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Scooters - 50cc => Super 9 => Topic started by: chaz35 on November 14, 2015, 03:53:40 AM
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I adjusted my oil pump to increase oil consumption a little. There are 3 index marks on the pump body and the swivel head tip has an aligning mark. I set the aligning mark right at or a little past the 3rd index mark on the open side of the pump body. Maintenance manual says:
"Reference tip alignment within 1mm of
index mark on open side is acceptable.
However, the aligning mark on the
control lever must never be on the
closed side of the index mark, otherwise
engine damage will occur because of
insufficient lubrication"
I think instructions mean aligning mark should be past the middle index mark by at least 1mm. I think my oil pump is set to allow a little more oil flow and was wondering how much oil I was using.
I started keeping a record of how much gas and oil I was adding, and came up with some initial numbers: gasoline consumption - approx 59 miles per gallon, and oil consumption - approx 2.9 oz per gallon of gasoline or 44 to 1.
I will keep records for awhile to verify consistent results. Then maybe adjust oil pump to see how much it changes consumption. I think almost 3 oz of oil per gallon of gasoline is probably about right with state of tune I am running, and almost 60 miles per gallon gasoline consumption is pretty good IMO. Cheers
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If ur running a moddified 2stroke maybe id add some extra oil in gas and then the automix at std ratio.
And maybe consider getting rid of the pump and do your own mix at the ratio you feel confortable
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Nice write up, @chaz35! I have wondered what a detailed report of consumption was after tuning. I've never had the patience, and am more often than not in a hurry. Not to mention that I haven't adjusted my fuel gauge to be correct yet. It reads empty long before its empty. At the empty mark it tends to take almost exactly a gallon. I leave it because it keeps me from running it out of fuel. I've rough estimated my mileage at 45-50 mpg. Oil, no telling for me, but I know my pump is leaking into the case, and I run the 20 dollars a quart stuff. Kinda frustrates me to the point of by passing the pump. But I'm a little too used to the convenience.
Are you calculating 44 to 1 as an average ratio? I've read that at idle it can range between 70 to 1 to 100 to 1, depending on the setup...
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My engine is stock, except for pod airfilter, rejetted carb, and Tecnigas Next-R pipe, I don't normally turn more than 8000 revs, and run high quality oil. I really like the oil pump set-up, idles nice, minimizes expensive oil consumption, and no smoke. If I was racing, I would take-out the oil pump and run pre-mix.
I filled up the fuel tank, and oil tank and wrote down the mileage/ kilometers. When I got gas I kept each receipt (which showed the quantity). When the oil tank looked like I could add some more oil, I filled up with gas at the station to top off, and carefully measured the quantity of oil to fill-up the oil tank to just cover the full marker on the inside of the tank (like I did to start the record), it took 13.53 oz oil. Actually, I measured 400 ml of oil and converted it to 13.53 oz, so my measurement wasn't that precise.
I added up the quantity on my gas receipts and came to 4.677 gals. 4.677 gals gas is 598.66 oz divided by 13.53 oz oil is 44.25 to 1 gas to oil ratio. Or, 13.53 oz oil divided by 4.677 gals gas is 2.89 oz oil per gal of gas.
The pump on this scooter leaks oil into the case too. When I 1st got the scooter, the whole tank of oil was in the case and muffler. I wonder if the pump is worn and should be replaced? If I ride it every day or so, no problem. If I let it sit for a week, it smokes for awhile until it clears out the extra oil that leaked past the pump?. Cheers
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Also, I rode 443 kilometers which is 277 miles. 277 miles divided by 4.677 gals gas is 59 miles per gal.
I checked and the oil pump is the same between the People 50 2T and Super 9. I may swap the oil pumps to see if still leaks oil with known oil pump that doesn't leak to try and isolate the problem. Cheers
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Please let us know if it changes anything. I have a gasket kit from when I thought my old cylinder kit has a blown head gasket and it has many extra that are left, like an o ring also. Maybe I can swap mine any stop wasting my expensive Bel Ray oil...
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I don't think it's o-ring causing the oil leak, the o-ring that goes on the outside diameter of the pump where it fits into the case. I also noticed doesn't appear to be replacement o-ring for the oil pump. I guess if you need new o-ring because it's damaged, you buy a new oil pump?
Maintenance manual says don't disassemble pump, trash if you disassemble and try to put back together. I think something internal to the pump has too much clearance or other issue. Just my thoughts. Cheers
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Good point. I guess we'll probably have to find a source for pumps soon!
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If you look close you can see what i used to block off pump . works amazing its a freeze drain plug . got it at advance auto 5 bucks . tight it up a lil then beat in with a dead blow hammer or rubber mallet . then tighten some more . put screw back in hole and bam oil pump blocked off . you can run 50/1 in these bikes if you use a good oil . other wise run 40/1
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Well, I may have to do that soon!
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That's cool, is it reversible?, I assume not?, but good idea. Cheers
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I got another Super 9 LC, this one 2003 orange. Same issue, all the oil drained out of the tank, ended up in the muffler. I would be inclined to cut off the pump shaft at the gear that engages the crankshaft. I am thinking the extra volume in the crankcase if you remove the pump and replace with freeze plug may change the airflow in the crankcase? Before I did it, I would want to price a new pump, to replace if I wanted to go back to original set-up. Cheers
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I did a quick price check on oil pump, looks like maybe could get for less than $100, so expensive IMO. Cheers
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That's cool, is it reversible?, I assume not?, but good idea. Cheers
Yes totally reversible. But you cant rely on a pump when you change the bore kit . it will never give you right oil amount . if its stock then yea keep pump but if your moding it you gotta mix . you can still use vacuum on gas . . oil pumps suck ass no matter what you do to it . it still leaks if you by pass to . just block that sucker off!
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You are right for modified engines, run hard. I still have some 100cc piston port 2 cycle engines I used to race. I ran premix 6oz to gal, 20 to 1, Maxima 927 oil. They would run all day, 320 degrees f head temp, made max HP at approx 12000 revs, could turn 15000 revs and not hurt them, great engines (TKM BT-82), still have 6 of them. Cheers
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I got another Super 9 LC, this one 2003 orange. Same issue, all the oil drained out of the tank, ended up in the muffler. I would be inclined to cut off the pump shaft at the gear that engages the crankshaft. I am thinking the extra volume in the crankcase if you remove the pump and replace with freeze plug may change the airflow in the crankcase? Before I did it, I would want to price a new pump, to replace if I wanted to go back to original set-up. Cheers
Your fleet of Super 9's is getting huge! I'm jealous. Wish they were selling here... Still just that one that the guy won't budge in price.
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Yes, a little ridiculous, I am getting afraid to look at CL, because I can't resist them. This last one came in from Hollywood, CA. The people that had it said they got it off Facebook for free. It doesn't have a title, still working on that, but got it running, think it will be a good one.
Have you thought about People 50 2T's? I have one and like it a lot, maybe as well as Super 9's. There seem to be more People's than Super 9's around here. There is like new People 50 2T here for $500, I am having a hard time resisting it, would have bought it but guy wouldn't answer his CL ad. Then the Super 9 shows up, I bought it, and a couple of days later the guy with the People calls, still has it, so another dilemma. When it rains it pours or something like that. Be patient, save your $'s, your deal will come.
I did another gas/ oil computation: 59.7 mpg for gas, 49.3 to 1 or 2.6 oz per gallon oil, about the same as before, but a little less oil. Maybe my record keeping was a little off, or I was on the gas a little less this 2nd time and used less oil? I installed 108 main jet and took out 102, so next time my mpg should go down a little. The 108 main jet was very significant, runs a lot better with larger main jet. Temp 50/ 60's here on a nice day, so needs more gas for the cooler air, summer time temp 90/ 100's, big change in temp calls for different jet.
Cheers
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Yes, a little ridiculous, I am getting afraid to look at CL, because I can't resist them. This last one came in from Hollywood, CA. The people that had it said they got it off Facebook for free. It doesn't have a title, still working on that, but got it running, think it will be a good one.
Have you thought about People 50 2T's? I have one and like it a lot, maybe as well as Super 9's. There seem to be more People's than Super 9's around here. There is like new People 50 2T here for $500, I am having a hard time resisting it, would have bought it but guy wouldn't answer his CL ad. Then the Super 9 shows up, I bought it, and a couple of days later the guy with the People calls, still has it, so another dilemma. When it rains it pours or something like that. Be patient, save your $'s, your deal will come.
I did another gas/ oil computation: 59.7 mpg for gas, 49.3 to 1 or 2.6 oz per gallon oil, about the same as before, but a little less oil. Maybe my record keeping was a little off, or I was on the gas a little less this 2nd time and used less oil? I installed 108 main jet and took out 102, so next time my mpg should go down a little. The 108 main jet was very significant, runs a lot better with larger main jet. Temp 50/ 60's here on a nice day, so needs more gas for the cooler air, summer time temp 90/ 100's, big change in temp calls for different jet.
Cheers
I was actually a few hours late on a people 2t. I really wanted it, looked good, 200$ and all it needed was an exhaust, which I have lying around. A friend of mine has one, with the 50cc motor and stock pipe it was able to keep up easily when I had the cheap hoca kit on mine. The malossi made a great difference. He ended up putting a malossi on his, he was pulling wheelies like a fool! Something I still am too afraid to do...
I've been fretting about my jetting for the cold season as well. But I actually had been running so rich that I took a step down to a 90 main and it does quite well.
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$200 for People 50 2T sounds like good deal to me! I am still working on Malossi BBK for my People, I messed up the build and hopefully can get it going, I am waiting on some parts to come in.
I guess you are running the OEM airbox? and performance pipe. 90 main jet seems small, would bog with my set-up? aftermarket airpod and Tecnigas Next-R pipe. The People 50 2T loved 108 main and 45 slow jets with aftermarket airpod and Tecnigas Next-R pipe. Sounded like a chainsaw working hard cutting down a tree, awesome. Cheers
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I am running the stock airbox, but modified to the point of having open airflow with the perks of the box. It's a 90 in a 19mm arreche carb. The stock carb I had a 95 that i made larger with a torch tip cleaner before the airbox mod.
What happened to your kit?
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OK, 19mm carb, I don't know anything about larger carbs. My kit for People 50?, I made all the mistakes with it, have a thread over in the People 50 section if you want to read gory details. I now have all the parts to try and finish it, so may get it going soon. I noticed yesterday, Malossi has final drive mod for People 50 2T now, might try if my kit goes well. These scooters are fun... Cheers