Author Topic: Battery draining issue  (Read 7981 times)

eakins

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Re: Battery draining issue
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2016, 07:30:55 PM »
so i checked the battery today.
engine off it sits 12.5v
engine on it registers 14.04v from idle to being reved. never goes above or below that.
is 14v enough to be charging?

when i have a charged battery (from a tender jr) starts great.
if i turn it off, then  turnkey/lights back on (but no start)
the battery drain down to 10v in about 45 secs and then holds there in voltage but will not start.
this seems very quick to drop that much in voltage so basically I have seconds for a good start...no reserve.

this is a new battery (scorpion yt12 175cca) and replaced another battery that was a week old and was not starting.
any idea what is going on here? or what i should check next???
i'll take battery to parts store and do a load test just to confirm but i don't think it's a battery...something in the engine is causing a massive voltage draw.



« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 07:34:20 PM by eakins »

CROSSBOLT

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Re: Battery draining issue
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2016, 08:19:15 PM »
I think that hose that runs aft goes the the vapor can. A hole in that one would really affect the mixture!

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nushipwright

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Re: Battery draining issue
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2016, 08:52:18 PM »
so i checked the battery today.
engine off it sits 12.5v
engine on it registers 14.04v from idle to being reved. never goes above or below that.
is 14v enough to be charging?

when i have a charged battery (from a tender jr) starts great.
if i turn it off, then  turnkey/lights back on (but no start)
the battery drain down to 10v in about 45 secs and then holds there in voltage but will not start.
this seems very quick to drop that much in voltage so basically I have seconds for a good start...no reserve.

this is a new battery (scorpion yt12 175cca) and replaced another battery that was a week old and was not starting.
any idea what is going on here? or what i should check next???
i'll take battery to parts store and do a load test just to confirm but i don't think it's a battery...something in the engine is causing a massive voltage draw.

Your battery voltage dropping to 10V in 45 seconds and staying there is a very bad indicator.
A lead acid battery is considered empty at 10.5 Volts, and your max. charging voltage should never exceed 14.5Volts.
Do you have access to another battery to try?

If I understand you right, you have a new battery in your scooter. Please consider that a brand new battery can be faulty too (partial internal short). Rarely but it's possible. I know from experience.
If you want to thoroughly check your battery, to rule that out of the equation, you need access to a computerized R/C battery charger. Using that charger try to fully charge your battery on the Pb setting at 1/10C rating. (for example: if your battery capacity is 10Ah then charge at 1A current) Then discharge the battery at 1/5C to 10.5V and see discharged mAh's. If you get less than 70% of the rated capacity out, then you can consider that battery dead. 
“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”  - Mark Twain
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eakins

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Re: Battery draining issue
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2016, 11:55:57 PM »
ok brought my neighbor in to test some things.

bike started strong 3 times then died on the 4th

we are guessing when the engine starts it has a ground fault to the frame and dumping juice.
 do not have an overnight battery drain issue.
this does not happen every time however???

this is the run down:

-battery holds 12.5v when sitting for days - good
-scooter charges at 14v consistently - good
-on a 10amp scale, the negative wire draws 0.01 key on or off - low, good
-continuity is 0 on the negative battery side to all frame points and engine - good
-continuity is 0 from positive battery to starter relay battery side - good
-no continuity across the starter relay when off - good
-continuity is 0 from the starter side of the relay to where the possitive attaches to the starter
PLUS is 0 to all ground points on frame/engine???  Is this normal??? - not good???
-small voltage is seen on the frame ground to negative battery when trying to start? not good?

the big ? is there continuity on the hot side of the stater to the frame?
logic tells us no.

do I have a bad or inconsistent starter?

thanks!
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 12:02:39 AM by eakins »

eakins

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Re: Battery draining issue
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2016, 04:48:05 PM »
ok here are things i tested in this order.
battery fully charged overnight.

cold engine

key off - .01 amp draw between neg battery & ground. no parasitic drain.
key on - 5.40 amp draw. normal range?

key off - 12.8v
key on - holds steady at 11.9v for well over a minute (no drop)

engine starts like a champ & runs well.

13.9v while running

turn engine off for 1 minute

key off - 12.5v
key on - voltage drops quickly to bellow 11 in less than 30 sec

will not start now.

-------------------------------------------------------------

so I get 1 good start, then something happens?

heading now to parts store to test load ability of battery.
normally I would say this is a bad battery, but it's the 3rd in a row so something is causing batteries to fail???

PO added a tender because of starting problems.
shop I bought from added a new battery (traditional Interstate) when delivered, as the one in there had problems.
this battery failed after a few day, so I bought the biggest AGM that would fit (175cca).
this battery is failing after a week.

eakins

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Re: Battery draining issue
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2016, 04:49:21 PM »
i see the ground from the frame to the starter.

is there another main ground from frame to engine? don't see it if so?

eakins

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Re: Battery draining issue
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2016, 08:21:18 PM »
voltage drop while starting from 2 points (fresh charged battery) Poor connection between battery and starter, could be starter relay contacts, battery connections or anything else in the path.

-connected direct to battery: 10.6v or so see on tester while starting.
-connected to positive & negative on starter: 8.6v or

It happens so fast but that is approx a 2v difference.

----------------------------------------------------

Took battery to parts store.

well the battery is fully charged, but only 90% and did test bad.

taking the previous battery back to parts store and see how that test.

found out the previous owner replaced the factory battery too before he traded (got sick of this problem?) it in.

so in 1000 miles this engine has gone thru 4 batteries. 2 in the last 2 months while I owned it.

i can't be believe that it was 4 bad batteries in a row.
something is killing these batteries.

what next?

Thanks!

eakins

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Re: Battery draining issue
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2016, 11:58:31 PM »
think I found a/the problem.

started digging into the alternator charging coil, ignition pulse sensor & reg/rec

-alternator charging coil (yellow wires from motor) all in spec (.05 ohm & no ground continuity) - good
-Ignition pulse sensor (from motor) 101.5 ohm (spec 106 ohm) - close enough?
-reg/rec yellow wires (connects to charging coil yellow) no ohms (spec is .04-.06) - problem!

so the reg/rec seems bad (no ohms on the yellow wires) but I was still getting 14v charging to the battery? does this seem right? the 14v was steady no matter the rpm from idle to high rpm. thought this was odd as I was expecting it to be lower at idle.


eakins

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Re: Battery draining issue
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2017, 09:24:34 PM »
Well I got the scooter running again.
I purchased a new starter, reg/rec (updated design with larger heat sink) and starter relay plus a new Yuasa battery.
The new starter turned easier when I do it by hand too.

All parts are Taiwan made, avoid Chinese mainland ones.

She starts strong now and I'm getting 14.25v charging. It was less than 14v before.
Tough to say 100% the issue but I have a consistently strong starting Kymco now.

ps Anyone with a Kymco can probably upgrade to this better reg/rec design.
Bolts right up and seems it fits all FI models.

images and part # here
http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/need-help-with-a-kymco-starting-issue.1168819/page-4#post-31626661

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