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Author Topic: Seize (of) the day  (Read 2087 times)

Triesandluth

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Seize (of) the day
« on: June 25, 2015, 04:28:09 PM »
So,  I noticed that my water pump was leaking out of the weep hole.  Happened to see a guy that owns a scooter shop and several s9's a and told him.  He said get that thing home now!  So I did,  but before making it,  my engine just stopped.  After letting it relax a bit and giving it a few very slow turns from the kick,  it started and got me home. 
I had a spare pump ready to go,  so I swapped them out.  The old one was unable to be turned by hand and made a slight grinding noise when it did.  Plus,  once disassembled,  the fan on it was nasty greasy or something. 
So,  was it a soft seize from getting it a bit hard during break in,  seized due to the water pump bearings and seal being close to locked up,  or will I finally be looking forward to a new crank and bearings? 
I'm really not in the mood to split the case...  I would like to at least get my r50x running well enough to ride first...


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zombie

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2015, 11:51:54 PM »
The mains will be fine.

I would pull the jug, and w/ 1000 grit sand the sides of the piston, and cylinder where it seized.

The piston sand up, and down, and the cylinder sand in a circular motion.
 If you don't this will lead to blowby from the rings. There is aluminium embedded in the cylinder at the siezure area, and the rings will float over that spot on every cycle.
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Triesandluth

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2015, 12:43:45 AM »
I'm not sure what to think of what happened.  I want to say that the water pump bearing may have been the culprit of the stall.  I was decelerating when it just stopped.  After changing pumps it started smooth,  idled quiet.  I've since put another almost fifty miles on it and it's running like a champ.  I guess I need to tear it down and inspect it anyways. 
I just hate dealing with the coolant. Lol. 

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zombie

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2015, 01:01:44 AM »
I hear ya! I have two "peeves". Coolant, and brake fluid.
I hate the feeling of them on my skin. It's worse w/ those rubber gloves.

Those fluids creep me out to the point of wanting to gag. Oil, and gas I can bath in... Go figure.

My guess is the same as yours tho. You had a soft seize from the piston getting too hot. Another tip is you can soak a rag in hydrocloric acid, and lay it in the bare cylinder in the area the aluminium grabbed. It will disolve the Micro alim. in the cross hatch, and not touch the steel.
Then all you have to do is scuff the piston to remove the galling.
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Triesandluth

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2015, 10:11:46 PM »
There's where we may disagree. I'm not certain that anything got hot. My temp light never came on, and I know it works from overheating the previous kit. I'm kinda thinking that the water pump was still working. It's just that the bearing seized, when the clutch disengaged it put a load on the crank and stopped the engine. The first hand crank I have the bike after it stopped was tough, but the ones after were less so. Again, I'm still going to inspect it.

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Triesandluth

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2015, 10:16:10 PM »
Unless it seized before reaching a temp that the sensor recognized due to the kit being new

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Stig / Major Tom

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2015, 10:44:02 PM »
Just went out and petted my aircooled LIKE200i.
Hope you get it sorted...
Stig
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Triesandluth

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2015, 12:52:34 AM »
Quote from: Stig on June 26, 2015, 10:44:02 PM
Just went out and petted my aircooled LIKE200i.
Hope you get it sorted...
Stig
Thanks! One day I'll get a big pretty Kymco. Until then....

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chaz35

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2015, 03:01:46 PM »
Muriatic acid will take the alum off the cylinder.  Nasty stuff, don't store it in your garage or near anything you care about, vapors will cause corrosion.

Yes, AC engines are too simple.  I really like my People 50 2T, just run it rich and no worries.  I always worry about my Super 9 LC having a cooling system failure.
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1st and 2nd usually have an unfair advantage.  3rd is usually the best, can learn the most from.  paraphrased from Don Quixote, over 400 years ago, still true today

zombie

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2015, 08:56:58 PM »
I'm in the process of building my "ultimate" bike. Out of every bike on the planet I choose a 1970 Triumph 650 but of course I am installing a big bore kit (750). Air cooled, pressure bypass oiling system, and NO electronic do-dads whatsoever. I am adding the HPI ignition but that is my choice.

My point is IMHO simple is best! The most fair comparison is to any of the carb'd, 4t scooters that we all run. If you need a complete machine/work shop to repair a bike... You have the wrong bike.
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Triesandluth

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2015, 10:11:24 PM »
I completely agree!

Tore it down, greased the bearing in the water pump since I'm not certain of its age, and inspected the cylinder. One very light mark, right between the exhaust and intake ports. Took 2000 grit to it, took my time in circular motions, and cleaned it up as well as I could with brake cleaner and two stroke oil. The piston had to visible flaws. Rings were the same. Put it all back together, ran to the other side of town and back with no problems. We'll see if I got it cleaned up enough.

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chaz35

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2015, 05:06:12 AM »
After seeing this thread, I changed my coolant again.  Coolant came out darker, this is the 1st flush in a week or so.  I put in 39.5 oz and got out 42 oz.  1st time I got out approx 26 oz, as I recall, so some was still in there.  I put back in 39.5 oz.  Anyway, appears quantity in coolant system is not super critical, I ran it a long time with too little coolant, and probably 10 plus hours with too much coolant.  I am feeling better about it now.  So, will probably overheat soon.  Cheers
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1st and 2nd usually have an unfair advantage.  3rd is usually the best, can learn the most from.  paraphrased from Don Quixote, over 400 years ago, still true today

zombie

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2015, 01:33:57 PM »
LOL... That sucks.

Knock on wood Chaz!
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Triesandluth

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2015, 06:23:31 PM »
Damn, measuring the coolant. I'm known to be meticulous, but you take the cake there!  Next time you drain, chaz, maybe give that water pump bearing a check. I'm not able to recall your mileage, but I'm sure that these things don't last forever, especially after starting to run higher rpms.

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chaz35

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Re: Seize (of) the day
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2015, 06:42:08 PM »
I have approx 7100k on it now.

I was thinking the very same, looking at the water pump housing and thinking I need to check it.  Will check the maintenance schedule, but scooter is 2003, so approx 12 years old.  Engine is running really nice, rode it last night, was going as fast as I want to go for sure, easy to make mistake when you can't see where you're going lols.

Measure helps to tell what's going on, easy to do.

CVT is acting up a little, clutch is grabbing some on starts, need to pull the cover and check if anything wrong.  I think I will try 7gr Dr Pulley's next, have 6.5gr in it now and it really likes to rev.  Cheers
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