Braking Technique and Skills

[ScooterWolf]

Great points guys. These are the kinds of things I've been hoping to hear, and learn. I have a few a questions. I apply both brakes equally. Generally I slow into a turn by letting up on the throttle, take an outside line to look as deep into the turn as possible, begin to counter-steer and add power to keep the angle of the bike on the line I want to take into the curve. If I need to apply brakes, say suddenly, I work to straighten the bike first (of course that's the idea, it all depends on how you react to an 'oh sh--!' situation, but that's why you practice panic stops) before applying the brakes (something I to practice on my new scoot).

Does letting off/avoiding the front brake at turns refer to road hazard and bad condition situations mentioned by 2wheelfun, or is it something you do in any turning situation? 

The use of the one finger brake hold at stops isn't to out race drivers around, or behind me. I've found it's just more efficient in getting my scooter moving from a still position. The bigger the car, truck or bus is in front of me the more of a head start I give them, allowing on coming traffic a chance to see me behind the vehicle i'm following. That way I won't be an unintended target for a left hand turner.

See and be seen is my constant riding strategy.

-Wolf

[2wheelfun]

You brake BEFORE going into a turn, not going into one. If a slight correction is needed when going into the turn only slight rear braking action is suggested as being safe. That means do not lock up the rear wheel in a turn. Also sticking close to the inside line on a blind curve can be fatal, ever notice a lot of people drive over the inside line when going around a blind corner? That does give you a better view going into the blind curve but it gives you less time to react to a car driving over the inside line. The middle or right side wheel track of a car is the best position going into a blind curve. That position gives you the best scenario to avoid a car driving over the inside line going into a blind curve..............inside line means the dividing line separating different directions of travel. Out side line is the line or edge of the road aka the shoulder of the road.........this is a great topic, it makes me think of anything I can do to improve my chances of avoiding a collision. A lot of the above applies especially here in CO where blind curves are abundant. Here blind curves can contain a lot of debris from falling rocks, dirt and sand falling from the mountain sides. That is a dangerous situation because your reaction time is 1 or 2 seconds at best before the situation computes in your brain.

[2wheelfun]

Another thing I do in HEAVY city traffic is to ride with 2 fingers on both brakes levers. I do it where the feeling is loose, not tense on my fingers/hands. It can save you a second in reaction time for an idiot driver. On my Kawi 250 that applies to the front brake lever, on the rear brake pedal the tip of my foot is resting on the pedal but not enough to trigger the brake light. In heavy traffic you need to be more aware/alert to your position in traffic and OTHERS around you, especially side traffic in front of you. Cars turning left, departing driveways, changing lanes and yes keeping an eye on the rear too. That includes cars to the rear in adjoining lanes. You should try the 2 finger brake lever position, you'll notice the difference in reaction time. With a rear brake pedal it works by not having to reposition your foot from the peg to the brake pedal to apply the downward pressure. Only downward pressure is needed in the reaction. Kinda like riding with your heel on the peg and the ball of your foot on the brake pedal.

[ScooterWolf]

Thanks for the terminology clarification 2wheels. I didn't mean the outside/dividing line as you described it, but setting my scooter up on the outer side of a curve before entering it in order to get a clear view. This is well before hitting the turn's apex where you are vulnerable to a car coming around a blind curve. If the on coming traffic won't allow for this (Kelly and Lincoln Drive in Philly are known for this), you stay in your middle part of your lane. This diagram does a better job of what I'm trying to describe.

http://www.xbhp.com/talkies/attachments/art-safe-riding/16722d1259790544-turning-motorcycle-mk7lfb.jpg

I generally cover my brake controls with my fingers, but the two finger idea will be one I'll be working on. Thanks!

This is one of the roads where I was commuting on, Lincoln Drive.



This is the drive I normally commute through. Kelly Drive

[Stig / Major Tom]

Doubt if any of these guys were going too slow.
Get it wrong and....


I like this guy.
HART ...slow speed corners....


Safe braking on a scooter...


Stig

[2wheelfun]

Gonna have to check those vids out Stig, can't do it right now checking out some porn.

[ScooterWolf]

Mmmm … Scooter porn. Twist and go. 

-Wolf

[ScooterWolf]

Great videos, Stig. The last one was very informative and clarified many of the things 2wheelfun was talking about. More things to learn and practice.

Thanks again,

-Wolf

[springdew]

I flicker my brake light while approaching a stop or slow, before the real braking starts. I flicker it while stationary as well. Picked that up at training as part of classroom discussion, not curriculum. I haven't been rear ended either, but I don't really know how helpful it is. Been riding 7 years.

Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk

[bluesin]

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/how-to-avoid-crashing-emergency-braking-riding-tips-brake-check-accidents?src=SOC&dom=fb

[ScooterWolf]

Good article Blue. Thanks for posting. Reading the comments is also useful.

Springdew, I agree about brake tapping. I use it when coming to a stop around a curve or at the bottom of a hill when there's a car following. It's a cell phone world and you never know how well the car behind you is paying attention. A few years ago while commuting to work I watched as a woman rear ended a truck in the lane next to mine. I'm pretty sure I saw her on a cell. Since then I try not to stop directly behind the vehicle in front of me, but off to the side if possible. This way I'm not in a position to get sandwiched between two cars if I'm ever rear ended.

-Wolf

[2wheelfun]

I've been experimenting with counter steering lately and it works. It's counter intuitive but science of physics proves it. I always thought leaning was the best steering method, it isn't. Never gave it much thought till recently. I just rode and let my instincts take over. Now that I'm older I want to be a safer better driver, adequate/qualified description works for me, not a super star or think I'm the greatest. I don't like that attitude. Check out this vid if you have time.........

[ScooterWolf]

Going to try and find some time to watch the rest of the video. Thanks for posting.

Not sure if its a youtube video, an article, or a discussion on a forum -- memories fuzzy on it, but it was about counter steering vs. leaning. Someone took a bike and welded the handlebars so it couldn't turn. The idea was to see how much a bike could turn just from leaning. Each person who tried it found it took about 400 meters to maneuver the bike in a half circle. What they found was that essentially leaning alone did not turn the bike, turing the wheel did, but more, the bike's wheel turned naturally in the opposite way, even if a lean was initiated. At slow speeds turning the handlbars works, but as the bike becomes more controlled by the gyroscopic motion of the wheels at higher speeds, counter-steering takes over.

These forum discussion may explain it better:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/beginners-corner/turning-lean-counter-steer-99827.html


-Wolf

[chaz35]

I like the HART guy vids too, watched all of them.  At stop light, HART says to use only rear brake, if get rear ended front brakes tend to cause scooter to flip, with rear brakes only, will tend to slide forward.  And yes, don't stop up close in the middle behind another vehicle "the crusher zone" lols.  Cheers

[ScooterWolf]

I'd say unless your front brake is really locked you're probably going to just move forward if rear-ended from behind, and not flip over your front wheel. The one time I was, was at a tollbooth. The guy waiting behind me must have thought I had moved out, and stepped on the gas. He probably wasn't going more than 5 mph, but being an SUV it was enough to throw me and my 300 lb. scooter forward and nearly out of the tollbooth area. I probably had my front brake engaged as I was using my left hand to pay the toll.

- Wolf