KymcoForum.com
General => Technical | How To => Topic started by: Peters on May 12, 2010, 06:56:36 AM
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Hi,
I just purchased a 2008 or 2009 People 50 2-stroke. Took it to the dealer today and they wanted $250 to derestrict it. I have been researching on the internet all day and from what I under stand is there is 4 different methods. 1 the variator boss. 2 is the exhaust. 3 is rejeting the carb. And 4 is the rev limiter on the CDI box.
The variator boss seems to be strait forward and I found for about $21 at Yamaha of Burlington, NC. The exhaust I have some questions about. I need to take the pipe off and grind the washer on the inside close to where it attaches to the head? Also there are two tubes that split off of the pipe. One on the bottom seems to go nowhere and ends about 5 or 6 inches after it splits off. Should I cut this and weld it shut? I have read about other people with other brands doing this. The other tube goes up to a junction and then has a rubber hose coming off of that. The dealer was talking about cutting that. Is this some sort of EGR. Can I cut this and weld it shut? Next is rejeting the carb. What is the size of the jet in there now? And what size should it be after I derestrict the exhaust? Last the CDI box. From what ive read I should just disconnect the green wire with the bullet connector. Should I just disconnect it or should I connect it to this pink wire right beside it? I will try to get some more pics tomorrow
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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..Welcome to th' Forum Peters430!!
..where you located? in NC?..
..I live between asheboro and randleman...
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Thanks,
I live in Greensboro
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..cool!!..i'm not up on the 2-strokes so much, but there are several ppl here that can help you with de-restricting it...
..if you do remove the exhaust restriction you will need to up-size your main jet, probably 1-2 sizes...
..and im pretty sure you disconnect the green wire on your cdi, but don't think you connect it to any other wire...just tape or otherwise cover any bare conductors...
...where did you get your scoot from?
peace
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K thanks for the advice.
I got it from Scooternerds off Battleground in Greensboro. I really like this scooter and I have read it is good quality. Id just like to make it go faster than 30mph and $250 sounds a little steep for something I could do for like $30 in parts.
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Do you have any other pics of where that exhaust pipe comes from? I've never seen that. My guess is you can just cut it off and weld it back closed. The exhaust restriction, if you have one, is found just inside the header pipe. If you pull the exhaust off the cylinder and look inside, you would see what looks like a washer restricting the size down inside. You just grind it out. As for the CDI I'd really have to see which one you have. If there is a green wire with a connector, try un-plugging and see what happens. I don't know of any where you have to disconnect one wire and attach it to another. I definitely don't know it all though!
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..yeah, scooternerds is the only place around here close to get a kymco..
..one of the reasons they are so high, is that they seem to have to order all their parts, and they charge you shipping..
..everything i've priced there, i've found cheaper online, sometimes with free shipping...
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Ok thanks shaka. I have tried unpluging the green wire but did'nt really make any difference. I didnt think it would without doing the other derestrictions first. Well, I guess I'll wait. I will get some more pics on here tomorrow when I have some daylight. Thanks again.
Yea Scooternerds is a little pricey.
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If the cdi is derestricted it will be an instantly noticeable difference! Each restriction is not dependent upon the others either. The cdi is major one, then the variator bushing. You may not have all of the restrictions either. The cdi and variator bushing are the most common though.
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There are a few things that seem odd to me! The pipe for starters. I don't see a kymco exhaust that matches yours. My guess is it is a catalyzed exhaust. Even removing the restriction in the header, will not open the exhaust enough to make a big difference. The variator has a shoulder on the boss, that can be machined flush, and installing 6-7gr rollers will bring your rpms. up to where you can feel some power. The cdi sounds like it came off an older Super9. That should just unplug, and be de-restricted. I would just look at another exhaust to really open the scoot up.
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Aftermarket exhaust maybe in the future. Just dont have the money for it now. Here are some more pics
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another pic sorry its only letting me do one or two at a time.
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one more
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That is a catalyzed exhaust! Just a guess but I doubt there is a re-stricter in the header, Doesn't hurt to look tho. you could remove the plumbing, and have the holes welded, and if you go that far I would cut the muffler open to by pass/ remove the converter. A die grinder, and an hour or so is all it would take. You can then get the whole shebang re welded for maybe $40.00. You can check the VIN on the down tube for the frame for the year. There is a series of letters (8 of them), and the year code is the next 2 numbers (08/09 whatever) I just checked mine to be sure, and found what I have been posting as an '04 is actually an '01.
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..looks like that lower appendage is sealed off already...is it?
..shouldnt hurt anything to leave it if it is...
..what th' hell is that anyway ???
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My best guess would be either a test port for dialing in the emissions or there was not enough room in the design to meet air space specs, and they added it there. The first year Vrods had a similar set up on the exhaust where they added a dead end tube under the muffler cover to gain air space for the Tone of the bike
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..i've never seen one like that...
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My 07'has that exhaust setup, Well for a couple more days it does.
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...what is all that for??
especially the lower, crimped? pipe...i don't get it...
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That definitely looks like there is a catalytic converter in that pipe! Weird, I've never seen one quite like that! The best option is to buy an aftermarket replacement and get rid of all that stuff!
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I have a 2005 people 50 2t and I'll have to look to see if I have that dingleberry exhaust thing. One question. If you derestrict a stock muffler, by either cutting the restrictive cone off the flang or/and drilling out the restriction washer inside the flange, do you have to worry about rejetting??
So far I believe the clutch/variator and the cdi have been derestricted when I bought it second or third hand, I can easily get up to around 45mph.
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Ok so I had the variator boss, or whatever my dealer called it and wanted $40 for, machined down. As I understand that should have came with my bike. >:( Anyways I got a pretty good idea of how it works while I was in there. Now its doing about 40mph (takes a little while to get there). I have the green CDI wire disconnected. But it doesnt seem to make any difference. I also pulled the exhaust pipe off and sure enough zombie was right, there is no re-stricter in the header of the pipe. I really dont want to open it up and have it welded back together. So I guess I'll be in the market for a new pipe. I also don't want to spend a lot of money for it. Can anyone point me in the right direction. Thanks
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someone had one for sale in the people 50 section ;)
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The entire idea of upgrading parts is to increase fuel flo... This good thing = torque. That sctuff = jets
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ONCE I CHANGE MY BOSS DRIVE I GAINED 20 MPH EASY. THE CDI UNIT REALLY DID NOT DO TO MUCH BUT HELP A LITTLE OR MAYBE I CANNOT TELL BECAUSE THE SPEEDO NEEDLE IS PINNED AT 50 MPH, I WISH I CAN CHANGE THE SPEEDOMETER BOX SO I CAN SEE MY REAL SPEED, BUT THE BOSS IS THE CHEAPEST WAY TO GO.
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I have a 2005 people 50 2t and I'll have to look to see if I have that dingleberry exhaust thing. One question. If you derestrict a stock muffler, by either cutting the restrictive cone off the flang or/and drilling out the restriction washer inside the flange, do you have to worry about rejetting??
So far I believe the clutch/variator and the cdi have been derestricted when I bought it second or third hand, I can easily get up to around 45mph.
In Most cases you will have to go up 1-2 jet sizes when you de-restrict the pipe. The only way to be sure is adjust the idle mix screw for the best idle, and do a top end plug chop w/ a NEW spark plug. You want an even tan to coffee color on the plug. For Peters430 http://www.tecnigas.com/o/inici.php?idioma=en (http://www.tecnigas.com/o/inici.php?idioma=en) they make some very good exhaust systems for the Kymco's. Find the model you want, and shop for the best price. We can help you find a good price, as most of us do all our parts shopping on line
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So is the Tecnigas Next R pipe a better performing pipe than the Leo Vince TT pipe? The Leo Vince TT seems to be about $75 cheeper. I dont mind removing the cone at the begining of the Leo Vince pipe if thats the only restriction. I don't know, maybe I'll just go for the Tecnigas.
Thanks guys. You've all been a lot of help :).
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buy a big bore kit. imo
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So is the Tecnigas Next R pipe a better performing pipe than the Leo Vince TT pipe? The Leo Vince TT seems to be about $75 cheeper. I dont mind removing the cone at the begining of the Leo Vince pipe if thats the only restriction. I don't know, maybe I'll just go for the Tecnigas.
Thanks guys. You've all been a lot of help :).
I believe the Leo has a restriction inside the expansion chamber that you have to cut the pipe in half and re-weld to remove. I'm not down with hacking up a new exhaust so I run the Tecnigas. If you are planning on running a BBK in the near future get the RSII though. I'm running the Next R on my 70cc set-up and wish I had the RSII at this point. I think I'd get 60 mph much easier if I had it! ;)
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My 2 cents.I believe that 2008 to 2010 has a cat the small tube is a rebreather cycles back to airbox.My 2009 was lucky to reach 35mph with this setup down hill!!!Ha!I think this was kymco's attempt to get into california's market.I was lucky enouph to have a 2002 pipe swaped it pluged the tube to airbox ran an #85 main and a 3/8 hole at front of air box in front of the filter.was hitting 52mph, probably do a little better with the tecnogas and pod.I've heard you can cut the excess off and cap be sure to plug the tube,but havn't tried it got one sittin here. Good luck all. P.s.Had to buy the cobra c.d.i.No external green wire.I hear thers one inside Anyone now how to get to it.
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Thanks for the cool info art. Here's the post for de-restricting the cdi... http://kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=2133.msg15955#msg15955 (http://kymcoforum.com/index.php?topic=2133.msg15955#msg15955)
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Thanks got one sitting here the wire run around the perimeter.Nice I'll see how it goes
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Here is the green wire I unpluged. What is the pink one that hangs loose? Sorry I should have put this pic on sooner. It was too big had to cut a little off the left side.
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The pink one on mine is unplugged to. So both need to be unplugged?
I get 40-42 out of mine with pink unplugged, green plugged.
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Hard to say what the purpose of the pink wire is... Maybe for a Tach. on other models? The green should be un-pluged on yours wreck.
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Is it possible I'm getting 40 with just the derestricted boss?
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Those years are realy choked down by the pipe and jets.You would have to be going down hill to around 50mph to see if the cdi cuts your spark or not.My 2009 With me 200 plus could not get to that speed without a big hill ;DChange the pipe try to run a #85 main should get you to 50mph open the airbox a bit 50+Good luck P.s.I think that green is the ground to your horn The pink is for an unknown set up not used for the people.I had to buy the cobra cdi to fully derestrict.Zombie had a link for cutting the internal green wire for this stock cdi(lot cheaper!)
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Ok im on the verge of ordering the Tecnigas Next R pipe. Should I get a torque spring and clutch springs too or is that something I should upgrade later with the variator. And forgive me im still learning ???, the torque spring is inside the clutch right? Any Ideas on what size jet I should aim for? Im thinkin about getting an 85 and maybe next 2 sizes up also(leaving room to expand). And last where are you guys getting your spark plugs at? Does any auto parts store stock them or are they something I will need to order? Thanks guys I love this website I feel like me and my Kymco have a home :)
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My next r came with the 6.5 rollers it worked good for me untill the big bore kit.the spring is in the clutch,i'm running the white set and think 7g rollers worked best for me there.The #85 is a good start and getting the next 2 larger is wise.Where are your jets comeing from,I believe the keihin 7mm round are the proper ones we've had some problems finding them,the ones from provo are the 8mm,they can be tapped to fit.No doubt,you have a home here!
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Not sure where im getting the jets yet. Might just have to get them from the dealer. Anyone know where else I can get them?
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..i have a cpl of kehin jets coming from scooterworks for my a50, which has a keihin 20 mm carb...
..i really believe that they are of the same size as the ppl carb's main jet..
..dimensionally...
..i'll let you know when they come in..should be monday...
peace
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I think the pb for the people uses a 7mm,not confirmed and it's a 19mm carb not confirmed.Don't know how they come up with the #'s.The best I can decipher from the keihin sight and no one seems to have except scooterworks havn't tried them yet.The ones from provo are 8mm i believe and dont fit without tap and die,but they will work.
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..from looking at the jet from my ppl today, it looks exactly like the main jet in the aftermarket carb i bought for my guilty...
..i got two 95 (.095mm) jets coming in the mail..
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8mm i believe and dont fit without tap and die,but they will work.
..had that same situation with my a50...oem carb..
..found some local jets that wanted to fit...but didn't really...i made them fit tho...lol...
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I Finally ordered a technigas pipe from Moped hospital. Where can I find the torch tip cleaners at?
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Any welding shop will have them (there true intended use),some auto parts store will have them also for more cash calling them carb cleaning tools or something like that.
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Check this out for some jet choices they also have a torch cleaner kit. http://www.pjmotorsports.com/keihin-jets.html#main (http://www.pjmotorsports.com/keihin-jets.html#main) jets
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http://www.pjmotorsports.com/keihin-jets.html#Car (http://www.pjmotorsports.com/keihin-jets.html#Car) cleaner
Is this what you were talking about?
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K&L carb cleaner wire set?
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They have the proper jets for the pb carberater if you wanted to buy the jets 3rd set down 99101-116.
That is a set of torch tip cleaners,the cost is a little more than most welding supply shops would sell them for.
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What size main jet would you recommend for my 2009 people with the tecnigas next r pipe and a universal cone type air filter? Will I have to change the idle jet?
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I think a #95 will put you in the ball park.
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I got my pipe on. Went to change the jet and the stock one I pulled out is very different from the one PJM sent me. ??? Thread size is bigger on the stock one. The one on top is stock.
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The top looks like your pilot jet. Look again there is another down the center of carb inline with the slide(the thing your throttle cable is linked to ;) Under the float assembly!
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This is a picture of the jet out of the carb.
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Now with the jet back in.
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Ah!! A picture is worth a thousand words :D .You have removed the "needle holder" and main jet together or (attomizer). The little round jet at the end will come out of that. You may have orderd the wrong replacement or they sent the wrong one. The shape does not matter so mutch as the thread size. I think it's the 7mm.
Anyway they will separate and the main in your other pic looks a little long,but may be O.K.
Keihin and kymco have made it realy hard to get the right damn jets!!! It should be for a pb 16mm i believe.
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Did you order the 99101-116 I think thats the right one. Did I post the wrong # sorry if I did Damn!!!
I caught the mistake and have corrected it sh**! My fault! For future refrence the people runs the pb 16mm carb To my knowledge. (It should not be this hard) No one thought we would be tuning these things i guess.
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Right thread size is what matters. I dont see any with 7mm threads.
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says the round head on that is 5mm. I dont understand. Would the threads be bigger than the head?
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I know it's confusing ,but the 7mm is actually the length I just know that part and the carb model# some other non kehiens will fit ,but notice they don't give a thread size.
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Ha! this is after hours of trying to figure it out and than could not even find the jets if you wanted to order them,Thanks to a member this sight showed up a couple weeks ago(jpmotorsports). You might see why many of us just drill them out ;)
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Another thought I got so fed up with this i started to tap the attomizers to except the "8mm" main jets that can be found at any shop for convience and selection. AHHHH!!! Oh well sorry for the bad info Thought I had it down by now.
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its cool. Im just gonna break down and get some mini drill bits tomorrow. I wanna get this thing running. I got a feelin its gonna scream.
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Ha! It will! If you have a problem let me know,I could send ya a jet if needed. If ya really need i can swap a tapped attomizer with your stock one. Pm me if it comes to that.
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K got the mini bits today. Started with about .915mm ok. moved up to .95. Now im at 1.00mm and runs great. Little hesitation at first sometimes. But the air filter seems to be collecting gas and is dripping on the cvt cover. ???
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...does it do it all the time?? drip??
..i saw evidence of the same thing on mine when i bought it..
..the cover's paint was gone from beneath the carb. where it coupled with the stock airbox...
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you mean even when its not running?
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..i would think that it would be most like to happen at idle, and not while riding....
..your idle mix may be a bit ..yeah, a bit rich...
..did you do an idle plug chop yet??
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yeah was rich
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where is the mix screw?
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nevermind I found your link to the manual. I though the same thing it couldnt be doin it at WOT.
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...well, my carb does not look like the one in the service manual, but the air mix screw should be the smaller of the two slotted screws on theside of your carb...
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does anyone else have these semi-circular half moon type air screw? If so how do you turn it?
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does anyone else have these semi-circular half moon type air screw?
..what??
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...sounds like half of the screw's head is missing...
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sorry its like 3/4 moon shape.
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..dude..please...take a pic...
;)
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,,you changed your name...
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Half moon ??? pic deffinetly, I don't have the 2009 anymore but don't sound right.
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I got the wet air filter problem solved. Air idle mix was rich. Sorry cant really get a good pic right now with my cell phone right now I tried. I was turning it with needle nose pliers. Dont wanna tear it up anymore so now I am using a bit driver with some cardboard jamed in it. Works pretty good I can spin it with my fingers now. I did another idle plug chop. Still rich I think but better to be rich than lean right. I only have the screw maybe half a turn out. Heres a pic.
I did change my name. Figured im the one and only.
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This is the plug after about an hour or two of riding. Still lean? Im at about 1.00 with the jet now.
Again cant get any good pics. The insulator is tan like coffee like what I have read its suposed to be.
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Here is a pic of my slide needle. I don't know if it is adjustable of not.
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One more
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There is a cap over the needle with a spring to hold in place.(if it's the stock carb) With needle nose plyers grab,pudh and turn counter clockwise. You can richen the needls a bit with a shim,but if not bogging off idle don't worry about it.
A hair rich is o.k. How does it perform? Thats the most important part. You will have to play with your weights next to get the best out of it. I think 7.5g was a good match for your setup,you may have got some rollers with the pipe check it out.
As long as the plug is not ash white or spotted you should be close keep an eye on things. You want to go as big as possible on the main without it sputtering (= too ritch)
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Dont wanna tear it up anymore so now I am using a bit driver with some cardboard jamed in it.
..a brother from another mother..
;D
..sometimes y' just gotta improvise...
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Definitely bogging off idle. I grab the white peice off plastic inside the needle retainer and twist counter clockwise?
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Performs great getting 45-46 mph on flat ground 50 -52 downhill "I weight about 250". Boggs when I ease the throttle in but takes off when I nail it.
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Yep you can make a shim out of a beer can one should do it . May need to push down as you twist to get cap off. I think with some roller changes you will get another 5 mph out of it.
You should be able to get a full turn out at least on the air idle mix,may help with your off idle performance. Keep in mind that screw only affects the idle for the most part, so any other tuneing will have to be done with the needle and main jet and air supply.
Bog may also be caused by the cvt setup. I'm thinking with your over all weight you may want to go to a stiffer contra spring to get your rpms up a bit before it takes off.
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So would I need to go lighter or heavier than what I have now. I don't even know what weight the ones that came with the pipe are. I guess I could weigh them.
I think I need a better air filter. I put a cheap one right on the carb.
Bog may also be caused by the cvt setup. I'm thinking with your over all weight you may want to go to a stiffer contra spring to get your rpms up a bit before it takes off.
I think your right. The rpms jump up and it takes off after about 5-8ft of WOT. So I need stiffer clutch springs right? Also what about a torque spring?
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You should have 8.5 stock weights, I think 7.5 works best with the mods you have now. I kitted mine before trying the spring upgrade so stock may work with the spring. Currently running 9.5g with lots of mods. Go with the green malossi or 1500 rpm I think.
Think of the fly's as fine tuning dont worry till you get the rest settled. (They affect the take of grab) Heavy for quiker grab and light to soften it. If your not in the range they do nothing noticable.
The uni is O.K. but the k/n is the way to go.
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Excellent thread!!!
I'm just starting the process to get my 2009 People 50 going a little faster. :)
I remove the drive boss yesterday and had a friend help me machine it down. We didn't remove the entire shoulder, since I wasn't sure if the belt would ride too high inside the belt case, when the drive face (with the teeth) and the movable drive face come together all the way. Is it safe to allow the full length of the drive boss to be machined? I noticed that I could not exceed 40 MPH downhill yesterday. :)
Also, did I read correctly, the early model exhaust systems are less restrictive? I found a 2003 People 50 I'm picking up for parts, that still has the exhaust on it. Will that work well in place of an aftermarket exhaust to free the flow up a bit?
If I have the 2003 exhaust system, do I upgrade the main jet size a little bit to get more power? If so, how do I properly size that?
Also, I noticed that my scooter really suffers in performance at WOT. There is a little vacuum switch of some kind (with the fuel filter), that cuts of fuel flow to the carburetor at WOT (no manifold pressure). Is there a safe way to disable this, without removing the safety feature to cut off fuel in the event the scooter tips over, etc.?
Lastly, did you guys determine the CDI does NOT restrict the engine, electronically? I should have a CDI on the 2003 scooter I could use also.
Thanks for any help!! This scooter rocks!