Author Topic: Which one wins? Time or Temp?  (Read 238 times)

GLV55

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Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« on: December 06, 2017, 09:37:31 PM »
I was riding in the clear, bright sunshine under big blue skies yesterday - great day for a late-in-the-year scooter ride. However, the temperature was only 35*F, which is cold enough, but add the 40 mph speed (hence, wind chill) and DANG it got cold. Even though I was layered up, I still wrestled with this question all the way home:

Do I go slower and spend more time in the cold weather getting home, but with a lower wind chill factor,
OR
Do I go faster, get home sooner, but suffer through higher wind chill factors???

What do you all do when you are in this situation? Ride faster or slower?
2014 Lance PCH 150
2007 Kymco People 150 (totaled by a drunk, Oct. 2013)
Nampa, ID

Stig

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 04:27:50 AM »
Last winter I set out on the Burgman for my coffee village ride. 33°F on the temp gauge on the dash (dislike that thing - bad for morale)
When I walked in to the coffee shop 45 mins later to stares, then laughter.....
"Seemed like a good idea at the time!" was all I could come up with to explain this idiocy.
If you are too cold on your ride....you need more/better layers.
Cold leads to diminished concentration for me...so I  fix it with more layers, and battery heated gloves. If I  were really smart I'd ride behind a big screen. But I  don't like them.
If I'm  too cold to concentrate I go home.
4 yrs ago my hands stopped me every time after 20 mins. Warm them on the heat shield. Don't remove gloves to take a picture, etc. Then family bought me battery gloves for Xmas....and I can ride 4 seasons again.
A must for me is to stop ALL wind penetration with the outer layer on my core/chest. That Occu-Nomix jacket does that for me.
Feel you pain, buddy....

Stig
The first will be last - and the last will get a crown.
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GLV55

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2017, 10:50:47 AM »
Well, Stig, those heated gloves are looking better all the time. Maybe I should drop a few Christmas hints...hmmm. I did have on thick skiing gloves that go over my smaller leather gloves, so my hands were in pretty good shape. Anything over 20 minutes, I would have felt that cold on my fingers for sure.

Also, I didn't have my windshell jacket over my armored jacket so that probably would have helped cut the wind more. I just thought, "Hey, it's only a 10 minute ride and I'm in town, so the speed limit is only 35 mph....I don't need it, I can get by without that last layer." Ummm, nope! Lesson learned - when the temp is under 40, use ALL layers.  :-\
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2007 Kymco People 150 (totaled by a drunk, Oct. 2013)
Nampa, ID

ScooterWolf

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2017, 03:58:52 PM »
I fully agree. A lack of comfort will affect your security, or concentration as Stig said. Once you're impaired your chances of a crash go up significantly. Better to go slower and diminish the windchill effect even if it makes your ride longer. With the change of seasons the dangers of just the road increase -more leaves everywhere, which are even more dangerous if they're wet, or if they cover an unseen road hazard. These changes also impact the cars around us too.

- Wolf
« Last Edit: December 12, 2017, 02:47:31 PM by ScooterWolf »

Mr. Paul

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2017, 04:58:50 PM »
To answer your question directly, when I am cold, less wind is better.
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GLV55

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2017, 10:24:12 AM »
Wolf and Mr. Paul, you both make good points about going slower, especially considering the increase of possible hazards with the colder conditions. Thanks for the feedback, folks. Slower it is!
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hypophthalmus

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2017, 07:43:52 PM »
I'd be interested in the definitive answer, but the math appears to be over my head.

Some of it has already been done:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Wind_chill.png

If the air temperature is 35 F, driving at 30mph would be the equivalent of standing still when it's 22 F out, and driving at 60mph would be equivalent of standing still when it's 17 F out.

The other relevant information is Newton's law of cooling, which states that  the "rate of heat loss of a body is directly proportional to the difference in the temperatures between the body and its surroundings provided the temperature difference is small and the nature of radiating surface remains same."

Piecing those together, I interpret it to mean it'll take the same amount of time to bring your body temperature down to 22 F at 30mph as it would to bring it down to 17 F at 60mph.... assuming that it stopped producing any heat I think.

But the 60mph trip would be cut short in half if that's the distance your determined to go. Assuming temperature drop is linear (probably not, but the math is too much for me to understand), going 60mph your body temperature would only drop to 57.8 F on the same trip that would drop your body temperature to 22 F going 30mph. Again, you're body isn't producing any heat in this scenario.

So obviously this should all be taken with a good helping of salt, but I think the increase in speed outweighs the increase in wind chill.

ole two wheels

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2017, 09:00:20 PM »
Leaving the body down below and moving up to the head, where the brain resides, or should. I thought that with age, wisdom increases, or should. So my question is this: How old do you gotta be to know it's too darn cold to be riding anything that doesn't have climate control? Anybody got a chart for that?  I mean, come on guys, how many of us don't have two or three cars/trucks, we could be riding in??? If you're out there riding in weather that makes you pull over and grab the muffler, then maybe your head is in the wrong place.
Mac 

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GLV55

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2017, 10:15:43 PM »
I'd be interested in the definitive answer, but the math appears to be over my head.

...But the 60mph trip would be cut short in half if that's the distance your determined to go. Assuming temperature drop is linear (probably not, but the math is too much for me to understand), going 60mph your body temperature would only drop to 57.8 F on the same trip that would drop your body temperature to 22 F going 30mph. Again, you're body isn't producing any heat in this scenario...

So obviously this should all be taken with a good helping of salt, but I think the increase in speed outweighs the increase in wind chill.
That's the kind of thing I was trying to work out in my head as I was riding along...too much science and math made my cold-numbed brain hurt.
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GLV55

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2017, 10:21:03 PM »
Leaving the body down below and moving up to the head, where the brain resides, or should. I thought that with age, wisdom increases, or should. So my question is this: How old do you gotta be to know it's too darn cold to be riding anything that doesn't have climate control? Anybody got a chart for that?  I mean, come on guys, how many of us don't have two or three cars/trucks, we could be riding in??? If you're out there riding in weather that makes you pull over and grab the muffler, then maybe your head is in the wrong place.
Perhaps with age, the wisdom might increase, but so does our desire to prove that we can still "take it" like we did when younger. In all honesty, I was only riding it around in the interest of keeping things lubed well on the scooter, since it had been sitting for a week while I was riding in my nice, warm car. I figured that it may be cold for a while, but at least it was sunny and dry, so it was a good opportunity to get the scooter out for some winter exercise. (Luckily, retirement has brought an end to the daily commute.) 
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Mr. Paul

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2017, 06:35:24 AM »
Leaving the body down below and moving up to the head, where the brain resides, or should. I thought that with age, wisdom increases, or should. So my question is this: How old do you gotta be to know it's too darn cold to be riding anything that doesn't have climate control? Anybody got a chart for that?  I mean, come on guys, how many of us don't have two or three cars/trucks, we could be riding in??? If you're out there riding in weather that makes you pull over and grab the muffler, then maybe your head is in the wrong place.


I agree with you in theory, but I am still young enough at heart to enjoy the challenge of overcoming adverse conditions. For me, its kind of a mini-adventure. Motorcycle riders are a different breed. Scooter riders seem to be differenter.  :)
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de dee

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2017, 03:16:26 PM »
 was out the other day near freezing Temp.   the only ones out were the ski-doo riders if there where some snow left,   1 piece suit good for 40 below double layer visor   no fog up ,.   helmets , if the road is clear and dry why not me on my scooter???

ole two wheels

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2017, 08:22:07 PM »
YOU THE MAN de dee.
Mac 

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ole two wheels

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2017, 08:29:03 PM »
A great man once said, "A man must know his limitations". It was either Dirty Harry or the good, the bad and the ugly cowboy. Boy oh boy, am I ever becoming aware of mine, but I'm gonna ride as long as I can. Can I get an Amen?
Mac 

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GLV55

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Re: Which one wins? Time or Temp?
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2017, 09:38:13 AM »
A great man once said, "A man must know his limitations". It was either Dirty Harry or the good, the bad and the ugly cowboy. Boy oh boy, am I ever becoming aware of mine, but I'm gonna ride as long as I can. Can I get an Amen?
Amen!!

It was Dirty Harry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0
2014 Lance PCH 150
2007 Kymco People 150 (totaled by a drunk, Oct. 2013)
Nampa, ID

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