electronics store will carry MOLEX connector tools. The one you want looks like a tiny metal straw, it fits OVER the pin you want to remove, and pushes in the retainers on the pin. you simply apply the tool and pull the pin out of the connector. A small piece of shrink tubing will protect the pin until you decide you need it again
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Lucky....
The variator boss on the Super 8 has a shoulder that prevents full movement of the variator on it. You need to buy a 3rd party replacement boss or sports variator kit which should come with a non restricted boss.
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Lucky....
The variator boss on the Super 8 has a shoulder that prevents full movement of the variator on it. You need to buy a 3rd party replacement boss or sports variator kit which should come with a non restricted boss.
*sigh* so this includes buying them from somewhere. anyone know of a good place?
Does anyone have some step by step instructions on how to do this because am not very good at figuring out things by myself. : (
do you have to remove the seat and everything to get at the carburettor etc.? thx
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Here's where I would start! http://www.malossiusaonline.com/product_p/5111151.htm (http://www.malossiusaonline.com/product_p/5111151.htm) That's the quickest shipping, low cost company I buy from. There are a TON of posts on swapping out the parts, and tunning them. "search" feature for some of them. Ask if you get stuck! It is a fairly easy job if you get it all planed ahead.
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Apparently the scooter is different depending on where it is sold. I was hoping to remove the wire from the harness and get a few more MPH out of it but when I opened her up, this is what I found:
(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w288/ill_eagle94/ff2ec7e5.jpg)
Seems that my Super 8 2t has no CDI restriction.
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MY CDI looks exactly liek that last picture. with no wires in the spots where is it suppose to be, Does this mean it has no rev limit?
s37en
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Mine also don't have those wires. Is there any other way to do this method without the wires?
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Mine also don't have those wires. Is there any other way to do this method without the wires?
Do you have a 2 or 4 stroke? There is no CDI restriction on the 2-stroke. The jet needs changed- I use a 91, Var and Exhaust are restricted. pipe from carb to airbox is too small. That only got me to 37mph.
Changing the rear driven pulley and getting a longer belt got me to 45-47 mph.
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From what I have found the Super 8 is restricted in 3 ways now. I do not consider the exhaust to be one of the restrictions. To me the stock exhaust is just your basic street legal exhaust. Here they are restrictions:
1. Vario bushing is restricted. It needs to be replaced with the item below. The item below also comes with just about any aftermarket variator kit.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/drive-face-boss-vario-bushing-naraku-racing-unrestricted-20x38mm-p-336-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d (ftp://www.racingplanetusa.com/drive-face-boss-vario-bushing-naraku-racing-unrestricted-20x38mm-p-336-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d)
2. The main jet is to small. It is a size 70 and it needs to be around at least an 82. Larger if you have a high flow air filter. Here is the type you need
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-main-jets-keihin-p-306-1.html?cPath=2_21356_21358&sessID=e06f4cd7ac9a375bf44769d106b6f40a (ftp://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-main-jets-keihin-p-306-1.html?cPath=2_21356_21358&sessID=e06f4cd7ac9a375bf44769d106b6f40a)
3. Here is the one most of us are unaware of. I just figured this out very recently. The rear clutch torque converter is also restricted. It has a small welded lip towards the middle that prevents the belt from going all the way down. It basically work just like the vario bushing but on the opposite end. By not letting the belt travel all the way down it is like trapping the scooter in a lower gear. Remember if the belt can't travel all the way down on the Torque converter that means it also can't travel all the way up on the variator. The magnifies the problem. I will add pictures of this below. The restricted picture is first. Here is what you need to replace. Here is a cheap one from ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCOOTER-MOPED-CLUTCH-PADS-ASSEMBLY-GY6-50-50CC-TaoTao-Kazuma-SUNL-ROKETA-Go-Kart-/160664085824?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2568536540&vxp=mtr (ftp://www.ebay.com/itm/SCOOTER-MOPED-CLUTCH-PADS-ASSEMBLY-GY6-50-50CC-TaoTao-Kazuma-SUNL-ROKETA-Go-Kart-/160664085824?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2568536540&vxp=mtr)
Here is a more expensive one. I can't tell you if it is any better however.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/clutch-pulley-assy-clutch-torque-converter-assy-107mm-p-3684-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d (ftp://www.racingplanetusa.com/clutch-pulley-assy-clutch-torque-converter-assy-107mm-p-3684-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d)
Here is an even more expensive one but this one does come with a better clutch.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/clutch-pulley-assy-clutch-torque-converter-assy-naraku-107mm-p-3888-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d (ftp://www.racingplanetusa.com/clutch-pulley-assy-clutch-torque-converter-assy-naraku-107mm-p-3888-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d)
You could also just buy this piece instead of a whole new clutch pulley assembly as well
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/torque-driver-naraku-sport-torque-converter-secondary-slider-naraku-sport-p-6702-1.html?cPath=2_21356_21360&sessID=5c69a3307e493fc4ab67901e4b1a739a (ftp://www.racingplanetusa.com/torque-driver-naraku-sport-torque-converter-secondary-slider-naraku-sport-p-6702-1.html?cPath=2_21356_21360&sessID=5c69a3307e493fc4ab67901e4b1a739a)
Pimpy has mentioned that he got a longer belt as well. I have no idea what Pimpy belt Pimpy has, however I did find a belt that is 5mm longer and just slightly thicker at the bottom. This belt will certainly work as it is actually for the Kymco Super 8 4t. The Super 8 4t and the Super 8 2t use all the same variator/clutch parts so you know this belt will work.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/drive-belt-malossi-xkevlar-kymco-4stroke-p-8266-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d (ftp://www.racingplanetusa.com/drive-belt-malossi-xkevlar-kymco-4stroke-p-8266-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d)
My new torque driver assembly will arrive tomorrow so I will let you know how it all goes. My scooter is still a work in progress but as of tomorrow I will at least have all of the restrictions taken off of it. I also have the new belt on order so I will let you know if that seems to make any difference. To be honest I can't see it being worth more then 2-3mph at best but that is just a guess. I am going to add a 70cc bbk conversion after all of this but I am going to get my scoot set up as a 50cc first before doing this just a learning experience. I will post up all of the mods when I am done so that people will have something to use a reference. I will also post up after I have the bbk all set up so that people will have a reference for that as well.
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Here are pictures of what the restricted torque converter looks like and what a non restricted one looks like. I found these pictures on another posting so they are not mine. But my super 8 has the same one. The restricted one is pictured first.
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Well I found a place that has the belt that is 10mm longer and all other specs are exactly the same. You can get the belt here http://www.partsforscooters.com/106-82_Gates_Premium_Belt?sc=34&category=132699 (ftp://www.partsforscooters.com/106-82_Gates_Premium_Belt?sc=34&category=132699)
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Does this count for the super 8 150 also?
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From what I have found the Super 8 is restricted in 3 ways now. I do not consider the exhaust to be one of the restrictions. To me the stock exhaust is just your basic street legal exhaust. Here they are restrictions:
1. Vario bushing is restricted. It needs to be replaced with the item below. The item below also comes with just about any aftermarket variator kit.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/drive-face-boss-vario-bushing-naraku-racing-unrestricted-20x38mm-p-336-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d (ftp://www.racingplanetusa.com/drive-face-boss-vario-bushing-naraku-racing-unrestricted-20x38mm-p-336-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d)
2. The main jet is to small. It is a size 70 and it needs to be around at least an 82. Larger if you have a high flow air filter. Here is the type you need
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-main-jets-keihin-p-306-1.html?cPath=2_21356_21358&sessID=e06f4cd7ac9a375bf44769d106b6f40a (ftp://www.racingplanetusa.com/carburetor-main-jets-keihin-p-306-1.html?cPath=2_21356_21358&sessID=e06f4cd7ac9a375bf44769d106b6f40a)
3. Here is the one most of us are unaware of. I just figured this out very recently. The rear clutch torque converter is also restricted. It has a small welded lip towards the middle that prevents the belt from going all the way down. It basically work just like the vario bushing but on the opposite end. By not letting the belt travel all the way down it is like trapping the scooter in a lower gear. Remember if the belt can't travel all the way down on the Torque converter that means it also can't travel all the way up on the variator. The magnifies the problem. I will add pictures of this below. The restricted picture is first. Here is what you need to replace. Here is a cheap one from ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCOOTER-MOPED-CLUTCH-PADS-ASSEMBLY-GY6-50-50CC-TaoTao-Kazuma-SUNL-ROKETA-Go-Kart-/160664085824?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2568536540&vxp=mtr (ftp://www.ebay.com/itm/SCOOTER-MOPED-CLUTCH-PADS-ASSEMBLY-GY6-50-50CC-TaoTao-Kazuma-SUNL-ROKETA-Go-Kart-/160664085824?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2568536540&vxp=mtr)
Here is a more expensive one. I can't tell you if it is any better however.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/clutch-pulley-assy-clutch-torque-converter-assy-107mm-p-3684-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d (ftp://www.racingplanetusa.com/clutch-pulley-assy-clutch-torque-converter-assy-107mm-p-3684-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d)
Here is an even more expensive one but this one does come with a better clutch.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/clutch-pulley-assy-clutch-torque-converter-assy-naraku-107mm-p-3888-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d (ftp://www.racingplanetusa.com/clutch-pulley-assy-clutch-torque-converter-assy-naraku-107mm-p-3888-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d)
You could also just buy this piece instead of a whole new clutch pulley assembly as well
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/torque-driver-naraku-sport-torque-converter-secondary-slider-naraku-sport-p-6702-1.html?cPath=2_21356_21360&sessID=5c69a3307e493fc4ab67901e4b1a739a (ftp://www.racingplanetusa.com/torque-driver-naraku-sport-torque-converter-secondary-slider-naraku-sport-p-6702-1.html?cPath=2_21356_21360&sessID=5c69a3307e493fc4ab67901e4b1a739a)
Pimpy has mentioned that he got a longer belt as well. I have no idea what Pimpy belt Pimpy has, however I did find a belt that is 5mm longer and just slightly thicker at the bottom. This belt will certainly work as it is actually for the Kymco Super 8 4t. The Super 8 4t and the Super 8 2t use all the same variator/clutch parts so you know this belt will work.
http://www.racingplanetusa.com/drive-belt-malossi-xkevlar-kymco-4stroke-p-8266-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d (ftp://www.racingplanetusa.com/drive-belt-malossi-xkevlar-kymco-4stroke-p-8266-1.html?cPath=2_7564_7570&sessID=a3cb0a9acd42e1de8ab2acd74aefac2d)
My new torque driver assembly will arrive tomorrow so I will let you know how it all goes. My scooter is still a work in progress but as of tomorrow I will at least have all of the restrictions taken off of it. I also have the new belt on order so I will let you know if that seems to make any difference. To be honest I can't see it being worth more then 2-3mph at best but that is just a guess. I am going to add a 70cc bbk conversion after all of this but I am going to get my scoot set up as a 50cc first before doing this just a learning experience. I will post up all of the mods when I am done so that people will have something to use a reference. I will also post up after I have the bbk all set up so that people will have a reference for that as well.
First let me say thanks for any help that you give the helpless.(me). I picked up a Kymco 2009 super 8 50cc 4 stroke and want to do the cheap mods. I understand the cdi mod but am unsure of the variator mod . I'm not sure if I need to get a new spacer or just take out the one that is in there. The carb mod seems self explanatory. I can't seem to go to the links you posted for parts. Could you email me the links? Katseyad@yahoo.com thanks
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http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/qmb139-clutch.html (http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/qmb139-clutch.html) $22.99 for unrestricted clutch assembly.
*UPDATE* This clutch did not improve top speed and is poor quality and design. Save your money!
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What differences did you see when you made the rear driven pulley change. Speed? Any excessive belt wear? Did you get a longer belt? Did you have to shim your front Var over?
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Let us know how it works out. That is much cheaper pulley than the Naraku one I bought at $107, ouch. That would make people a good cheap alternative if it works well. :D Keep us up to date on your testing. Thanks.
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I just installed the same clutch - and I can verify that it works fine - however it comes with much stiffer spring then original kymco - Might need time to break in. Not sure what performance impact it will have due to spring, but I did gain couple of miles of top end.
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Top speed unchanged, or at least not noticeable. Disassembled both clutches down to driven pulleys and measured belt depth in each and discovered the seemingly unrestricted pulley does not allow the belt to travel any deeper than the kymco pulley. Well, it does a few 64th's of an inch if that counts. See my picture for visual of maximum belt depth that each pulley will allow.
The generic qmb clutch has multiple build flaws, and would only be reliable as a paperweight.
The picture below shows how the generic qmb139 clutch driven pulley does not allow any further belt depth than the original Kymco part.
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Are the torque drive all the way out on the picture ?
On my scooter it looks like it goes out more.
(http://scootergrisen.dk/scooterhjemmeside/billeder/animation0019.gif)
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Are the torque drive all the way out on the picture ?
On my scooter it looks like it goes out more.
(http://scootergrisen.dk/scooterhjemmeside/billeder/animation0019.gif)
Yes, both torque drivers are all the way out in the pic. Will a belt fit further into the pulleys you have?
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I don't know i'm not sure. I just assumed it would go all the way down.
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Results of marking the pulleys and running it.
It appears the clutch pulley reaches it's maximum belt depth, and the variator reaches right at maximum travel about evenly.
On stock exhaust, stock variator and clutch pulleys, no rev limiter (it seems the stock exhaust is the rev limiter), upjet, it seems around 37 mph indicated is about it. Going any faster would take mods to facilitate higher engine rpm (pipe, bbk, carb, airbox). Or final drive gearing changes.
If it had a clutch pulley that allowed the belt to travel to the bottom, the stock variator travel would only facilitate using around 70% of the clutch pulley range, the belt would have to be shortened to allow the stock variator to pull it to the bottom of the clutch pulley, and thus some penalty to the takeoff gearing.
A larger variator with more effective travel would be ideal with a fully unrestricted clutch pulley.
Just my interpretation of it, let me know what you think, and what results you have found.
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pic #2
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I removed the restriction from the stock exhaust. Acceleration is much improved, and top speed is somewhere past 40 mph, I backed off at 40 but it was still pulling. Prior to this mod, 35-37 mph was it and had to hold wide open for a little bit to get there, now it pulls right past those speeds quickly. The throttle response is much more banshee like than before. The tube extends into the exhaust pipe about 3/8", so you have to grind out the weld to get the tube out of the pipe. I cut a round piece of sheet metal, and made a gasket out of some header material and triple clamped it, since I couldn't get it welded today. I cut the air injection tube off and crimped it shut.
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The sealed off hole. I was gonna have the weld shop tig a cover on it, but they were busy today.
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Crimped off air inlet tube.
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so the restriction is in the pipe itself not in the airbox?
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on 2t yup but not sure for 4t
there is also a topic for modding stock pipe and getting 10+km for top speed
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..wonder if the cobra has that...